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Author Topic:   Superdelegates......this is crap
BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 12, 2008 08:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ok, so does anyone else think the superdelegate process, similar the elecotral process is totally retarded and takes power away from the people?

The super delegates are probably old grumpy people who will probably pick the older more centrist candidate, IE BILLARY

Superdelegate" is an informal term for some of the delegates to the Democratic National Convention, the quadrennial convention of the United States Democratic Party.

The convention delegates who are not superdelegates are selected as a result of party primaries and caucuses in each U.S. state, in which voters express their preference among the contenders for the party’s nomination for President of the United States. Delegates supporting each candidate are chosen in approximate ratio to their candidate’s share of the vote. In some states, the delegates so chosen are legally required to vote for the candidate to whom they are pledged, at least on the first ballot at the convention. By contrast, the superdelegates are seated based solely on their status as current or former elected officeholders and party officials. They are free to support any candidate for the nomination, although many of them have publicly announced endorsements.

Both the Democratic and Republican party have a number of state level unpledged delegates that are chosen by each state's party through convention, caucus, or state party leader vote (depending on how that particular state-party body has decided to choose them)[1]. The state level unpledged delegates tend to vote for the candidate who received the most votes from their state (although they are not required to and some state parties give them more leeway than others). Many state Republican party delegations are made up entirely of unpledged delegates which gives them the distinction "winner take all". Even with these traditions, unpledged delegates are allowed to change their vote at any time before the national convention. This is why both the Republican and Democratic parties have the potential for a brokered convention. This is far less likely for the Republican party where the traditions are more strict and there are far fewer unpledged delegates who are given a free hand.

The Democratic party takes the concept of unpledged delegates a step further by having a large number of Party Leader and Elected Official (PLEO) unpledged delegates that are not associated with any particular state. Sometimes, the term Superdelegate is used only to describe Democratic PLEO delegates, and other times it is used to describe all Democratic unpledged delegates. This article discusses only PLEO unpledged delegates.

At the 2008 Democratic National Convention the superdelegates will make up approximately one-fifth of the total number of delegates. The unforeseen and unprecedented closeness of the race between the leading contenders Hillary Rodham Clinton and Barack Hussein Obama following Super Tuesday has focused attention on the potential role of the superdelegates in selecting the Democratic nominee, inasmuch as in the aggregate they could come to be kingmakers to a degree not seen in previous election cycles. [2] Such an outcome would result in the first brokered convention since 1952.
Contents
[hide]

* 1 History
* 2 Superdelegates in 2008
o 2.1 Pledged and unpledged delegates
* 3 Criticism
* 4 See also
* 5 References
* 6 External links

[edit] History

After the 1968 Democratic National Convention, the Democratic Party implemented changes in its delegate selection process, based on the work of the McGovern-Fraser Commission. The purpose of the changes was to make the composition of the convention less subject to control by party leaders and more responsive to the votes cast during the campaign for the nomination.

These comprehensive changes left some Democrats believing that the role of party leaders and elected officials had been unduly diminished, weakening the Democratic ticket. In response, the superdelegate rule was instituted after the 1980 election. Its purpose was to accord a greater role to active politicians.[3]

In the 1984 election, the major contenders for the Presidential nomination were Gary Hart and Walter Mondale. Each of them won some primaries and caucuses. Hart was only slightly behind Mondale in the total number of votes cast, but Mondale won the support of almost all the superdelegates and became the nominee.[4]

The superdelegates have not always prevailed, however. In the Democratic primary phase of the 2004 election, Howard Dean acquired an early lead in delegate counts by obtaining the support of a number of superdelegates before even the first primaries were held. Nevertheless, John Kerry defeated Dean in a succession of primaries and caucuses and won the nomination.

[edit] Superdelegates in 2008

Superdelegates to the 2008 Democratic National Convention include all Democratic members of the United States Congress, Democratic governors, various additional elected officials, members of the Democratic National Committee, as well as "all former Democratic Presidents, all former Democratic Vice Presidents, all former Democratic Leaders of the U.S. Senate, all former Democratic Speakers of the U.S. House of Representatives and Democratic Minority Leaders, as applicable, and all former Chairs of the Democratic National Committee."[5] There is an exception, however, for otherwise qualified individuals who endorse another party’s candidate for President; they lose their superdelegate status. In 2008, Senator Joe Lieberman was disqualified as a superdelegate because he endorsed Republican John McCain.[6] A list of superdelegates can be found here.

The Democratic Party’s official rules do not use the term "superdelegate". The formal description (in Rule 9.A) is "party leaders and elected officials".[5]

The 2008 Democratic National Convention will have approximately 796[7] superdelegates, although the number can change up to the beginning of the convention (Call to the Convention Section IV(C)(2)). Delegates from state caucuses and primaries will number 3,253, resulting in a total number of delegate votes of 4,049. A candidate needs a majority of that total, or 2,025, to win the nomination.[7] Superdelegates account for approximately one fifth (19.6%) of all votes at the convention. Delegates chosen in the Democratic caucuses and primaries account for approximately four fifths (80.4%) of the Democratic convention delegates.[7][8] Note: All numbers in this section assume that Michigan and Florida delegates are not counted per current Democratic National Committee rules. If those rules are changed before or during the convention, the numbers above will change as appropriate.

In the Republican Party, as in the Democratic Party, members of the party’s national committee automatically become delegates without being pledged to any candidate. In 2008, there are 123 members of the Republican National Committee among the total of 2,380 delegates to the 2008 Republican National Convention.[9] Despite this similarity in procedure, the term "superdelegate" is generally used only about Democratic delegates, although there are exceptions.[10]

[edit] Pledged and unpledged delegates

The Democratic Party rules distinguish between pledged and unpledged delegates, with the selection of the former being based on their announced preferences in the contest for the presidential nomination.[5] Superdelegates, selected under Rule 9.A by virtue of their status as party leaders and elected officials, are all unpledged delegates. They may support any candidate they wish, including one who has dropped out of the presidential race.[11] There are also "unpledged add-on delegates" selected under Rule 9.B and "pledged party leader and elected official delegates" selected under rule 9.C.[5]

The process of selecting delegates is described here and here. To sum up, the Democratic Party's delegates fall into seven categories:

* District-level delegates
* At-large delegates
* Unpledged party-leader delegates
* Unpledged elected-official delegates
* Pledged party-leader delegates
* Pledged elected-official delegates
* Unpledged add-on delegates

[edit] Criticism

The Democratic Party has been criticized [4][12] for conducting its nominating process in a non-democratic fashion, since superdelegates are generally chosen without regard to their preferences in the presidential race and are not obligated to support the candidate chosen by the voters. There have been repeated calls to eliminate the superdelegates from the nomination process to more accurately reflect the popular vote.

Delegates chosen in primaries and caucuses may not exactly reflect the votes cast, although party rules require proportional allocation rather than winner-take-all.[13]

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zanya
unregistered
posted February 13, 2008 04:24 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obama will win.

don't worry, be happy.....

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Ra
Moderator

Posts: 80
From: Atlanta
Registered: May 2009

posted February 13, 2008 04:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is more crap than you know ...

The super delegates are probably old grumpy people who will probably pick the older more centrist candidate ... nope.

By contrast, the superdelegates are seated based solely on their status as current or former elected officeholders and party officials ... not necessarily.

What I am about to tell and show you should make any American, Republican, Democrat, Lefty, Righty, conservative, liberal, communist, socialist or Nazi mad as hell.

Meet Jason Rea, superdelegate. He is 21 years old, a senior in college, and has never voted before. He has recently had personal conversations with Madeline Albright, Bill Clinton, Barack Obama and who knows who else, and actually had breakfast with Chelsea Clinton just the other day. These people have actually called this kid!

Mad yet? You should be. Everyone should be.

But don't take my word for it, watch this interview with him on msnbc ...
http://rawstory.com/rawreplay/?p=625

Like I said before, the "political process" in this country is a joke and a scam.

Did the Founding Fathers have this in mind when they wrote the Constitution?

I don't know whether to laugh or cry.

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Mannu
Knowflake

Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 09:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In the event of 50-50 split or Billary leading the superdelegates by a dozen, one has to become president and the other vp. That is the only way to unite the dem party. The question is who will be prez?

In India, if I remember correctly the majority party winner decides who will become the Prime minister by an internal vote.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

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posted February 13, 2008 10:36 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do we really see hillary taking a backseat?

If I were her, at her point in her career, I wouldn't bother.

Think about this.....Hillary is 60, Obama is 46.

It would make sense for Obama to take a vice presidency, in 8 years he can run for President at age 54, which is an ideal presidential age.

Hillary on the other hand taking vice president would be 68 by the time she could run for president again......I think she'd be over it at that point.

There are other reasons why Hillary would not want to take the vice presidency.

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Mannu
Knowflake

Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 11:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point.

My only worry for the democrats is that if Hillary is the nominee against Cain, it will be battle of the sexes and history has shown that earthlings love male more than female to lead. The very idea of a country being run by a woman in pant suits is unacceptable to many Americans I think. The country is not ready I think to accept a woman president based on popular votes today or perhaps Obama is simply winning the affection of many. So Billary must decide to backdown and ask Obama to run. But its too early right now to make any decisions. By march and later it should be little clear.


And I don't think the dems will be elected after 8 years. It will be republicans. Its been a cycle I think in the past few years.

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 12:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And I don't think the dems will be elected after 8 years. It will be republicans. Its been a cycle I think in the past few years.

You need to widen your look at the cycles.

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Mannu
Knowflake

Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
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posted February 13, 2008 12:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was assuming the democrats will be in power in 2009. And that statement was alluding to after 8 years from 2009. Makes sense?

Whats your objective though?

I am not interested in most of yesterdays. Mostly because campaigning wasn't so lengthy in those years.

My cycle started 1989 (20 years ago)

And I am not saying that people follow a mathematical pattern always. No.


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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 01:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So from 1989 until now we've had 8 years of Clinton, and 11 years of Bush. If you bumped it up to starting at 1992, it would be half and half. That doesn't really point out a Republican win. Nor does the change of power in Congress in 2006. I'm just saying that you should keep an open mind. There's no telling what's going to happen (unless you're Ra, in which case Hillary's already won).

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

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posted February 13, 2008 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you count 1980 till now it's

8 years reagan

4 years bush

8 clinton

8 bush

So here we have 20 years of repub and only 8 of democrat.

I think the nation is due for another democrat.

Just look what 6 years of republican president, congress and senate has done. We're ruined, and don't ask me to provide details as to why, you (the preverbial you) can look into that yourself.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 02:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Super Delegates is only one way the demo elites attempt to keep control over who will be the party nominee.

It reminds me of the old back room party machine politics.

But hey, I'm not a demoscat.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

Posts: 95
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 13, 2008 05:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I figured that'd be your opinion Jwhop.

IN fact when I read about superdelegates for the first time and saw that republicans don't use this method....I thought to myself, I bet Jwhop will comment on this. You're such a reliable old man

My guess is that its a hold over from the past when the party had different values etc.

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Ra
Moderator

Posts: 80
From: Atlanta
Registered: May 2009

posted February 14, 2008 03:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The Superdelegate scheme was activated in 1984. Just about the same time as the Elite decided who the next few Presidents would be.

As AG mentioned, I've been pretty adamant about Hillary being crowned, but I've got to say that I am beginning to wonder. It sure seems as if many of her inside supporters are turning on her. Obama appears to be making quite a stir.

I'm beginning to wonder if the Plan has changed.

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BlueRoamer
Knowflake

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posted February 15, 2008 11:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Maybe, Ra, it's not quite as rigged as you think!!

Then again, none of us really knows the REAL truth, or maybe we do??

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Ra
Moderator

Posts: 80
From: Atlanta
Registered: May 2009

posted February 15, 2008 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm quite certain that it is every bit as rigged as I, and others who are much smarter and knowledgable than I, think. So I am wondering, what is really going on?

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 15, 2008 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They've infiltrated the Obama camp...

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 16, 2008 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I bet Jwhop will comment on this. You're such a reliable old man...Blue Roamer

Better to be a "reliable old man" than an ignorant, immature, unreliable little punk.

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