Lindaland
  Global Unity
  The money has to come from SOMEWHERE...

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq | search

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   The money has to come from SOMEWHERE...
NosiS
Moderator

Posts: 160
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 10:59 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Obama Proposes Permanent Death Tax in a Footnote
by Dick Patten
03/12/2009

What’s the difference between President Obama and an eighth-grade student?

The student knows the proper way to use a footnote.

Footnotes are generally used to disclose sources or to explain an obscure fact. They are not used to recommend massive tax policy changes. Yet this is just what Obama does in his Fiscal Year 2009 Budget Proposal.

Slog through the budget to page 127, and see footnote 1, which states, “[T]he estate tax is maintained at its 2009 parameters.” What does this mean?

Under current law enacted by the Bush tax relief of 2001, the death tax is scheduled to be repealed for one year in 2010. Due to complex Senate budget reconciliation rules, the tax then comes back at the rate of 55% in 2011. Obama’s footnote assumes that Congress will cancel the temporary repeal and make the death tax permanent at the rate of 45%.

President Bush and most of the Republicans have been fighting to make repeal permanent for the last eight years. This change would render all those efforts asunder.

That’s a pretty significant policy proposal. Why is Obama hiding it deep in his budget in a footnote? Is there a reason to be so secretive?

Oh, right. Obama has probably heard that taxes which punish people for saving and investing don’t help the economy. He may have read reports from his own chief economic advisor, Larry Summers, who has said that the death tax is bad policy.

Economists on the left and the right agree -- the death tax takes a huge bite out of productive capital in the economy. Two of President Clinton’s chief economic advisors -- Joseph Stiglitz and Alicia Munnell -- have written extensively about the impact of the tax on capital.

The Joint Economic Committee has calculated that the death tax reduces the stock of capital in the economy by $847 billion. That is $847 billion that can’t be used to start new businesses, expand existing operations, and create new jobs.

Obama probably realizes that in a time of economic turmoil, confiscating nearly half the capital of productive businesses is the last thing the federal government should do, especially if he is concerned about job creation.

The American Family Business Foundation’s new study by Dr. Douglas Holtz-Eakin finds that the death tax is responsible for lowering overall employment by 1.5 million jobs.

In the case of family owned businesses and farms, the loss of any capital can have a devastating impact on the survival of the enterprise. Family owned businesses are highly reliant on inheritances to finance the business and keep it viable. When the death tax confiscates a substantial portion of the inheritance, it makes it difficult for the heirs to maintain the business.

Obama has probably heard the stories of family business owners who are wiped out by the death tax or who are forced to cut jobs in order to keep the business running. In Biloxi, Miss., the Mavar family was forced to sell their multi-generational family business to a large national corporation due to looming death tax liabilities. They hoped that the corporation would keep the business and its jobs in Biloxi, but within five years, the entire business was relocated out of state.

The Mavars’ story is just one of the many stories that describe the real human costs of the death tax.

And of course, Obama might realize that taxing those who work hard, save and invest, and leave an inheritance to their children, is simply unjust. People who have already paid taxes on their income shouldn’t be punished for being responsible throughout their life and creating wealth and jobs for others.

68% of Americans agree that the death tax is unjust and should be repealed. These same Americans certainly do not support permanently shackling the nation with a 45% death tax.

Clearly, Obama doesn’t want to hurt his popularity by promoting the hated death tax. Ergo, rather than openly supporting the tax, President Obama is promoting it on the sly in his budget proposal.

All thanks to clever use of a footnote.

Of course, this is only the budget proposal, and it will not determine the future of the death tax. Even so, it sets the tone for the administration’s policy goals and their tactical mindset.

Clearly, if Obama can’t be upfront about the tax plans in his budget proposal, he knows that he faces strong opposition.

Let’s see how long he can keep his secret.
http://www.humanevents.com/article.php?id=31037

IP: Logged

sunshine_lion
unregistered
posted March 12, 2009 12:48 PM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
this doesn't surprise me one bit. I think as time goes on we will find a lot of this sort of thing.

it is a shame.

IP: Logged

katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 6216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 02:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
i'm a little confused. as i understand it you(article) is saying that the death tax is currently at 45% and that 2010 was set to be a "holiday" year for death tax followed by a hike to 55%?

and the above would = 2009 paramaters, no, since that is where they stand now?

or are we saying that it would stand at the current rate of 45% with no holiday and no hike to 55%?

IP: Logged

katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 6216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

IP: Logged

NosiS
Moderator

Posts: 160
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 02:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for NosiS     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"or are we saying that it would stand at the current rate of 45% with no holiday and no hike to 55%?"


Yes, that's correct.

IP: Logged

katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 6216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 04:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
so in a few years it would actually come to less although in 2010 people would have to pay instead of getting a break? so we can't plan to die in '10 and save a packet for our families?? jeesh!

i wonder though why this is an issue...before my mother died she had taken the time to create an account which just rolled over to me and my sisters...bingo, NO DEATH TAX WHATSOEVER.

so what is the difference here?

IP: Logged

Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted March 12, 2009 07:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I personally think a trust fund is the smartest alternative, regardless of how high or low any death tax may be. Not that I favor higher taxes at all but surely we must all be aware that if the government could tax you for breathing, they would. Trust funds make sense for most people who have any sorts of assets to leave behind, not just "rich" people. You have to jump through hoops and pay out of your arse to get anything out of a will and if it's contested? Forget about it.

The only downside I see to a trust fund is the original expense in setting one up. But, in the long run, ~ a couple thousand dollars to preserve a home, savings, investments, etc and have them roll over automatically to loved ones sans a legal battle and exorbitant taxes doesn't really seem like that much money, imo.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 24, 2010 12:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*bump*

------------------
"The stars which shone over Babylon and the stable in Bethlehem still shine as brightly over the Empire State Building and your front yard today. They perform their cycles with the same mathematical precision, and they will continue to affect each thing on earth, including man, as long as the earth exists." Linda Goodman

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 07, 2011 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

------------------
"Don't worry about the world coming to an end today. It's already tomorrow in Australia." Charles Schultz

IP: Logged

katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 6216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 07, 2011 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in other words the socalled death tax is irrelevant, and the richer you are the less relevant it gets, since the wealthy have their trusts and foundations and rollovers all set up long before they die. those who don't bother with this sort of thing will be hit with the tax but it's not like they haven't had plenty of time to work it out...

and even the poor can get cheap legal aid (if they have anything to leave behind) to set up the same sort of structures.

the year i "inherited" ie the accounts rolled over from my mother to me, i had a tax REFUND from the state...so "death tax" constitutes little threat except for the terminally disorganized.

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 08, 2011 11:31 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Most people die without even having a will, much less a complex estate plan.

------------------
"No pain, no palm; no thorns, no throne; no gall, no glory; no cross, no crown." William Penn

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 09, 2011 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Is it true that Florida has no death tax?

------------------
"Cooking is like love. It should be entered into with abandon or not at all." Harriet Van Horne

IP: Logged

katatonic
Knowflake

Posts: 6216
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 09, 2011 11:44 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
true, randall, but most RICH people do NOT die intestate. and their children do not pay much death tax either. everything is organized well ahead of time.

most people die with little to leave, so natch they will not be paying a lawyer to make sure it's doled out correctly. apparently 95% of us leave little to nothing behind!

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 18, 2011 09:05 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lot of people die with a house and no planning.

------------------
"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 12, 2011 10:41 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lot of people have no savings or investments, but have a home.

------------------
"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

IP: Logged

Randall
Webmaster

Posts: 7491
From: The Goober Galaxy
Registered: Apr 2009

posted April 13, 2011 11:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
By retirement age, I mean.

------------------
"All deaths are suicides, do you realize that? Every single one. The only distinction is that, with some people, suicide is a subconscious choice, and with others it's a conscious choice. Otherwise, those who commit suicide and those who succumb to accident, illness or "old age," die for exactly the same reason: belief in the inevitability of death." Linda Goodman

IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2011

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a