posted June 16, 2008 01:07 PM            

Irish voters have thrown the EU into disarray by rejecting the Lisbon Treaty, the government conceded.

Mr Ahern added: “At the end of the day, for a myriad of reasons, the people have spoken.”

The decision places massive doubt over the future of the pact designed to bring more European integration.

All 27 European member states have to ratify the treaty for it to go come into force next year. So far it has been approved by 18 members including Britain, but Ireland is the only country to put it to a public vote.

The leaders of the 26 other member states watched with dismay as Ireland voted “no”, a decision that will inevitably lead to much infighting and bickering across Europe.

Despite benefiting from £32 billion in European Grants in recent years, a low turn-out (45 per cent) of the Irish electorate discarded the Treaty, designed to streamline the EU.

The outcome was triumph for a highly-effective No Campaign masterminded by the Libertas group led by the multimillionaire Declan Ganley.

Libertas argued that the Treaty would undermine Ireland’s influence in Europe, would open the door to interference in taxation and enshrine EU law above Irish law.

For Brian Cowen, the newly-installed Irish Prime Minister, the result was a disaster. All the main political parties, aside from Sinn Fein, had supported the Treaty and made strenuous efforts to win the referendum.

posted June 17, 2008 10:25 AM            

Is it because the vote has been put to the public? Or because you don't agree with more European integration? Or neither.

How does your opinion (whatever it is) relate to your being a US citizen? Or do you think it has no bearing (it might not, not being proscriptive here)

I'm asking becase I'm not sure what I think about it, and I'm not sure what you think of it. Interested to hear what others have to say.

posted June 17, 2008 12:38 PM            

Such is the socialist bureaucracy in Brussels who are attempting to govern the lives of every citizen in every country in Europe.

Good for the Irish who turned thumbs down to the socialist bureaucracy.

Now wheels, in typical socialist fashion...when the Constitution of the EU was rejected...and it required a unanimous vote of all nations in the EU to be binding..these grubby little socialists went straight on with their plans just as though they had the authority to do so...and they didn't.

Their latest attempt to wrest control over the lives of European citizens from those who lead those lives was the Lisbon Treaty.

The Lisbon Treaty was nothing but a warmed over copy of the EU Constitution under a new name, which had already been rejected. This too has been rejected.

Perhaps there's still some hope for the citizens of Europe to retain their sovereignty; but not if the grubby little socialists attempting to operate as a government have their way.

posted June 17, 2008 10:20 PM            

quote:

---

I'm never going to be found on the side of those who believe unelected and unaccountable bureaucrats should be making the laws, rules, policies and procedures by which other people are required to live their lives.

---

HOWEVER, if only our Democracy could work that well... jwhop, have you considered running against McCain & Obama? teehee...

I'm only slightly smirking on that one...

posted June 18, 2008 10:58 AM            

Naw ghani, I don't want to be President. That would interfere with my daily nap
time(s).

One thing upon which we agree is a very good start.

Let's see if we can expand on that.

Ghani is a mammal.

posted June 18, 2008 11:09 AM            

I wouldn't be too sure about the "mammal" part, either... I have been known to sprout scales from time to time...

Do you have Moon in Leo? I do! 5th house and all...

posted June 18, 2008 01:14 PM            

Well ghani, you're confusing me here. Do you mean "scales"...like the scales of justice? Or, do you mean "scales" like those funny shaped attachments fish have in abundance...you know, the scales fishermen remove with a fish scaler? Or should that be a fish de-scaler?

Yeah, a fellow Leo Mooner...is that correct English usage when talking to a female? Perhaps something else upon which we can agree. Ghani is a female of the species.

5th House Leo Moon, good placement. Mine's in the Midheaven.

posted June 18, 2008 01:44 PM            

OH, the banter!! I predominantly spend my time with men and argue politics and sports ad neausem... Our poker games are legendary. Not that we play for money... we play for PRIDE!

On the topic of the other kind of scales... I heard it in a movie once. "why are all these women still running around without husbands?" "Oh, it may have something to do with the fact that our bodies are completely coverd in scales under our clothes"

posted June 18, 2008 04:07 PM            

I have a very good friend, very PROUD Leo, and we play the most wonderful rounds of verbal hand ball... sometimes it turns into dodge ball, as there is always this lingering *ahem* other tension in the air between us... but it's always very stimulaing and leaves me exhausted but feeling like I climed a mountain and rolled down it!

posted June 18, 2008 07:16 PM            

I never did swim in the ocean in FL until I was visiting Fort Lauderdale with some friends. I don't really swim in the ocean, something creeps me out about what could be down there... LOL... I watch way too much Discovery Channel.. But I always have to at least wade out and feel the lapping waves... The sand in my toes... Even at night, there is something magical about the ocean... We have some truly spectacular beaches up here. I have a feeling this summer will be ideal, as so many people are feeling the crunch from gas/oil/food price increases, it may not be as busy as usual. Sucks for the economy, but nice for when you just wanna go down to the beach and make out on the lifeguard's post at night!!

What kind of poker player are you, jwhop? A bluffer, or a caller?

posted June 18, 2008 08:25 PM            

Didn't know you lived in Florida..at one time. Must have been the East Coast. Our water is so clear we can see bottom in water up to our shoulders. Hmmm, maybe that's why they call Clearwater..Clearwater. Not much in the water to watch out for here. The Dolphins patrol the waters close in..keeps the sharks away and about the only things that could be a problem are baby Stingrays sunning themselves in the shallow water..about 8 to 12 inches of water. Harmless really but don't step on one because they don't appreciate being stepped on. We've all learned to do the Stingray Shuffle.

I agree, there's something magical about the ocean and especially at night with a full moon and I don't even have a bit of Pisces in my chart.

Imagine a barrier island about 4 blocks wide between the Gulf of Mexico and the Intercoastal Waterway. On that barrier island is one (1) through north/south Blvd...called, for some strange reason, Gulf Blvd. Just to my south is the city of Treasure Island, a major tourist attraction as is John's Pass in Maderia Beach where I live. Now, imagine trying to get anywhere up or down the beach during tourist season or as it's known here..the season. Compound that with the fact that to get off the island one must cross over the Intercoastal waterway by way of a drawbridge operated by the Army Corp of Engineers. Then, imagine all the marinas full of sailboats with tall masts and the only way they can get out to the Gulf is through John's Pass and you have the perfect recipe for traffic jams and frustration. It seems those drawbridges are always up. If you're going somewhere in season, start early and plan on being late anyway. So, we like to see the snowbirds and tourists but when April rolls around, we're also glad to see them take I-75 North.

Since we're not likely to be playing strip poker, I'll tell you. If I think you're unsure of how good your hand is, I'll bluff you and try to get you to fold.

If I'm going to call..because I really do have the cards, I'll bet small and try to sucker you into betting large. Then, I'll call you. Pretty standard stuff. Yes, it all depends on how much is on the table at the time.

posted June 19, 2008 08:37 AM            

I was actually in Fort Myers. I really didn't get to the beach very much when I lived down there, what with school every day 8-12 and then I worked at night. I did take advantage of the pool at my condo, couldn't stay out of it!!

I felt for the people who lived on Sanibel, that was not fun for them getting around during tourist season... The bridge to get there was teeny tiny and always seemed to be under construction... Plus it cost $6 to cross!!

As far as poker goes, I'm pretty risky... I like to go big or go home most of the time, but I will mix it up just to confuse my fellow players, keep 'em on their toes!

Wheels,

posted June 19, 2008 10:44 AM            

Must say wheels that I didn't know how you would take my comments about the rejection of the Lisbon Treaty. Sometimes I think you're just trying to bounce me; other times that you're defending against a perceived insult..which isn't and other times that you're reacting to what you perceive to be an air of American superiority.

posted June 19, 2008 11:57 AM            

I love swimming. It's an excellent form of exercise. My family has a history of bad knee joints, generally leading to knee replacement surgeries, so my pool activities were strictly for exercise... Who knows if there will be any money in SS by the time I retire.. who knows if I will be able to afford the medical treatment I would need... preventative medicine is where it's at. I'm pretty pale, always have to slather on the SPF 30 at least... Irish-American, you see. So I was not sunning myself and lounging in the pool, as most women in Florida do, merely doing my body good for the future enjoyment of others...

And risky poker is the only way to play... I'm super competitive when it comes to games or sports, so much so that I had to let myself completely not care if I lose... hence being totally ball$y when it comes to poker. The more outrageous my bets, the more fun I can ultimately have playing, becuase there is adventure there!!

posted June 19, 2008 11:58 AM            

hehehe

I'll be fair to you, from now on in, when I am being sincere I'll put in capital letters SINCERE ALERT. Because how is a person to know?! I was being sincere and actually know very little about this Lisbon Treaty or what my opinion is. So I thought since you raised it I'd ask ya. Spirit of Global Unity an all that.

Even though you are a right wing, Ann Coulter-fancying lamo, sometimes I think you're worth listening to.

Bless you chickadee, have a great weekend.

posted June 19, 2008 01:57 PM            

SINCERITY ALERT
Wheels, I don't mind whether you're being sincere, defensive, patronizing, insincere, derisive or merely sarcastic. I enjoy talking to you and besides, you must have noticed by now that I have a bulletproof hide...oh, and I can dish it out too.

Are you not on Earth time there? Both the calendar on the wall and my internal calendar tells me it's Thursday. So, thank you for the "have a great weekend" sentiment...and I will..when the "weekend" gets to Florida.

posted June 19, 2008 09:03 PM            

So I figure, lead by example. I vote, I pay attention to the issues, I have my opinions and share them with company that doesn't want to fight with me, merely hear another side and come to an understanding that those who actually have the power never seem to be able to do. There is so much dissention in the world already, I would rather wear my peace sign and smile as much as I can.

But I don't think anyone will argue when you recycle, spend time in the garden, pick up other people's trash, and do your best to make sure this planet we live on will survive human inhabitation.

I like to have fun, don't get me wrong... a little too much at times, but I feel that as long as I'm not hurting anyone else, and I can maybe make one minute of another person's day better, then I will sleep soundly...

So don't worry about me losing any bit of my hippie mind-set; I've just decided to focus my energies where they will actually make a difference...

Oh, and I'm 27... pretty darn old! LOL!

A side note, I work for a Democratic senator... I've seen the insides... Nuff said..

Stay cool down there!!

posted June 20, 2008 12:11 AM            

It's true some protests get out of hand and most of the protesters don't know there's an inside game going on. They don't care if you get your head busted...so long as it makes the news and gets them some publicity.

Peace in the abstract should be pursued but it's a fallacy to believe everyone wants the same things we do. It offends me that 50,000,000 lives were lost in WWII pursuing peace unilaterally and I don't want any repeats of that policy.

Nope, no one will fault you for picking up trash, gardening, recycling, conserving water and air resources and generally being conscious and careful of how you impact earth's ecosystem.

Isn't there a bit of hippie in every Aquarius? 27, ohhhh that's so ancient. But, there's still time to do all those things on your list of things to do.

So, now it all comes out. You were down here in Florida on a mission, attempting to lure our tourists to Maine. Psssst, come over here, yeah you. Don't you know Maine has the best beaches? Any of the guys fall for that propaganda?

You must work for a State Senator then since both US Senators are Republicans...or at least, they say they are. So, have I now met the enemy?

Cool is a relative term in Florida. It's midnight and 80 degrees. Sometimes I envy those with 50's nighttime temps...well, make that 60's.

Big Moon with a halo tonight..as it should be in Paradise.

posted June 21, 2008 01:21 AM            

In Dublin these days they say there were three responses to the recent referendum on approving the EU's constitutional "Lisbon Treaty." These included: Yes, No, and "I'll tink about it after this pint!"

The final result was a clear victory for the "No's" by 53.4% to 46.6%, with a surprising number of farmers, blue collar workers and small business people in an overwhelming number of counties voting with the majority. A record turnout of 53% of the electorate suggests that there is little chance soon of a call for a revote.

Twenty-six other European capitals were left in a state of confusion over the failure to secure a necessary unanimous agreement on the establishment of the much lobbied institutional reforms strengthening the EU's centralized constitutional structure.

Having been rebuffed by the voters in France and Denmark in 2005 whose negative reaction to their referendum killed the earlier constitutional treaty, the European Union legislators decided to leave the matter solely in the hands of their respective national legislative bodies. Only Ireland's constitution required getting approval directly from its voters through a referendum.

What the Irish were faced with was a 269-page document that, among other things, created a full-time President of the European Union, a foreign policy chief officer and a fully staffed diplomatic service. It strengthened the unifying effect of the European monetary system and essentially ignored NATO by creating a mutual defense clause.

Other items included the fact that the European Court of Justice would be able to rule on national legislation. There was an exception for Britain and Ireland, but the Irish voters don't trust such promises. The ambition of a new sovereign Europe was made quite clear in the minds of the majority of Irish voters.

SURPRISINGLY THE FIGHT to preserve the special "Irishness" of the vote was led by a wealthy Englishman with a posh accent and extensive U.S. business contacts. A rather mixed group of conservative Catholics, left-wingers and nationalists were reported by the press to have made up a formidable following for the self-anointed "Irish" hero, Declan Ganley.

The former Fine Gael prime minister, Garret Fitzgerald, said that in his estimation the working class areas voted No and the wealthier constituencies were Yes voters. He opined, "...the vote was very class divided, which is very disturbing in its own right."

Perhaps most upset by the Irish vote was the French president, Nicolas Sarkozy. It was his intention, as France was about to assume a six-month presidency of the EU, to launch serious programs addressing immigration, energy, climate change and defense issues. As it is, the energetic French leader will have to turn his attention to some form of watered down political solution to either satisfy the Irish or simply go around them -- which destroys the basic principle of the union in the first place.

Such is the herd instinct in Europe these days that there is an aggressive unwillingness to credit the Irish voters with the true value of their independence and democracy. As far as the politicians and many commentators are concerned, the Irish are an ungrateful crowd unwilling to recognize all that Europe has meant to their country economically.

The Irish are quite aware of the vast material changes that have occurred in the last twenty plus years. But it was the Asians and Americans who first saw the value of Irish energy and technical talent -- not the European neighbors.

The European leaders conceived of the EU as a counterbalance to American economic, political, and even strategic power. Unfortunately for these new European empire builders, the majority of the Irish voters aren't interested in these objectives.

THE AMBITION of the Europhiles is to coerce a change in Irish popular sentiment or proceed without them. Of course, this droit du seigneur is exactly what the new Europe is supposed not to be claiming. Perhaps the Irish have a particular instinct to discern the oppressive heel of the potential lord.

If and when the Irish, who have a different sense of time from others across the pond, decide they truly can maintain their individuality and independence of decision-making, they may join whole-heartedly with their European cousins.