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Author Topic:   Saddam's Salesmen
jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've often maintained the best friend terrorists and murderous dictators have on earth are leftists...both in and out of the Congress of the United States.

The three leftist morons detailed in this story are by no means the beginning or end of leftist duplicity.

Let's recap what this socialist leftist dominated Congress has attempted to do.

* Immediately withdraw all US forces from Iraq...leaving Iraq unable to defend itself from internal and external terrorists and terrorist supporting nations...namely Iran and Syria. They're totally unconcerned about the slaughter which would ensue. They were similarly unconcerned when they forced the withdrawal of US forces from Vietnam and about 2.5 million Vietnamese and Cambodians were slaughtered by North Vietnamese and Cambodian communists...even though they were warned beforehand that would be the result of withdrawal. They've been warned this time too but their 2 socialist leftist Presidential candidates are vying over whom would withdraw US forces the quickest.

* Cut off funding for our military forces in Iraq. You know funding for things like bullets, like body armor, like fuel for tanks, personnel carriers, jet aircraft, missiles and the entire range of supplies needed to defend both themselves and Iraqi citizens against terrorists trying to kill them.

* Halt listening in on terrorist conversations where plans may be discussed as to when and where the next attack on America is coming from. Wouldn't want to violate terrorists rights to privacy, now would we? Most of the rest of us didn't realize terrorists based in foreign countries have US civil rights to privacy in their communications.

* Give terrorists captured on the battlefield. US citizen civil rights by trying them in United States courts of law. No nation in history has ever even contemplated anything like these leftist morons attempted.

* Calling US military forces cold blooded murderers of innocent Iraqi citizens. Thanks John Murtha D PA and this before there was so much as an investigation of the details. The information was passed on from a terrorist to a US so called news "reporter", wasn't checked before they ran the story and no mention of the terrorist connection of the "source" was in the so called "news story".

* Calling US military forces "terrorists". Those who terrorize women and children in the night...looking for terrorists at their homes in Iraq. Thanks John Traitor Kerry D MA. You're the very same traitor to the United States you've always been.

* Comparing US military forces to the "gulag guards" of the Soviet Union. Comparing them to Hitler's Nazi SS storm troopers and comparing them to the communist murderers of Pol Pot. Thanks Dick Durbin D IL

This isn't the full range of leftist socialist lunacy they've proposed or statements in support of terrorists and against US military forces these socialist leftist democrats have made but it does hit some of the high spots.

There's an article on this forum talking about liberal insanity. The article misstates whom is insane. It's "leftist insanity" and it's alive and well in the leftist dominated Congress of the United States. there's a reason this leftist socialist democrat party is called the "Party of Retreat and Defeat". They've earned the name.

Saddam's Salesmen
By Ben Johnson
FrontPageMagazine.com | Thursday, March 27, 2008

“If being used means that we’re highlighting the suffering of Iraqi children, or any children, then yes, we don’t mind being used.” – Rep. James McDermott, D-WA, on his 2002 trip to Iraq, financed by Saddam Hussein.
We’ve long contended the terrorists could not buy better representation than the Democratic Left gives them for free. We never knew how right we were.

The media revealed last night that Saddam Hussein personally funded the trip of three Democratic Congressmen to Iraq on the eve of the war that led to his ouster. Saddam’s Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS) reportedly bribed an American Muslim activist with two million barrels of oil to arrange the fall 2002 trip for left-wing Congressmen Jim McDermott, D-WA; David Bonior, D-MI; and Mike Thompson, D-CA.

David Horowitz and I thoroughly chronicled the event in our new book, Party of Defeat. On September 29, 2002, the ignominious trio appeared on ABC’s This Week with George Stephanopoulos, via satellite hookup from foreign soil, to extol the truthfulness of Saddam Hussein, decry the already weakened sanctions imposed by the United Nations, and call President Bush a liar bent on war. David Bonior – who long served as House Democratic Whip, the second-highest ranking post in the House of Representatives – laid the blame squarely on the United States of America. Bonior denounced the regimen of multilateral sanctions, already weakened by the Oil for Food program, as “barbaric” and “horrific.” He backed this up with anecdotal evidence gleaned from the group’s well-supervised tour of Iraqi hospitals. Worse, the U.S. had been “trying to push and dictate” Iraq, namely by requiring its dictator verify his compliance with the cease-fire that ended the first Gulf War and the 17 UN resolutions he was currently defying. Although Saddam Hussein had frustrated all previous weapons inspections, Bonior blithely announced that he would now allow inspectors the “unrestricted” autonomy “to look anywhere.” (Of course, the inspectors’ job was not to play hide-and-seek with Iraq’s prewar WMD cache; it was to verify that he had destroyed all WMDs, as he had agreed to do as a precondition of peace in 1991.) Rep. James McDermott echoed that none of the arms imbroglio was the Iraqi regime’s fault, anyway, as “Iraq did not drive the inspectors out; we took them out.” Again, the United States was blaming the victim and punishing innocent children for her own misdeeds. When pressed about believing the promises of a murderous international pariah, McDermott said, “I think you have to take the Iraqis at their face value,” but he offered no such quarter to the commander-in-chief of the U.S. military. “I think the president would mislead the American people,” he declared.

On the eve of the war, three sitting U.S. Congressmen treated Saddam Hussein as President Bush’s moral superior.

The Iraqi media multiplied the propaganda value of their visit. The Iraq Satellite Channel reported that the three were scheduled to “visit hospitals to see the suffering caused by the unjust embargo.” Yet the three expressed no regrets for acting as Saddam’s stooges. Jim McDermott told CNN’s Jane Arraf, “If being used means that we’re highlighting the suffering of Iraqi children, or any children, then yes, we don’t mind being used.”

Unholy Alliance, Meet the Party of Defeat

We now know they were indeed being used by a hostile leader with an anti-American agenda. They were also doing the bidding of a domestic fifth column inside the U.S. Islamist movement. The Associated Press has reported that federal officials have indicted Michigan Muslim activist Muthanna al-Hanooti for “conspiracy to act as an unregistered agent of a foreign government, illegally purchasing Iraqi oil, and lying to authorities.” For seven years, Al-Hanooti worked for the Detroit-area Muslim charity Life for Relief and Development. Investigators say for the first three of those years, he moonlighted for Saddam Hussein’s Iraqi Intelligence Service (IIS). According to the Detroit Free Press, al-Hanooti is also, coincidentally, “former head of the Michigan branch of the Council on American Islamic Relations.” He is current president of Focus on American and Arab Interests and Relations. After his stint with Saddam, al-Hanooti went on to become a paid lobbyist for the Iraqi Islamic Party, whose “philosophy is based on the Islamic Shari’a”and which has praised the “heroic Iraqi resistance.” That such a man could operate smoothly in the U.S. Islamist movement speaks volumes about its radicalism.

The feds assert that al-Hanooti earned his money compiling lists of Congressmen favorable to lifting the sanctions against the Hussein regime. This confirms Charles Duelfer’s finding that Saddam Hussein plotted to get UN sanctions lifted, so that he could resume his relentless pursuit of WMDs. To underscore the ineffectiveness of those sanctions, Saddam paid al-Hanooti two million barrels of oil diverted from the Oil for Food program, which he serially abused for his personal aggrandizement and to influence foreign policymakers.

Useful Idiots from Central Casting

What is remarkable about Bonior, McDermott, and Thompson is that apparently no bribe was necessary to procure their services; their ideology placed them at odds with their own nation’s security.

The three had acted on this ideology before and after the 2002 junket to Baghdad. Following the first attack on the World Trace Center, Vermont Representative, and self-professed socialist, Bernie Sanders introduced an amendment to cut a minimum of 10 percent of the funding of each intelligence agency ten times. David Bonior then Democratic Whip, voted for the Sanders amendment all 10 times. Bonior did all he could to end a 1990 FBI program to cultivate intelligence sources within the Muslim community...the kind of sources that could have prevented 9/11, or informed on al-Hanooti earlier. As a reward, Bonior received thousands of dollars in campaign contributions from Sami al-Arian.

Bonior left the Congress shortly thereafter, but “Baghdad Jim” stayed to carry on the good fight against his own country during the ensuing war. When U.S. forces captured Saddam Hussein, McDermott accused his miliary of complicity in a Republican war sham, saying they could have nabbed the Tikriti tyrant “a long time ago if the wanted.” After the New York Times and The Washington Post published articles disclosing the existence of classified anti-terrorism programs – the warrantless wiretapping of al-Qaeda partisans and the rendition of those captured, respectively – McDermott hailed the security breaches for “breaking through the administration’s secrecy.” Again, he blamed his own commander-in-chief, accusing President Bush of trying to impose “censorship”...of classified war techniques.

The Irrelevant Fallout

The history and ideological mania of the principals has long been known; only the official Iraqi sponsorship remained a mystery. Last night’s revelation leads to two conclusions:

First, the Democratic Party and its apologists will emphasize that the three Congressmen had no idea Saddam Hussein had financed their trip. They will point out it had been cleared by the appropriate offices of the U.S. government, shifting the blame to Bush administration bureaucracy. McDermott’s office has maintained the Washington State Democrat “thought the trip was put on by a Seattle church,”and a spokesman said the Congressman went only to observe “the plight of Iraqi children.” Rep. Thompson’s office has echoed that he had no knowledge of improprieties in the underwriting of his subversive sojourn.

It is almost certainly true that the three had no such knowledge. Justice Department spokesman Dean Boyd has stated that investigators “have no information whatsoever” to that effect. However, the government must make an exhaustive investigation to ascertain that this is the case.

Second, what the Left will obscure is the irrefutable fact that their prior knowledge is immaterial. The three knew beforehand that they were traveling to the capital of a nation, which had for years regularly fired on U.S. aircraft, as part of a tightly controlled tour of a dictatorship on the brink of defying its way into full-blown war with their constituents. And they shilled for the man who authorized the torture of rape of his children as though he had only their best interests at heart and as though he were prevented from expressing his immense love for his people only by heartless Republicans. After all, they deny health care to Americans; why wouldn’t they deny it to Iraqis?

In other words, when Third World dictators need someone to run interference, they know who to contact: leftist Democrats. Bonior, McDermott, and Thompson received nothing for their troubles, but al-Hanooti’s more than earned his bounty – yet as we note in Party of Defeat, “moderate” voices of the Democratic Party spoke not a word of condemnation. Democratic Minority Leader and 2004 presidential hopeful Dick Gephardt remarked merely that “every member has to reach...their own conclusion.” [sic.] When asked if he would condemn McDermott’s statements, conservative Texas Democrat and then-Congressman Martin Frost replied with a terse “No.”

When North Korean extremists need to stall for time to develop weapons for nuclear blackmail, they call Jimmy Carter. By 2004, the Axis of Evil nations endorsed John Kerry. On election eve, Osama bin Laden released a tape strongly influenced by Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, and his rhetoric since then has hewed closely to the Left’s party line – earning him an increasingly positive assessment from its membership.

Today, even as American troops are succeeding militarily via the surge strategy proposed by John McCain, the Democratic Left’s leadership demands unilateral withdrawal that would not merely maintain a thuggish and repressive, if stabilizing, status quo; it would vacate the battlefield, create a failed state, and give the perpetrators of 9/11 a new national base of operations.

But now, just as six years ago, certain leftists “don’t mind being used” by those with a thirst for massive bloodletting.
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=E7FBC302-128F-466E-A8AB-760B725660 C9

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Xodian
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From: Canada
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posted March 27, 2008 01:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*Sigh* Jwhop... Frontpagemag.com? ... I expected something far better from your personally. Its hard not to drop on the ground and roll around laughing seeing the top banner of this site and the "Jihad Watch" button.

Ah well...

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AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4415
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 01:49 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
First, the Democratic Party and its apologists will emphasize that the three Congressmen had no idea Saddam Hussein had financed their trip.

quote:
It is almost certainly true that the three had no such knowledge.

Conspiracy theory, Jwhop? If we stick with the salient facts, the Congressmen were duped. Your author wants more of an investigation, but I think it's highly plausible that they investigated the hell out of Saddam-bought trip for our Congressmen. That's not the kind of thing you just discover and then leave alone.

quote:
On election eve, Osama bin Laden released a tape strongly influenced by Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11, and his rhetoric since then has hewed closely to the Left’s party line – earning him an increasingly positive assessment from its membership.

You'd have to be a numbskull to believe this crap.

quote:
But now, just as six years ago, certain leftists “don’t mind being used” by those with a thirst for massive bloodletting.

Piece of work this author is...

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 02:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't say a word about conspiracy acoustic...not one word.

The right words are "leftist insanity"

This leftist socialist Congress has been parroting the propaganda of terrorists for more than 4 years acoustic. You'd have to be blind, deaf, totally ignorant or deliberately lying to say you haven't seen it or heard it. demoscats are marching in lockstep with terrorists...including bin Laden.

Paraphrasing here"

"Our military has "lost the war in Iraq". So says Nancy Pee-losi D, John Murtha D and Harry Reid D. They, their leftist butt boys and girls in the press along with the terrorists have been trying to convince America of that lie but the truth is far different. Terrorists are getting their sorry as$es shot off in Iraq every time they engage US military forces.

OK acoustic, I give you a choice. Either these demoscat numbskulls are acting as dupes...who don't mind being dupes or acoustic these leftist socialists are pulling for an American defeat in Iraq and ARE the "useful idiots" of terrorists.

Your choice and I don't give a damn which you choose. Neither has any business in the Congress of the United States.

Heavy sigh eh Xodian. I'll just bet you do a lot of that. Sighing may have been effective for you in the past...and perhaps it will in the future but it just doesn't cut it with me. I've raised 3 daughters and I'm immune.

This story has been all over the press..not just FrontPage. Now Xodian, if you don't like references to terrorists or jihadists go find them, tell them to knock it the hell off and such references will disappear.

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Xodian
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posted March 27, 2008 02:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And pasting up articles co-relating to a site which could very well be one of the most bias-ridden propaganda heapload on the net is? And well wouldn't that just render your arguments about leftist backed sources of of the web, a prime example of hypocracy?

Do keep in mind that you gotta practice what you preach Jwhop. Please do provide me other sources that have presented the same article.

Edit: Because thus far a simple google search has only brought up extreme conservitive sites, citing this article in their midst.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 02:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Not the same article Xodian. But the facts of what these 3 leftist lunatics did is spread all across the media...as it was relayed in the FP article.

You don't like FrontPage? I wonder why Xodian. Could it be you disagree with their and my and most of the civilized nations of the world's definition of terrorists and terrorism?

You're welcome to your opinion of FrontPage Xodian and I don't really care.

The leftist bias in the MSM is fact. The leftist socialist tendencies of demoscat members of Congress IS a fact.

That these leftists have been pulling for an American defeat in Iraq IS fact.

That these morons have been parroting the propaganda of terrorists IS fact.

That terrorists, when asked, support demoscat policies and despise Bush Gee, I wonder why. bin Laden even attempted to influence the 1994 elections...and failed.

Hypocrisy Xodian is saying one thing and doing another. I believe I've been extremely consistent. You must be talking about those leftist morons...who "say" they support the troops..but want to see them defeated in Iraq...and never miss an opportunity to impugne their character, their intelligence, their resolve to win and their integrity.

Now Xodian, that's hypocrisy.

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Xodian
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posted March 27, 2008 03:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wouldn't that place the current administration in the same loop hole ? Their constant disagreement and looped statements on the progress in Iraq left countless Americans frustrated and mislead... Right from the begining.

If I were to place a right on tag of looped information, then there is more then enough evidence there to say that the current admistration had no idea just how much of a mess the situation in Iraq would turn into. Would that automatically mean that the current administration doesn't wanna admit that they jumped the gun on planning out something more solid ?

Sorry Jwhop. This little post will cost you a demerit point. After three strikes, I usually just don't bother reading at all until the person can prove they should have the proverbial right to point fingers .

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted March 27, 2008 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
This was in an article two days ago...without FPM's spin on it. (Here) I thought about posting it myself. It figures that Jwhop, and the media he reads would try to exploit it for political gain. It's all they ever try to do.

Like I said, I think this FPM article went way too far, and is akin to a conspiracy theory.

quote:
The leftist bias in the MSM is fact. The leftist socialist tendencies of demoscat members of Congress IS a fact.

That these leftists have been pulling for an American defeat in Iraq IS fact.

That these morons have been parroting the propaganda of terrorists IS fact.


None of these are fact quite frankly.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 03:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Sorry Xodian, you're not going to get away with making the move on dot org argument with me. "Bush lied, people died" isn't going to cut it.

Bush and other administration officials acted on the best intelligence they had. That's not lying and it's not deliberately misstating facts.

When George Tenet slams his hand down on the table at a meeting with Bush and says..."it's a slam dunk Mr President, Saddam has weapons of mass destruction" Presidents don't throw Directors of Central Intelligence out of their offices. They listen to their intelligence briefings and take action accordingly...except for you Xodian and of course morons at move on, daily kos, democrat underground and other leftist extremists who were attempting to shield Saddam from getting what he so richly deserved. In this case an appointment with a rope.

US: Saddam Paid for Lawmakers' Iraq Trip

Mar 26 11:13 PM US/Eastern
By MATT APUZZO
Associated Press Writer http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D8VLH37G2&show_article=1

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 03:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You must have been camping out in leftist fantasyLand and missed it acoustic. Leftist Congressional members have done exactly what I said they did.

Now, with growing support by the public to finish the job in Iraq, these leftist loons are in big trouble for trying to embrace defeat in Iraq. We'll see what that turns into "politically" over the coming months. There's certainly a clear difference between McCain and either of the "withdraw now" candidates.

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Xodian
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posted March 27, 2008 03:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Acoustic:

Yes I did read over the whole argument presented and its all akin to "what I think you are" basis rather then facts which as you said, really rubs many the wrong way. But yes the trip was financed by Saddam and many didn't know about it.

Its not a matter of left or right wing handling of it all; Its just what it is. Drawing any other fragmented connections out of it makes anyone sound as bad as the 9/11 conspiricy theorists.

Jwhop:

I am not saying he lied. I am saying he should have announced how his decision was wrongfully influenced under the pressure of "sudden action" rather then playing it all off as "we are going at it good and we are gonna come home any day now." I mean shouldn't you be the one pointing this little diddy out rather then me?

And I say this as a critic of bungled Military Strategies and not some pre-defined left-winger or right winger.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wrong again Xodian. Bush has never...repeat never said "we're coming home any day now" or anything remotely like that.

What Bush said from the beginning and is still saying is that..."troops will be withdrawn from Iraq and circumstances on the ground in Iraq permit"

He's also said over and over that US forces will be withdrawn "when the job is finished". Further Xodian, Bush went on and described what a job finished in Iraq would look like.

Are you being deliberately disingenous here Xodian. What I've just said is sure as hell not a secret. In fact, what Bush has said is exactly what enrages the leftist defeatist socialist loons.

***edit

Bush is not one to embarrass members of his administration...even if Tenet was a hold over from the Clinton administration. Bush thanked Tenet for his service, some kind remarks and I think, a medal and sent him on his way.

I respect that. Bush didn't try to lay off the intelligence failures on Tenet. In fact Xodian, the entire intelligence world around the globe believed Saddam had WMD

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Mannu
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From: always here and no where
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posted March 27, 2008 03:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I didn't read any of the posts in details.

when I heard the 30 second clip on the media - I thought Saddam must have been badly hit by those UN sanctions.

All the more reasons to believe Bush has misjudged this war.

The UN (like any other organizations) may be corrupt but it does get the job done at times.


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Xodian
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posted March 27, 2008 03:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop those are just fragments bits from his speech and you know it . So would that account for an extrapolation that he was sending mixed messages in his speeches by saying that the war is won but hasn't been won? Lol!

That's the same manner of extrapolation that this article is trying to do and thus it can't be taken into any factual consideration.

Strike one stays .

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 04:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bush has been emphatic on finishing the job in Iraq. Further Xodian, you damn well know it. Bush has given NO mixed signals as to when US forces would be withdrawn from Iraq. Bush has resisted every attempt to put a timetable in effect and further enraged the leftist socialist loons who have been trying to surrender Iraq for at least the last 3 years.

You're drilling a dry hole here Xodian.

The UN has a collective IQ in single digits. They couldn't find their own as$es with both hands and can't even define terrorist or terrorism. Incredible

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ghanima81
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posted March 27, 2008 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ghanima81     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hope I lose my marbles so much someday, that I can post the kind of rediculously biased bs you smear this board with, j...

Honestly, it must be awesome to be old and not give a crap about what you say!!

I can't stop laughing!!

I love hypocricy!!

"How seldom we weigh our neighbors in the same balance as ourselves. " ~Thomas à Kempis

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AcousticGod
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posted March 27, 2008 04:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
What Bush said from the beginning and is still saying is that..."troops will be withdrawn from Iraq and circumstances on the ground in Iraq permit"

The word from the White House during many segments of the war was that troops could be coming home by... yadda yadda yadda. Every time the public voiced its displeasure at the war the White House would throw them a bone of possibility.

Jwhop, I see you're still clinging to only some of the definitions of lying without embracing all of the definitions which include:

3. an inaccurate or false statement.

6. to express what is false; convey a false impression.

There doesn't need to be an intent to deceive to qualify something as a lie. If people say, "Bush lied, people died," then technically they'd be correct whether you like it or not.

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Xodian
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posted March 27, 2008 04:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Should I even begin with the state of Iraqi Military and how the sanctions had bled em dry ? Heck they didn't even have their old fleet of Mig 25s ready for combat. Just goes to show the Sanction did work. And yes, the UNs Food for oil program totally went the wrong way and that can't be denied but the sanctions did their job. And don't say its because of the first Gulf War that landed em at that weakend point because I can verily say that Iraq could have easily built up its forces if the sanctions weren't placed .

So you should be thanking the UN there Jwhop.

The Bush administration played down every major combat senerio in Iraq as a minor hit when infact airstrikes (which usually are ment as a last resort tactic) were used quite frequently in most conflicts through out the region. The so called "Leftists" (which I would just refer to as the opposing party) has the right to call upon the validity of the war since the current administration played each major conflict down except for the obvious campaigns. Secrecy and confidentiality is one thing but people do have the right to know the tactics being involved in some of these conflicts.

And you know I agree that its an impossibility to leave Iraq now until a stable government can be placed and that is why I do not agree with the "textbook Leftist" agenda. However... The budget on this war has ballooned astronomically and I gotta say some of the equipment being sent to Iraq (i.e. combat drones for airstrikes) makes no tactical sense. Since when was anti-air such a problem in Iraq in the first place? So there definately needs to be a deeper probing in the budget concerning the Iraq war.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted March 27, 2008 04:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Each and every time Bush talked about a drawdown of US military forces...notice, I said "drawdown" not withdrawal of US military forces. Each time a drawdown was talked about...each and every time, it was clearly stated the drawdown would be conditioned on what was going on in Iraq...at that time..and also conditioned on what military commanders on the ground in Iraq thought about troop levels to continue operations there.

So desperate to pin something on Bush. But distortions of reality and distortions of Bush speeches and answers to press questions don't get you any cookies and milk.

Hi Ghani nice to see you. Are you making cracks about my age?

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ghanima81
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posted March 27, 2008 04:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ghanima81     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nahh...

old: adjective; having lived or existed as specified with relation to younger or newer persons or things.

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jwhop
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posted March 27, 2008 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hahaha Xodian, so you want to play war planner, war strategist now? Everyone wants to play General. Drones have been immensely useful in Iraq. Where are you reading this nonsense?

Couldn't disagree with you more. There are many things which should not be released to the press...unless you want them to appear on the front pages of the Treason Times in the morning....and tip off your enemy as to what the hell you're doing, what the hell you're planning to do and where the hell you plan to do it. God, what nonsense.

Saddam had most of his remaining high performance aircraft flown to Iran in the Gulf War, principally because F-15s and F-16s were routinely swatting them out of the sky or destroying them on the ground in hardened shelters. He never got those back

Well, the sanctions did enrich some people and that's for sure. Some UN diplomats and other high ranking UN personnel, some British, French and German politicians and business owners...even one oil company in Texas...whose owner was prosecuted and jailed. But, no UN personnel were ever prosecuted for their taking of Saddam's bribes. Further, the UN ripped off 1.5% of the oil for food money to run the operation. The operation which included the sale of defective medicines, substandard food and anything else those on the list could dig up to dump on the Iraqi people. Nice people those UN types...who really "care".

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So, now you're trying to pass yourself off as a "newbe" Ghani?

Sometimes it's hard to tell. If you were a horse, I'd ask to check your teeth.

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Mannu
Knowflake

Posts: 45
From: always here and no where
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Mannu     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop , you were just discriminated based on your age LOL


>>>Saddam had most of his remaining high performance aircraft flown to Iran in the Gulf War, principally because F-15s and F-16s were routinely swatting them out of the sky or destroying them on the ground in hardened shelters. He never got those back

The Shiates and sunnis cannot stand each other. And you are saying Saddam trusted the Iranians enough? You got to be kidding man.

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Xodian
Moderator

Posts: 275
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 04:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-5742330/Combat-drones-clouds-on-the.html

They are usually used for reconissance but more and more of them were quickly brought in for quick conversion to combat roles Mr. Jwhop ; A job which the already present Gunship squadron can easily handle. If the Gunship squadraon would have been reduced in number with regards to the drone's increase in numbers then I would have said, "Alright there is no mismanagement here." However, there has been no change in the Gunship Squadron's numbers.

The increase use of airstrikes as a tactic is no secret Jwhop. Even the top U.S. commanders admitted to their increase in its use:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/01/16/AR2008011604148.html

And finally, didn't I just say the problem with the whole "food for oil" program? It couldn't be carried out more terribly and I admitted to that. I wasn't denying that it failed.

However, those who could legally be procecuted were procecuted accordingly.

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Xodian
Moderator

Posts: 275
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 27, 2008 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And BTW: The whole "random" swatting of fighters happened during major operations within the FIRST gulf war . Actually the major incident of interception happened in the first night of the Gulf War where a Foxbat had the only one recorded air-to-air kill on an F-A/18.

In the second Gulf War, Saddam just disregarded his airforce all togather but there were Six Mig 25s uncovered during a digging after Saddam's fall.

Still not enough to give them any real edge.

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