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Author Topic:   One Unlikely VP Debate Question
jwhop
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Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 06, 2008 11:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
September 06, 2008
One Unlikely VP Debate Question
Lee Cary

The Democrats, supported by their allies in the old big media, never tired of highlighting Vice President Dick Cheney’s absence of military service based on student draft deferments. But how much have we heard about Senator Joseph Biden’s military service -- or lack thereof?

Biden turns out to have received the same number of student draft deferments during the Vietnam War as did Cheney -- five. Then, according to this quote from one of his campaign spokespersons, David Wade,

“As a result of a physical exam on April 5, 1968, Joe Biden was classified I-Y and disqualified from service because of asthma as a teenager.”

But wait, in his memoir, according to the same Washington Times story linked above,

“In ‘Promises to Keep,’ a memoir that was published last year and became an instant best-seller after he was tapped as Mr. Obama's running mate, Mr. Biden never mentions his asthma, recounting an active childhood, work as a lifeguard and football exploits in high school.”

I took the same Armed Forces physical exam that Joe took at about the same time in the process of enlisting. There was a box on the form where each subject checked off his/her maladies. Asthma was one of those boxes. I didn’t check it, because I didn’t have it.

But a friend named “Don,” whom I’d known since age 4, did have asthma. He enlisted in the U.S. Air Force, and didn’t check the asthma box. He wanted to serve. He retired after 20 years with the rank of Lieutenant Colonel. Another friend, “David,” had asthma when he joined the Navy in the Post-Vietnam era, and served with distinction for six years. He just didn’t check the box either.

So, let’s see if we have this straight: Young Joe Biden is a high school football player (anyone experience two-a-days in August heat?), lifeguard (which means he swam), received five student deferments that saw him through law school, and then he checks the box marked “asthma” and gets a medical deferment at age 25. Curious, is it not?

There will be no military experience edge for Senator Biden in the VP debate. He’s no G.I. Joe.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 07, 2008 04:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
My dad played football and baseball in High School while having asthma.

I think the reason Cheney got slammed by the media is because Cheney called into question Kerry's qualifications for Commander-In-Chief, the point being that Kerry went to Vietnam while Cheney sought deferments. There is no similar issue in this campaign, and therefore no press.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 07, 2008 11:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"There is no similar issue in this campaign, and therefore no press."

Wrong acoustic.

John McCain has real military experience and...Barack Hussein O'Bomber has not one second of military experience and no basis upon which to be Commander in Chief. Apart from voting against funding US military forces in the war and on the battlefields, denying with vehemence that the surge wouldn't work and make things worse in Iraq and still as of a few days ago denying the surge did work...O'Bomber has no connection whatsoever to the military.

How odd you would bring up John Traitor Kerry about whom the Swift Boat military personnel were very vocal about Kerry's lack of fittness to ever serve as Commander In Chief of US military forces. They told the truth about Kerry whose military exploits were totally fabricated...by Kerry himself.

How odd also acoustic that you don't see that every mention of McCain's military career and record invites the comparison with O'Bomber's total lack of similar experience. Just because McCain isn't saying it..about O'Bomber, doesn't mean comparisons aren't being made. The dots are being connected in the minds of potential voters.

McCain just isn't giving the haters in the press any sound bites with which to attack him on the issue. But, it is an issue with O'Bomber and it's also an issue with O'Biden, especially since the United States is at war.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 07, 2008 01:14 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It is still dissimilar in that there isn't a person with no military experience discounting or attacking another candidate's military experience.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 08, 2008 02:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Wrong acoustic. There is an attack on O'Bomber's lack of military service...O'Biden's lack too.

It's just not an overt attack. It's the kind of attack which invites a comparison between the candidates as to their fitness to be Commander in Chief. When McCain adds information to his message that O'Bomber wanted to cut and run from the terrorist enemy, denied the surge would work and did work...AND that O'Bomber voted to cut off funds for the troops in the field, it's a devastating attack on O'Bomber's fitness.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 08, 2008 02:35 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You've strayed off course, and you're not answering what I said. What I said is right: Amongst the three candidates who have not served in the military, none of them is questioning McCain's military service or relating his military service to his unfitness to lead (as was the case between Cheney and Kerry).


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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 08, 2008 04:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"You've strayed off course, and you're not answering what I said. What I said is right: Amongst the three candidates who have not served in the military, none of them is questioning McCain's military service or relating his military service to his unfitness to lead (as was the case between Cheney and Kerry)....acoustic"

No acoustic you've jumped the tracks. O'Bomber sent out 2 different surrogates to say John McCain's military service doesn't qualify him to be Commander in Chief.

First, O'Bomber sent out Senator Jay Rockefeller to blast McCain for his military service. Rockefeller is a big supporter of O'Bomber.

Then, O'Bomber sent out Wesley Clark, a former General and O'Bomber supporter who was relieved of his command over NATO forces in Europe...to say that getting shot down over Vietnam doesn't qualify McCain for Commander in Chief.

Now, McCain is making the comparison between his military service and that of O'Bomber's...which is none whatsoever.

Now acoustic, I'm going to ask you to post right here the comment you say Dick Cheney made to the effect John Traitor Kerry was unfit to serve as Commander in Chief.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 08, 2008 06:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's never going to be an apples to apples comparison. There are two war-advocate incumbents accusing a vet of being unfit for leadership, are there? And while Cheney may not have discredited Kerry's service, he did attempt to discredit Kerry national security credentials (even by recounting votes Kerry made supporting Cheney's military cuts). The Swift Boat campaign was also funded largely by a Bush fundraiser as well. In this context, it's not at all surprising that both Cheney and Bush's service was called into question.

quote:
First, O'Bomber sent out Senator Jay Rockefeller to blast McCain for his military service. Rockefeller is a big supporter of O'Bomber.

Then, O'Bomber sent out Wesley Clark, a former General and O'Bomber supporter who was relieved of his command over NATO forces in Europe...to say that getting shot down over Vietnam doesn't qualify McCain for Commander in Chief.


If you're suggesting the Obama sent these people out to discredit McCain's service, then it would be hypocritical for you to get on Obama about "smearing" McCain's team for trying to stir the Muslim pot. Conservative media has been stirring that pot. Everyone knows that they serve Republican campaigns as much as possible whether coordinated with the campaign or not. Some guy screaming at a Democrat to say Obama's middle name on a Fox News show doesn't exactly speak well of Republicans.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 08, 2008 06:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I do know that both Wesley Clark and Jay Rockefeller are big O'Bomber supporters and surrogates.

I didn't think you could back up your "Cheney questioned Traitor Kerry's military credentials" statement.

Further, the exact truth was told about John Traitor Kerry...and by the Swift Boat Veterans who served with Kerry and knew the score.

Further still, Kerry has yet to release his entire military records to the public...as he promised to do more than 4 years ago. Lots of us would really like to know why it was necessary for Carter to convene a special military board in 1976 to grant Kerry an honorable discharge 4 years after his separation date in 1972. An honorable discharge is automatic upon separation...unless there's something on the record which would not be considered "honorable".

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 08, 2008 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Further, the exact truth was told about John Traitor Kerry...and by the Swift Boat Veterans who served with Kerry and knew the score.

I know you don't realize this, but Swift Boaters were discredited by fact-checkers everywhere.

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jwhop
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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted September 08, 2008 07:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hahaha, don't even attempt to go there acoustic.

Kerry's accounts of his war just don't square with reality.

Here's one. Kerry wrote up the after action report of the swift boat blown out of the water by a mine.

Kerry said "we were taking fire for 5000 meters". Hahaha, 5000 meters is more than 3 miles. So here's Kerry attempting to get the brass to believe VC and North Vietnam regulars were lined up on the banks and firing at the swift boats in a water way only 75 feet wide...5000 meters of fire...and not a single hole was found in any of the boats...except the hole the mine made when it exploded.

Kerry, "It's seared into my memory that Nixon sent me on a secret mission to Cambodia at Christmas, 1968". Problem, Richard Nixon wasn't President in December 1968. Lyndon Johnson was President until January 20, 1969.

The truth is that Kerry bugged out when the other boat hit the mine. He bugged out and left the crews of the other 2 boats to fish the swift boat crew out of the water, secure the boat for towing and stop whatever leaks could be stopped. Kerry put his entire crew and boat in danger by going full throttle up the canal..in light of the fact Kerry already knew a boat had struck a mine.

Kerry is a liar now, was a liar then; the truth was told about Kerry and he is totally unfit to ever be Commander in Chief. The voting public agreed with that assessment and elected Bush.

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AcousticGod
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From: Pleasanton, CA
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posted September 08, 2008 11:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I already did go there. That swift boat campaign was thoroughly looked in to, and at best it suggested that there was information missing. There was no conclusive proof of any Kerry lie, and several actual witnesses to the events were Kerry supporters.

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jwhop
Knowflake

Posts: 2787
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted September 09, 2008 11:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"Further still, Kerry has yet to release his entire military records to the public...as he promised to do more than 4 years ago. Lots of us would really like to know why it was necessary for Carter to convene a special military board in 1976 to grant Kerry an honorable discharge 4 years after his separation date in 1972. An honorable discharge is automatic upon separation...unless there's something on the record which would not be considered "honorable".

Nixon sent Kerry into Cambodia on a secret mission in December 1968...Nixon??...when Lyndon Johnson WAS President of the United States? Oh wait, that's obviously not a lie!

We were taking fire for 5000 meters...more than 3 miles..and not a single bullet hole was found in any of those swift boats. Oh wait, that's obviously not a lie!

Gee, no one would want me shooting at them...even with a .22 rifle from a distance of about 40 feet. Hell, they wouldn't want me shooting at them from 40 feet with a handgun. With such poor marksmanship, how, oh how did America lose the war to those who can't shoot straight?

But hey acoustic, carry on with your nonsense that Kerry didn't lie and that the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth "Swiftboated" Kerry.

Now acoustic, Kerry also lied when he said more than 4 years ago that he would release his entire military records for public examination. He lied because he still hasn't done that and never intended to do that. But Kerry's not a liar...according to you acoustic...and the fact checking organizations you like to use.

Now we find that fact check dot org is a part of the Annenberg Group. The group which funded the radical Bill Ayers...and the equally radical O'Bomber in a quest to take over the education system of Chicago. Their own ending report concluded there was not one particle of improvement in the Chicago School system...after spending more than 100 million dollars. Most of the money was spent in funding leftist radical groups...friends of O'Bomber and Ayers so it wasn't a total waste. It did pump up the bank accounts of some of the most radical leftists in the United States.

BTW, the St. Petersburg Times also has a fact checking team. Now acoustic, the principle underlying their facts is...that the facts are whatever they say they are.


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