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Topic: Pakistan orders troops to stop US raids with force --- JW ??
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venusdeindia unregistered
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posted September 17, 2008 01:40 AM
Not being smug, but nearing election time this could turn the dice. Obama DID take the lead on this. And ..though u have ben dismissive, knowing what i do of Pakistani Military - Fundamentalist nexus..... This can be a HUGE problem...maybe even War.Told YA http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/World/Pakistan/ Pakistan_orders_troops_to_stop_US_raids_with_force/articleshow/3490577.cms
quote:
ISLAMABAD: Pakistan's military has ordered its forces to open fire if US troops launch another raid across the Afghan border, an army spokesman said on Tuesday.The orders mark a dangerous escalation in tension between Washington and a key ally in its seven-year war on terrorism, less than two months before the US elects a new president. Pakistani protests are growing in the wake of a September 3 incident in which helicopters ferried US commandos into Pakistan for a highly unusual ground attack on a militant stronghold. The country's civilian leaders have stressed that Pakistan must resolve the dispute through diplomatic channels. However, army spokesman Maj. Gen. Athar Abbas said that, after the cross-border assault in the South Waziristan tribal region, the military told its field commanders to take action to prevent any similar raids. "The orders are clear," Abbas said in an interview. "In case it happens again in this form, that there is a very significant detection, which is very definite, no ambiguity, across the border, on ground or in the air: open fire." US military commanders accuse Islamabad of doing too little to prevent the Taliban and other militant groups from recruiting, training and resupplying in Pakistan's wild tribal belt. Pakistan acknowledges the presence of al-Qaida fugitives and its difficulties in preventing militants from seeping through the mountainous border into Afghanistan. However, it insists it is doing what it can and paying a heavy price, pointing to its deployment of more then 100,000 troops in its increasingly restive northwest and a wave of suicide bombings across the country.
Makes you wonder WHY would a Partner in fighting terrorism would attack you if YOU did the Job THEY were Failing to Do....
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 12:06 PM
"Not being smug, but nearing election time this could turn the dice. Obama DID take the lead on this. And ..though u have ben dismissive, knowing what i do of Pakistani Military - Fundamentalist nexus..... This can be a HUGE problem...maybe even War. Told YA ...VDI"Yes, you are to being smug VDI. Don't get your hopes up for a war between the US and Pakistan. This is so much boilerplate and it's not even coming from the Pakistani government...but rather from 1 (one) general in the Pakistani military. Do you actually think Pakistani troops are going to fire on US forces who have pursued Taliban or al-Qaeda terrorists back across the border? Or do you think Pakistani military forces in this cut off area, with difficult terrain where it is impossible to reinforce Pakistani military forces are going to fire on US forces? I don't think so. I think this is saying something to say something because there is pressure on the government due to the fact it's generally well known that US forces are operating intermittently in what is legally and internationally known to be Pakistan territory...and never mind that Pakistan is not in control of this terrorist infested area. I would be very interested to know what orders our Special Forces personnel have received...in the event Pakistani forces fire on them. I said before that a real leader doesn't go in front of cameras and microphones to announce his plans to bomb or attack an ally...as O'Bomber did. Bush doesn't talk about it publicly, he just does what he considers necessary to eliminate the threat to US forces and citizens of another sovereign nation, Afghanistan...and keeps his mouth shut about his plans and options for the use of force. Now, let's talk about what might trigger a war with Pakistan. Imagine what the US government would do if it appeared Pakistan was on the verge of being taken over by terrorist factions and supporters. Say, like Hamas took over the government of the so called Palestinian areas. Do you think the US would stand idly by and give access to the nuclear weapons Pakistan possess...to terrorists?
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Mannu Knowflake Posts: 45 From: always here and no where Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 12:08 PM
No, US can strike any nation preemptively it feels threatened by. But I don't think it has ever happened that they had to exercise that right. Lets make Obama secretary of state. His voters thinks that he understands muslim brothers of the world far better than the rednecks.Infact he looks better in the Somali dress than any of his contemporary white house politicians. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 01:09 PM
I agree Mannu. No sane President or Congress would permit nuclear weapons to fall into the hands of terrorists if they could prevent it from happening.Leftist thought on this matter is that we have to stand by and let a nation or terrorists actually destroy American cities before we resort to force. Oh, of course, these morons are all for beefing up a responder force to go into radioactive areas of America to bag and tag American citizens body parts for later DNA identification. These leftist morons are also quite willing to leave American citizen's a$ses flapping in the breeze...while they're evacuated to blast proof, fully stocked underground shelters well out of harm's way. Such are the thought processes of leftist elitists...those self appointed and self identified as having superior powers of intellect, morality and spirituality. IP: Logged |
Quinnie Moderator Posts: 780 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 03:35 PM
Define an American citizen please! This is exactly what there are many ANTI-Americans. SMUG! does not even come close to the complete arrogance and tyrannical threats of the US. So the US is free to have weapons of mass destruction and yet any other country doing the same should be attacked and disbanded because they are 'maybe' terrorists. Let me ask you if you were not American how terrorist would the US government appear if they threatened to invade your country because you were able to defend yourself.If the US really defended it's own people then 911 would not have happened! Wake up! It's all about power, money and Oil! and thats it.
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 04:18 PM
Quinnie, those anti-Americans you talk about know where the US borders are...and if they don't, there's any number of Americans who would happily point them in the right direction.Let's see, Americans are "smug" when we attempt to limit nuclear weapons and prevent them from falling into hands connected to mouths which daily chant "Death to America"? Are you fully sane Quinnie I'm not sure which country you're talking about America invading Quinnie. If Afghanistan, then we're talking about a country recognized by only 2 nations on earth as having a legitimate government, Pakistan and Saudi Arabia. We're also talking about the country from which al-Qaeda both plotted to attack and then did attack the United States. If you're talking about Iraq then I would say Saddam Hussein violated his cease-fire agreement which he used to put the 1991 Gulf War on hold...notice, I said on hold...while he was supposed to bring Iraq into compliance with the agreement he signed. Not only didn't Saddam live up to the agreement...not in any way, but Saddam was routinely firing missiles at coalition air craft flying the UN prescribed "no fly zones". Zones necessary because Saddam used aircraft and helicopters to attack Shia civilians living in the South of Iraq. If you're talking about Pakistan then US forces are fighting against terrorists who would if they could overthrow the government of Pakistan and institute a radical Islamic rule over the people of Pakistan...in addition to having their murderous little hands on nuclear weapons. However, whatever violation of Pakistan's borders have occured in areas in which the Government of Pakistan is definitely not in control and the US has no interest in conquering Pakistan or overthrowing the government, far from it. Afghanistan civilians and coalition forces are being attacked from the remote border areas of Pakistan. I keep hearing the Iraq War is all about oil but where is the proof? The US hasn't taken a drop of oil out of Iraq and in fact, Iraq just signed oil agreements with China and NONE with the US or US oil companies. Where's the proof of your allegations Quinnie?
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Quinnie Moderator Posts: 780 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 04:33 PM
Sanity is Vanity Jwhop of which I have neither!I know where those American borders are, it's called the Globe! And it's in any direction. American people are multi-cultural, Irish, English, Asian, Italian, African, and probably Alien too. Can you see how the Us comes across as a Bully nation. I'm NOT American, I'm live in Northern Ireland and I'm a human being! I have seen the devastation and trauma caused to people living in a so called 'terrorist' country. Sometimes there is more to meet the eye and the history of the so called 'terrorism' as well as the credibility of the actual 'terrorist' 'threat' imposed is not studied. Rather word is taken for truth. IP: Logged |
Quinnie Moderator Posts: 780 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 04:36 PM
Jwhop I fully respect you and the vast knowledge you bring to the forum but am critical of your sources.BTW what's your sign? I'm an argumentative Libran. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 04:49 PM
And then, there is this:U.S. had permission for Pakistan attack But officials upset by leak of 'secret' agreement Posted: September 15, 2008 10:17 pm Eastern The United States, despite public outrage in Pakistan over recent military attacks into its tribal areas along the Afghanistan border, may have had permission from officials there for their work targeting terrorists, according to a report from Joseph Farah's G2 Bulletin. Well-placed Pakistani sources are reporting the U.S. quietly worked out a deal with Pakistan to allow U.S. special operations troops to attack terrorist sanctuaries inside the country. The sources said the tacit agreement was reached when Pakistani Prime Minister Yousef Raza Gilani and Rehman Malik, Gilani's internal security adviser, were briefed on a change in U.S. engagement rules during an official visit to Washington, D.C., in late July. Revelation of the U.S. special operations into Pakistan happened after a U.S. Marine unit Sept. 3 apparently attacked the village of Musa Nika in South Waziristan, about a mile inside Pakistan. The raid reportedly killed 20 people, including militants and civilians. It was the first known ground attack into Pakistan since the change of U.S. engagement rules. In addition to discussing counter-insurgency plans in July with Pakistan's prime minister, there also were discussions between Pakistani officials and Gen. David Petraeus, who is to be the next commander of U.S. Central Command, under which the Afghan conflict falls. At the July Washington meeting between U.S. officials and Gilani, informed sources said that they agreed to stepped-up aerial attacks on suspected terrorist hideouts in Pakistani territory by Predator drones. They also agreed, if there was precise intelligence, the U.S. could undertake ground operations through special forces within five kilometers of the border without informing the Pakistan Army beforehand. According to former Pentagon expert Col. David Hunt, the particular unit was the U.S. Marine Corps Special Operations unit called Detachment One. Hunt claimed that CIA, which for years has had a close working relationship with Pakistan's intelligence agency, the Inter-Services Intelligence, had been warned prior to the U.S. attack. "We didn't ask permission," Hunt asserted. "We told them we were coming." http://worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=75421 IP: Logged |
Quinnie Moderator Posts: 780 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 04:56 PM
Jwhop I didn't read the full post, it's a news paper article or something, don't buy into it at all! Do you leave the paper down and consider how war effects the innocent civilians who have done nothing but live their lives and survive? BTW I'm right handed so I'm not a leftist IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 05:12 PM
Awww Quinnie, while it's true Americans are from every point on the globe, when we came here we became Americans and America definitely has borders no matter there are some busily attempting to erase those borders.Most Americans reject the notion America is a bully. We also reject the notion America is imperialist. That's leftist speak they pull out of their socialist and communist a$ses because the US controls less territory now than before WWII. Does the rest of the world expect America's help, money, technology, military protection and medical technology and help with no strings attached? Nevertheless, there are very few strings attached and lots of help is offered even to those who are avowed enemies of the US. Perhaps you haven't seen the results of terrorist attacks. We have. Perhaps you haven't noticed who is and has been killing...deliberately, willfully and intentionally killing civilians in Iraq and Afghanistan. We have. The definition of terrorism comports well with the activities of those we call "terrorists". You don't like my sources? Quinnie, truthfully, if the New York Times prints the date on the front page of their fish wrapper so called newspaper, I check my calendar before I believe even that coming from their propaganda rag. Oh, and Quinnie, only 21% of Americans believe all or even most of what the NY Times and other papers print is true. Attacking my sources isn't going to advance your argument. I love Libras....argumentative as they are and as much as they try to hide it. I love the Irish too. God bless their hearts for standing up to the EU nuts and rejecting their socialist constitution. I'm Venus in Libra but I'm a Leo.
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Quinnie Moderator Posts: 780 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 17, 2008 05:34 PM
I love Leo's... so much that I called my son Leo because he wasn't born in the sign (you might call that obsessed).You are obviously well able to handle an argument (Venus in Libra) as well as having the facts to hand you like to call people morons and insane and stuff which well contributes to getting your point across! I am super-sensitive about war and the trauma it creates and being an idealist means I am anti-war! I also think that when aliens come to invade Planet Earth (as in Independance Day movie) it will not be the US who messiah us! IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 12:10 AM
That's nice Quinnie that you gave your son a # 6 name...Leo.Now Quinnie, I didn't call you insane. I merely laid out a set of circumstances related to what you said...and asked you the question. I don't know a single person who is for war per se. But being unwilling to fight or unprepared almost assures you will get war. I often wonder how far those who say they are anti-war are willing to go to avoid it? I didn't know space aliens are coming on Independence Day or to declare "Independence Day". Your Independence Day or ours? That particular group of space aliens may already be late arriving on the scene. There are some who say Bush is a shape shifting reptilian space alien. Imagine that; coming all that way only to find Bush beat them to Earth.
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venusdeindia unregistered
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posted September 18, 2008 03:33 AM
woah...i take a nap and this is what happens ??? no JW, wasnt being smug...when i AM its something like Eric Cartmen ..nananananan...heheheheh..... Get the drift ? quote: Don't get your hopes up for a war between the US and Pakistan.
actually...intervention was more of what i meant. the Pakistani military has a history of doing away with their elected leaders , imposing martial law and the Middle east Mullahs join the Party. the US attcks have clearly led to panic among the ISI ranks. last week we had 8 serial bomb blasts leaving 50 dead...Why ?? becoz of the US raids...obviously stemming from the intelligence the Indianarmy had been supplying and the growing closeness between the US and India. not to mention Bush has finally seen thru the crap that is Mushrraf and kicked his ass in every metaphoric way... now THIS...here i M being SMUG with Musharraf gone, dont think ONE single general doesnt amount to much. Pakistan has been held hostage from democracy on 3 occasions in th last 50 years..by ONE or actually three such One generals. btw the newspiece u posted throws light on what i just said above...Pakistan Military is a law unto itself. they dont care about the democratic, elected leaders, they owe their allegiance to the Fundamentalists, spread from Mumbai to Mecca. IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 08:42 AM
"obviously stemming from the intelligence the Indianarmy had been supplying and the growing closeness between the US and India."Hmmm, what would Indian intelligence know about Pakistan's North Waziristan tribal region that US intelligence doesn't? Well, we know Pakistani intelligence and military are well stocked with fundamentalist Islamic types but by and large, they've done a credible job of going after high ranking Taliban and al-Qaeda in their cities...and also in the tribal areas at times. So, you think India was attacked because Indian intelligence is supplying data to the US? How do you know the attack wasn't connected to the disputed area of Kashmir? Oh, I see, you're a na-na-na-na-na-na type gloater.
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venusdeindia unregistered
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posted September 18, 2008 09:15 AM
yup, i AM THAT.
quote: you think India was attacked because Indian intelligence is supplying data to the US?How do you know the attack wasn't connected to the disputed area of Kashmir?
becoz..last weeks blasts, in addition to two other such serial blasts in Banglore , the IT hub and Ahmedabad and others citites were CLAIMED FOR by Huji, which is calling itself indian mujahiddeen, do you know what mujahideen means ? its a term used to describe those Muslims who left India when Pakistan was created, but were treated as outcastes by the Paki Muslims . so much for creating a Land for Muslims Govt intelligence thus far has linked these outfits which are also blacklisted by the CIA and Interpol to ISI...go figure. last year a muslim scholar was arrested for being involved in such attacks, he admitted to being remunerated by the Nexus.so did the ones who orchestrated the attacks. they were dirt poor muslim students. as a matter of fact, u DID read the last time i posted a newspiece on the Bangalore attacks. the outfit that took responsibility for the attack, has long been accepted by the Cia to be an Al-qeda outfit.AND they made it clear that Bsngalore was attacked BECOZ of the growing Indian Military and intelligence support to the US. Surely JW you dont suppose our soldiers braving subzero climte in Kashmir , the border shared with tribal Paksitan know naught about the Militant hideouts....THAT is their ONLY job. one that is now rewarded by US attacks on the hideouts. And yet you thhink there are other reasons. KASHMIR is an excuse JW. as i gloating about Mush and now these bombings so shall i gloat when the soup boils in Pakistan...until then.... Its time for some Campainin
seriously ,funniest piece ever IP: Logged |
Mannu Knowflake Posts: 45 From: always here and no where Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 09:46 AM
The terrorists are morons who has not separated state and religion in their heads. We need to educate them as civilized people. I even heard Salman Rushdie (who I think is pro socialist) say that Osama is not interested in US, he is interested in uniting muslim people all over the world and driving attention to those muslims he thinks suffer at the hands of non muslims. Jeez another brainwashed piscean extreme left nut.
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 09:56 AM
"do you know what mujahideen means?"Sure, I know what Mujahideen means. It means brave warriors who make war on women and little girls. But, what's in a name? Here, we have a political party named the Democratic Party and there's not a democratic thought in their party leaders empty heads. IP: Logged |
venusdeindia unregistered
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posted September 18, 2008 11:05 AM
quote:
It means brave warriors who make war on women and little girls.
er...no in Pakistan and India it means what i said - a migrant indian muslim - In pakistan. IP: Logged |
TINK unregistered
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posted September 18, 2008 11:56 AM
quote: Surely JW you dont suppose our soldiers braving subzero climte in Kashmir , the border shared with tribal Paksitan know naught about the Militant hideouts....THAT is their ONLY job. one that is now rewarded by US attacks on the hideouts.
I think you're spot on about this, Venus. I certainly hope we're accessing local Indian intel more than the mass media would have us believe. In fact, the US needs to access India more in general, but, you know, God forbid we pisss off the neighbors. quote: But, what's in a name?
Not always so much. Like, for instance, when you're a Nazi calling yourself a socialist. IP: Logged |
AcousticGod Knowflake Posts: 4415 From: Pleasanton, CA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 01:36 PM
quote: Not always so much. Like, for instance, when you're a Nazi calling yourself a socialist.
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jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 04:25 PM
And why wouldn't the Nazis, including Hitler call themselves socialists? They were socialists and so was Mussolini. They just weren't the classical 19th century socialists whom they despised.They, along with their other socialist comrades were also fascists and socialists remain so today. With every attempt to nationalize sectors of the US economy..like energy and health care...and now banking and financial institutions they prove the point they are fascists as well as socialists.
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TINK unregistered
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posted September 18, 2008 05:30 PM
Now I'm scared and dizzy.IP: Logged |
jwhop Knowflake Posts: 2787 From: Madeira Beach, FL USA Registered: Apr 2009
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posted September 18, 2008 07:26 PM
You should take something for that. I recomend a double martini. IP: Logged |
venusdeindia unregistered
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posted September 19, 2008 02:03 AM
quote:
I certainly hope we're accessing local Indian intel more than the mass media would have us believe. In fact, the US needs to access India more in general, but, you know, God forbid we pisss off the neighbors.
ofcourse it is, we had a dozen newpieces,.... on how our Intelligence had finally made Bush see the light and he abandoned Musharraf, how ISI was still in bed with the militant agencies etc. ,and the US is now acting on them... i didnt get around to posting them See, there is such a thing as ..Rubbing it in...a tad toooo much IP: Logged | |