posted November 07, 2008 07:32 AM            

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Encourage community service by students

"So when I'm president, I will set a goal for all American middle and high school students to perform 50 hours of community service a year, and for all college students to perform 100 hours of service a year."—12/5/07, Mt. Vernon, Iowa

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Obama's Campaign Promises

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America Serves

"When you choose to serve -- whether it's your nation, your community or simply your neighborhood -- you are connected to that fundamental American ideal that we want life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness not just for ourselves, but for all Americans. That's why it's called the American dream."

The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

Change.gov

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I was against forced volunteering as a high school student and am against it now. Because Obligating someone to volunteer their services for free is no longer Volunteering. It is forced servitude and is unconstitutional. The argument then was also that it would "help" you get into a better college ... and I can certainly see the logic in that since everyone was required to have the same minimum amount of service hours.

Somehow, I imagine this will turn into an issue of "don't you want to help your community?" instead of the Government Forcing Service on our citizens. An emotional argument versus one of reason regarding our constitutional rights. I doubt the same argument of "don't you want to help your country?" would work if we were talking about Forced Service in the Military. The point is not that people should not volunteer or be charitable or serve their country or whatever else. The point is that people should not be FORCED by the Government to do so. IMO. Where does any politician, left or right, get the right to mandate forced service without compensation for any of our citizens? Because, ah, as far as I can tell, legally obligating people to do community service has only been in effect as far as sentences for people who have Broken the law as a way to make amends for their actions. What have our highschool students, our college students, and even our elderly done to warrant that same manner of sentencing?

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And for many of you to get a real nice laugh at the "crazies" out there, I ran across this while looking over this topic:
Gateway Pundit

For one, Cuba and Venezuela cheering Obama's victory says a whole hell of a lot, to me. For two, if Pelosi is serious regarding a bullet tax ... I'd be stocking up before the end of the year if I was in the States. But that's just me, possibly just another "crazy" because I disagree with the recent majority.

posted November 07, 2008 09:21 AM            

I understand your fears BUT try not to jump to conclusions.

posted November 07, 2008 10:21 AM              

Eleanore, one of my step-daughters - the one that doesn't live with me - graduated from highschool this past summer. Volunteer work was required to graduate. Required. A student could have earned nothing but A's, but if the volunteer work wasn't done they didn't graduate. Insanity. Btw my other step-daughter - the one that does live with me - was sworn into the Army on the 5th. I can't decide if that will put me into a concentration camp, or help keep me out.

Anyway, I'm left wondering .... is it the 13th Amendment Obama considers flawed!?

posted November 08, 2008 12:15 AM            

So how are all these poor kids going to work their way through school (many since highschool) and find the time and energy to volunteer? What if they're taking higher level courses that require much more time for study/course work? Bah, who cares and besides the poor just barely get by, remember?! No advanced courses to worry about there, hmph. Are we going to provide free transportation for these kids to get around and do their "volunteer" forced service hours? Don't forget the rural kids, of course. College students? Does that include PT college students who are actually adults with full time careers and families? What about graduate students? And middle school students?! Are mom and dad going to get gas vouchers for driving their kids around where they need, are legally obligated, to go ... these children that aren't even old enough to have a paid job? Ignore also the poor families whose kids work in the family business, say, like the farm and who help in their spare time with selling produce and homemade goods, etc.

What guidelines are even going to be in effect as far as "approved" volunteering? Is there going to be an Obama Youth program? I'm assuming that volunteering at a religious organization isn't going to count ... neither is volunteering in any organization that threatens Obama's goals. Ie, could you volunteer and get credit for work for gay rights but not against? Or for abortion but not against?

I laugh because what else can you do?

posted November 08, 2008 12:38 AM            

Well, well, well. Looks like they've "changed" their minds. What I posted above from the change.gov site has now been changed.

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The Obama Administration will call on Americans to serve in order to meet the nation’s challenges. President-Elect Obama will expand national service programs like AmeriCorps and Peace Corps and will create a new Classroom Corps to help teachers in underserved schools, as well as a new Health Corps, Clean Energy Corps, and Veterans Corps. Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by setting a goal that all middle school and high school students do 50 hours of community service a year and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free. Obama will encourage retiring Americans to serve by improving programs available for individuals over age 55, while at the same time promoting youth programs such as Youth Build and Head Start.

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Oh, I'm going to need a lot more popcorn if we're starting out like this already. Obama's plan for CHANGE is beginning to make a lot more sense now.

posted November 08, 2008 01:42 AM              

It's about change. Get it? Change.

posted November 08, 2008 02:38 AM            

To further confound things, she's commenting on a change that happened to an idea she didn't like in the first place. The switch between outrage and lightheartedness appears to me to make the matter more superficial in her eyes. It makes me wonder if she takes the matter seriously, or does she take it as a joke?

Any ideas on why it would have changed over the course of a day? Probably the news outlets talking about it. I'm not surprised by the deftness of the response.
http://hotair.com/archives/2008/11/07/obama-website-hey-lets-make- community-service-compulsory-for-students/
http://www.t-g.com/blogs/brianmosely/entry/21976/
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/williams/081107
http://westernstandard.blogs.com/shotgun/2008/11/the-obama-draft.html

posted November 08, 2008 11:17 PM            

Oh, if you're tired of the jokes already, AG, I can't imagine what you'll be feeling for the next 4 years. Not from me, necessarily, either. That was his whole platform. CHANGE. You can't realistically expect references to that will just disappear.

As for the actual Change in wording regarding "volunteering", I wonder quite how they went from REQUIRED to "GOAL" and some sort of earned "tax credit". Do they mean it or did they realize that, even after being elected, most people don't take kindly to the idea of REQUIRED service? And how do they propose to pull those $4000 out of their hats? There's that sneaky word tax again. Or maybe this revised edition is what they meant all along? Who knows?

posted November 09, 2008 01:40 AM            

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As for the actual Change in wording regarding "volunteering", I wonder quite how they went from REQUIRED to "GOAL" and some sort of earned "tax credit"

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I read the subtext here, which is that you do read conservative sites (the reference to earned "tax credit"), which means that like others who seem to be quite easily swayed by what they read at those sites, you may be as well.

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And how do they propose to pull those $4000 out of their hats? There's that sneaky word tax again.

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As they might say on That 70's Show, "Oooh... burn. She said they're gonna tax people. Burn!"

Uh no. The "tax" word by definition is supposed to be the way that the government is funded. It's not the ONLY way the government can be funded, however, so funding his proposal through taxes isn't necessarily the way he'll go. He does have the charming Republican option of deficit spending, which I don't condone and which was anticipated to grow under either candidate's tax plan (as both were anticipated to not fund the government adequately). Personally, I tend to think that taxes are probably the more responsible way of going about funding our nation, but I haven't heard the argument in favor of extensive borrowing.

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I'll make one myself in keeping with the topic of forced service and some kind of Obama Youth program. (Jokingly, of course.) I can see more Change heading our way. Why don't they start with "Heil to the Chief" ?

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posted November 09, 2008 08:58 AM            

Secondly

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I read the subtext here, which is that you do read conservative sites (the reference to earned "tax credit"), which means that like others who seem to be quite easily swayed by what they read at those sites, you may be as well
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so funding his proposal through taxes isn't necessarily the way he'll go.

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Um, did you not even bother to read what change.gov Changed their position to? It's right there for you to look over ...

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and by developing a plan so that all college students who conduct 100 hours of community service receive a universal and fully refundable tax credit ensuring that the first $4,000 of their college education is completely free.

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posted November 09, 2008 12:18 PM            

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PS, neither can I understand how comparisons between Bush and Hitler were cool but now even jokes about Obama and Hitler are off limits.

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I'm not saying that they're off limits. I'm just saying that the excuse given for Jwhop's behavior over the many times we've discussed it, has been this sort of thing, so it is kind of ironic to see it come full circle.

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Um, did you not even bother to read what change.gov Changed their position to? It's right there for you to look over ...

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I'm sorry. I did misunderstand my own reading on this point. My apologies.

posted November 09, 2008 02:06 PM            

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was against forced volunteering as a high school student and am against it now.

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Amen..and yet as high schoolers we still HAD to volunteer otherwise colleges don't even look at your applications...

I don't like the fact that Obama is seen as such a savior God. People tend to forget that he is just another politician and got into politics exactly the same way everyone else did. And considering adversity he would have to be more cut throat than others to get this far anyways. He certainly didn't get elected by being so messiah like...thats not how politics works...And when you idealize a politician you, when you trust his decisions more than yours that is when Democracy TRULY dies...people are so obsessed with him they miss key points...he might be a good politician and hopefully a good president, but he needs to be checked like everyone else needed to be checked...

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Other countries practise this and compulsory military service.

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Thats true they do...and we look down at them for that...how many times do we say "oh those nations have a draft, thank God we don't"...

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I would definitely say NO to military service but community volunteering might actually be of benefit to young peopl.

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Only if they chose to do it...only if their school/college gave them extra credit or some kind of benefit to do it...not if they are forced...no one ever does a good or kind job when they are forced...furthermore the people that CHOOSE to do it are the kind of people that are empathic and enjoy working with others...not everyone is like that...and there is a limit of places one can volunteer so do we really want a situation when you have insensitive people working in positions where sensitivity is a must? Such a soup kitchens or crisis centers? There are a lot of awful jerks out there and I can guarantee you if they are forced to do something like that, there will be a person telling people to kill themselves on a crisis hotline... is that really necessary?

Change is great...in moderation

TINK - lmao re 13th amendment

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Yes, other countries. Americans, at least by traditional definition, don't take well to compulsery anything. Our first motto was "Don't tread on me". But I guess times are changing. I'm afraid we're willing to surrender a few freedoms if the government is willing to "take care of things".

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Yah! Since Pluto is entering Capricorn and thats the destruction of the father figure we forget important things our founding fathers did and said...

"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Ben Franklin

posted November 09, 2008 02:11 PM            

How long is that for?

Poor citizens they may have to forget abt their free credits? How cunningly Obama tapped in to the young citizen voters base.

posted November 09, 2008 02:20 PM            

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So how are all these poor kids going to work their way through school (many since highschool) and find the time and energy to volunteer? What if they're taking higher level courses that require much more time for study/course work? Bah, who cares and besides the poor just barely get by, remember?! No advanced courses to worry about there, hmph. Are we going to provide free transportation for these kids to get around and do their "volunteer" forced service hours? Don't forget the rural kids, of course. College students? Does that include PT college students who are actually adults with full time careers and families? What about graduate students? And middle school students?! Are mom and dad going to get gas vouchers for driving their kids around where they need, are legally obligated, to go ... t

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You said it lady...

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these children that aren't even old enough to have a paid job? Ignore also the poor families whose kids work in the family business, say, like the farm and who help in their spare time with selling produce and homemade goods, etc.

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My boyfriend works in a family business...its not a huge corporation its a small business that helps them meet their ends...barely...he often comes late to class because he doesn't have the time...his weekends are always busy...when the HECK is he going to volunteer...and then there is me...I am pretty much doing 2 internships, going to school full time, and working...i had quite a few nervous breakdowns because I am so stressed out...and you guys barely see me here anyways...im typing this up as i should be studying for an exam tomorrow...When am i going to volunteer...and mind you I don't get paid for internships...should that count as volunteering or should i do some more labor im not paid for...

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About the only thing our government seems unwilling to enforce is that grown ass people get a job and work to pay for their own needs and their families' needs

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SERIOUSLY! Immigrants get welfare but only for a little bit...less than a year sometimes before they get full time jobs...and thats how it should be...so why do i see Americans born here in NYC welfare buildings wearing 300$ shoes and playing around on their itouch phones...I don't have an Itouch...nor do I buy 300$ shoes because as a college student that would be ridiculous... so why doesn't someone just force me to go and work to help the people who take MY tax money and spend it on ridiculous luxury... Ha...13th Amendment indeed...

Okay well yes...the revision is nice and all...but I think Obama needs a reality check...Im currently applying to graduate school which is traumatic enough....most got for 32,000$ a year...and MOST city schools don't have the program I need anyway...and they accept like 5 people a year (no joke)... So 4,000$ for the college tuition will really barely even graze the price...and yet those 100 hours could be spend studying for exams to boost one's grades so that one can get a bunch of scholarships....

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To further confound things, she's commenting on a change that happened to an idea she didn't like in the first place. The switch between outrage and lightheartedness appears to me to make the matter more superficial in her eyes. It makes me wonder if she takes the matter seriously, or does she take it as a joke?

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Ermm...i believe Eleanore has made it quite clear already when she said that this is so ridiculous and scary at the same time that the only thing you can do is laugh...

I really do hope Obama will be a good president...this nation needs a strong and stable leader who will have the ideas and the strength of character to fix the problems that have come to be...Does Obama have the potential to do that? yes he does...but not by changing everything around...he can create change and yet utilize the ideals that have already been present in order to make a difference...

posted November 09, 2008 02:33 PM            

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Okay well yes...the revision is nice and all...but I think Obama needs a reality check...Im currently applying to graduate school which is traumatic enough....most got for 32,000$ a year...and MOST city schools don't have the program I need anyway...and they accept like 5 people a year (no joke)... So 4,000$ for the college tuition will really barely even graze the price...and yet those 100 hours could be spend studying for exams to boost one's grades so that one can get a bunch of scholarships....

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Those 400 hours of community service can help you form links, gain valuable insight in job-hunting, form all the right contacts, get you involved with the community and give you insight on valubale grounds for further exploration on your given career. Like you said yourself, 400 hours on a given job will barely cover anything; And the government is willing to make an investment in you in turn by providing an average income gain for the hours spend at a community service.

People need to come to Canada to see just how effective volunteering is. Its now maditory to give in 80 hours of community service to graduate. This program has actually helped the Canadian Trades related workforce a lot; Seeing how the decline in their sector threatened a huge gap and a market vaccume for skilled workers.

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Only if they chose to do it...only if their school/college gave them extra credit or some kind of benefit to do it...not if they are forced...no one ever does a good or kind job when they are forced...furthermore the people that CHOOSE to do it are the kind of people that are empathic and enjoy working with others...not everyone is like that...and there is a limit of places one can volunteer so do we really want a situation when you have insensitive people working in positions where sensitivity is a must? Such a soup kitchens or crisis centers? There are a lot of awful jerks out there and I can guarantee you if they are forced to do something like that, there will be a person telling people to kill themselves on a crisis hotline... is that really necessary?

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Sorry BUD but your view of voluteering is quite narrow. Volunteering service is not limited to commuunity welfare alone. It could be related to learning a new trades skill, help out at a commune, work with a co-op department, etc. etc. Like I said before, here in Canada, the Volunteering porgram help solidify a strong trades related workforce which inturn was threatened by the retiring baby-boomers and the lack of input and interest of youth in the related fields. After manditory volunteering was placed in, the Canadian youth had a chance to expore trades related area and most "trouble makers" actually had the opportunity to find stable jobs and become essential providers to the community.

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SERIOUSLY! Immigrants get welfare but only for a little bit...less than a year sometimes before they get full time jobs...and thats how it should be...so why do i see Americans born here in NYC welfare buildings wearing 300$ shoes and playing around on their itouch phones...I don't have an Itouch...nor do I buy 300$ shoes because as a college student that would be ridiculous... so why doesn't someone just force me to go and work to help the people who take MY tax money and spend it on ridiculous luxury... Ha...13th Amendment indeed...

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Again, extremely narrow view.

Most troubled families arise from the fact that most families can't seem to find the right way to get their children interested and instigated in providing for themselves. The public school system can only go so far in providing assistance with sports programs and the like (Yes I am not a big fan of the public school system.)

Manditory volunteering tackles the problem at its infant stage; Given the likehood that most troubled teens would have the opportunity to learn a specific trade or get experience in their interest field which inturn shall mobilize their interest in pursuing a given career. It does works and what's best about such programs is that it allows the private industry to work with youths and build communal trust and in turn break stigmas related to "fat cat" corporations, etc. etc. It allows companies to fulfill their triple bottom line and it allows the problem to be tackled at its infant stage.

posted November 09, 2008 03:01 PM            

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So how are all these poor kids going to work their way through school (many since highschool) and find the time and energy to volunteer? What if they're taking higher level courses that require much more time for study/course work? Bah, who cares and besides the poor just barely get by, remember?! No advanced courses to worry about there, hmph. Are we going to provide free transportation for these kids to get around and do their "volunteer" forced service hours? Don't forget the rural kids, of course. College students? Does that include PT college students who are actually adults with full time careers and families? What about graduate students? And middle school students?! Are mom and dad going to get gas vouchers for driving their kids around where they need, are legally obligated, to go ...

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Canada actually set up workshops and co-op program setup at its schools allowing certain corporations and firms, representing a diverse field of workgroups (finance, trades, law, medicine, etc.) to provide necessities like transportation, uniforms, etc. along with the possibility of earning scholarships for further studies. The companies happily did it. It allows them to tap in a demographic that is interested in their filed of work and give them early experience in their given area of work.

Works wonderfully.

posted November 09, 2008 03:28 PM            

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Those 400 hours of community service can help you form links, gain valuable insight in job-hunting, form all the right contacts, get you involved with the community and give you insight on valubale grounds for further exploration on your given career.

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Not necessarily...like i said there is a lot more college/high school/middle school students out there than good volunteering opportunities...and i doubt volunteering in a homeless shelter will get you much prospects for the future other than severe depression...in my case anyways...I cannot see people suffer like that without hating life...i know i know...not good...

Volunteering also includes cleaning up parks etc...volunteering in a hospital and working in a library which is what i did...i promise u its a lot less rewarding than it sounds...im not saying volunteering isnt an amazing thing that should be done...but it should be done BY choice and by people who want/can do it...

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Like you said yourself, 400 hours on a given job will barely cover anything; And the government is willing to make an investment in you in turn by providing an average income gain for the hours spend at a community service.

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Right I understand that...but that is only great if you have the time for Job # 3 or 4...sometimes there really is not enough hours in a day...

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People need to come to Canada to see just how effective volunteering is. Its now maditory to give in 80 hours of community service to graduate. This program has actually helped the Canadian Trades related workforce a lot; Seeing how the decline in their sector threatened a huge gap and a market vaccume for skilled workers.

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Right...but i betcha its not also mandatory to have at least 2-3 internships to get into graduate school...I am currently working with researchers for free...i don't get paid a penny...but that is something that fills my resume...should that count as volunteering? A friend of mine is interning in a hospital like 15 hours a week...should she also be forced to volunteer at a hospital some more? And is that really fair?

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Sorry BUD but your view of voluteering is quite narrow. Volunteering service is not limited to commuunity welfare alone. It could be related to learning a new trades skill, help out at a commune, work with a co-op department, etc. etc.

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No thats what internships are here for...working with any department where you are learning a new trade would be considered an internship and you would have to pass an interview as if you were getting hired for a job and you would have to work there as if it is your job, only difference is you don't get paid. Much of volunteering here is community based...and like i said there are a lot more students than there are "good" volunteering opportunities...and by the way in our high school we were given a list of what is considered appropriate volunteering...99.9% is community based...and not religious either...

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After manditory volunteering was placed in, the Canadian youth had a chance to expore trades related area and most "trouble makers" actually had the opportunity to find stable jobs and become essential providers to the community.

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Again thats why most internships here are mandatory...its impossible or close to impossible to get a job or a higher degree without having first interned in a field...having to volunteer on top of that would really screw people over.

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Most troubled families arise from the fact that most families can't seem to find the right way to get their children interested and instigated in providing for themselves.

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I am sorry but I feel that goes exactly with what I said...shouldn't being motivated in providing for yourself be a natural human thing? If people were allowed opportunities to provide for themselves and then chose not to take it, I don't think anyone should be giving them money. In fact I think those children should be offered jobs. You want to get ahead...get a job...

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Manditory volunteering tackles the problem at its infant stage; Given the likehood that most troubled teens would have the opportunity to learn a specific trade or get experience in their interest field which inturn shall mobilize their interest in pursuing a given career.

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Not really...most troubled teens need counseling, not to be forced to do jobs for equally troubled people...none of that blind leading the blind stuff...Again you are confusing volunteering with internships, which are in fact close to mandatory here...I would agree that individuals who are not in school AND not working should be "volunteering" if they are receiving government money...that I am completely for...but not people who are in school and have 2 jobs trying to support their family...no thanks, I feel they give back enough to the community anyways...And troubled teens ARE forced to volunteer...its called community service instead of jail if convicted of something...why should straight A high schoolers be forced to work along side juvenile delinquents... That will bring more trouble than its worth...

And what works in Canada doesn't have to work in the US...we are in fact a different nation with a very different mentality...And personally I don't want to see our mentality change too much...

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It does works and what's best about such programs is that it allows the private industry to work with youths and build communal trust and in turn break stigmas related to "fat cat" corporations, etc. etc

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I can just imagine Merrill Lynch giving some kid of the street an office volunteer job....yea freaking right...the only way they will accept kids in that manner is if they are cleaning the offices...otherwise youths do in fact get jobs in big corporations...like i said they are called internships, and people go through EXTENSIVE interview processes to get them...

Im speaking from a NYC point of view. You may say its limited but that is in fact a reality here...

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Canada actually set up workshops and co-op program setup at its schools allowing certain corporations and firms, representing a diverse field of workgroups (finance, trades, law, medicine, etc.) to provide necessities like transportation, uniforms, etc. along with the possibility of earning scholarships for further studies

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Again...INTERNSHIPS...thats what internships are for...this is what people do...they are already pretty mandatory...Obama is talking about adding community volunteering...thats what Eleanore's article was about...COMMUNITY based volunteering....

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Just because its a government backed idea doesn't means the private sector can't help.

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They can but i doubt they will be forced to

posted November 09, 2008 04:00 PM            

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No thats what internships are here for...working with any department where you are learning a new trade would be considered an internship and you would have to pass an interview as if you were getting hired for a job and you would have to work there as if it is your job, only difference is you don't get paid. Much of volunteering here is community based...and like i said there are a lot more students than there are "good" volunteering opportunities...and by the way in our high school we were given a list of what is considered appropriate volunteering...99.9% is community based...and not religious either...

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Lol! Now I see the problem here. Its down the interpertation of the word Voluteering. Now I don't know about the programs in USA and just how diverse the voulteering opportunities are but Intership sweets isn't viable with highschool placements. Intership usually kicks in at the recommended age of 17; Is usually contracted and doesn't gives leeway to possible expansion in other fields of work or interest (because at this time, its usually assumed that you're in this program of interest for good.)

Volunteering can be considered a more... "open" form of intership. At this moment, you're given the opportunity for more exploration and experience building.

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Right...but i betcha its not also mandatory to have at least 2-3 internships to get into graduate school...I am currently working with researchers for free...i don't get paid a penny...but that is something that fills my resume...should that count as volunteering? A friend of mine is interning in a hospital like 15 hours a week...should she also be forced to volunteer at a hospital some more? And is that really fair?

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Again, going back to my previous argument, the school board with the parent council can decide upon what private institutions can be placed in for "volunteering" status. In Canada, we have quite many prestigious positions open for pages in probonal law work but at the same time, there have had been cases where private firm interships have been drafted in as "volunteering" time.

Like I said... The Private sector can help.

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and by the way in our high school we were given a list of what is considered appropriate volunteering...99.9% is community based...and not religious either...

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... All of which will be ammended once Volunteering becomes a necessity rather then a backwater option. Trust me, the co-op department in Canada expanded three folds after the 80 hour manditory draft.

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Not really...most troubled teens need counseling, not to be forced to do jobs for equally troubled people...none of that blind leading the blind stuff...Again you are confusing volunteering with internships, which are in fact close to mandatory here...I would agree that individuals who are not in school AND not working should be "volunteering" if they are receiving government money...that I am completely for...but not people who are in school and have 2 jobs trying to support their family...no thanks, I feel they give back enough to the community anyways...And troubled teens ARE forced to volunteer...its called community service instead of jail if convicted of something...why should straight A high schoolers be forced to work along side juvenile delinquents... That will bring more trouble than its worth...

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Again I have made the seperation between vounteering and intership. See above argument for details. And who says that there can't be given exceptions to cases? I say the law can be ammended to give certain cases a break where there is no possibility to give in volunteering time and do other essential work. A straight A high school student has the opportunity to place himself with private firms and get first hand experience without the hastle of "intership contractral" agreements and has security to keep the deliquintes out of his hair .

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can just imagine Merrill Lynch giving some kid of the street an office volunteer job....yea freaking right...the only way they will accept kids in that manner is if they are cleaning the offices...otherwise youths do in fact get jobs in big corporations...like i said they are called internships, and people go through EXTENSIVE interview processes to get them...

Im speaking from a NYC point of view. You may say its limited but that is in fact a reality here...

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Again... See above.

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COMMUNITY based volunteering...

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THAT Lol! IMO there needs to be ammended. I say make volunteering as a whole viable; Not just limited to the community. My argument here is pro manditory volunteer work.

posted November 09, 2008 06:22 PM            

Not lets check reality...all of this will probably go as follows...with volunteering made a graduation necessity, the kids that are doing good work and keeping up with their studies will inevitably have to do this as well..those are usually the kids allocating that time to extra curricular activities (which by the way give u better connections than soup kitchens) anyways. The delinquents that are barely passing and the ones that you say cause trouble, will ignore the rule and thus inevitably not graduate...and therefore without the diploma they will be in an even worse position than they would have been otherwise...

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Is usually contracted and doesn't gives leeway to possible expansion in other fields of work or interest (because at this time, its usually assumed that you're in this program of interest for good.)

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Not quite how that works here at all actually...one does pick an internship in a place one thinks is close to a projected career...but its sometimes done as early as 14...and kids are always free to choose different majors etc...they are of course different sort of internships than I would be doing for example.

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Volunteering can be considered a more... "open" form of intership. At this moment, you're given the opportunity for more exploration and experience building.

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See Xodian its a question of cultural difference...in my experience in NYC school that is not what volunteering is whatsoever in fact 90% of youths that I know volunteer in either 1) libraries 2) hospitals 3) soup kitchens 4) parks...

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All of which will be ammended once Volunteering becomes a necessity rather then a backwater option.

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Honestly I don't think Obama meant that when he said volunteering will be a necessity.

posted November 09, 2008 06:37 PM            

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Highschoolers here do in fact get internships. But think about a regular high school in NYC. Im not talking about the really good ones or the really bad ones, just an average school...30 hours a week are already spent there on classes...Plus lets say 5 hours a week on extra curricular...so 35...thats already close to a full time job. So Bloomberg is a big fan of homework so every teacher (is supposed to) assign about and hour of homework a day...at least...some assign less, some assign more...and in the HS that I went to, 2-2.5 was standard...so say a student takes 5-6 major classes that assign even an hour of homework a DAY...thats 5 extra hours a day x 5 days = 25 extra hours a week...at least...making that 60 hours a week spent on school activities...Not counting exam days and projects...so please tell me how an average 15 year old should be glad to be forced to put in an extra 50 hours a year...yes thats less than one hour a week..but lets get serious NO place accepts students for an hour a week...so that means most will wait till the summer and spend their entire summers doing volunteering...im sure they will be so happy and grateful about it, they will immediately forget about all the delinquent activities they planned to carry out...

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Sweets, again you're seeing this as a strict "no change senerio." You're assuming that the 400 hour placement... PERIOD. As if that's the written dogmatic placement and that there is no exception to it.

Again, I am gonna have to cite the Canadian Model. Athletes for instance in Canada and those who are involved with strong extra-ciricular activities and are proven attendence to that program obviously get their hours reduced. HOWEVER they ahve to prove that they are committed to the program in quesiton which involves attendence check and progress reports.

Obama has to have mandates to which he will place in exceptions sweets. Its not like he is an elected Hobo Lol!

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See Xodian its a question of cultural difference...in my experience in NYC school that is not what volunteering is whatsoever in fact 90% of youths that I know volunteer in either 1) libraries 2) hospitals 3) soup kitchens 4) parks...

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... Could very well be because the volunteer program was so limited in its ability to attract wider crowds to to its small stature. Like I said, it evolved here after it was made a manditory requirement (with obvious exceptions to given situations... Think I have to emphisize that one again.)

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Honestly I don't think Obama meant that when he said volunteering will be a necessity.

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He didn't say that it WOULDN'T happen. So I want to see the full proclamation to this before making any further comments.

posted November 09, 2008 08:24 PM            

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Obama will call on citizens of all ages to serve America, by developing a plan to require 50 hours of community service in middle school and high school and 100 hours of community service in college every year.

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Its still talking specifically about community service.

Either way i completely agree with Eleanore that forced volunteering is no longer volunteering, it is completely unconstitutional and goes against the 13th amendment.

I understand what you are saying about the Canadian model, but even proposing that goes against our constitution. I think it should be encouraged, and kids should be provided that option but it should not be mandatory. I don't think it is necessary at all...I understand it works well in Canada, but so do a lot of other things that are not present here. US is a different nation and should not suddenly change all that made it unique...