posted May 20, 2008 11:39 AM            

The Bottom Line A little essay I put together. Enjoy.

The following composition is an essay that I wrote form my Anthropology, Psychology and Sociology class this year in which we had to address an issue and develop a thesis on it. This isn't a bad piece, in my humble opinion, and with my exam earlier today, I decided to post this - both for my own entertainment and to maybe inform people. Comments are always cool...

How Did Adolf Hitler’s Childhood and Youth Influence His Development?
By: Brian Jansen

Adolf Hitler is one of the most infamous figures in world history. Hitler, considered by many to be a man of pure evil, was considered to be both a brilliant strategist and a charismatic leader. He was nearly responsible for the eradication of an entire race, and came close to victory in one of the most gruesome wars in recorded history. But despite the man’s actions, there’s an intriguing aspect about him that few can ignore. When Canadian Prime Minister William Lyon Mackenzie King met with Hitler, he returned home confident that Hitler was "a slow man, incapable of harming another human being." Over the next several years, Hitler proved King's opinion completely groundless by nearly destroying an entire continent and gaining the total obedience of his people, plunging the world into chaos. Many still wonder how he was capable of controlling the people of his country, as well as why he was the man that he was. Perhaps that reason can be traced to his childhood and youth. Although there are very few comprehensive studies on the subject, available data would suggest that Adolf Hitler’s actions and beliefs later in life came as an indirect result of his childhood, his teenage years spent in Vienna, and his brief service as a soldier in World War I.

To understand the motivations of a madman, it makes sense to look at his family, especially his parents. Hitler’s father was Alois Hitler Shickelgruber, the son of an unmarried forty-two year old woman named Anna Maria Shickelgruber. Alois was a womanizer. He was married three times and had an illegitimate child before he was even married. He had several affairs during these unions as well, including one with a servant working at the inn where Alois and his first wife resided. When his first wife died, Alois married the servant whom he had an affair with, and then began another affair with a different servant, one Clara Polzl. “Alois’ second wife also died, this time of tuberculosis, and six months later, Alois married Clara.” (Redlich, 7) When all was said and done, Alois was the father of eight children, although several died soon after birth or while still a child. He was believed to be an alcoholic, though to his credit he was able to hide this quite well. He was frequently away during Adolf’s childhood, and reports suggest that he was physically and emotionally abusive to the child. “In fact, it has been said that Alois didn’t particularly care for any of his children, maintaining an indifference towards them.” (Redlich, 8)

Adolf Hitler’s mother was Clara Hitler, a poor girl who worked at the inn where Alois lived with his first and second wives. By all accounts, Clara was a loving and caring mother who, despite a poor education, had a great appreciation for art and culture. She encouraged Hitler to take piano lessons and was often believed to spoil her many children. “Clara was twenty-three years younger than her husband, and he was not afraid to demonstrate his dominance over her.” (Redlich, 9) However, there is a story in her marriage with Alois that is rarely told. Historians believe that Clara was actually Alois Hitler’s own niece - at the very least officially, if not biologically. The identity of Alois Hitler’s father was never determined, but was officially listed as Johann Georg Hiedler. “Clara was related to Hiedler, which meant that Alois and Clara had to obtain a papal dispensation before they could wed.” (abelard.org) Furthermore, for the first several years of their marriage, she still referred to him as “uncle.” Whether or not the two were actually related, it still establishes a reason to believe that either parent could have some type of psychological problem.

But perhaps the most widely discussed and engaging aspect of Adolf Hitler’s family is the biological identity of his grandfather. Hitler’s grandmother never revealed the true identity of her son’s father, and many still speculate that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was Jewish. In fact, while serving in the German army, Adolf confided his fears in a superior officer, and frequently ordered investigations by his Schutzstaffel (SS) and private lawyers.

“The results of these investigations were never concrete, and Hitler destroyed the majority of documents that detailed his youth and family.” (Redlich, 12) As such, these rumours will likely never be confirmed nor denied, which is unfortunate. If in fact, Hitler’s grandfather had been Jewish, it would have established a possible origin for Adolf’s blind hatred of a race as he himself feared that his grandmother had been impregnated by a Jew while working for him as a servant.

Adolf (or Adolph) Hitler was born on April 20, 1889 at an inn in Braunau, a town that served as a border between Austria and Bavaria. No data of his birth remains, but family members described the boy as a weakly and frail child. There is only one known baby picture of Adolf, and information about his early childhood is very sketchy. There were no abnormalities recorded in Hitler’s birth, but this can be chalked up to the fact that he was never closely examined by a doctor. “Some believe, however, that he suffered from monorchism (the absence of a testicle) or hypospadia (a condition where the opening of the urethra is in the wrong place).” (Redlich, 13) Such a condition could cause insecurities in a child, and could have easily affected the youth. “Unfortunately, there is no record of any bedwetting problems (a common indicator of problems later in life), although it was reported that Hitler had rage attacks and fits during his early childhood and throughout puberty.” (Redlich, 14) Adolf’s life was rather peaceful until 1893 when Alois Hitler retired to spend more time at home. Adolf was frequently disobedient and often received beatings from his father, occurrences that could possibly lead to psychological trauma later in life. Some felt that Alois was a particularly cruel human being, while others claimed that his threats were worse than his actual punishments. “Whatever the case, Adolf was humiliated by his father’s actions, and feared Alois’ scorn more than actual physical punishment.” (Redlich, 15) For the most part, there are only isolated instances of antisocial behaviour on the part of Adolf. “The only obviously deviant behaviour that young Hitler took part in was shooting rats, something he took great joy in, and a definite sign of disturbed behaviour.” (abelard.org)

“Adolf Hitler had excellent grades in grade school and was considered to be an extremely intelligent boy, so it came as a great surprise that Hitler failed miserably in secondary school.” (Redlich, 15) With the exception of history, Adolf hated the majority of his classes and did as little as possible. While Hitler himself insisted that his poor performance was a protest against his father, this is highly unlikely as his failing grades continued well after Alois Hitler died in 1903. Adolf delighted in telling the story of how he was able to quit school. According to his writings, Hitler came down with a serious illness and had to leave school for a time. His doctor even insisted that Adolf was suffering from advanced tuberculosis (completely untrue), and stories were told about the youth contracting Spurious Pulmonary Disease and measles. “Others believe that Adolf had Unhold Syndrome, which resulted in a drastic personality change.” (Redlich, 17-18) Again, though, these reports are difficult to confirm or deny. These illnesses, whether real or imagined, established Adolf as a man capable of manipulating others to his advantage, a tactic that he would use often later in life.

He was even able to manipulate his mother into allowing him to stay home from school so that he could apply to an art school. This stage of his youth, however, is best described by a specific example of cruelty to animals. “According to several of Hitler’s childhood friends, Adolf once captured a billy goat and wedged a piece of wood in its mouth, then proceeding to urinate into the goat’s open mouth (unfortunately for him, though, the goat was still able to bite, causing some injury).” (Redlich, 18) If nothing else, this story serves as a chilling example of unstable behaviour. At worst, this event establishes Hitler as a neurotic and deranged person.

In 1908, Hitler left his hometown, leaving for Vienna. Despite failing to achieve entrance into the Vienna Academy of Fine Arts on two occasions, Adolf was sure that he could make a living there. The truth was far from that, and Hitler would be broke less than a year later. Most historians believe that it was his time in Vienna that was the source of his anti-Semitism. Vienna was, in fact, a hotbed of casual racism and anti-Semitism. The streets were littered by periodicals and pamphlets that detailed the problems caused by the “International Jew.” “Adolf was at first disgusted by the violent anti-Jewish sentiment, but gradually came to accept it and even utilize it.” (Bullock, 8) This acceptance can likely be traced back to two figures in Vienna. “The first was Karl Lueger, the leader of the Christian Social Party and an active anti-Semite, and the second was Richard Wagner. Wagner was a poet and composer, and more importantly, an anti-Semite.” (Hamann, 236) The question one must ask is whether Adolf was ever sincere about his beliefs or only used them to achieve the approval of his peers. The facts would indicate that Adolf only adopted this stance for acceptance, but eventually grew to believe the conspiracies being spouted by some of Vienna’s elite. Adolf painted Jews as despicable and immoral human beings responsible for many of society’s ills. “He was convinced that they were responsible for the rampant prostitution in Vienna, and often claimed that male Jews were rapists.” (Bullock, 12) That Hitler actually believed much of these propaganda is evidence that Hitler was at least slightly neurotic or suffered from some form of psychosis.

Hitler’s political and religious fanaticism finally began to fully take over during Hitler’s service to the German army during World War I. “By all accounts, Adolf was a courageous soldier, winning two Iron Cross awards for his service.” (Redlich, 40) For the most part, Adolf served as a runner to carry messages between headquarters and the trenches, meaning that he saw little action. But as the war came to a close, Hitler was promoted to corporal and saw a small amount of action in the front lines. His service in the military, more than anything else, gave him the chance to learn strategy and warfare tactics firsthand - and the result would end up being devastating during World War II. The war also had another, much more serious effect on Hitler. As the war came to a close, Hitler became the victim of a British mustard gas attack and was left unable to open his eyes. Hitler claimed that he was physically blinded, but there is no record of any actual damage done to his eyes. Furthermore, Hitler contended that Germany’s surrender in WWI worsened his condition, blinding him with rage directed at German Jews. “It was at this point when Adolf Hitler decided to become active in politics, thereby changing the world forever.” (Redlich, 41-43) And even though Adolf’s vision recovered, his contempt for the Jews would never cease.

There are several conclusions that researchers have come to based on the life of Adolf Hitler, and in fact there seem to be a large number of specific events and people that support these conclusions. The most infamous of these people was the Hitler family doctor. The man was Jewish, and there are many who suggest that Adolf’s hatred of Jews can be traced back to the death of his mother while under the treatment of this doctor. “Clara Hitler passed away in 1907 after a long and painful battle with breast cancer, and some believe that Adolf blamed his mother’s suffering on the doctor.” (Redlich, 22) There is also the story that Hitler’s paternal grandfather was a Jew and Adolf feared that her grandmother had been impregnated by him through force.

Also of note are Hitler’s relationships with women. Hitler was very awkward around
woman and never had a serious girlfriend until early into his twenties. His first girlfriend also happened to be his own niece, Geli Raubal. Geli died before anything happened between the two. “Officially she committed suicide, but there is suspicion that Hitler murdered her after he grew bored with her.” (abelard.org) Again, these hardly seem like the actions of a mentally sound individual, suggesting that something may have been very wrong with Hitler’s development.

The most telling sign of psychological problems could be Adolf Hitler’s cruel treatment of animals. There have been several documented instances (including two here) of Hitler mistreating animals for his own pleasure. It was said that he once beat a dog brutally solely for the purpose of impressing a girlfriend. (abelard.org) It would seem that, in retrospect, Hitler displayed a number of warning signs that would indicate an unstable mind.

“Psychologist Erik Erikson believed that the most significant phase of a human’s development comes between the ages of twelve and eighteen.” (psychology.about.com) Adolf Hitler, as evidenced by a wide variety of official documents and anecdotes, simply failed to mature as a human being during this stage of growth. His awkward demeanour, poor temperament, antisocial tendencies and violent behaviour as a child and teenager may have been a sign of the terrible events to come. One must keep in mind, however, that hindsight is 20/20 and if history had played out differently, Hitler would likely have just been another depressed teenager in a dysfunctional family. As for the origins of Adolf Hitler’s anti-Semitism, research seems to show that it didn’t come about as a result of a life altering event, but rather the casual anti-Semitism of Vienna, where Hitler absorbed pamphlets and first pursued his political career. Hitler himself fabricated many of the events of his own childhood for political purposes. It would appear, though, that it was that childhood that
ultimately created an unstable human being who accepted a world of pure fantasy and was responsible for the deaths of millions.

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Works Cited

1.Bullock, Alan. Hitler: A Study In Tyranny. London: Penguin Books, 1952.

2. Erik Erikson - Eight Stages Of Human Development. http://psychology.about.com/library/weekly/aa091500a.htm

3. Flood, Charles Bracelen. Hitler: The Path To Power. Boston: Houghton Mifflin Company, 1989.

4. Halsey, William D., and Bernard Johnston. “Hitler, Adolf.” Merit Students Encyclopedia. London and New York: P.F. Collier, Inc: 1987, Vol. 8, pg. 589.

5. Hamann, Brigitte. Hitler’s Vienna: A Dictator’s Apprenticeship. New York: Oxford University Press, 1999.

6. Hoffmann, Peter. “Hitler, Adolf.” The World Book Encyclopedia. World Book, Inc: 1995, Vol. 9, pg. 264.

7. Psychology and Development of Adolph Hitler Schiklgruber, The. http://www.abelard.org/hitler/hitler.htm

posted May 20, 2008 12:43 PM              

quote:

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“The only obviously deviant behaviour that young Hitler took part in was shooting rats, something he took great joy in, and a definite sign of disturbed behaviour.”

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posted May 21, 2008 12:22 AM            

quote:

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Violence towards animals and violence towards humans go hand in hand.

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posted May 21, 2008 05:12 AM            

If you are violent towards animals, you will be violent towards people.

The bible says, "Who is faithful in small matters will be faithful in large matters,
and if you are remiss in small matters, you will be remiss in larger matters as well."

Similarly, every cruel act makes cruelty easier.

A little cruelty encourages a lot of cruelty;
lesser acts of cruelty pave the way for greater acts of cruelty.

Many sadists begin by practicing on small animals,
then "progress" to larger animals, and, then to human beings.

Just by eating meat, and taking part in the genocide of animals
for the sake of our own momentary pleasure, we are encouraging habits of cruelty.

We may not all turn into mass murderers but we certainly head in that direction,
and we contribute to the shadow of the collective unconscious,
thereby making it easier for men like Hitler to appear (and appeal) on the world stage.

posted May 22, 2008 06:04 PM            

That Hitler dealt with certain issues during his youth that may have been indicative of his warping mentality is one thing. But to point out and say, "A ha! He was cruel to animals! Go figure!" is very similar to saying, "That overweight kid is eating cake! Case closed!"

Granted, that cake may not help the child's condition. That doesn't mean, however, that the cake alone is causing his condition and that anyone who eats cake is inevitably on the path towards obesity.

Where there is smoke, there is fire and where there is fire, there is oxygen. Pluto and Hades know this well.

posted May 22, 2008 06:05 PM            

There are people who, within their spiritual quest, are destined to confront certain choices and to make decisions that would seem “unholy” by the standards of conventional thought that have often proved to miss the mark. This is not to the disadvantage of those who make these “unholy” decisions, but to the disadvantage of those who err in their thinking. For what can truly be purely “unholy” when all things have been, at the very least, once touched by God? This is not to say that I believe there is no such thing as good and evil, but that even in the purest evil there is a foundation in the highest good, however small.

This reminds me of J.R.R Tolkien’s Silmarillion. The beginning of this book is something like the Genesis story of Tolkien’s Middle Earth. Ilúvatar is the name of God in this story and in the beginning he creates the Ainur, who are analogous to the Chayot in Jewish mysticism or the Seraphim in Christian mysticism. The Ainur were the first to be made by Ilúvatar, “the Holy Ones, that were the offspring of his thought, and they were with him before aught else was made.”
Ilúvatar spoke and revealed things to them through themes of music and they soon began to make music of their own. At one point, Ilúvatar revealed to them a glorious, most powerful theme that amazed the Ainur. He then gave the Ainur the freedom to expose their powers and to decorate the theme with music of their own devices. The great music that came forth was wonderful, “went out into the Void, and it was not void.”
The music was flawless up to a point, where it came by the devices of one of the Ainur, named Melkor. “To Melkor among the Ainur had been given the greatest gifts of power and knowledge, and he had a share in all the gifts of his brethren.” In Melkor was a strong appetite to “bring into Being things of his own” and in his impatience he grew alone. Melkor’s thoughts became unlike the thoughts of the other Ainur.
He dispersed these thoughts into the music which showed forth a dissonance upon Ilúvatar’s theme that also affected the music of the other Ainur, and so Melkor’s conflict spread. “But Ilúvatar sat and hearkened until it seemed that about his throne there was a raging storm, as of dark waters that made war one upon another in an endless wrath that would not be assuaged.”
Ilúvatar then arises three times. In the first, his countenance was smiling and a new music came into the storm that was “like and yet unlike to the former theme, and it gathered power and had new beauty.” Melkor’s theme also grew and wrestled with Ilúvatar’s newer theme and Ilúvatar arose again, this time with a harsher countenance. Another theme was revealed in the midst of the tempest that was dissimilar to the previous themes. It was initially gentle and soft in its melodies,

quote:

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but it could not be quenched, and it took to itself power and profundity. And it seemed at last that there were two musics progressing at one time before the seat of Ilúvatar, and they were utterly at variance. The one was deep and wide and beautiful, but slow and blended with an immeasurable sorrow, from which its beauty chiefly came. The other had now achieved a unity of its own; but it was loud, and vain, and endlessly repeated; and it had little harmony, but rather a clamorous unison as of many trumpets braying upon a few notes. And it essayed to drown the other music by the violence of its voice, but it seemed that its most triumphant notes were taken by the other and woven into its own solemn pattern.

-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

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In the middle of all of this, Ilúvatar arises a third time with a countenance too terrifying to look upon. Raising his hands, he let forth “one chord, deeper than the Abyss, higher than the Firmament, piercing as the light of the eye of Ilúvatar” and the music stopped.

quote:

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Then Ilúvatar spoke, and he said: ‘Mighty are the Ainur, and mightiest among them is Melkor; but that he may know, and all the Ainur, that I am Ilúvatar, those things that ye have sung, I will show them forth, that ye may see what ye have done. And thou, Melkor, shalt see that no theme may be played that hath not its uttermost source in me, nor can any alter the music in my despite. For he that attempteth this shall prove but mine instrument in the devising of things more wonderful, which he himself hath not imagined.
-J.R.R. Tolkien, The Silmarillion

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posted May 22, 2008 06:07 PM            

Calmly we walk through this April's day,
Metropolitan poetry here and there,
In the park sit pauper and rentier,
The screaming children, the motor-car
Fugitive about us, running away,
Between the worker and the millionaire
Number provides all distances,
It is Nineteen Thirty-Seven now,
Many great dears are taken away,
What will become of you and me
(This is the school in which we learn...)
Besides the photo and the memory?
(...that time is the fire in which we burn.)

(This is the school in which we learn...)
What is the self amid this blaze?
What am I now that I was then
Which I shall suffer and act again,
The theodicy I wrote in my high school days
Restored all life from infancy,
The children shouting are bright as they run
(This is the school in which they learn . . .)
Ravished entirely in their passing play!
(...that time is the fire in which they burn.)

Avid its rush, that reeling blaze!
Where is my father and Eleanor?
Not where are they now, dead seven years,
But what they were then?
No more? No more?
From Nineteen-Fourteen to the present day,
Bert Spira and Rhoda consume, consume
Not where they are now (where are they now?)
But what they were then, both beautiful;

posted May 23, 2008 06:52 AM              

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

As far as Hitler being vegetarian or not, I don't think it is very relevant.

The relevant thing here is the issue of how humans see themselves as separate to other beings....whether it's their own species or other species.

Truly spiritual people, the more they awaken, will see and feel the connection between all beings- simply that all beings deserve respect. Whether that means choosing a vegetarian diet, or being careful to cause as little suffering as possible to an animal hunted purely for food, for survival- and then praying for their spirit....the point is when you become more spiritual, more "attuned", you will naturally feel a sense of respect for all creatures.

But choosing to only love animals while you hate humans, is just another result of a sense of separateness, which has to be overcome eventually.
I don't know whether Hitler fell into this category as I would need to know more, but it is possible, even if his love for animals was restricted to certain species.....
Racism.....Speciesism.......

What made Hitler do such evil?

Could it have been the warped view from which he looked out into the world with?
How did he see things?
How did he see people?

I think the problem was he didn't see people at all.

He didn't see beyond the surfaces of things.

Something prevented him from doing so.

Something blocked his sensitivity.

Something prevented him from really seeing people, from understanding them.

posted May 23, 2008 06:58 AM              

The thing we ought to be asking, is how on Earth people could be manipulated by a person like him, how people get themselves into situations where they follow orders from someone without thinking, without being able to listen to their own hearts.

How people drown out the voice of their own conscience.

It it well over time that we STOP behaving as though we are PUPPETS.

THINK for yourself.....No matter what!

Think outside of the box!

Who cares what others think?!

posted May 23, 2008 08:26 AM              

Excellent quote from it -

"I can hardly understand it myself. There must be some basic evil in me. In all men. Mass hypnosis? Hitler cultivated this evil in man. When I saw him in that movie in court, I was swept along again for a moment, in spite of myself. Funny, one sits in court feeling guilt and shame. Then Hitler appears on the screen and you want to stretch out your hand to him . . . . It's not with horns on his head or with a forked tail that the devil comes to us, you know. He comes with a captivating smile, spouting idealistic sentiments, winning one's loyalty. We cannot say that Adolf Hitler violated the German people. He seduced us."

A small point but ... NosiS mentioned Hitler's strict vegetarianism. Of course, I agree that a vegetarian diet alone is far from a one way ticket to enlightenment. On the contrary, I think fanaticism of any kind will hamper spiritual progress. Nevertheless, vegetarianism appears to assist those already attempting to awaken spiritual capacities through additional means. I believe that was Hitler's very practical reason for his chosen diet. Not for a minute do I think he was sensitive to the plight of farm animals. The man was a sadist through and through and if riping out a cow's entrails with his bare hands would have opened a chakra or two, I've no doubt he would have tried that as well. To put it in perspective, Rudolf Steiner, another European of the time but on a very different path, occasionally ate meat.

posted May 23, 2008 04:34 PM            

My little explaination of LTT's comment was in no way intended to be a comprehensive diagnosis of the human condition, or the manner in which evil takes hold of individuals and societies. If that is what you thought, then it is no wonder you would see my words as an over-simplification. But did you really think I was attempting to offer more than a fraction of what I might say on this subject? If I may be frank with you, NosiS, I think you will try to find error in whatever I write, and, if you cannot, you will (unconsciously) invent it yourself and attribute it to me. I think you are threatened by me, and you want to prove your intelligence by finding fault with my own. I'm glad to see that it is motivating you to think, but I'm not sure the thinking you're doing is especially impartial.

quote:

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One can only agree to the notion that certain forms of cruelty would only beget more cruelty. Opening up the doors of unnecessary violence on lesser life-forms is likely to create a spreading effect, like a cancer or snowball rolling downhill, towards every aspect of that person’s life.

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Well said, NosiS.

And that is all I said or tried to say.

quote:

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But to tackle these issues with a thinking that presupposes the utter expulsion of these “violent” practices to be the key to any solution is, for certain, an oversimplification of the equation that would find absolute and utter quarrel in practice.

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Indeed.

Which is why I didnt attempt to make such a claim,
despite your zealous assumption to the contrary.
I think you are so eager to find fault with me, NosiS,
that you are conjuring absurd arguments out of thin air and attributing them to me.
I dont think you do it consciously; you have enough integrity not to do that.
But, nevertheless, you are putting absurd arguments in my mouth,
and proceeding to demolish them, under the delusion that you have something on me.
Unfortuneately, what you substitute for those imaginary arguments,
are actual arguments which are only slightly less absurd themselves.

quote:

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That which makes it easier for men like Hitler to appear on the world stage is not a preposition of practice, but a preposition of motive.

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This is an oversimplification, NosiS.

And I think you mean "predisposition".

Bad habits certainly do make it easier for a man like Hitler to take hold.
You said so yourself earlier in this post, when you agreed with me.
To draw attention to the motive would suggest a depth of insight,
if you were making a correlation between motive and action,
rather than attempting to divide the one from the other.
Certainly, the practice presupposes a motive that corresponds to it.
But you cannot isolate the motive from the practice,
any more than you can isolate the practice from the motive.
If what you are attempting to diagnose here is the ultimate cause of evil,
then I would suggest that you are oversimplifying, and need to go deeper still.
What you seem intent on undertaking here is more ambitious than you realize,
and almost any answer you give will be an oversimplification.
That is why I merely tried to present a part of the story,
without pressuming to solve the mystery of evil in a single post.

The motives of evil are legion.
According to Bukowski, "There is enough treachery, hatred, violence, absurdity
in the average human being to supply any given army on any given day".
They lodge in the breast of the collective unconscious,
and we all share in them, by our natures, and according to our habits,
which, as Aristotle put it, are "a kind of second nature".
Getting at the source of evil is no small feat, but it begins by recognizing the signs,
and eliminating those superficial manifestations of evil,
which promote its continued development in the secret parts of our being.
We can all philosophize and psychologize about the ultimate source of the weeds,
but lets not seek to overlook the weeds themselves, or forget to pull them.

When you talk about delving into motives, and subterranean territories,
you should know by now that you really are preaching to the converted.
I have been explaining the subtle links between actions and motives,
and between motives and psychology, and between psychology and environment,
for years on these boards, and I've taken lots of sh-t for it.
It is indeed a complex matter, and, in my experience, all matters are mind-blowingly complex;
it is really just a question of how far down the rabbit-hole we want, and are willing, to go.

One person cuts a path, another goes a little farther, but there is always farther to go.
LTT pointed out a few of the nuances concerning the consumption of meat.
As she suggested, the intention of the meat-eater is very important.
The act is one and the same for all, but it is colored by a variety of intentions.
Despite this, I maintain that the conditions for the ethical consumption of meat are slim.
I think that it is only truly ethical under very exceptional circumstances,
and, even then, ought to be undertaken with reverence, and awareness of the sacrifice.

That is all I wish to say about this at the present moment.
Please, do not assume that it is all I could say,
or that I am under the delusion that I've just given
the definitive and final word on the cause(s) of evil in the world, lol.

posted May 25, 2008 12:35 PM              

Also I agree with most of your thoughts, but not quite all of them.

quote:

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This is not to say that I believe there is no such thing as good and evil, but that even in the purest evil there is a foundation in the highest good, however small.

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The story of the Simarilion though is inspiring.

It may be that there is indeed a greater plan.

Thats why (as David was saying yesterday in Brixton Academy )- we don't quite have the power to create our own reality in quite the way put forward by "The Secret", but we do indeed have the power to influence our own reality, and what we draw towards us.

posted May 27, 2008 08:57 PM            

I read the Silmarillion as a recommendation from Eleanore. I am very grateful and greatly indebted to her most wonderful influence.

Props to my homie.

There is so much to be said about Tolkien's works. The level of detail in his imagination is simply stunning. This work cannot be properly understood within the conventional definitions of the term "imagination". Anthroposophically, though, the term "imagination" has a much clearer insight into what Tolkien actually envisioned. Absolute genius and exceptional use of human faculties!

posted May 27, 2008 08:58 PM            

I apologize for not making my posts clearer. Truth be told, my response was not founded on the energy from your explanation but on the energy of LTT's original remark. My interest was with her position and not yours. Since you decided to interject, I took the liberty of reflecting on her remark to delve into my own experiences with vegetarianism and the thoughts that I have wrestled with within that practice. I confronted your post with antagonism to fuel my own pondering.

To be completely honest with you, I can’t read your writings without getting a sense of unusual mystery behind them. I can't know, or even guess, about what you really think/feel/believe unless you are absolutely clear about it in your posts. There are certain posters whose energy is quite easier to pick up, but yours is a bit puzzling to me. I responded to your explanation and highlighted portions of it and, yet, somehow I knew that this message wasn't really meant for you. Part of that was because I was consciously projecting my own views and ideas onto your words. Another portion was because, as I've mentioned, the one I originally wanted to converse with was LTT. Also, I notice that you sometimes set traps for people in your posts.

I went ahead and responded anyway, not because I thought it would have an impact on you but because of the impact that it had on me. The thoughts seemed important enough for me to project and so I did. I can't really say that I attributed the errors that I pointed out to you, specifically, because I really have no idea what it is you really think. All I could do was put my thoughts out there and further this discussion.

That being said, I would like to make a clarification:

quote:

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If I may be frank with you, NosiS, I think you will try to find error in whatever I write, and, if you cannot, you will (unconsciously) invent it yourself and attribute it to me. I think you are threatened by me, and you want to prove your intelligence by finding fault with my own. I'm glad to see that it is motivating you to think, but I'm not sure the thinking you're doing is especially impartial.

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posted May 27, 2008 08:59 PM            

quote:

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We may not all turn into mass murderers but we certainly head in that direction,
and we contribute to the shadow of the collective unconscious,
thereby making it easier for men like Hitler to appear (and appeal) on the world stage.
-HSC

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quote:

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That which makes it easier for men like Hitler to appear on the world stage is not a preposition of practice, but a preposition of motive.
-NosiS

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This covers only the smallest fraction of the dynamic that occurred in Germany during Hitler's rise. Hitler and his cronies took the opportunity to prey upon the motives of an embattled citizenry, riddled with conflict, and professed an insidious resolution to the country's economic troubles. He expressed his anti-Semitism very clearly, convinced a sufficient amount of struggling peoples by appealing to their desire for change and was able to secure a seat as Chancellor. Once there, he took advantage of von Hindenburg's weakened condition and eventually gained ultimate power over Germany.

That which I found to be overly simplified (in your post) was the connection you made of the practice of a carnivorous diet to the facilitation "for men like Hitler to appear (and appeal) on the world stage." Hitler appealed to the desperation of a people in conflict with their living conditions. The sensationalism employed by the Nazis was, perhaps, even more effective because of the billowing desire for change within a considerable amount of people during that period. I feel that those conditions were more facilitating for the appearance of Hitler onto the world stage and that the practice of a carnivorous diet does not play as vital a role as your words suggested to me.

Again, I apologize for any misunderstanding of your meaning. I confess to projecting much of my own thoughts onto your words and, also, to not having the slightest clue about your mode of thinking.

posted May 27, 2008 11:04 PM            

I appreciate you responding to me in such a mature tone,
and for taking responsibility for your part in any misunderstanding(s).
I will also try to make my posts clearer for your benefit,
and to do my part to ameliorate the aggression.
I know what you mean when you say that I sometimes set traps,
but I think I just try to keep in mind the person(s) I am speaking to,
and to confront issues, more or less, head-on.
I may not say everything directly, but nothing is hidden.
My point of view really is this ambivalent, expansive, and unfocused.
I'd like to reply to you more thoroughly when the time is right.
For now, please accept my appreciation,
and a few words of reconciliation.
I dont mind being in opposition to a worthy opponent,
provided we can maintain a higher understanding,
apart from our more superficial differences.