posted September 21, 2008 07:44 PM            

Ayn Rand :
Born: Feb 2 , 1905

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Capitalism is a social system based on the recognition of individual rights, including property rights, in which all property is privately owned.

The recognition of individual rights entails the banishment of physical force from human relationships: basically, rights can be violated only by means of force. In a capitalist society, no man or group may initiate the use of physical force against others. The only function of the government, in such a society, is the task of protecting man’s rights, i.e., the task of protecting him from physical force; the government acts as the agent of man’s right of self-defense, and may use force only in retaliation and only against those who initiate its use; thus the government is the means of placing the retaliatory use of force under objective control.

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When I say “capitalism,” I mean a full, pure, uncontrolled, unregulated laissez-faire capitalism—with a separation of state and economics, in the same way and for the same reasons as the separation of state and church.

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The moral justification of capitalism does not lie in the altruist claim that it represents the best way to achieve “the common good.” It is true that capitalism does—if that catch-phrase has any meaning—but this is merely a secondary consequence. The moral justification of capitalism lies in the fact that it is the only system consonant with man’s rational nature, that it protects man’s survival qua man, and that its ruling principle is: justice.

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The action required to sustain human life is primarily intellectual: everything man needs has to be discovered by his mind and produced by his effort. Production is the application of reason to the problem of survival . . . .

Since knowledge, thinking, and rational action are properties of the individual, since the choice to exercise his rational faculty or not depends on the individual, man’s survival requires that those who think be free of the interference of those who don’t. Since men are neither omniscient nor infallible, they must be free to agree or disagree, to cooperate or to pursue their own independent course, each according to his own rational judgment. Freedom is the fundamental requirement of man’s mind.

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It is the basic, metaphysical fact of man’s nature—the connection between his survival and his use of reason—that capitalism recognizes and protects.

In a capitalist society, all human relationships are voluntary. Men are free to cooperate or not, to deal with one another or not, as their own individual judgments, convictions, and interests dictate. They can deal with one another only in terms of and by means of reason, i.e., by means of discussion, persuasion, and contractual agreement, by voluntary choice to mutual benefit. The right to agree with others is not a problem in any society; it is the right to disagree that is crucial. It is the institution of private property that protects and implements the right to disagree—and thus keeps the road open to man’s most valuable attribute (valuable personally, socially, and objectively): the creative mind.

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It is . . . by reference to philosophy that the character of a social system has to be defined and evaluated. Corresponding to the four branches of philosophy, the four keystones of capitalism are: metaphysically, the requirements of man’s nature and survival—epistemologically, reason—ethically, individual rights, politically, freedom.

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The economic value of a man’s work is determined, on a free market, by a single principle: by the voluntary consent of those who are willing to trade him their work or products in return. This is the moral meaning of the law of supply and demand.

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The essence of capitalism’s foreign policy is free trade—i.e., the abolition of trade barriers, of protective tariffs, of special privileges—the opening of the world’s trade routes to free international exchange and competition among the private citizens of all countries dealing directly with one another.

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Laissez-faire capitalism is the only social system based on the recognition of individual rights and, therefore, the only system that bans force from social relationships. By the nature of its basic principles and interests, it is the only system fundamentally opposed to war.

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Capitalism cannot work with slave labor. It was the agrarian, feudal South that maintained slavery. It was the industrial, capitalistic North that wiped it out—as capitalism wiped out slavery and serfdom in the whole civilized world of the nineteenth century.

What greater virtue can one ascribe to a social system than the fact that it leaves no possibility for any man to serve his own interests by enslaving other men? What nobler system could be desired by anyone whose goal is man’s well-being?

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posted September 22, 2008 11:27 AM            

I like her a lot. I think a comparison with Palin flawed in fairly obvious ways for those who know anything about their lives.

I also think Rand missed the mark in her work. I don't know if altruism is an inborn quality in humans, or whether it's a conditioned response, but either way it's nearly impossible to live as selfishly as Rand would like people to.

posted September 22, 2008 12:32 PM            

I can understand that.

I am refraining from further comments as this is not a spiritual forum

posted September 22, 2008 01:10 PM            

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I am refraining from further comments as this is not a spiritual forum

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posted September 22, 2008 02:12 PM            

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To understand Palin you have to understand a bit of Ayn Rand - Mannu

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posted September 22, 2008 02:23 PM            

We were discussing if its ok to drill in Alaska. I was trying to highlight to her the morality involved in making such decisions. Palin is far more correct in my opinion whether she knows it or not. Palin wants to drill because she thinks her country needs it and has asked her to (from what I heard from her). It is just coincidence that Ayn and Palin happen to be aquas. I should have made it more clearer.

posted September 22, 2008 03:08 PM            

But she is very objective. And I like to keep it that way as much as possible if I bring her up while discussing political and Morality/Social issues. Out of respect for her.

posted September 22, 2008 05:54 PM            

A Turkey shoot contest with no Turkey in it

posted September 22, 2008 07:20 PM            

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Rand isn't all that spiritual

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From my studies, she lacked spirituality ,so please do go ahead Mannu.

I am not fond of her philosophy for that reason. She throws out the baby with the bathwater.

She and I do share an imbolc birthday

juni

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~
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted September 23, 2008 10:50 AM            

Ayn is an Atheist no doubt. She believes that man must reason than have faith.

posted September 23, 2008 11:59 AM            

Saving the best for last.

You will be the last one to know anything that I have to tell because you say you like her and not love her. If you really loved her, you can't remain a socialist

My advice : Reread her twice or thrice or more. We know you have an disadvantage in reading in english. You will get much of the objectivity that is needed. It is so lacking right now as evident in all your political posts.

And I am curious to know were you born in to the Dems (i.e inherited it from your parents?). Were you always a Dem?

posted September 23, 2008 01:16 PM            

In 2000, I was a McCain fan. When Bush got the nomination instead, I was forced to look elsewhere as Bush never showed himself as intellectual, though he sought to explain things as if he were a kindergarten teacher. That's when I started to look into politics.

The first forum I ever participated on was a FoxNews forum. Democrats always made the better arguments, and they impressed me as the more agile party. They aren't bound to old ideas for the sake of tradition.

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If you really loved her, you can't remain a socialist

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Who ever said I was a Socialist? Just as Eleanore is a Centrist who always seems to come down on the Right side of things, I am also a Centrist who comes down on the Left side of things. Like Bill Clinton, I also believe in personal responsibility, and I don't for one second believe Conservatives to have a monopoly on that.

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Reread her twice or thrice or more. We know you have an disadvantage in reading in english. You will get much of the objectivity that is needed. It is so lacking right now as evident in all your political posts.

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You should read her at least once before starting a thread on her.

Do you remember a conversation we had some time ago in Universal Codes? You asked some lame question about Jesus and enlightenment as if enlightenment could possibly mean "to make light." Remember that? I had to define the term for you, so that you could know that you used the term wrong. I don't think I'll be taking any English language advice from you any time soon. To do so would be folly.

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You have to go beyond spirituality when you speak on Atheists. A God forum is the right one when you speak on them.

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To speak of the godless, you have to speak on a God forum? How idiotic an excuse is that?

posted September 23, 2008 01:32 PM            

You see thats why I find your arguments the most unintelligent. I used the word "on" not "of". It is I that desired to speak therefore I get to chose the place. Just as you transitioned in your politics, the Godless has to transition to God.

Any how I also have to remind you the title of the post. "Capitalism: the unknown ideal". Pay attention to that word unknown.

I don't have to read her even once if I have read a few of her quotes. You will find it irrational But let me explain. Lets say you go to any part of the world and you come across an ocean, will you try to taste how that ocean is having tasted the pacific?

Keep exploring.

>>>You asked some lame question about Jesus and enlightenment as if enlightenment could possibly mean "to make light." Remember that

No I don't remeber. I said so many giberrish in the past which I don't remember. I was exploring as rest of us here. If you think that it is incomplete, remind me the context.

If you understand light, its closer to understanding enlightenment.

posted September 23, 2008 01:43 PM            

No probs.

I am switching tab at work LOL