Lindaland
  Global Unity
  Osama to The Rescue Again (Page 1)

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone!
This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 
next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Osama to The Rescue Again
Mirandee
unregistered
posted September 09, 2007 12:57 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is there a pattern or what? This guy comes out of the woodwork every time there is an election campaign in the U.S. and he has consitently put out messages that help the Republicans. He is definitely working to influence elections and always his influence helps the Repubican party more than the Democrats. We maybe need to ask ourselves why it is that he wants the Republicans to stay in charge of this country.


Bin Laden Tape Appears On Islamists Sites
Analysts Believe Video Is Authentic, Recorded Recently

POSTED: 5:40 pm EDT September 6, 2007
UPDATED: 11:25 am EDT September 8, 2007

WASHINGTON -- The new videotaped message from terrorist leader Osama bin Laden made its way to militant Islamist Web sites on Saturday, one day after it was released by a U.S.-based terrorist monitoring organization.

Text appearing on the site alongside the bin Laden video explained that it had been purposely decided to first release the video to television channels before posting it to Web sites, the traditional means al-Qaida uses to disperse its messages.

"As a requested strategy the video has been sent to TV channels before posting it to the net. And it is not true that some Web sites claimed that they have received it in another way," it added, apparently referring to the Washington-based SITE Institute, which monitors terrorist messages and provided the tape to The Associated Press on Friday.

Experts Say Tape Authentic

Counterterrorism experts and intelligence officials are saying the video appears to be authentic and was recorded recently.

It mentions the Aug. 6 anniversary of the World War II bombing of Hiroshima and references British Prime Minister Gordon Brown, who took office June 27.

In the videotape, bin Laden urges Americans to embrace Islam, telling them to convert if they want the war in Iraq to end.

Bin Laden also suggests another way to ending the war. He says "One is from our side, and it is to escalate the fighting and killing against you."

In the speech, bin Laden references the attacks on New York and Washington several times, almost gloating about policy changes by the U.S. government in response.

"Nineteen young men were able - by the grace of Allah, the Most High - to change the direction of its compass," bin Laden says of the nation.

"Since the 11th, many of America's policies have come under the influence of the Mujahedeen," bin Laden says. "And as a result, the people discovered the truth about it; its reputation worsened, its prestige was broken globally and it was bled dry economically."

"Mujahedeen" is a term for Muslims fighting in a war or involved in any other struggle.

Bin Laden mocks the democratic system of government in the United States, calling the nation "unjust," the transcript shows. At one point, he jeers President Bush's alliance with Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki; at another he singles out Vice President Dick Cheney, former Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld and former Pentagon adviser Richard Perle as neoconservatives.

A government official said bin Laden makes no overt threats against the U.S. in the nearly 30-minute tape.

The video comes just days before the sixth anniversary of the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks.

Bush Responds

President George W. Bush said bin Laden's first video appearance in three years is a reminder of "the dangerous world in which we live."

Speaking in Australia, Bush said it's important to "show resolve and determination to protect ourselves" and deny al-Qaida "safe havens."

And he seized the moment to again link Iraq to the fight against terrorism, saying the fact that bin Laden mentioned Iraq in the video suggests it's al-Qaida's objective to drive out the U.S.

Bush is in Sydney for the annual summit of Pacific Rim nations.

Taking An Early Look

Officials in Washington were eager to take an advance look at the terror mastermind.

The United States intercepted the message before it was released to Islamic Web sites that al-Qaida most often uses to post its messages, a U.S. counterterrorism official said. Intelligence experts had spent hours studying the video before it and its transcripts were leaked, the official said.

Terrorism analysts have been poring over the video looking for clues about bin Laden's health. There were unconfirmed reports earlier this year that bin Laden had died of kidney disease, the official said.

In the video, bin Laden features an entirely dark beard, whereas previous images showed his beard streaked with gray.

Rita Katz, the head of SITE Institute, said the terror leader's beard appeared to have been dyed. Beard dying is a popular practice among Arab leaders, she said.

But it wasn't just bin Laden's appearance that was drawing analysts' attention. They also paid close attention to the technical aspects of the video, during which bin Laden's image only moves for a total of about three minutes in two segments. His image remains frozen the rest of the length of the tape while his remarks continue.

A former senior U.S. intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity, said it might have resulted from a technical glitch while al-Qaida passed the video through a variety of computer sites to mask its cyber trail.

Candidates Address Video

Republican presidential candidate Fred Thompson said on Friday that terrorist mastermind Osama bin Laden is "more symbolism than anything else" and instead warned of potential greater al-Qaida threats here at home.

"Bin Laden being in the mountains of Pakistan or Afghanistan is not as important as there are probably al-Qaida operatives inside the United States of America," Thompson said.

The former Tennessee senator and actor argued that "bin Laden is more symbolism than anything else. I think it demonstrates to people once again that we're in a global war."

Later in the day, and after Democrats had been critical of his earlier remarks, Thompson took a much tougher stance. "Apparently Osama bin Laden has crawled out of his cave long enough to send another video and he is getting a lot of attention," he said at a rally in Mason City. "He ought to be caught and killed."

Thompson maintained, however, that killing bin Laden would not end the terrorist threat.

The release of the bin Laden video drew a strong response from two of Thompson's rivals, Arizona Sen. John McCain and former New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani.

"Osama bin Laden and his henchmen must be hunted down - and as president, I will," McCain said in a statement. "My presidency will be al-Qaida's worst nightmare."

Campaigning in Florida, Giuliani said it's "a very, very important objective to capture him and take him out."

Among the Democratic presidential candidates, former Sen. John Edwards said, "Fred Thompson should know better. Responsible candidates for president talk about real solutions that will make America safer from terrorism. They don't ignore the fact that George Bush's policies have only made the threat of terrorism worse."

IP: Logged

Mirandee
unregistered
posted September 09, 2007 01:16 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Forgive me for talking to myself here. LOL

I think there are two possibilites here.

1. Either Osama bin Laden is working for Bush and in cohoots with him or perhaps he is a double agent for the CIA. May be why he has not been found and arrested and tried quite as fast as Hussein was found, arrested and tried. In fact, he hasn't been found at all even though he is video star during every election campaign in the U.S. What's it been? 6 years!!! Are our intelligence people that stupid or is bin Laden just that smart?

2. Bush and Osama bin Laden are more alike than they know.

Maybe both scenarios are true.

It's possible that bin Laden wants the Republicans in office to keep the wars in the Middle East going. He knows the Dems want to eventually pull out of Iraq and the sooner the better. Pulling out of Afghanistan would also be next on their agenda. They would also work at better relations with Iran. He knows right now the American people also want to end the war in Iraq the sooner the better. We want peace.

He is attempting with the use of fear and insulting us by telling us to convert to his religion to change our minds about the war. He is attempting to influence our thinking and our votes in the 2008 election.

Osama is working to keep the wars in the Middle East going to bring on his twisted Islamic notion of a Jihad.

Bush is working to keep the wars going in the Middle East to bring about his twisted Christian notions of Armageddon.

They both use the tool of whipping up fear in their peoples. They both control by the use of fear.

Neither care how many innocent people are killed in the wake of their agendas.

They are more alike than they either know or are willing to admit.

The only way that Osama bin Laden differs from Bush is that he is much smarter. In a battle of wits Bush is pretty much unarmed. But Bush has a bigger army and has in his terms in office amassed much more power than bin Laden has.

Between the two of them no matter which one has the upper hand they are alike and as long as either of them are in control we are in danger of both of them blowing up this planet and us along with it. Their reigns of terror on this planet must be stopped and brought to an end.

Just my thoughts on all of this.

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 09, 2007 01:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Is there a pattern or what? This guy comes out of the woodwork every time there is an election campaign in the U.S. and he has consitently put out messages that help the Republicans. He is definitely working to influence elections and always his influence helps the Repubican party more than the Democrats. We maybe need to ask ourselve why that is that he wants the Republicans to stay in charge of this country.

I agree. His messages are suspect. I'm not certain that it would be an election strategy this time, as Bush put everyone off until September to hear back from General Petraeus on Iraq. If Petraeus doesn't have quite the report Bush wants, then at least Bush will have the fall back position of a new Bin Laden video.

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 09, 2007 06:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Tim Osmond, I mean Osama bin Laden, was a CIA asset from the beginning; I see no reason to think he's any different now.

Terrorism is just the use of fear to influence politics. You can employ it from a cave or from a nation's capitol.

I love how he dyed his beard for this one, though.

IP: Logged

jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 10, 2007 12:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hmmm, it's hard to tell the difference between the goals of demoscats and terrorists like bin Laden.

In both cases, they want the United States to surrender to terrorists and terrorism NOW.

Of course I recognized early on that there is linkage between the terrorists and leftist groups..both here and abroad. Natural allies whose main enemy is the United States.

Recent statements from demoscat congressional members and now from bin Laden tend to prove just how close that linkage is as they sing the same tunes...the terrorist theme songs.

Surrender Now
The War is Lost
Imperialistic Blues
Bush Lied, People Died

But none of these is going to make it to the top 40 on the hit parade. In fact, they only appear on the terrorist top 40...and of course they're popular with leftist fringe radicals...the base of the demoscat party.

IP: Logged

naiad
unregistered
posted September 10, 2007 02:47 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 10, 2007 06:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Hmmm, it's hard to tell the difference between the goals of demoscats[sic] and terrorists like bin Laden.

I think that's the message, yes.

They could hardly make it more obvious if they wrote it on a mallet and smacked us in the face with it. Stay the course of eternal war and erosion of civil rights, or else. Who is really employing 'terror' here?


IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 10, 2007 06:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
An evil exists that threatens every man, woman, and child in this great nation. We must take steps to ensure the domestic security and protect our homeland.

- Adolf Hitler, as he announced the creation of the Gestapo to the German people.

Coincidentally, wasn't it Hitler who popularized blaming leftists for a nation's problems?

IP: Logged

jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 12, 2007 03:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hitler was a socialist...leftist.."National Socialism".

All you have to do to have peace at any time Johnny is surrender to any enemy who confronts you...oh, and in the case of radical Islamic fanatics, convert to Islam.

Most Americans are not in a surrendering mood. Leftists never saw an enemy they wouldn't surrender to...if that enemy opposed the United States.

The numbers don't lie Johnny. There have been NO further attacks on the US since 9/11..not one.

Of course the leftists among us have attempted to portray Bush as Hitler...for merely doing his job and upholding his oath of office.

Leftists...demoscats mostly have attempted to block Bush at every turn from implementing common sense measures to identify, find, thwart, capture and or kill terrorists BEFORE they can carry out their plans to attack here in the United States again. They've even gone so far as to attempt to prohibit the interception of telephone calls between terrorists on foreign soil and their terrorist comrades in the United States.

Democat leftists have also attempted to give American citizenship civil rights to terrorists captured fighting against US military forces.

No nation on earth has ever tried captured enemy soldiers in civilian courts or given them the same rights as citizens of their own nations. These leftists are simply brain dead morons

These are some of the most contemptible people in America...both the leftist demoscat morons and their murderoust terrorist friends.

Everything bin Laden said could have been written by the leftist demoscats in the Congress of the United States. Conversely, most of what these leftist demoscats are saying and have said could have easily have been written by bin Laden. It's getting more and more difficult to tell them apart.

IP: Logged

SattvicMoon
unregistered
posted September 12, 2007 03:33 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
vote is the name of the game!

------------------
SattvicMoonz Home Page and Blog

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 12, 2007 03:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wow! Lots of inaccuracy in that post Jwhop.

We've already been over that Hitler couldn't in any reasonable way be deemed to be comparable to anyone on the left.

We've also established that the threat of terrorism is as large as it has ever been, and has not been improved by having this war.

Having Petraeus speak and a new Bin Laden tape at the Sept 11 anniversary ...I don't see how anyone could not see the timing with suspicion.

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 12, 2007 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Hitler was a socialist...leftist.."National Socialism".

Yes, but nationalism is generally seen as a more right-wing sort of ideology. Hitler blamed Communists for Germany's problems (and the burning of the Reichstag, hint hint); that's what I was referring to.

quote:
All you have to do to have peace at any time Johnny is surrender to any enemy who confronts you...oh, and in the case of radical Islamic fanatics, convert to Islam.

And isn't that a perfect set-up for the Administration? Bin-Laden and his supposed fanatic terrorist cells are inherently self-isolating! 'Convert to our way of thinking or die;' he even isolates himself from other Muslims with this stance!

The perfect enemy for an eternal war on 'terror'. Pretty damn convenient.

quote:
Most Americans are not in a surrendering mood.

Well, apparently the Iraqis aren't, either. We did invade them, however, and on false pretenses, at that. Ousting Saddam was probably a good thing, but, um, why are we still there? And now we're building 4 giant military bases? If you read into some of the neo-con agendas, it's fairly evident what's happening, and it is most certainly NOT 'spreading freedom to the poor Iraqis.'

quote:
Leftists never saw an enemy they wouldn't surrender to...if that enemy opposed the United States.

Oh please.

quote:
The numbers don't lie Johnny. There have been NO further attacks on the US since 9/11..not one.

But how many threats have there been! Yellow alert! Orange Alert! Oooh! And, of course, the vast majority of 'suspected terrorists' are released without charge... after they've made it on national TV and newspaper headlines to scare us with their Arab features. "See how safe you are under the Patriot Act? Look at all these evildoers we're stopping!"

You're not dumb, Jwhop; tell me you see through this ridiculous charade!

Oh, and the anthrax attacks. That's one for you. So there.

quote:
Of course the leftists among us have attempted to portray Bush as Hitler...for merely doing his job and upholding his oath of office.

His oath to protect the Constitution? Ha, no, I think the comparison is apt, historically speaking. Hitler may have been less of a puppet, however.

"Stop throwing the Constitution in my face; it's just a godd@mn piece of paper!"

-George W. Bush

quote:
...

These are some of the most contemptible people in America...both the leftist demoscat morons and their murderoust terrorist friends.


You give the impression of a very black-and-white world, Jwhop.

quote:
Everything bin Laden said could have been written by the leftist demoscats in the Congress of the United States. Conversely, most of what these leftist demoscats are saying and have said could have easily have been written by bin Laden. It's getting more and more difficult to tell them apart.

And you don't find this the least bit suspicious, huh? He comes out with a video on the very anniversary of 9/11, just in time for the new surge to attack Iran, just as the potential candidates for the 2008 election are gearing up, just in time for Bush to include the it in his 9/11 speech, and Osama, a man that CIA analysts have determined speaks only when it is strategically beneficial, goes on a long-winded rant in which he echoes many of the positions of the left-wing politicians in the US?

And you don't find this odd at all. Too funny. But then, you don't have any suspicions about 9/11, either. If you have a secret source from which you get all the real facts, I'd love to subscribe!

IP: Logged

naiad
unregistered
posted September 12, 2007 05:53 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Democat leftists have also attempted to give American citizenship civil rights to terrorists captured fighting against US military forces.

funny you mention that (however jumbled), considering that within hours of the 9.11 attacks, when American airspace was virtually shut down, that the only people flying in America were foreign muslims, relatives of Osama, who were given FBI escort from this country, without even being interrogated or interviewed before leaving....

but now we detain foreigners, indefinitiely and without cause, based upon facial hair, skin color, and suspicion of particular religious association.

lol.

IP: Logged

goatgirl
unregistered
posted September 12, 2007 10:32 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

------------------
The good life, as I conceive it, is a happy life. I do not mean that if you are good you will be happy - I mean that if you are happy you will be good. ~ Bertrand Russell

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 12, 2007 11:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

This is interesting, to say the least...
http://youtube.com/watch?v=inyCkCvqRO0

"A Buried 60-Minutes Interview/Indictment"

7 minutes.

IP: Logged

jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 13, 2007 12:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You acoustic, have...along with other leftists for the last 50 years attempted to run away from the fact Hitler was one of you...a socialist, as he said on numerous occassions.

Today, Congressional socialists are attempting to surrender to terrorists and terrorism around the world. Not going to happen though. Let the screeching, whining and shrieking begin.

Oh, wait up, it's already began.

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 13, 2007 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How does one even surrender to a terrorist? Give in to their demands? Like, say, giving up our civil liberties to protect us from terrorists who "hate our freedoms?"

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 13, 2007 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop,

Your string of unplausible correlations is really getting overwhelming.

IP: Logged

Mirandee
unregistered
posted September 14, 2007 02:37 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
They could hardly make it more obvious if they wrote it on a mallet and smacked us in the face with it. Stay the course of eternal war and erosion of civil rights, or else. Who is really employing 'terror' here?...Johnny

Well said, Johnny and very true.

The "Wag the Dog" poster is very fitting, naiad

Face it, terrorism has served Bush and his cronies at Halliburton very well. Bush and Cheney have amassed more power for the Executive Branch of government than any president and vice president in the history of this country by using the fear of terrorism. They have also done more to erode the Constitution than any other prez and vp in history by the fear of terrorism. Not to mention the fact that they have both grown very wealthy from the war in Iraq and the war on terroism along with Halliburton.

Terrorism has served G W Bush and Cheney very, very well. Osama bin Laden and his videos have also served Bush and Cheney well in helping them keep the fear alive in the American public.

Wonder what bin Ladens cut is in the billions of dollars that the American tax payers will have to pay off in the war on terrorism for his coming out every every election to remind Americans he is out to get all of us.

IP: Logged

jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 14, 2007 12:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I suppose you would have a point Johnny...if you had a point but since you have no point, there's no point in you bringing up loss of civil rights...which you cannot document as having occurred.

Lots of leftist smoke blowing...out of the wrong orifice of course and as usual...but no fire.

The fact is Osama bin Laden talks like a demoscat and demoscats are mouthing the same talking points...called terrorist propaganda..as Osama bin Laden.

It's getting more difficult to determine where demoscat propaganda ends and terrorist propaganda begins.

Both are telling Americans to surrender now, get out of Iraq and let the terrorists take over and establish a terrorist safe haven...as opposed to shooting the ass off every terrorist in Iraq and help the Iraqi people establish the system of government they risked their lives to vote for.

I can't think of anything more contemptible than for leftists...in and out of government to screech, whine and shriek for American defeat and withdrawal of military forces where our military forces are kicking ass against the very group of terrorist thugs who killed about 3000 citizens on 9/11/01.

But that's leftists for you. Traitors at the core of their being.

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 14, 2007 09:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Denial is the most predictable of human responses." -the Architect in the Matrix

I don't know how you can say that the passage of the Patriot act doesn't infringe upon civil liberties. I read a story the other day about how authorities were using provisions of it against a topless bar! But I suppose you can justify that, too. Anti-terrorist provisions used against American citizens who have nothing to do with terrorism.

It's not about giving the authorities more power to control terrorism; it's about giving them more power to control US.
http://www.reviewjournal.com/lvrj_home/2003/Nov-05-Wed-2003/opinion/22518708.html

IP: Logged

Johnny
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: Egypt
Registered: Apr 2010

posted September 16, 2007 12:45 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Johnny     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Both are telling Americans to surrender now, get out of Iraq and let the terrorists take over and establish a terrorist safe haven...as opposed to shooting the ass off every terrorist in Iraq and help the Iraqi people establish the system of government they risked their lives to vote for.

Some statistics:

quote:
The Iraq War
Whether or not you support the U.S. invasion of Iraq, one thing is certain: The Iraqi people are feeling both positive and negative effects of the American invasion. Here are some interesting statistics:

* As of May 2007, more than 2 million Iraqis have been displaced inside Iraq by the war.1

* Approximately 1.5 million Iraqi refugees are currently living in Syria and Jordan.1

* Since 2003, 40 percent of professionals have left Iraq.1

* Before the invasion, there were approximately 34,000 physicians in Iraq. As of 2005, that number has dropped to 12,000.1

* A March, 2007 poll found that 69% of Iraqis think that the presence of US forces in Iraq is making security in Iraq worse and almost half of Iraqis surveyed have a close personal friend or immediate family member who has been physically harmed by the violence in Iraq.2

* Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki has said, "We say in full confidence that we are able, God willing, to take the responsibility completely in running the security file if the international forces withdraw at any time they want."3

* A United Nations-issued report from 2006 states that civilian casualties in Iraq are being significantly under-reported. Informed estimates show that more than 600,000 Iraqi civilians have been killed since the start of the war.4

* A poll taken in 2005 by the British Ministry of Defense shows 82 percent of Iraqis "strongly opposed to presence of coalition troops." According to the same poll, less than 1 percent of Iraqis believe the coalition forces are responsible for any improvement in security.5


Emphasis mine.
http://politics.morefocus.com/info/

IP: Logged

naiad
unregistered
posted September 16, 2007 02:31 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
where was it, here somewhere maybe, that i read that the time and money, adjusted for inflation, that the U.S. has spent on this "war on terror" well exceeds that of WWII.

and for what? genocide, oil, imperialism, dismantling the United States Constitution...some kind of mystical "shekinah" ("shock 'n awe")...?

all of the above?

all because of the tragedy of 9.11, which is related to Iraq how?

so scary, so weird, so sad...it all seems so unreal.

IP: Logged

Mirandee
unregistered
posted September 16, 2007 10:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The problem with the theory of "shooting the a$$ off of every terrorist in Iraq" is that every time the U.S. shoots the a$$ off of one terrorist in Iraq they create many, many more terrorists to take his place.

We know that is how it works because look at how many American terrorists were created after 9/11.

An eye for an eye never works. It just creates an endless cycle of death and violence. It creates an endless cycle of conflict not only between nations of the world but with other people as well in relationships.

What do you suppose would have happened if America had done the true Christian thing after 9/11 and instead of repaying violence with violence used compassion and love on those behind those horrible acts?

With compassion and love I mean as a nation looking at ourselves and trying to find out where our government has been at fault for making others hate us so much that they would do what they did on 9/11. Then working to change our methods of dealing with countries in the Middle East and employ more humane and just systems in those methods and our treatment of the Arabic peoples. If our nation and government did this instead of supporting Israel in it's inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people by building a wall around them like they were cattle and not allowing them freedom to come and go there would in time be a whole less terrorists in the world. The government should start with more humane and just policies in the Middle East, especially and foremost in Palestine. The way Israel treats the Palestinian people is how ranchers deal with cattle - not how anyone should treat other human beings. That America condones that and supports Israel in that kind of inhumane treatment is what caused the events of 9/11. That they have now taken over a Middle Eastern country with their own violence and control has created more and more people who hate us and want to kill us.

Looking inwardly at themselves and their policies in the Middle East is where the U.S. government should start and if they did that it would truly be "Shock and Awe" not only for the people of the Middle East but for the whole world.

The endless violence will continue until the planet is eventually blown apart in a nuclear war due to hate and retaliation until the U.S. and Israel change their inhumane and unjust policies in the Middle East. It only takes one person to end an argument. It only takes one nation with the power in the world that U.S. has to stop the endless cycle of violence and spread compassion and love in the world instead of endless hate and revenge.

That would truly be "shock and awe." It's not true Islam that creates terrorists. It's not true Christianity that retaliates with an eye for an eye mentality. It's people who hate that do that.

IP: Logged

naiad
unregistered
posted September 16, 2007 11:18 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Pharisee’s Fire Sermon: Terror, Perpetual War, and the Holy Empire

Not having had a chance to listen to the inaugural speech (1), I read it in transcript and was struck like everyone else by those ominous, symmetrical allusions to fire in it:

“After the shipwreck of communism came years of relative quiet, years of repose, years of sabbatical -- and then there came a day of fire.”

“By our efforts, we have lit a fire as well -- a fire in the minds of men.”

“It warms those who feel its power, it burns those who fight its progress, and one day this untamed fire of freedom will reach the darkest corners of our world.”

In Bush’s religio-political theater, fire isn’t a damp metaphoric squib but a powerful symbol, the leitmotif of the soaring neo-conservative soundtrack -- fire consuming the twin towers, fire as inspiration, and then fire as “freedom” crackling over the globe, warming its friends and incinerating its enemies.

This isn’t vague bombast. The meanings are precise and meant to resonate with deep-rooted themes in American culture.

In the Gospel, cloven flames descend at Pentecost and the disciples burst out in unknown languages. Pentecostal preachers still call this “speaking in tongues.” (2) This is fire “lit in the minds of men,” inspirational. But when fire descends on Sodom and Gomorrah (3), it burns the sinful cities to cinders. Fire warms and burns, inspires and destroys and its double potency is what makes it the object of man’s first fear and wonder, his first religion. From the Egyptian sun gods Ra and Amon (4) to the Vedic fire-god Agni (5) or the Greek Hephaestos (6), fire is the divine source of warmth and life.

Terror
But it’s the terrible destructive power of fire more than its fecundity that inspires religion. The “untamed fire” to which Bush refers pulses with the force of divinity. The Bush team, high priests of the American state, are also magi conjuring with signs and wonders in the sky. They experiment with tactical nuclear weapons; they call down firebombs that melt flesh in excruciating envelopes of flame; they write their will in fireworks in the skies that terrify whole populations. The 21,500-pound Massive Ordnance Air Burst (MOAB) (7) is the largest conventional bomb in history and was built as much to induce paralyzing fear as to destroy. Napalm-like MK-77 firebombs (8) have been used against Iraqi forces and a Pentagon official who confirmed the use defended it as legal and necessary. The MK-77 is filled with a mix of incendiary chemicals different from napalm but causes the same sheet of fire that penetrates dug-in infantry positions. “The generals love napalm,” (9) a soldier was quoted as saying. “It has a big psychological effect.” Recent accounts from Fallujah describe civilians incinerated by a napalm-like cocktail of poisonous gases. Two major military theorists of the administration -- Albert Wohlstetter (10) Andrew Marshall (11) -- make protracted nuclear war the centerpiece of their strategic thinking. For Charles Krauthammer(12), a prominent Bush publicist, “power is its own reward.” and classicist Donald Kagan (13), father of the prolific neo-conservative ideologue Robert Kagan, adds, “People worried a lot about how the Arab street is going to react. Well, I see that the Arab street has gotten very, very quiet since we started blowing things up.”

To the Bush team absolute power confers virtue and perfect virtue wears fiery terror on its sleeve nonchalantly.

Take Bush’s phrase, day of fire, which seems at first a curious way to describe the attack on the twin towers which literally produced as much smoke as fire. It’s a profoundly evocative phrase and calls to mind, intentionally I am sure, some well-known lines:

Dies irć, dies illa,
Solvet sćclum in favilla:
Teste David *** Sibyllâ

The day of wrath, that day
which will reduce the world to ashes,
as foretold by David and the Sybil

Dating back to the 14th century, the Dies Irae (14) is a Latin hymn used in Roman masses for the dead, of which Verdi’s and Mozart’s are famous examples and the Day of Wrath it talks about is Judgment Day when the final reckoning of the soul is made. As the hymn states, dies irae is prophesied both by the Hebraic and pagan traditions of the west, by the Jewish King David as well as by the Hellenic Sybil, prophetess of Cuma and the most popular oracle consulted by the Romans.

Bush’s Day of Fire is a subliminal invocation of this prophetic western tradition. We’re invited to reprise the attack on New York as an inaugural of fire, a commencement of apocalyptic days, a quickening of history into the end times of judgment.

In the sermons of Jonathan Edwards (15), Cotton Mather (16) and the other great Puritan preachers of America, judgment day is a paroxysm of fire and despair. In 1741 in the most famous of hell and brimstone sermons, “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God,” (17) Edwards wrote,

The God that holds you over the pit of hell, much as one holds a spider, or some loathsome insect over the fire, abhors you,” “he is of purer eyes than to bear to have you in his sight.

Heaping up rhetorical horrors, Edwards describes a spectacular torture intended to impress the angelic realm with the power of the almighty in an early form of shock and awe:

You shall be tormented in the presence of the holy angels, and in the presence of the Lamb; and when you shall be in this state of suffering, the glorious inhabitants of heaven shall go forth and look on the awful spectacle...

Edwards suggests that this divine horror show is about many things, from the just punishment of man for the vileness of his nature to the furnishing of a salutary example to sinners and saints, but it’s pretty clear from his text that what he revels in most is the absolute differential in power between his spiteful deity and the pitiful creatures who are “dry stubble”, “chaff”, “grasshoppers”, “spiders”, and “worms” in comparison. What inspires his awe is man’s total subjection to overwhelming power and the “exquisite horrible misery” it inflicts.

That first adjective tells us that there’s something aesthetic at work here that goes beyond ideas of mere justice.

“He will have no regard to your welfare, nor be at all careful lest you should suffer too much in any other sense, than only that you shall not suffer beyond what strict justice requires. Nothing shall be withheld, because it is so hard for you to bear.”

One part of this aesthetic of superfluous suffering is straightforward. Fire overawes us not only for its power to do evil and good but also for its supernal beauty. After all, the indwelling fire of God, the Holy Spirit, is feminine not only in Christianity but in the mystical texts of Judaism where she is the Shekinah (18), the divine glory, which guides the Israelites as a pillar of fire at night and a cloud by day and hovers over the Ark of the sacred covenant between Israel and God. The similarity of Shekinah to Shock and Awe, I suppose, is simply one of those peculiar un-meanings which sometimes points us where meaning refuses to take us.

But fire as the visual correlative of absolute power has another aesthetic, one a lot more disturbing, in which it's precisely the abjection of the victim that's pleasurable and invites a gloating triumph:

He will crush you under his feet without mercy; he will crush out your blood, and make it fly -- no place shall be thought fit for you, but under his feet to be trodden down as the mire of the streets.

There’s a sadistic pleasure in inflicting pain, a gratuitous, wanton blood lust running through this pornographic picture of suffering that lends an ecstatic tone, a rapture, if you will, to the whole piece. It’s echoed in Bush’s words and actions:

As president, Bush pumped his fist in the air and muttered, “feels good,” just minutes before publicly announcing the start of the war on Iraq. As a governor, he snickered while mimicking a plea for mercy from a repentant multiple killer, Carla Faye Tucker, who had been sentenced to death. (19) As a child, he led his friends in shooting frogs with BB guns and would even “put firecrackers in the frogs and throw them and blow them up,” recalled Terry Throckmorton, a close friend of Bush. And despite denying it for a year, FBI memos released in December from a Freedom Of Information Act Request by the ACLU indicate that he signed executive orders directly authorizing the torture of prisoners. (20)

How can power be conceived as absolute, virtuous, beautiful, and supernal and yet at the same time also unnaturally cruel? The answer lies in the philosophical dualism driving Bush’s political thinking and underlying his use of fire imagery.

Perpetual War
In the dominant forms of the Judeo-Christian tradition, Plato’s spirit-matter dualism expresses itself not only in the separation of God from nature, but also of man from nature and man from his own self. For dualistic man, nature - his own as well as the lavish universe outside him - exists only for the sake of his “inner” and “spiritual” self. Nature is a “fallen” image of the perfect world of the spirit. Despite this, however, in traditional Christianity, as formulated by Augustine and Aquinas, there's no evil principle inherent in nature itself. (21) Evil is simply a lesser form of the good, an absence of good. Evil is part of a continuum with good, not radically separated from it.

Bush’s imagery of fire develops this traditional Christian dualism into something quite different, something closer to the religion of ancient Persia, Zoroastrianism, where fire has a central role and where good and evil are localized and embodied. The good follow a solar deity and have fire as their symbol while the evil follow a serpent god; the battle between the two divides all creation. In this pre-Christian monotheism, the world is torn by perpetual war, evil is embodied in a devil, man has free will, and there is a physical resurrection, a day of judgment, and a fiery hell. Zoroastrian beliefs influenced the Old Testament and Talmud (22) when the exiled Israelites came under the rule of the Babylonians and the Persians, and many think that the name of the Jewish sect that professed the new beliefs, Pharisee, is a transcription of Pharsi or Persian. (23) Apocalyptic Christianity, with its emphasis on the Old Testament, converts this deeply ethical Indo-Aryan dualism that was meant to be a tool of spiritual self-mastery into something more fatalistic and literal than the original teachings. The apocalyptic version grafts the dualistic moral struggle onto history itself and searches for its resolution in the drama of states and nations. It’s from here that Bush’s combative, militarized political vision springs and it’s also from here that the fiery cruelty of his policies stems. He knows who the evil are and he’s certain he’s going to get them.

Two of these mutant dualistic beliefs have powerfully manifested in Bush’s policies:

Eternal strife as the condition of existence

With the War on Terror replacing the Cold War and before it the World War against Fascism, the US enters its 7th decade of post-war militarism. In the corporate body of mainstream American politics, there's no serious alternative to the militaristic vision of America.
“The great objective of ending tyranny is the concentrated work of generations,” runs the inaugural speech echoing Defense Secretary Rumsfeld, who has declared the war on terror a “long, hard, slog.” (24)

“This is a long, long war,” said Bush during the second presidential debate. (25)

Super-hawk James Woolsey has called the new war “the long war of the 21st century” and “World War Four” and has argued that it “will last for decades. For the younger people…it will be to your generation what the Cold War was to mine. It will probably last the rest of your life.” (26)

Today no other nation can match the United States in overall military spending. Its military budget of over $400 billion is more than the combined defense expenditures of every other country in the world. (27) Since no external enemy could possibly pose a threat justifying this level of militarization, it becomes reasonable to suggest that what drives it is not security but aggression.

Evil as what defines the self

In neo-conservative dogma, perpetual war is inseparable from the pure evil of the enemy.
Just after 9/11 Bush called terrorists “evil-doers” and declared, “Every nation and every region now has a decision to make. Either you are with us, or you are with the terrorists.” (28)

On January 29, 2002 he made the much-publicized speech in which he lumped Iraq, North Korea and Iran into an “axis of evil.” (29)

On September 23, 2003 he affirmed the “clearest of the divides … between those who seek order and those who spread chaos…. Between these alternatives there is no neutral ground.” (30)

It’s because Bush’s theo-political vision can’t articulate America in positive terms that it has to articulate it in negative ones, defining it against what it’s not and because his vision is so radically dual, those definitions have be “pure”, uncontaminated by radiation from the other.

Holy Empire
But where does he get this purist vision of the American state? The inaugural has a profoundly disturbing answer wrapped in what seems at first like the usual pabulum:

“Self-government relies, in the end, on the governing of the self. That edifice of character is built in families, supported by communities with standards, and sustained in our national life by the truths of Sinai, the Sermon on the Mount, the words of the Koran and the varied faiths of our people.”

Starting with uncontroversial assertions about character and communities, Bush goes on to found the nation's life directly on religion, starting with the Old Testament followed by the New Testament and then the Koran. Leave aside the fact that agnostics, atheists, Buddhists, Wiccans, Hindus, deists, pagans, and those of any number of other persuasions are uncomfortable to see themselves shunted aside in a specious moral hierarchy by state-sanctioned monotheism, what about the founding fathers who were themselves conspicuously rationalistic? Until now, we’d thought that the founding law of this country was the constitution, but it turns out that those were only “the laws of the land.” America, the state, gets its founding constitution in a fiery blaze directly from Mount Sinai. Not only does Bush give the nod to monotheism as the predominant religion of the new theocratic state, the Mosaic Law is at the head.

That’s the clue to the purism of the newly baptized American state, which relentlessly hunts out the non-self to destroy it. The Mosaic fire is God’s own Law, double-edged like a sword, purifying the good and incinerating the evil. When holy Law itself founds the nation, why bother with the constitution, the uniform code of justice, or international law?

The Bush vision of freedom and democracy conflates them with the American state conceived virginally, unmixed with ambiguity, and intolerant of shades of gray. American freedom warms the good and incinerates the evil with napalm. The good get the Geneva Conventions; the evil get Guantanamo. The good, Israel, gets to keep its nuclear arsenal; the evil, Iran, gets to lose them. The good, Pakistan, gets military aid; the evil, Syria, gets bombed. Confusing what's good with what's good for the corporate-state might sound like cutting-edge Straussian sophistication but to most people it's old-fashioned hypocrisy.

And hypocrisy was exactly the charge hurled at the legalistic Pharisees, Bush’s theological ancestors, whom Jesus charged, “cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and self-indulgence…. full of hypocrisy and lawlessness.” (31)

Since World War II, when has the American state not been engaged militarily somewhere? When has the American state not been without an absolutely evil enemy?

“History has an ebb and flow of justice, but history also has a visible direction, set by liberty and the author of liberty,” says the new pontiff, echoing Zarathustra again as he affirms that history has broken out of the ancient cosmic cycle of eternal rise and decline and is marching toward an ultimate triumph of the good. But marching toward what?

“It is the policy of the United States to seek and support the growth of democratic movements and institutions in every nation and culture,” he insists.

But in the period that he characterizes as spreading democracy, here are some of the democratic movements subverted by the secret action of the United States:

1948, Italy, the CIA corrupts democratic elections.

1953, Iran, the CIA overthrows the democratic government of Mossadegh and replaces it with the dictatorial Shah.

1954, Guatemala, the CIA overthrows the democratic government of Arbenz.

1958, Hungary, the US incites but then abandons the democratic uprising that is then crushed by the Soviet Union.

1957-1973, Laos, the CIA tries to overthrown the democratic government almost every year, and then failing that, bombs Laos into a country of refugees.

1959, Haiti, the US military installs the murderous dictator “Papa Doc” Duvalier.

1961, Ecuador, the CIA- backed military forces the democratically elected President Velasco to resign.

1961, Zaire, the CIA assassinates democratically elected Patrice Lumumba, leading to four years of chaos.

1963, Dominican Republic, the CIA replaces democratically elected Juan Bosch with a military junta.

1964, Brazil, the CIA overthrows democratically elected Joao Goulart and replaces him with a military junta whose death squads are trained by the CIA.

1965, Indonesia, the CIA over throws the democratically elected Suharto and replaces him with the mass murderer Sukarno, who kills between 500,000 and 1 million civilians with the CIA in the role of informant.

1971, Bolivia, the CIA overthrows President Juan Torres, leaving chaos and terror in his wake.

1973, Chile, the CIA overthrows the democratic government of Salvador Allende, which is followed by the brutal General Augusto Pinochet.

1974, Australia, the CIA topples the democratic left-leaning government of Edward Whitlam.

1975, Cambodia, the CIA overthrows popular Prince Sihanouk and paves the way for the rise of the murderous Pol Pot regime that kills millions of its own people.

1990, Haiti, the CIA overthrows the popular government of President Aristide. (32)

This abbreviated list ignores the US involvement in Korea, Vietnam, Nicaragua, Iraq and many other coups, civil wars, assassinations, and other subversions of democracy, not just abroad but even in the US itself. The list also ignores what's happened in the former Soviet Union and many of it former communist allies where the comfortable narrative of freedom has been marred by the criminality and ugly economic chaos of the new politics.

The Pharisees of the new American corporate-state like to preach the law when it’s on their side but the truth is they rip it to shreds whenever it opposes them. The dangerous brushfires they light around the globe threaten to usher in decades of bloodshed and violence masquerading as liberation and peacekeeping. Stripped of its democratic platitudes, Bush’s fire sermon is nothing more than a war-like invocation to his fire-god, a dangerous and hypocritical manifesto of arbitrary state-terror.

by Lila Rajiva http://www.dissidentvoice.org
January 26, 2005

http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Jan05/Rajiva0126.htm

IP: Logged


This topic is 2 pages long:   1  2 

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2011

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a