posted February 09, 2008 09:12 PM            

Not a day goes by without some Americans talking about the biblical God. And that day will be topping it up.

I am so out of discussion in GU on topics of politics.

posted February 10, 2008 02:44 AM            

I refuse to testify in US courts with a hand on the bible for the same reason I refuse to bow down to a english queen.

Why do people need to swear at all? And why on a book? Is that what we need? Is a persons words and the people present as witness not enough? And people will bluff anyway whether their hand is on or not on that book.

Besides America is just not the land of christians. They have people from all religion, race and nationalities. What kind of message are you sending to a future atheist president or a buddhist president?

If this president is to bring change , he/she better start with that stupid ritual.
Its so out of step with the 21st century values.

posted February 11, 2008 02:16 AM              

http://candst.tripod.com/tnppage/arg11.htm

When Presidents and other federal officials take their oaths of office, they often place their hand on a Bible and conclude their oaths with the words "so help me God." Some accommodationists see these practices as evidence that the founders never intended separation of church and state. But this conclusion doesn't follow: the Constitution doesn't require Presidents or other federal officials to place their hand on the Bible or say the words "so help me God." Quite the contrary, those sections of the Constitution that deal with oaths of office are completely secular in content and, as such, constitute evidence that the framers intended separation.
The Presidential oath of office is described in Article II, section 1 of the Constitution:

Before he enter on the Execution of his Office, he shall take the following Oath or Affirmation:--"I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my Ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."
Nothing in this section requires that the oath of office be taken on the Bible. Neither do the words "so help me God" appear in the oath. While Presidents often include this phrase in their inauguration ceremonies, the words are customary; they are not required by the Constitution and have no legal significance.

Additionally, we note that the words required by the Constitution are described as an "Oath or Affirmation," and that the President is allowed to simply affirm his faithfulness to the Constitution. The word "affirmation" was inserted in this section precisely to allow Presidents to avoid swearing oaths to God as a condition of taking office. This provision seems particularly intended for Quakers (who had religious objections to taking oaths), but it is worded broadly enough to encompass any person who objects to taking an oath, including non-theists.

At the time of the Constitution several states allowed Quakers to escape taking an oath as a condition of assuming elected office. The 1780 Constitution of the state of Massachusetts, for example, provided that:

when any person shall be of the denomination called Quakers, and shall decline taking said oath, he shall make his affirmation in the foregoing form, omitting the words "swear" and inserting, instead thereof, the word "affirm," and omitting the words "So help me God," and subjoining, instead thereof, the words, "This I do under the pains and penalties of perjury."
Conversely, the 1776 Delaware and 1777 Vermont constitutions did not restrict affirmations to Quakers. Like the Federal Constitution, these states allowed any citizen otherwise qualified for public office to affirm loyalty to a state, if conscientiously scrupulous of taking an oath. Still, the federal Constitution went far beyond the practices of even these states by prohibiting religious tests for public office (see below).

Finally, we note that even the "oath" form of the words prescribed by Article II, section 1 is secular in content. Unlike the oaths required in some states, the federal Constitution does not specify to whom the President "swears." God is not mentioned; it is almost as if the framers purposely worded the oath to allow the President decide for himself who, if anything, is being sworn to.

Oathtaking is not rocket science. If the framers wanted Presidents to invoke God when taking the oath of office they could have worded the oath to accomplish that objective. Instead, the constitutional oath of office contains no reference to God, need not be administered on the Bible, and need not even be considered an oath. Contrary to the accommodationist argument, Article II, section 1 is evidence that the framers intended the federal government to be secular in its operation.

Oaths of office for other federal and state officials are described in Article VI of the Constitution:

The Senators and Representatives before mentioned, and the Members of the several State Legislatures, and all executive and judicial Officers, both of the United States and of the several States, shall be bound by Oath or Affirmation, to support this Constitution; but no religious Test shall ever be required as a Qualification to any Office or public Trust under the United States.
Joseph Story, an early Justice of the Supreme Court and the author of the first detailed commentary on the United States Constitution, comments on the oath or affirmation clause of the Constitution as follows:

Oaths have a solemn obligation upon the minds of all reflecting men, and especially upon those who feel a deep sense of accountability to a Supreme being. If, in the ordinary administration of justice in cases of private rights, or personal claims, oaths are required of those, who try, as well as of those, who give testimony, to guard against malice, falsehood, and evasion, surely like guards ought to be to be interposed in the administration of high public trusts, and especially in such, as may concern the welfare and safety of the whole community. But there are know denominations of men, who are conscientiously scrupulous of taking oaths (among which is that pure and distinguished sect of Christians, commonly called Friends, or Quakers,) and therefore, to prevent any unjustifiable exclusion from office, the constitution has permitted a solemn affirmation to be made instead of an oath, and as its equivalent (Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution, 1833, pp. 1838ff.).
In other words, the Constitution guarantees all federal and state officials the right to avoid taking oaths of office. Further, the Constitution guarantees that there will be no religious tests for federal office. In the words of Joseph Story, the effect of these provisions is to "cut off for ever every pretense of any alliance between church and state in the national government." Additionally, these clauses moved the Constitution well beyond contemporary state constitutions in terms of their provisions for religious freedom.

Presidents and other federal officials may swear on the Bible and say the words "so help me God," but this does not make the Constitution any less secular. The Constitution requires nothing of federal officers in the way of religion. The framers saw no need to refer to God in the oath of office, and explicitly provided an alternative to the oath that guaranteed secularity.

So you see, it is really a formality of choice and anyone can refuse to swear on a Bible.

As for this statement:

quote:

---

Not a day goes by without some Americans talking about the biblical God.

---

posted February 11, 2008 02:09 PM            

Look at the irony though. Not one non-christian in that candidates list of president. I wonder if it will ever happen in my life time when a non-christian becomes a prez. Well one baby-step at a time. But so far its doing good if not better.

>>>What is wrong with that? You often talk about your belief system do you not? Are you in favor of silencing all those who do not hold the same beliefs that you do, Mannu? Is that the sort of world you want to create?

I do share my belief but at right places such as LL and only when people ask.

I don't thrust my beliefs on others. Look at the absurdity of that Mother Mary song being aired throughout the world during the Grammy. That may not be scary for you but to me the whole idea was scary. What kind of message is that to people around the world?

I am sure some in UK will be laughing like me at the absurdity of some Americans

I think they are overdoing it. They must for once wear my lens and see their recordings on how stupid they behave.

And politicians are so cunning that they will even convert to your religion to get most votes. Many will know who I am referring to.

Nuff said.

posted February 11, 2008 03:41 PM            

There is this story of this American who kept on singing "halleluia" and refused to be treated. She thought she was cured by Jesus of hiv ailment and some amoeba that entered her brain after eating some meat.
False hopes.

What kind of image of God are these Americans sending to their future children?

I agree there are positives and negatives. But these people have become victims to their priests and politicians.

I say no no no to all those absurdities

posted February 11, 2008 04:13 PM            

You are a tool comparer, so perhaps you can't understand my point of view LOL
Did I ever claim that I was an expert in military?

And you don't have a clue about the secularity of my nation. I am proud of it. Go there someday you will understand.

And how do you know that this web site has not been written by an Indian or a chinese developer

I am not comparing or contrasting. Making I statements as usual or a Global Unity gossip If you guys are moved then to heck with it. Don't take it personally thats all
If you can't do that then ignore my posts. However I do admit that I will have no readers if its so. Greatest pain a man can experience more than physical torture is complete ignorance. Quoting some European philosopher there. Hope it gets the point across.

posted February 11, 2008 04:33 PM            

Apparently CIA has sold themselves to the liberals. Nothing new isn't it? Every one in America seems to have sold themselves.

The CIA is believed to have made a Jackass of Bush by providing him false intelligence on Iraq. The CIA is biased and is pro democrat party.

Want more details go to www.poe.com

Tada

Oops I forgot no more politics.
Never mind. I can't shun it out all together can I? OK I will do politics in moderation. Howzatt?

posted February 11, 2008 05:37 PM            

quote:

---

A catholic priest and a rabbi go to a boxing match.

As the fighters come in the ring one makes the sign of the cross.

The rabbi asks the priest "Does that help him?"

The priest says "Not if he can't fight."

---

He he he he

posted February 12, 2008 02:30 AM            

WE are doing you a favor with this website. Specifically, Randall is doing you a favor as he created this forum for all to enjoy. I can't speak for him, but I am sure he didn't create LindaLand so that people could come here and constantly disrespect Americans.

I wouldn't venture onto a UK site and start to tell them how to run their country and refer to them as "These Britons".

Even in our heated debates over extremists within the Muslim religion, with the exception of a few nimrods, we differentiate between extremists and the majority of law abiding and peaceful Muslims.

You catagorize this Country and our people all in a negative, narrowminded and stereotypical manner all the while trying to protray yourself as one of the "enlightened" ones.

OUR people fought and continue to fight for our rights and all those that come to our Country, to have the freedom to speak out. We afford those rights to others, specifically in the form of an American website.

It is not a RIGHT for you, or any of us to be on LL, but it is a privilage that you seem to thing is owed to you.

posted February 12, 2008 08:27 AM            

If its a privelge, its not given by you. Let that person come forward and take it away.

Get over it.

posted February 12, 2008 09:16 AM            

I will give you a tip to read me:
I try to find universal truths whenever I observe. Sometimes I end up stereotyping. Excuse me please but I have to start by saying something, don't I? I am not an expert on certain things. But I can think and I can reason, thats all. Why are you so afraid of me?

posted February 12, 2008 03:02 PM            

I remember doing this after moving to Tennessee from California. It was total culture shock to my 18 year old system. So many things were different and strange and uncomfortable.

posted February 12, 2008 03:13 PM              

heee...heee...

I am only kidding....

.

AG, that was very well spoken!

Really, very direct, to the point, and thorough... With immense compassion and understanding.

Lot's of wisdom hiding within you...

posted February 12, 2008 03:59 PM            

You do not "ask" questions or inquire about how we do things, such as in the way that AG discussed. Instead, you degrade American's yet you find yourself constantly on this site.

If you have questions, ask away. If you want to be a complete imbicile and treat people here like we are the scourge of the Earth, then you will be met with people like me that will hold up the mirror and show you how much of a bigot you are being.

posted February 12, 2008 05:18 PM            

Its so sad that you think that way. And I am not here to nourish your illusions. Go back and read my posts and you will find several occurences when I appreciated Americans. There were readers who found it distasteful then. It is easier to hate people than to love people. [Quote me on that personal universal truth - oxymoron LOL] . Doesn't that prove it? It also proves, you cannot make every one happy. And frankly you have a lop sided view of America probably because you are so justifying what you are doing for America. I can admire your patriotism, but I can't admire your being which really sucks because its hypnotised. I repeat "Get out of it". I think we will never be able to convince each other unless we are both dehypnotised totally. Never mind - its a spiritual jargon that many people use in spiritual discussions. You and I have both travelled the paths over several lifetimes. Understand that. Not that I want you to change to my way of things , thats the least I have in mind. I am having fun. Looks like people like you are jealous when I am having so much fun here. Know that you are free to converse with others over here. If you feel what I have said is factually incorrect then point it out as AG may have indicated. Your silence does not mean you agree with me. I will be foolish to think that. There are several readers here. My advice for them "Take the best and leave the rest". I do that with what others have to share. Clarifying again that your ass and those of Americans are not under my line of fire.

Perhaps there is something deep inside in what I say that hurts you because its truth

But an important truth I have always mentioned on so many occasions is that 'its an arduous task to change the outside world we live in'. I am not saying its necessary to change anything on the outside world. Take global warming for instance and understand how people are split. Pidaua and I are not required for this universe to function. Yet she fights and she defends whenever I make a point agsint America. Because she has been taught that 'that is the right thing to do'. One can appreciate her duti- boundness, but deep inside she is expecting a big reward from America. Her actions arises because she has a reward in mind. Her actions do not arise spontaneously. If it was so , then what she had to say, I would have silently accepted it. But no she is disturbance deep inside. In fact she is disturbance itself.

posted February 12, 2008 05:39 PM            

We DO care about helping out those less fortunate, which is unfortunate because people LIKE you LOOK at us like their own personal ATM. Have a flood... No worries, AMERICA will come to your rescue. People in your country commiting GENOCIDE..never FEAR... AMERICA will be here to help you once again.

I have no fears other than those stemmed from narrowminded people like you. You see, people like you take and take and take AND NEVER give. You keep expecting the big RED, WHITE and BLUE to always bail you out yet what do YOU contribute? Oh wait.. I know.. useless diatribes.. standing on your well worn soapbox- hoping for those as ignorant as you to join forces...

You make me laugh. For every ******* like you, there are 10 million that are smarter, I say that because I am sure you come from a country with a VERY large population. Actually, it would not be that hard to find out WHO you are and WHERE you post from LOL..

That is the beauty of AMERICA.. WE KNOW... WE ALWAYS know..

Yet, we still put up with little mosquitoes like you because we need entertainment

As I said before.. GROW UP or the world will just GROW without you.

posted February 12, 2008 05:51 PM            

Will answer when I get back..Before I go.

>>yet, we still put up with little mosquitoes like you because we need entertainment

And trust me , what the Bush Admin is doing in the war against axis is mostly on Page 18 on American newspaper

No matter how much you try to gain respect - why not start from home, from here?

posted February 12, 2008 06:42 PM            

America cannot even help its own citizen when they need the government most, how can they help the rest of the world

Your pigeon headed brain has already forgotten what happened in Katrina.

I already responded to your other points in the earlier post. You military people are always about goals.
When you get tired from the useless ness of your jobs come to me for advice and I will help you

America is a beggar country in reality. What can it give to the world.
It has only taken from the world including nature. It has stolen a jewish God.
It has stolen oil from the world.
It has stolen scientists from the world LOL

Now its own people are selling America to the world. Talk about Karma.
Look at the latest chinese spy story here and remember what I was insisting so many days ago:
http://www.washingtontimes.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080211/NATION/718249348/10 01

People of America were mostly failure in their original countries. Like it or not, it is fact.
Look at the drk skinned mexicans I find in America. Compare them to the people in spain. Did you see the class difference?
When I wear the Freudian (not Marxian lens mind it) lens I see some with worker class mentality. No offence readers. I am being challenged and in accordance with the freedom that every one is given I have the right to speak. Whether people like it or not its up to their personal nature.

Successful people from original countries never wanted to come here leaving their factories with 1000 workers.
Why will they? The same is happening today. Most Indians who come here are doctors and IT workers. They were not failures.
Perhaps they were tired with establishments, bureaucracies etc. Which country isn't? Perhaps to make more money.

So I never had the fight within me of being looked down upon( I hear horror stories of racism happening in Australia to IT workers) I accepted both country as my home. Infact I came here first because of the deal between
an American and Indian company. The reason they issue visas is because America lacks high skilled people. I am not going to judge by saying
Americans are lazy and stupid thats why they need people from other countries . LOL no stereotyping there. But there are some truths in them as well. And besides look at the growing cost of education in America. How can students ever afford to pay such high tuition fees?
Are you really proud of America?

Perhaps my comments may make you think I am judging. Perhaps you are not comfortable because its your country that
is under the attack of my pen. I can't help it. If I was in India, I would have attacked things that I feel are not right.
But I am not there. I may wear a Freud lens or a Karl Marx lens or an Alan watts lens and respond to what I believe is happenning around me.
I don't think you have any business to interfere in that. Up yours if you are so stubborn.