posted April 04, 2008 07:15 PM            

This is the system Hillary and Obama want the US to change the best health care system on earth for?

Pensioner, 76, forced to pull out own teeth after 12 NHS dentists refuse to treat her
By OLINKA KOSTER -4th April 2008

A grandmother performed her own tooth extractions in despair after being turned away by 12 dentists.

Elizabeth Green, 76, was in agony with two front teeth and after a fruitless search for an NHS practitioner, resorted to DIY.

Her case is the latest of many to highlight the dwindling availability of NHS dental treatment.

Elizabeth Green resorted to pulling her own teeth out after failing to find an NHS dentist

Mrs Green, a former chef, said it was made plain to her that if she could pay for treatment she would have been welcomed.

"I feel so angry," she said. "I've worked all my life and paid taxes and then when I need help I can't get it."

Last night she explained how she took matters into her own hands.

"Two of my front teeth started getting loose and became more and more painful.

"My gum became very sore so I contacted a dentist that I had been to in the past, but they said they were not taking on new patients.

"The problem was getting worse so I started ringing round the dentists in the Yellow Pages.

"I phoned about 12 but they all said they same thing - 'Sorry, we are not taking on any new NHS patients'.

"I also phoned a dental helpline but they couldn't offer a solution either. The teeth got more and more painful and one evening I couldn't take it any longer so I moved the teeth back and forwards and twisted them and eventually they came out."

Mrs Green, a mother-of-five and grandmother of 11, who lives in Winchester, has taken her complaint to her local Liberal Democrat parliamentary candidate, Martin Tod.

He described her case as "a shocking story and an indictment of the current situation".

Mrs Green, whose late husband George served in the Army for more than 30 years, has now joined the waiting list for an NHS dentist in nearby Andover.

Since Labour introduced a new contract for dentists in 2006, more than 1,000 practices have stopped providing NHS care and 500,000 fewer patients see NHS dentists.

Dentists complain the new system forces them to provide "conveyor belt care" and to "drill and fill" to meet meaningless targets.

Last year, a great grandmother from Scarborough told how she pulled a tooth with a pair of pliers from her husband's toolbox after drinking beer as an anaesthetic.

Valerie Holsworth, 67, has repeated the operation six times now.

"It is just a matter of tugging and wiggling until the root comes loose,", she said.

In October, a survey of patients and dentists exposed a case in Lancashire in which a man had to "remove 14 teeth using pliers".

Helen Clanchy, spokesman for the Hampshire Primary Care Trust, said: "We are very concerned to hear that this patient felt they had no option but to take this kind of drastic action.

"We have a dental helpline that is able to offer patients who are unable or have chosen not to register with an NHS dentist, sameday emergency treatment."
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/news.html?in_article_id=555589&in_page_id=1770&ct=5

posted April 05, 2008 04:11 AM            

So unfortunately this example is suggesting the opposite of what you are trying to prove.

Sorry.

The political point behind the article is the anger that dentistry is no longer easily available as 'socialised healthcare'. It is possible but there are long waiting lists, etc.

They could easily see a dentist if they wanted to but ~ they refuse as they don't want to pay, they don't see why they should. They've paid their taxes, etc. A standard argument. I particularly like the Daily Mail touch of mentioning his army record -> he's served his country and as such is entitled to free healthcare, he shouldn't have to pay.

If you see an N.H.S article in a British paper there is a 99.9% chance the criticism is aimed at the government and its management. The Daily Mail hates New Labour and will do anything it can to make it look incompetent.

Any politician that tried to get elected on a mandate of abolishing the N.H.S would stand zero chance. It doesn't reflect what people want at all.

Whether 'socialised healthcare' is a viable option for the U.S I wouldn't like to say ~ there is a big difference in poplulation size for starters and many different factors between the two nations.

If you look hard enough (in the Brit press) you will find stories that get rabid about 'we don't want to be like the U.S' and will quote horror stories about little old ladies in San Francisco or wherever, but it won't really prove any point. One size doesn't fit all.

posted April 05, 2008 06:31 AM              

-----------------------------------------------------------------

here are some comparisons..

my sister had a normal delivery in a local Redmond hospital. all expenses covered by employee benefits since my brother in law works for Microsoft.
they checked in at 10 A.M. , had the baby by 3 P.M., stayed the night and were out the next day.

in 2001 this bill worked out to Rs. 400000.
i dont know the currency rates for that year so i cant translate it to dollars exactly , but if i pick the average rate of a dollar to 45 rupees, it comes to approx 8900 dollars.

whoa
now for the comparisons

cost of having a baby , in a top notch private Indian hospital , top of the line amenities, natural delivery followed by a 2 day hospital stay

Rs. 10000, 250 dollars

cost of having a baby , in India in a government hospital,
irrespective of Caste, Religion, Employer or insurance coverage ,
natural delivery , irrespective of number of days spent in the hospital , with basic necessary amenities

Rs. ZERO.

the Indian government has its own healthcare facilities that provide free treatment , for any disease , to all citizens, no questions asked about employer or insurance coverage.

i have had personal experience of such health facilities in Mumbai and other big metros as well as towns that have a population of less than 500000, and fall in tier 2 category.

i cannot say for sure, in the absence of personal experience about smaller towns and villages where most of our population lives.

but since all medical students are required to work at such govt. hospitals for atleast 5 years before they can start their own practice , i do know medical students who have served in remote villages.

not that they r happy about being shipped off to impoverished rural areas, but becoz its compulsory , their accounts of the facilities are reliable.

except for cancer or Aids or the like, all major and minor diseases all treated by the govt. facilities, free of charge.
but if the hopital pharmacy does not have the medication u need, u have to procure it on ur own .

posted April 05, 2008 06:45 AM              

all such low or minimum wage workers have ID cards, that are to be shown at these hospitals to get the treatment they WANT, not NEED .
these cards extend to their parents, spouse, children and any other dependents.

such hospitals exist in addition to the other free Govt. health facilities.

that is not to say everyone queues up outside a free govt facility.
the upper middle class and sometimes the middle class, due to seriousness of the disease or lack of faith in free healthcare, usually end up at a private doctors clinic or a private hospital.
but those who cant afford the doctors fees , go to see the ones in a govt hospital, who are remunerated by the Govt.
the treatment prescribed to such patients is decided by the doctor , on the basis of what the patient wants and needs,
not what the Doctor or the patients Employer or the patients Insurance company , THINK is NECESSARY .
the tests conducted are also whatever the doctor feels ,he needs to arrive at a diagnosis, not what the patients Employer or HMO approve of.

of late there have been a lot of protests by the doctors who are employed by the Govt, for pay raises and the like.
sure if u comapare them to those who r making a ton thru lucrative private practices , it looks unfair.

universal healthcare is a minefiled.
until a few years ago i assumed the US has universal healthcare since i knew UK did.
and i knew UK was a tiny island compared to the superpower that loans millions of dollars to our countrys development and poverty improvement programmes.
our universal healthcare however does have the shadow of not being as good as a personal treatment procured at inflated rates.

not that i know anyone who DIED as a result of delayed or denied treatment, or because their HMO sucked their lives outta them.
i doubt how long it will last though.

posted April 07, 2008 01:43 PM            

There have been a string of these types of stories which involve everything from long waiting lists just to see a primary care physician..forget about a specialist...to lack of services which have been and still are being paid for by citizens.

I could see a dentist this afternoon...if I wanted to do so. I could see a primary care physician this afternoon or at the outside tomorrow morning.

If I needed an operation, it could be and probably would be scheduled and done the next day or day after depending on how serious the condition is. In an emergency, an operation would be performed within hours of diagnosis.

Now, if you and if Canadians and if Cubans and if all you who have socialist health care systems are satisfied and happy then that's fine with me.