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Author Topic:   Carrying the Progressive Nanny State Too Far
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2008 06:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But then, that's what nanny state socialists always do...go way too far.

How about suspending an honors student for buying candy.

God, we have these ninnie nannies poking their noses in everywhere...everywhere their noses don't belong. These little Nazi fascist Progressives firmly believe they know what's best...for everyone else but there's not a shred of evidence they know much of anything.

Conn. Student Suspended For Buying Candy In School
Stripped Of Title As Class Vice President, Barred From Honors Dinner

NEW HAVEN, Conn. (AP) ¯ The New Haven schools superintendent said Wednesday that he will review a principal's decision to suspend an eighth-grade student for buying candy in school.

Michael Sheridan was stripped of his title as class vice president, barred from attending an honors student dinner and suspended for a day after buying a bag of Skittles from a classmate.

The New Haven school system banned candy sales in 2003 as part of a districtwide school wellness policy, said school spokeswoman Catherine Sullivan-DeCarlo.

Shelli Sheridan, Michael's mother, told the New Haven Register that he is a top student with no previous disciplinary problems.

"It's too much. It's too unfair," she said. "He's never even had a detention."

Superintendent Reginald Mayo said Wednesday that Sheridan Middle School principal Eleanor Turner just wanted to keep students safe.

He said she warned students repeatedly after the school experienced a rash of candy sales in the fall. There were also worries about those selling the candy, especially after a student's wallet was stolen on the bus.

"She had concerns about the safety of students carrying large amounts of cash in school," Mayo said. "The question is, was the punishment too harsh? That's something we need to evaluate."

Mayo said he hopes to resolve the situation quickly. Michael's suspension has been reduced from three days to one, but he has not been reinstated as class vice president.

He said he didn't realize his candy purchase was against the rules, but he did notice that the student selling the Skittles on Feb. 26 was being secretive.

An administrator busted Michael with the candy in his pocket. His mother says the student who sold him the Skittles out of a lunch box was also suspended.

A copy of the district's policy states that "no candy or junk food fundraisers will be allowed on school grounds" and that only healthy snacks will be sold in vending machines.

The policy also prohibits bake sales and other food sales during school hours. The policy does not say anything about students sharing snacks when no money is exchanged.
http://wcbstv.com/topstories/Connecticut.skittles.suspension.2.675314.html

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blue moon
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From: U.K
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posted March 13, 2008 02:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Healthy eating is a big deal in most schools. I have heard grumbles about packed lunches being inspected for junk food content, but I make mine have school dinners so I can't provide primary evidence.

But don't worry, we can all eat as much junk as we like at home, so no need for panic just yet.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Attempting to punish for something which is legal and lawful everywhere in the United States is part of the little Nazi fascist food police thinking...which btw is none of the school districts business in the first place.

Show us that the school districts are capable of and are doing a credible job in their primary function of educating in academic subjects...which they are not..and leave decision making about food selection to parents or the students themselves.

What's next, a requirement that every student in public schools eat 5 servings of vegetables a day?

I'm no fan of the public school systems in the United States. They don't rise to the level of mediocre baby sitters.

At about $10,000 per pupil per year, they're grossly overfunded and underperforming in their primary function.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 03:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Guess these fascist Nazi food police got the large helping of scorn, contempt and attemtion they deserved.

School clears kids in contraband candy caper
NEW: Superintendent, principal decide to rescind punishments

Sheridan was suspended, stripped of title as class VP, barred from honors dinner

NEW HAVEN, Connecticut (AP) -- School officials have decided to go light on an eighth-grader caught with contraband candy in New Haven, Connecticut.


Michael Sheridan originally was suspended and loss his class vice president post after buying a bag of candy.

Michael Sheridan, an eighth-grade honors student who was suspended for a day, barred from attending an honors dinner and stripped of his title as class vice president after he was caught with a bag of Skittles candy in school will get his student council post back, school officials said.

Superintendent Reginald Mayo said in a statement late Wednesday that he and principal Eleanor Turner met with student Michael's parents and that Turner decided to clear the boy's record and restore him to his student council post.

Michael was disciplined after he was caught buying a bag of Skittles from a classmate. The classmate's suspension also will be expunged, school officials said. Watch boy explain case »

The New Haven school system banned candy sales in 2003 as part of a districtwide school wellness policy, school spokeswoman Catherine Sullivan-DeCarlo said.

"I am sorry this has happened," Turner said in a statement. "My hope is that we can get back to the normal school routine, especially since we are in the middle of taking the Connecticut mastery test."


Turner said she should have reinforced in writing the verbal warnings against candy transactions.

Michael had said that he didn't realize his candy purchase was against the rules, but he did notice that the student selling the Skittles on February 26 was being secretive.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/13/skittles.suspension.ap/index.html?section=cnn_latest

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BlueRoamer
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posted March 13, 2008 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BlueRoamer     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop why do you only attack nannying when the nannying is what you would consider leftist or socialist oriented nannying?

What about the nannying of having the govt force me to take my shoes off and not take liquids on planes? Why can't I fend for myself when a terrorist attacks my plane?

Both are public health hazards, I honestly don't see a blatant difference between the two. Your arguments are flawed because you claim to be against big govt and nannying, but only when the nannying doesn't fit your idea of what the government should be doing. So which is it Jwhop, are you against nannying, or just against leftists?

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Mannu
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From: always here and no where
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posted March 13, 2008 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good point BR.

These both cases illustrates restriction of freedom.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 13, 2008 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I guess that because it's Connecticut that the people involved MUST necessarily be Fascists. Am I reading that right? Is that because Republicans like their kids eating unknown quantities of junk food without supervision?

I guess all those mothers and fathers out there shouldn't get a voice in whether their children learn good eating habits. No freedom to raise their children in the way they see fit. Protect the children's freedoms over the parents.

I must have missed the rant over the poor Catholic children being forced to dress a certain way for school. Where's that thread. Maybe Catholicism also equals Fascism. Someone inform the Pope. Tell him he's just like Hitler for demanding a dress code in Catholic school.

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blue moon
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From: U.K
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 13, 2008 05:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have a go at trying to get 30 kids to sit and do spelling tests when they are all sky-high on sugar and e-numbers, you might change your tune.

They're kids. If you let them eat just what they like it will be ice-cream, chocolate and crisps all day. So they get told to eat cabbage, tough luck. Just eat it - or go hungry.

Often these kinds of stories get in the press because the parents don't like being told their kids are brats with no manners. Food is just a version of similar I've seen in the press over the years -banned for having a skin head, mother doesn't like it, it's because he's got nits, he's a lovely boy, he just had that one little problem and it was the police always picking on him, blah, blah, blah. I didn't even have to make that story up.

School uniforms? All schools here have school uniforms. They always have done under right-wing, left-wing and coalition governments. It's not the hottest of political issues.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Blue, you could not have drawn a more absurd comparison.

Just in case you don't know Blue; blowing up airplanes with shoe bombs and or liquid explosives is illegal everywhere in the United States...not to mention in most of the rest of the world.

The governments highest duty, obligation and responsibility is the protection of the lives and property of citizens. That's a compelling interest of government and not any part of a ninny nammy state.

Blue, you have my permission and approval to rush any terrorists you may be flying with and help them to assume room temperature.

On the other hand, buying and eating Skittles, candy, cookies and other food stuffs is not illegal anywhere in the United States. Attempting to punish that which is not illegal but is rather protected activity...whether the little Nazi fascist food police like it or not...is just the kind of long nosed ninny nanny tactics most Americans despise.

Oh, to be sure, there are those..some here, no doubt... who need their every activity controlled since they are incapable of thinking for themselves. Most of us resent the hell out of these intellectual pygmies interfering in our private activities.

acoustic, once again and as usual, you attempt to make a connection which cannot be made. The citizens of the state and probably those with children in that school district made their displeasure known. That was the reason they backed off their contemptible actions.

Gee Blue Moon, I really do wonder how I and other members of my generation managed to grow up, get a good education, eat cookies, candy and whatever else we wanted...all without the benefit of the little Nazi fascist food police. Stunning isn't it?

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 13, 2008 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I knew you wouldn't go near the Catholic uniform comment.

quote:
The citizens of the state and probably those with children in that school district made their displeasure known. That was the reason they backed off their contemptible actions.

Granted the punishment didn't fit the crime, but I bet candy is still not allowed at the school.

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Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 13, 2008 07:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
There is no evidence that consuming sugar or aspartame can make a child with a normal attention span hyperactive. Although sugar does make energy available to the body, it does not increase excitement or activity. Children with attention deficit-hyperactive disorder (ADHD) may metabolize sugar differently, and there exists the possibility that sugar may aggravate a behavior disorder that is already present. However, the majority of studies have found that even these children do not have negative or hyperactive reactions to sugar.

True or False: Eating Sugar Tends to Make Children Hyperactive

So first off the sugar-high myth is just that. A myth. Secondly, that high has been associated with chocolate ... which we all know contains caffeine (not natural chocolate but manufactured chocolates where it is often added).

It's so unreal that people expect the government to tell them everything they can do. There is no reason to make food illegal just because people are unwilling to control themselves. Alcohol isn't illegal, is it? Neither are cigarettes. But children eating candy? That's criminal. Parents need to go back to raising their own kids without expecting schools and the government to do everything for them. But few will care as long as someone else is worried about their kids for them. Sure, change the vending machines and offer healthy lunches. But some schools don't even let you send your kid to school with a cupcake or a cookie on his birthday. And maybe if teachers weren't so overtaxed with crowded schools and absurdly rigid testing schedules, then a kid eating some Skittles woudn't be jumped on as such a threat to them. But no, teachers just follow along mindlessly with all the new "standards". And the quality of education has drastically shifted to the low end of the scale. So many moms I know complain about the teachers their kids are stuck with but the teachers never want to admit that their skills are subpar. Ban this and that food, put all the kids on drugs for "hyperactivity" (which often translates as a teacher unable to connect with and control her students or unwilling to bother with individualizing the curriculum), drill their minds with useless testing skills and then blame it entirely on the children when you still don't get the results you want. The whole system is a nightmare when none of the adults can take responsibility for their own failings.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 13, 2008 07:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
They're probably working. Remarkably one parent can't stay home and tend to the kids the way they used to.

I guess you're neglecting the whole obesity epidemic amongst our nation's children as well. Childhood Type 2 Diabetes is on the rise.

Of course that's the teachers faults, and parents asking the school to monitor their child's intake of sugar is way out of line. The parents ought to follow their kids around school all day in order to enforce their wishes for raising their own children. That's realistic.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 07:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are sooo right Eleanore. It's criminal for parents to send their children to "most" public schools.

Funny isn't it how myths get started. Thanks for puncturing the myth of sugar and hyper activity.

acoustic, I know your tactic of throwing a bunch of crap on the wall to see if any sticks.

For your information, Catholic schools are "private schools"...not public. Parents who send their children there pay and expect them to be well taught...and they appreciate the fact there are rules of dress and conduct...including school uniforms.

One other thing acoustic. Obesity began to rise when most public schools dropped PE as an important part of the program. The facts are that most kids don't get nearly enough exercise. Additionally, most cities used to have summer sports programs...now dropped because of budgets...and the possibility of lawsuits. No one even thought of such things when I was growing up. My friends and I were always busy...doing something active.

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blue moon
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From: U.K
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posted March 13, 2008 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
There was far less processed food about when I was a kid. I don't know about anyone else, I must be about 20 years older than everyone else accept AG. I didn't realise vegetables were such a burning issue of political oppression, just goes to show.

Bed time here, so I'm off, play nicely please, children.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 07:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah Blue Moon, you and acoustic are ancient.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 13, 2008 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
For your information, Catholic schools are "private schools"...not public. Parents who send their children there pay and expect them to be well taught...and they appreciate the fact there are rules of dress and conduct...including school uniforms

How is that materially different than a parent who expects the school to crack down on sweets? Are parents not allowed any expectation simply because the school is public?

I agree that kids aren't getting enough exercise. It's interesting that you fault the schools for dropping PE. It's interesting because you blame schools for that much like parents in Connecticut might blame schools for peddling Skittles. Is it ok to blame for one contributing factor of Diabetes/obesity and not another?

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Eleanore
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From: Okinawa, Japan
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posted March 13, 2008 08:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
One other thing acoustic. Obesity began to rise when most public schools dropped PE as an important part of the program. The facts are that most kids don't get nearly enough exercise. Additionally, most cities used to have summer sports programs...now dropped because of budgets...and the possibility of lawsuits. No one even thought of such things when I was growing up. My friends and I were always busy...doing something active.

Jwhop.

I do agree that junk food and processed foods aren't the healthiest. But where do parents come in? Likewise with fitness. How many kids get regular exercise? Studies show very few. Yes, childhood obesity is on the rise. Obesity in general is on the rise. Hey, let's just make it illegal for ALL adults to access questionable food, too. After all, they clearly can't make the right food choices, either. Then let's mandate physical fitness programs for everyone. And with the dream of socialist healthcare some people have, this kind of thing likely makes sense to them. You won't have to pay for your own healthcare anymore so of course you have little to no choice in what you can do with your body, either. I'm flabbergasted that people can whine for years about safety regulations but will willingly submit their bodies to government control.

I don't mind my kid having ice cream after dinner now and again. He has a regularly healthy diet and I don't expect someone else to take care of that for me. Everything in moderation, after all. I just don't agree that the government should be able to tell you every little thing you can and can't do. When did people give up the right to self-regulation or to raising their own kids?

This is such a diversionary tactic it's almost unbelievable. Ignore all the other viable complaints that can be made about today's schools. Let's just focus on the candy.


I don't see what our ages have to do with this discussion. Either way, I'm pretty sure jwhop has us all beat. I do, however, see that generally only children need to have nannies or the like because they're unable to take care of themselves. Or, at least, generally in the past.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 13, 2008 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And with the dream of socialist healthcare some people have, this kind of thing likely makes sense to them. You won't have to pay for your own healthcare anymore so of course you have little to no choice in what you can do with your body, either.

You think that nations with socialized healthcare aren't free to do as they like with their bodies? Maybe we need to recruit more French and Norwegian to this board.

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Eleanore
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From: Okinawa, Japan
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posted March 13, 2008 08:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Have you heard about the latest plan the Japanese have cranked out to deal with "obesity"?


*********
Japan to crack down on overweight people
Date Posted: 2008-03-05

The Japanese government is implementing a program called ‘The Metabolic Syndrome’ to improve health monitoring, and says it will penalize communities who don’t get with the program.
Officials call The Metabolic Syndrome a sickness for those who gain weight, are 40~74 years of age, and whose waistlines are more than 85cm for men and 90cm for women. If people fail to get medical examinations, people’s special health checks or special health check advice, beginning in 2012 the government will impose penalties on cities, towns and villages, passing on a higher burden for health insurance financial penalties. The government says health costs are rising because people aren’t taking proper care of themselves.
Okinawa municipalities are scrambling to begin free medical examinations. Health examinations for The Metabolic Syndrome will begin in April, with nine communities actually offering them free. Others, citing budget constraints, will charge ¥500~1,000 for the examinations.
Free examinations will be given by Naha, Itoman, Tomigusuku, Miyakojima and Haebaru Cities, Yaeso, Nishihara and Yonabaru Towns, and Tarama Village. Kadena Town, Nago City, Nanjo City, Ishigaki City, Higashi Village an Zamami Village say they’re still trying to decide whether to charge for the examinations, or administer them free.

*************

Healthcare in Japan


*************

They're not even entirely government (ie, tax) funded but they're heading down that road already.

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jwhop
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posted March 13, 2008 09:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That's right Eleanore, everything in moderation...foods, sweets, snacks and interspaced with adequate exercise and that's the path to healty children.

It would also be helpful if schools hadn't dropped...for the most part...home economics which included cooking from scratch and good meal planning.

Right again, there are some who are inclined to turn themselves..and their children over to government control. Perfect little slaves.

Problems with socialist healthcare include using the system to penalize behavior the little socialist planners don't like. By penalize, I mean denying treatment.

Not only that but the socialist healthcare systems are going broke and there's long waiting lists just to see a GP, let alone a specialist.

I'm not into turning my healtcare over to a bunch of brain dead government geeks who have bankrupted social security, Medicare and everything else they've touched over the years. They aren't intellectually fit to tell anyone what to do about anything at all.

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Mannu
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posted March 13, 2008 10:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah, I hear many in UK die waiting more than one hour in ER rooms if they go thru universal health care. And the waiting period is months to see a specialist.

I think I value freedom. Freedom to choose. Yikes, does it mean I am a rightist

I guess a country must have all kinds of options. Especially a large country like US.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 13, 2008 11:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yep Mannu, you are definitely turning into a right wing conservative.

Welcome to the vast right wing conspiracy. Your secret decoder ring and next weeks talking points are on the way.

Btw, I too saw the new regulations for patients waiting...stacked up..in ambulances for not more than 1 hour before they get into line to wait again in the emergency rooms for treatment in Britain. Hell of a way to run a healthcare system.

Oh, and in other parts of the British system, they're trying to get waiting times to see a physician down under 6 weeks. I'm sure that's a relief to the sickies in Britain.

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Eleanore
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posted March 14, 2008 12:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yup, Mannu and jwhop. I have some good friends who until recently were living in England and the horror stories abound. Routine stuff is not always so bad (although the waits are still too long) but emergency care or serious illnesses? You're gambling with your health over there.

Oh, and I totally agree about home economics, too. I was lucky to have a grandma who was a great cook and crafty kind of lady and a mom who could stretch a dollar miles. But I elected to take home ec anyway. People have asked me how I learned to cook and plan meals, to sew, to budget, etc. Well, I think both were contributors along with lots of practice. But I know adults who can't figure out how to work a recipe ... who screw up boxed mac and cheese ... let alone sit down and plan their meals for the week. Then they wonder how they end up wasting so much $$ every month eating out or buying "crap" and consequently gaining weight. People who have no idea how to do crafts with their kids because they've never done that sort of thing. And let's not get started on finances or taking care of their homes. It's so "anti-feminist" to teach home ec and yet I think all kids could benefit from the course, especially if their parents are actively involved in their learning and activities. But I feel like an alien bringing this up to some people.

quote:
I'm not into turning my healtcare over to a bunch of brain dead government geeks who have bankrupted social security, Medicare and everything else they've touched over the years. They aren't intellectually fit to tell anyone what to do about anything at all.

Seriously! How can anyone think that they'll do a better job with healthcare? How is that possible when they've proven themselves to be, time and again, inept? I think there is a grave misconceptcion that all people who aren't decidedly left-leaning are somehow pro-government or agree with all their idiotic decisions. But who votes for more and more "social" programs which are really extra taxes and more regulations on what we can and can't do ... programs ultimately run by a bunch of bureaucrats who manage to foul up everything they get their greedy little fingers into? And this is supposed to be progress?

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blue moon
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posted March 14, 2008 03:42 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for blue moon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Oh, don't believe everything everyone tells you, in person or print. Especially when they come out of the mouths of politicians. Not that anyone would rely on dubious anecdotes to argue their policies.

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Eleanore
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posted March 14, 2008 04:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Assuming you're speaking about what I wrote as I haven't read anyone else provide an anecdote, blue moon ... there's a reason I was addressing Jwhop and Mannu specifically. Which is, knowing that they understand what I'm talking about already, they presumably have their own resources and sources of information that lead them there. Sharing 1 simple anecdote in this situation does not in anyway comprise anyone's whole position on the issue, nor can I see how that would even be suggested.

Anyway, is there anything you'd care to share about this with us?

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