Lindaland
  For Yellow Wax And The Ants
  The Objectification of Violence In Life and Art

Post New Topic  Post A Reply
profile | register | preferences | faq

UBBFriend: Email This Page to Someone! next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   The Objectification of Violence In Life and Art
Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted March 27, 2005 12:30 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 30, 2008 01:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*bump*

IP: Logged

Xodian
Moderator

Posts: 275
From: Canada
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 30, 2008 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
How did they all handle it? Well when it comes down to it the gruesome truth remains; That violence needs to exist inorder for people to appreciate the goodness in others. As I have mentioned many times over, if Violence or evil for that matter didn't exist, would Good action can be defined as good actions anymore? How would be know what good is, if there isn't a polar opposite to present a relitive point to? That's the thing with us humans; We need a point of relitivity inorder to define and "measure" things. Just take time for instance.

Then well, someone might say "Is all this violence really necessary?" Does that much evil really needs to exist? Well... We aren't omnipitent beings now aren't we. We don't know that. What we do know that it does indeed exists and so does good.

IP: Logged

AcousticGod
Knowflake

Posts: 4088
From: Pleasanton, CA
Registered: Apr 2009

posted January 30, 2008 04:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can I get away with only responding to the Spielberg part? Personally I prefer a more artistic treatment of violence in film. I don't need or desire super realism. I don't think Spielberg did either. He probably filmed it as he'd prefer to watch it himself.

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted January 30, 2008 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I hear you AG, but these films are presented as serious meditations upon man's inhumanity to man, and the most disturbing period in world history. We arent exactly talking about the Bourne Identity here.

IP: Logged

Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 01, 2008 10:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Film isn't life, though and can never be really real. It's always filtered by someone else for you ... someone else literally presenting violence for you to watch while you are externally safe. If you want real then walk straight into the midst of violence with your eyes open. But be prepared to die.

I do think the ... romanticizing ... of violence is not only disturbing but very telling of our presumably civilized and safe world. Where people used to face life-threatening violence on a regular basis (and many in the world still do) there are many of us today who don't. So why are we choosing to live vicariously, whether as a hero or villain or victim or any mix of the three, through media? It's voyeuristic, sure, but is it more than that? Just look at gaming ... it's as though there's a hardwired "be a hero" gene in alot of people although the reality of a flabby, pallid, plugged in guy isn't at all "heroic". When did we transfer over to a virtual world for our heroic or villainous impulses without question? And is it better than the alternative? (Not suggesting an answer, actually asking.) Looking back through history, violence has proven to be inspiring to artists of all kinds, about as inspiring as love. Why is that? Like Xodian, I've been considering the necessity of it all for some time. I think it is simply because it is. And if it ever isn't then it's because it no longer will be.

I don't appreciate gore in movies but find fiction that glosses over the violence, when it's supposed to be a central theme in the work, to be disappointing. Some of us are more sensitive to visual imagery than others and don't really want "realistic" images in our films. Yet, surprisingly, real life trauma and/or death doesn't have the same frightening impact, at least not on me. I think that's because it is real, it's not set up to be attention getting or striking or free of involvement. It's there and you must accept it and deal with it and make your peace with it if you can. The only "realistic" violence I don't find insulting in film is in documentaries, because it's raw and it's honest, unglamourized, yet I still find it quite disturbing. But at that point it isn't just an image thing any more, either.

(PS, not bashing gaming.)

IP: Logged

Heart--Shaped Cross
Newflake

Posts: 0
From:
Registered: Nov 2010

posted February 01, 2008 02:29 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heart--Shaped Cross     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"When did we transfer over to a virtual world for our heroic or villainous impulses without question?"

I dont think this is anything new.
People have always told stories and acted things out,
especially the flabby, pallid people.
Now its just more sophisticated.
More or less.


"Looking back through history, violence has proven to be inspiring to artists of all kinds, about as inspiring as love. Why is that?"

The rock that catches our foot catches our attention.

Peace is smooth and nothing about it catches the eye;
nothing other than the contrast to war and conflict.

You want raw, honest, unglamorized,
documentary-style violence?

Have you seen The Grey Zone?


IP: Logged

Eleanore
Moderator

Posts: 112
From: Okinawa, Japan
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 01, 2008 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Eleanore     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, hell, now I don't actually want violence. Artistic violence doesn't bother me so long as it isn't "fake real". It can't really be both. Like with Schindler's List. It didn't bother me that it was artsy because I wasn't expecting a documentary about the holocaust. I've seen those. It ain't fiction. And I really do love fiction and part of that, at least for me, is about how people can express their own filtered visions of life freely ... because we're all filtered, imo. I find it more palatable for someone to express their vision of violence, their perception, their understanding, whether or not I agree with their perspective, than I do for someone to orchestrate violence and attempt to present it as though it were real ... because it isn't real, no matter how real they may want it to seem. Like the difference between, say, an actual holocaust survivor retelling their experiences simply cannot compare to you or I retelling our experiences about watching a movie or reading a book about the holocaust. And I'm not trying to judge the "value" of either experience. Documentaries that contain actual violence are very disturbing but it is because they are real. What real people actually do to themselves and each other. And there are those moments when we have to tell ourselves to keep watching or walk away, you know?

However, I do try to keep my viewing of graphic violence or horror to a minimum as I'm a very visual person. Whereas a novel may disturb me, no visions will haunt me because I'm in charge of them. When a frightening image is presented to me, then it somehow manages to replay itself, seemingly against my will, and I have to work at shutting it down. It doesn't matter so much that it's make-up and lighting in the middle of the night.

And, no, I haven't seen The Grey Zone. I'd really like to hear what you could share about it if you have the time. I added it to our rather long netflix list but maybe I'll bump it if you can help nudge me in that direction.

But I'm thinking violence is more than attention grabbing. Chaos brought forth Order, War and Love brought forth Harmony. In a Universe that is perhaps singular in energy, our own slice of world operates within dualities and we are more or less confined by them. Is there something we need from this experience? I don't believe that our experiences here are gratuitous. I'd rather fall, get hurt and have at least the choice (or the idea of a choice) to get back up than be a tender little piece of future veal with no choice whatsoever in the matter. And I think it's those choices that inspire us to progress as humans. Sure, the pendulum swings and the backlash comes and goes. But people appear to need Great Causes for or against which to fight. And as long as people feel the need to be heroes then they will need some form of villain to fight ... and as long as people desire to commit themselves to violence then so will there be people who desire to bring their ideas of peace and justice to the world. And it's interesting, to me, that often tangled up with violence we find Love in one of its many forms. We also have a nasty habit of not appreciating what we have when all is good and right in our individual worlds. Part of it, imo, is guilt ... that long, drummed in guilt of having more or being more or wanting more when so many others have so little. But I think a greater part of it is the desire to do something you perceive as "good" for others and thereby define your own life as having a meaningful purpose. Where is where we screw up with peace, in the end. Peace simply is and yet we all seem to work so hard at merely becoming. The whole stand-in-the-stream-and-let-it-flow-around-you concept or, even simpler ....

Row row row your boat
Gently down the stream
Merrily Merrily Merrily Merrily
Life is but a Dream.

Why do so many of us choose a nightmare instead?

IP: Logged

MysticMelody
Moderator

Posts: 1036
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted February 01, 2008 11:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for MysticMelody     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote


IP: Logged

All times are Eastern Standard Time

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  Post A Reply
Hop to:

Contact Us | Linda-Goodman.com

Copyright © 2010

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46a