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Author Topic:   Soon US Citizens Must Ask for Gov't Permission to Fly or Travel
Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2008 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
From: http://www.naturalnews.com/022737.html

Soon U.S. Citizens Must Ask for Government Permission to Fly or Travel

(NaturalNews) The Department of Homeland Security's Transportation Security Administration (TSA) is moving forward to institute a rule that would require all passengers to go through a government review process before boarding any airplane that takes off or lands anywhere with in the United States.

The U.S. government already requires international passengers to participate in the Advanced Passenger Information System, providing their full name, gender, date of birth, nationality, country of residence, and travel document type and number to the TSA before boarding. Under the proposed Secure Flight Program, this procedure would also be required on domestic flights.

Currently, individual airlines are responsible for checking the passenger manifests against the "no fly" and "enhanced screening" lists provided by the TSA. The new programs are part of a concerted effort to centralize this process, so that the TSA itself will check all supplied information against these lists, and then instruct the airline or airport staff as to how to proceed.

The Association of Corporate Travel Executives (ACTE) has criticized the new Secure Flight rules for their secrecy and lack of accountability. The association has expressed concern that there is no clear appeals process for passengers denied boarding or continually forced to undergo enhanced security screening.

"On the surface, the new Secure Flight program no longer relies on commercial databases and appears to have reduced the number of names on the 'No Fly' list," said ACTE Executive Director Susan Gurley. "It also seems that the responsibility for checking data is no longer abrogated to the airlines. While this is a step in the right direction, it prompts the industry to ask what was the origin of this new data, how is it stored, who has access to it, and how can it be corrected."

I guess it doesn't really matter -- I can't afford to fly anywhere right now anyway..... :-\

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yourfriendinspirit
unregistered
posted February 28, 2008 07:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have very mixed feelings here...

First, I really, really dislike having our government take more control out of citizens hands.

Second, I seriously dislike even more of my privacy being stripped of me.

I wonder when and where this government control ends... Next it will apply to trains, buses, vehicles etc. ALL TRAVEL...

In essence, at any given time, it is on record exactly where you are.. listed by full name, birth date, gender, nationality, etc. I believe we are being set up more completely for a even worse situation yet to come...

On the other hand I see where this may benefit law enforcement, parents, family, and friends of kidnapped victims (or)even those that may wish to find justice within the legal system... If someone is on trial as an example, they could now be placed on this "no fly" list which is bound to eventually become a "no travel between states" list nationwide and the likely hood of skipping out is lessoned greatly.

still thinking...

Interesting to say the least Zala...

I appreciate you bringing this up for discussion

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2008 08:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I couldn't find any more articles to back that up, but this was kind of interesting:
http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2008/02/us-terror-watch.html

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BornUnderDioscuri
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Posts: 49
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Registered: Jun 2009

posted February 28, 2008 08:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This is highly upsetting. I strongly disagree with this measure though I know its effective. I got interviewed by security when flying to Israel. They have a very short psych analysis by former intelligence members for anyone boarding the plane. And the man asking me questions was such a jerk for no reason, he made me very nervous which made the whole thing worse and then he just asked more and more questions cuz i kept stuttering...ugh

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Azalaksh
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Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 28, 2008 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I appreciate your thoughts, YFIS
quote:
If someone is on trial as an example, they could now be placed on this "no fly" list which is bound to eventually become a "no travel between states" list nationwide and the likely hood of skipping out is lessoned greatly.
But what about if they are acquitted and found innocent in your "trial" scenario?? Who is going to maintain this No Fly list and update it as needed??

And I think that someone who is determined to "skip out" is going to find a way anyway, while the (innocent) majority of the population has to pay by living under this draconic proposed legislation.....

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted February 28, 2008 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And I think that someone who is determined to "skip out" is going to find a way anyway, while the (innocent) majority of the population has to pay by living under this draconic proposed legislation.....

I absolutely agree with you on that. The sad thing is the people who wish to do us harm will still be able to do as they please and everyone else will just be put through more crap. Such actions are getting very dangerous and a serious serious violation of our freedoms. And honestly that scares me to death. Furthermore such behavior doesn't make anyone feel safer it only makes them feel less safe and just plain violated. I feel the security scans in the airports should simply be better and perhaps have a soldier or two on each plane. I am sure they can find some to spare...that would probably be better than any kind of list,.

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BlueRoamer
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From:
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posted February 29, 2008 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are we on the sliding slope towards needing to present IDs for everything?

How far will this go?

Presenting our "papers" to "terrorist officials" on demand a la Nazi Germany or apartheid South Africa?

Are we going to put all people of arabic descent into internment camps?

No more big government.

I'd rather be blown up by a terrorist than give up more of my rights.

i'd rather live at risk in a free world than be safe in a prison.

Does anyone realize how many people die of terrorist attacks every year versus how many people die of heart disease? Where are the EMERGENCY BILL MEASURES for banning hydrogenated fats from our diets?

Oh not that would be big government, we don't need the government to nanny us, we can make our own decisions. That's fine. But then why do we need the govt to protect us and harass us to prevent terrorist threats that take so few lives every year?

Because this is how the gov't keeps us down. Keep it coming Bushy. Keep us afraid of terrorist attacks, cowering in front of our tvs, not living up to our potential, not really living, and maintaining the status quo for the rich and powerful.

I pray we can get a democrat into office, McCain will just continue this erosion of our rights.

"those who favor security over liberty deserve neither"

-ben franklin

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Xodian
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From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 08:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not even gonna begin as to how tough the security checks are already to begin with here. I can only imagine how bad they are in the U.S.

In Canada, the luggage is screened twice at Toronto internaitonal and after the gel tube scare, all bottled-liquids were banned from flights. I can only imgaine just how harsh its gonna be to get PERMISSION to leave the country.

As if the cooky weather and the possibility of cancelled flights doesn't exactly help the whole situation.

quote:
I feel the security scans in the airports should simply be better and perhaps have a soldier or two on each plane.

Most flights already have a designated air marshal.

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Geocosmic Valentine
Newflake

Posts: 0
From: New York, NY
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 07:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Geocosmic Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When was the last time anyone here boarded a plane to fly somewhere in the US without showing your I.D., drivers license or paying for the ticket with your credit card? It's already in effect and has been since 9/11.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 07:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm not even certain this story is correct.

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 08:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
AG ~

From the gov't website: http://www.dhs.gov/xnews/releases/pr_1186668114504.shtm

First paragraph -- rest at link:

"The U.S. Department of Homeland Security (DHS) announced today steps that will strengthen aviation security through uniform and consistent passenger prescreening against government watch lists. DHS is publishing two regulations which will initiate these changes: (1)Advance Passenger Information System (APIS) Predeparture Final Rule, which enables DHS to collect manifest information for international flights departing from or arriving in the United States prior to boarding; and (2) Secure Flight Notice of Proposed Rule Making (NPRM), which lays out DHS plans to assume watch list matching responsibilities from air carriers for domestic flights and align domestic and international passenger prescreening. Both programs carry out 9/11 Commission recommendations."

Note: I did NOT read the entire 137-page pdf of "Notice of Proposed Rulemaking Secure Flight Program"

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I'm reading that right, there's no asking the government for permission to fly (as suggested in the article's title). It sounds like what they've been doing, which is checking names against a terrorist database, which is something they have also been doing for home ownership for years now.

I do agree with this sentiment, though:

quote:
And I think that someone who is determined to "skip out" is going to find a way anyway, while the (innocent) majority of the population has to pay by living under this draconic proposed legislation.....

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Azalaksh
Knowflake

Posts: 982
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 10:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
YFIS ~
quote:
In essence, at any given time, it is on record exactly where you are.. listed by full name, birth date, gender, nationality, etc. I believe we are being set up more completely for a even worse situation yet to come...
I'm afraid I agree here
Instead of our kids being denied entrance into public schools without vaccination cards, they'll be denied on the basis of whether they have their gov't-implanted microchip

AG ~

The article title wasn't mine, it was the author's
I think we all get a bit upset at the gradual continual erosion of our personal freedoms -- maybe it brings out the cynicism (and a bit of sensationalism) lurking within.....

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 29, 2008 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know.

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