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Author Topic:   Palestanian "Moderates" Plan Poison Attack
jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 19, 2008 09:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
IDF Elite Duvdevan Force Kills Poison Terror Plot Mastermind
by Hana Levi Julian

(IsraelNN.com) IDF soldiers tracked down and killed the mastermind of a plot to carry out a terrorist attack through the use of poison, after surrounding his house in the Balata neighborhood of Shechem Thursday morning.

The terror attack planned by Ka’abi involved slipping a slow-acting poison powder, virtually undetectable, into the food of diners at the “Grill Express” restaurant in Ramat Gan, where he had managed to recruit two Arab kitchen workers as new operatives.

The poison would have taken at least four hours to work, thus maximizing the number of people who could be hurt and killed before the attack might come to light. A suicide bombing attack, possibly simultaneous, was also in the works when the plot was discovered and stopped by Israeli intelligence agents.

Hani Ka’abi headed a terrorist cell belonging to the Al Aksa Martyrs Brigades organization, linked to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas’s Fatah faction.

Hosni Tzalag, Ka’abi’s deputy was arrested during the operation by the elite IDF undercover Duvdevan unit. The soldiers recovered two rifles, a number of ammunition magazines and several bulletproof vests at Ka’abi’s home. A third terrorist was also taken into custody as well.

Balata Remains a Terrorist Stronghold in Fatah-land. US-trained Palestinian Authority police officers deployed in Shechem came under attack by unidentified terrorists this week when the city’s governor tried to visit the Balata.

Police hastily withdrew the city’s administrator, Jamal Muhaisen out of the neighborhood, but were unable to save his car, which local Arabs torched and burned to the ground.

Last year, Israel agreed to allow the PA to deploy several hundred police officers who received advanced military training by US Army officers at a Jericho training base.

The Bush administration is banking on the PA force being able to prove to Israel that it can maintain law and order in Shechem – known in Judea and Samaria as “terrorist central” – and control terrorism. The PA is required to halt all terrorism against Israel emanating from its territories as part of its obligations under the American Roadmap plan.

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/125931

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Xodian
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posted April 19, 2008 03:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And thus they are doing exactly that. As the article says, there are Palestinian counter-terrorists being trained for regional security and by the looks of it, they are doing their job well.

And Jwhop, the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade identies itself closely to Arafat rather then Abbas (an obviously wrongful connection made there.) Abbas did state that the AMB was part of Fatah but he did so under the claim that Fatah is a polical party founded under the basis of Arafat and yes, this is the militant wing of the party much like the difference between the moderate Hamas and the Militant Hamas. The assasination attempt at Jamal al-Mouhsen should be quite the indicator of that; He just happens to be Abbas' close colleauge.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 20, 2008 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Between these groups there is no difference of opinion regarding Israel's right to exist.

The fighting between these groups is over political power.

I take exception to your assertion so called Palestinians were driven off their land inside the new nation of Israel. The fact is that the Israelis begged them to stay, told them they would not be harmed, told them they would be full citizens of Israel. The Israelis made good on those promises.

Those who left believing the combined armies of 5 Arab nations would crush the new state of Israel, kill the Jews and then they could return to pick their bones lost their bet.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted April 20, 2008 05:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
The fact is that the Israelis begged them to stay, told them they would not be harmed, told them they would be full citizens of Israel. The Israelis made good on those promises.

Those who left believing the combined armies of 5 Arab nations would crush the new state of Israel, kill the Jews and then they could return to pick their bones lost their bet.


Thats very true. I am not denying questionable practices done by both sides through the years, lord knows there are many. And Israel, like all nations, is not a model of international morality and as a nation acts on its own self interest. BUT in those actions Israel has gone out of its way (more so than any other nation would) in order to accommodate the Palestinian people already living there.

For everyone claiming Israel is an evil oppressor here is some food for thought: The land was bought fair and square from the British...the Brits did in fact take it from the Ottomans yes, but there was no such thing as an independent state of Palestine....ever... thus the most one can claim is that this land belongs to Egypt/Jordan/Syria...and only those nations thus have the right to be fighting for it...which they did....which they lost...thus to the victor go the spoils...the "oppressed" Palestinians are technically citizens of those nations. The fact that there are talks going on and they have a pretty autonomous plot (Gaza/West Bank) is progress...continuous acts of terror by self righteous bas*ards are most certainly not...in any sense of the word...

Nothing hurts the Palestinian people more than those acts of terror.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted April 20, 2008 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And Jwhop, the Al-Aqsa Martyr Brigade identies itself closely to Arafat rather then Abbas (an obviously wrongful connection made there.)

Thats also true...Abbas is such a figurehead after the death of Arafat because the people do not seem him as a fighter. He is a smart man and a good politician and someone who could in fact bring the Palestinians what they want...problem is he doesn't do it how they want...

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 20, 2008 10:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yeah BUD, we had this same discussion about 18 months to 2 years ago but Xodian wasn't here then...I believe.

Most of the ideas about Israel which are planted firmly in heads are false in one way or the other.

Who can forget the phony stories about the so called massacre in a Palestinian camp..Jenin?

And who can forget the doctored photos of Israeli air strikes on so called ambulances by so called news photographers.

And who can forget the staged mock battles between Palestinians and the IDF? Mock battles filmed by major news services who knew it was not real but reported it as a straight news story. They called that Pallywood.

Where ever one looks, there's an element of fraud, outright lies, propaganda and a concerted effort to make Israel the villains of the story.

It seems to me that Israel has withdrawn settlers from disputed territory, some very much against their will. What was their reward for keeping their word and acting in good faith?

Well, it's no secret now that Hamas has used the vacated territory to bombard Israeli cities and towns from that vacated area with thousands of rocket attacks.

They are not to be trusted an inch to keep their word.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted April 21, 2008 01:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
And who can forget the doctored photos of Israeli air strikes on so called ambulances by so called news photographers.

That was down right disgraceful! I am surprised people still take anyone seriously after that incident...you have Holocaust deniers despite the fact that there is hard core proof but when in this case photos were PROVEN to be false people just close their eyes to it...thats just sad

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Xodian
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posted April 21, 2008 07:54 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
I take exception to your assertion so called Palestinians were driven off their land inside the new nation of Israel. The fact is that the Israelis begged them to stay, told them they would not be harmed, told them they would be full citizens of Israel. The Israelis made good on those promises.

Ahhhhh, no. There are plenty of records that claim otherwise including papers from the Israeli Archives as well. There was a significant portion of population that was driven off their lands due to the impending invasion only to be promised that they will be allowed to return back once the waris over. However, that didn't happen.

Israel has its right to exist, make no mistake about that but so does the Palestinian state and the significant number of population the West Bank supports. And as I have said continously before, once there is an agreed upon border division in the region, we can finally see an end to this way too prolonged conflict.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted April 21, 2008 04:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
srael has its right to exist, make no mistake about that but so does the Palestinian state and the significant number of population the West Bank supports.

I second that. But it would be hard for two states to exist when one of the leaderships is a terrorist organization

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Xodian
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posted April 21, 2008 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As I said in a previous thread, there will no longer be a need for militants to exist when a confirmed state has been bordered upon. If it turns into a political inbalance and conflict between the parties then that's an issue that shall be decided upon with a new election once Hamas confirms a more moderate stance and let the moderates speak. If they don't well the war-weary Palestinians already have independent counter-terrorists and police being trained for the job of keeping the peace in the region. If things escilate then that's a seperate UN issue upon which the security council can deal with accordingly.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 21, 2008 08:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Listen Xodian, the broken record routine doesn't work with me. You can repeat your mantra until hell freezes over and it won't alter the facts on the ground.

There are NO MODERATES in charge of anything within the Palestinian territory...if there really are any real moderates at all.

This is a story about the so called moderate wing of Abbas...the so called "moderates" who were planning to poison Israeli civilians as they ate.

When are you going to wise up and call these butchers what they are? They're not militants. They're terrorists.

Every unguided rocket fired into an Israeli city to kill Israeli civilians is a separate war crime. Get it? Israeli civilians are not legitmate targets for acts of war.

You're totally nuts if you think Israel is going to submit their safety and security to the bungling, incompetent, corrupt, boobs at the UN.

Perhaps you've already forgotten Xodian but I haven't. UN forces were supposed to keep Hezbollah from rearming after Israel withdrew from Lebanon. Hezbollah rearmed right under their noses and with their knowledge. Those UN forces were complicit and acting with Hezbollah..those French forces.

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Eleanore
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From: Okinawa, Japan
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posted April 21, 2008 08:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just a question, Xodian or anybody, please. Who outnumbers who? The moderates or the terrorists? I mean, really, percentage wise.

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BornUnderDioscuri
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posted April 21, 2008 09:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BornUnderDioscuri     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In my theory there are probably more moderates than terrorists but the moderates are silenced because they do not believe they can get anywhere and because they are afraid.

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Xodian
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posted April 22, 2008 08:50 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jwhop, didn't I just say that AMB just attacked Jamal al-Mouhsen who just happens to be Abbas' colleauge? Am I to assume that Abbas who theoretically controls the AMB wanted to nuff out his own political advisor? AMB follows upon the ideals of Arafat Jwhop, not Abbas. I can't stress that enough.

The case senerio with Hezbullah is a different senerio all togather. I definately agree that with Hezbullah did by firing unguided rockets was a War Crime indeed. However, Hezbullah cites that their prolonged dispute over the region is because of the occupation of the Sheeba Farms; A location whose improper border defination is a direct result of the French, Lebanese and Syrian political powers to properly dictate a border. If there is a resolution reached there, Hezbullah will no longer need to exist or has an excuse to continue its attacks. Isn't that the baseline argument that I have been continuing about on and on? That is why I say that the sooner we get to the point of a two-state deal that Israel and Palestine agree with, the sooner we can curb these conflicts down.

Eleanore:

If I were to take a appox. view on the situation (taking the Palestinian population into account along with political powers whose views aren't being heard) its 65% for the moderates. The 35% militants just so happen to have outside influences and obviously a stronghold in the region not through political popularity but rather a need for security in the region which IMO is dismal.

and thus I insert my previous argument here once again.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 22, 2008 09:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
More blithering blather from the Palestinian terrorists. Putting forth a so called peace plan Israel will not and cannot accept. Phased destruction of Israel.

Notice, this so called peace plan does not include the Palestinian's recognition of Israel's right to exist.

Notice, this is a so called 10 year peace plan during which time Hamas and every other terrorist organization will further arm themselves to attack Israel at the time of their choosing.

Of course the blithering idiot Carter thinks he's had a breakthrough. It's more like Carter had a bowel movement.

There is talk in the US Congress of revoking Carter's passport..we should do so...and also defunding the Carter Center..which we also should do.

Who does this moron think he is running around the world acting like he's in charge of US foreign policy. Who he really is..is the worst US President on the 20th Century. We couldn't get rid of Carter fast enough to suit most Americans.

All Carter managed to do was give Palestinian terrorists more cover for their terrorist activities...and of course the added stature of negotiating with a former US President.

Carter negotiating Israel's phased destruction
Ex-president gave legitimacy to old Hamas plan to annihilate Jewish state
Posted: April 21, 2008
4:44 pm Eastern
By Aaron Klein


JERUSALEM – Former president Jimmy Carter's "breakthrough" Hamas truce deal is actually nothing new. The terror group has been floating around the exact plan for two years now and will explain to anyone who asks that their 10-year truce offer is part of a strategy aimed at destroying Israel.

Returning from four days of meetings with leaders of Hamas, a triumphant Carter announced today in Jerusalem his mediation efforts were successful – Hamas agreed to a 10-year truce in exchange for Israel withdrawing to what is known as the pre-1967 borders.

"There's no doubt that both the Arab world and the Palestinians, including Hamas, will accept Israel's right to live in peace within the 1967 borders," Carter said, briefing reporters.

Hamas chieftain Khaled Meshaal affirmed from exile in Syria, "We agree to a [Palestinian] state on pre-67 borders, with Jerusalem as its capital with genuine sovereignty without settlements but without recognizing Israel."

"We have offered a truce if Israel withdraws to the 1967 borders, a truce of 10 years," Meshaal said.

Pre-1967 borders refers to an Israeli withdrawal from eastern Jerusalem, including the Temple Mount and Old City; from the strategic, mountainous Golan Heights, which looks down on Israeli population centers and was twice used by Syria to attack Israel; and from the West Bank, which borders Jerusalem and is within rocket-range of Tel Aviv and Israel's international airport.

A 1967 report by the U.S. Joint Chiefs of Staff argued in a memorandum to the Defense Department that to ensure its security, Israel must retain control of much of the Golan and "the prominent high ground [of the West Bank] running north-south." The report has since been upheld by over 100 retired U.S. generals and admirals.

Hamas spokesman Fawdi Barhoum clarified that in order for any truce to take effect, Israel would need to evacuate "every centimeter of the West Bank and every centimeter of east Jerusalem."

No Israeli-Palestinian peace plans, even those drafted by extreme leftist Israeli parties such as Meretz, call for the Jewish state to evacuate the entire West Bank, citing security concerns for retaining some of the territory.

Hamas spokesman in Gaza Sami Abu Zuhri said that as precondition for any Israeli-Hamas truce, the Jewish state must allow "all Palestinian refugees" to "return" to Israel.

The "right of return" for millions of "Palestinian refugees" is a formula Israeli officials across the political spectrum warn is code for Israel's destruction by flooding the Jewish state with millions of Muslim Arabs, thereby changing its demographics.

So in other words, Carter's truce boils down to Israel withdrawing to truncated, indefensible borders and accepting millions of foreign Arabs who will destroy Israel from within in exchange for a promise by Hamas to refrain from terror attacks.

But Carter's great achievement is nothing new. Hamas has been floating this exact truce proposal for some time now.

In January 2007, Ismail Haniyeh, then prime minister of the Hamas-led Palestinian government, announced Hamas is willing to accept a temporary Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza Strip and eastern sections of Jerusalem in exchange for a 10-year truce with Israel.

He explained, though, Hamas would not give up "liberating" all of Palestine.

"We are with liberating any inch of Palestine, but we will not close the door for the next generation, because the weak don't always stay weak, and the strong won't stay strong," Haniyeh said in a televised address.

Working to destroy

At the same time Haniyeh's truce plan was outlined, Hamad al-Ruqb, a top Hamas spokesman, told WND that Hamas was working to destroy the entire state of Israel.

"Hamas will be able to free most of the territories of the historical Palestine occupied in 1948 (the state of Israel) and bring back the Palestinian refugees to their lands and houses. This step will be followed by a struggle to release the rest of the lands that will remain under occupation," al-Ruqb said.

Al-Raqb said Hamas has a 10-year plan to defeat Israel that includes setting up a massive army comprised of all Palestinian factions that would train for a period of 10 years.

Just as Meshaal did today regarding Carter's mediation efforts, Haniyeh used the term "hudna" to describe a truce with Israel.

"Hudna" is a Quranic term used by the Islamic figure Muhammad when he declared a 10-year "hudna" with the Quraysh tribe that controlled Mecca. Two years later, Muhammad acquired enough troops and arms to conquer Mecca. He, thus, abrogated the hudna eight years early, waging war and defeating the Quraysh tribe.

Haniyeh's 2007 call for a 10-year truce with Israel in exchange for the West Bank, Gaza and parts of Jerusalem came exactly one year after WND conducted a well-circulated exclusive interview in which a top Hamas leader said his group would eventually make public a "peace initiative" offering to trade strategic land with Israel, cease attempts to capture parts of Jerusalem and sign a 10-year renewable cease-fire with the Jewish state.

But the Hamas leader said the plan, which he justified using Islamic tradition, is a temporary machination to ease international and U.S. hostility toward his group.

"We will be ready for a long interim agreement based on a period of cease-fire that can go to 10 years like it was done by the prophet Muhammad with the enemies of the Muslims. During this period we will build our state on the strong basis of honor and with an honest administration," the top Hamas leader said.

The Hamas leader said his group will not abandon its goal of destroying Israel.

"When I speak about a long cease-fire and a temporary agreement, it means that we do not recognize the right of the state of the occupation on our lands, but we will accept its existence temporarily," said the leader.

The leader insisted the policies are based on the formulation Hamas will not be able to defeat Israel in the near future, but he said his group is confident it ultimately will be "victorious."

"I do not see the Palestinian people and Islamic nation succeeding to liberate this blessed land of Palestine in the very near future," he said. "This is an Islamic land and the Jews are invited to live in Palestine and the Muslims will guarantee their safety and honor. ... But we will never give up our right for the whole of Palestine. We should be realistic to admit that the mission for the liberation of Palestine will pass on to the coming generations."

Today, Meshaal did not address whether his terrorist group would alter its charter, which calls for the murder of Jews and destruction of Israel.

Hamas' Zuhri told WND any Palestinian state in territories evacuated by Israel is "temporary until all our lands are returned" – indicating Hamas has not giving up its plans to annihilate Israel.

Carter's breakthrough today wasn't in formulating a new truce plan. Rather, the former president succeeded in giving massive exposure and legitimacy to a Hamas plan concocted years ago openly aimed at destroying Israel in phases.

http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62214

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Xodian
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posted April 22, 2008 09:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Once again we have a lot of flawed assumptions here.

a) Meshaal may have proposed the idea of going back to the pre-67 border but that doesn't means they are not willing to negotiate further on it. Though there will have to be an independent body that needs to be set up at the Golan heights. But obviously even I think its not a viable thought to expect to return back to the 67 border configuration.

b) Liberating all of Palestine does not mean occupying Israel. Once there is a unilateral agreement with all the major parties involved, we will hae a set idea of a Palestinian state. Ergo, Liberated Palestine. If he tries to play hardball after that, his own people will remove him out of power once they see stability in the region.

c) Comeon... You're taking Al-Raqb's word on this? The man who clearly cannot even stand the sight of the Fatah party let alone try to orginize a military coupe with them? Lol! Its laugable. He'll most likely be jailed.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 22, 2008 11:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
When your negotiating partner's opening position is that they have the right to kill you, destroy your country and drive you into the sea, then Xodian, you have no negotiating partner at all.

Anyone attempting to make me such a deal is going to get a bullet between his eyes.

The Palestinians consider the land of the nation of Israel to be Palestinian lands and you damned well know that Xodian.

Just in case you missed it on the other thread Xodian, I want you to name..by name and position within Hamas those "moderates" within Hamas who have renounced terrorism and have agreed that the nation of Israel has the right to exist.

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Happy Dragon
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posted April 23, 2008 09:16 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
some articles by israeli and palestinian journalists ..
~ http://www.opendemocracy.net/conflict-debate_97/debate.jsp ~
~ http://www.opendemocracy.net/democracy-debate_97/article_1414.jsp ~
~ http://www.opendemocracy.net/media-debate_97/article_1428.jsp ~

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted April 24, 2008 04:04 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Jimmy Carter met with "moderates".

Terrorists' actions condemned
Spokeswoman says Hamas' actions 'speak louder than words'
Posted: April 23, 2008
10:50 pm Eastern

The Hamas terrorist organization promised former President Jimmy Carter it was willing to work toward peace, then promptly launched a spree of murders, according to a clearly upset spokeswoman for the White House.

"I think actions speak louder than words, and we remain very concerned about the situation," spokeswoman Dana Perino told WND today.

She was responding to a question from Les Kinsolving, WND's correspondent at the White House.

He asked, "The AP in Kuwait quotes Secretary of State [Condoleezza] Rice as saying, 'The United States is not going to deal with Hamas. And we had certainly told President Carter that we did not think meeting with Hamas was going to help.' And my question: Since the result of this telling was that Mr. Carter proceeded directly to violate this U.S. policy and meet with these terrorists, what is President Bush prepared to do to put an end to this one-man defiance of our policy which so gratified the terrorists?"

"Well, former President Carter is a private citizen, and he made a decision to not comply with what the State Department asked him to do," she said.

But the issue goes further than just asking Carter to comply with U.S. policy, she noted.

"What I think the president would focus on is, if you go back to what reportedly Hamas said to former President Carter, that they were willing to take these steps for peace, that the very next day, that they went ahead and murdered many people at the Gaza crossing," she said.

"That's why Secretary Rice was in the region," she said.

Published reports say Hamas claimed responsibility for a Gaza attack by suicide bombers in which they drove three explosives-laden vehicles and detonated two of them.

Three bombers were killed and 13 Israeli soldiers wounded in the attack. Reports say the attack happened between the times of Carter's first and second meetings with Hamas.

In a second question, Kinsolving asked, "If the president, as our nation's chief law enforcer, fails to order Mr. Carter's passport revoked, how many more people like Carter may want to plot U.S. policy in this regard, do you imagine?"

" I don't know, you'll have to take a national survey," she said.

A Reuters report elaborated on the warning to Carter, and his subsequent decision to ignore it.

The report said U.S. Assistant Secretary of State David Welch, the top U.S. diplomat in the region, had warned Carter before the former president left on his trip to the Middle East.

"We counseled President Carter against going to the region and particularly against having contact with Hamas," Rice was quoted saying.

Officials at the Carter Center in Atlanta denied that. "Perhaps inadvertently, she is continuing to make a statement that is not true," the organization told Reuters.

Rice was insistent. "The United States is not going to deal with Hamas and we certainly told President Carter that we did not think that meeting with Hamas was going to help the Palestinians," Rice said.

Carter eventually spent hours meeting with top Hamas leaders in Damascus, and they told him they are willing to live next to Israel, but they told him the group never would recognize the Jewish state.
http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=62425

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