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Topic: Codependent
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Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 15, 2007 03:19 AM
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sue g unregistered
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posted January 15, 2007 06:37 AM
Fantastic !!!!!!Who is it about Steve? Are you allowed to say Loved it anyway, very real and "earthed" IP: Logged |
naiad unregistered
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posted January 15, 2007 08:54 AM
wow.... sing of finer things....of what you sing already is so fine. IP: Logged |
hippichick Knowflake Posts: 537 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted January 15, 2007 10:10 AM
Beautiful!!!!!(re-minds me of why I re-main single ) Blessings to you, Steve Terri
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Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 15, 2007 11:19 AM
Thanks.It's about one of my relatives. IP: Logged |
hippichick Knowflake Posts: 537 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted January 16, 2007 10:48 AM
I think we live in a co-dependent society, I see it every day, with my patients and their families, my own family, my "friends" and their loved ones, people in general!!!Too bad more folks can not move toward a greater self-actualization, I think our society is, slowly, but in the right direction, anyway!! IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 16, 2007 12:08 PM
hey Terri,I think its a very complex issue. There is a fine line between emotional honesty, openness, availability (vulnerability), and soul-smothering codependency; between being human, and being "too human". And, to some extent, I suppose it is also a question of personal taste. This is an excerpt from Care of the Soul by Thomas Moore: "When people observe the ways in which the soul is manifesting itself, they are enriched rather than impoverished. They receive back what is theirs, the very thing they have assumed to be so horrible that it should be cut out and tossed away. When you regard the soul with an open mind, you begin to find messages that lie within the illness, the corrections that can be found in remorse and other uncomfortable feelings, and the necessary changes requested by depression and anxiety. "Let me give some examples of how we might enrich rather than deprive ourselves in the name of emotional well-being. "A thirty-year-old woman comes to me for therapy and confesses, 'I have a terrible time in relationships because i become too dependent. Help me be less dependent.' "I am being asked to take some soul stuff away. I should go to my toolbox and take out a scalpel, extractor, and suction pump. Instead, on the principle of observance, and not inclined in any case to this kind of pilfering, I ask, 'What is it you find difficult about dependence?' "'It makes me feel powerless. Besides, it isnt good to be too dependent. I should be my own person.' "'How do you know when your dependency is too much?' I reply, still trying to speak for the sould expression of dependency. "'When I don't feel good about myself.' "'I wonder,' I continued in the same direction, 'if you could find a way to be dependent without feeling disempowered? After all, we all depend on each other every minute of the day.' "And so the talk continues. The woman admits she has always simpy assumed that independence is good and dependence bad. I notice from the conversation that despite all her enthusiasm for independence, she doesnt seem to enjoy much of it in her life. She is identified with the dependency and sees liberation on the other side. She has also unconsciously bought into the prevailing notion that independence is healthy and that we should correct the soul when it shows some desire for dependence. "This woman is asking me to help her get rid of the dependent face of her soul. But that would be a move against her soul. The fact that her dependency is making itself felt doesnt mean it should be bludgeoned or surgically removed; it may be asserting itself because it needs attention. Her heroic championing of independence might be a way of avoiding and repressing the strong need of something in her to be dependent. I try offering some words of dependence that don't have the connotations of wimpiness that seem to bother her. "'Dont you want to be attached to people, learn from them, get close, rely on friendships, get advice from someone you repsect, be part of a community where people need each other, find intimacy with someone that is so delicious you can't live without it?' "'Of course,' she says. 'Is that dependence?' "'It sounds like it to me,' I reply, 'and like everything else, you can't have it without its shadows: its neediness, inferiority, submission and loss of control.' "I had the feeling this woman, as seems often the case, was avoiding intimacy and friendship by focusing these qualities into a caricature of excessive dependency. At times we live these caricatures, thinking we are being masochistically dependent, when what we actually are doing is avoiding deep involvement with people, society, and live in general. "Observing what the soul is doing and hearing what it is saying is a way of 'going with the symptom'. The temptation is to compensate, to be drawn toward the opposite of what is presented. A person fully identified with dependency thinks that health and happiness lies in the achievement of independence. But thar move into opposites is deceptive. Oddly, it keeps the person in the same problem, only from the opposite side. The wis for independence maintains the same split. A homeopathis move, going with what is presented rather tan against it, is to learn how to be dependent in a way that is satisfying and not so extreme as to split dependency off from independence."
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Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 16, 2007 12:23 PM
Another passage may help illustrate Moore's thinking:"Often care of the soul means not taking sides when there is a conflict at a deep level. It may be necessary to stretch the heart wide enough to embrace contradiction and paradox. "A man in his fifties came to me once and told me with considerable embarrassment that he had fallen in love. "'I feel stupid,' he said, 'like an adolescent.' "I hear this often, that love arouses the adolescent. Anyone familiar with the history of art and literature knows that from the Greeks on down love has been portrayed as an untamable teenager. "'Oh, you have something against this adolescent?' "'Am I ever going to grow up?' he asked in frustration. "'Maybe not,' I said. 'Maybe there are things in you that will never grow up, maybe they shouldn't grow up. Doesnt this sudden influx of adolescence make you feel young, energetic and full of life?' "'Yes,' he said, 'and also silly, immature, confused and crazy.' "'But that's adolescence,' I responded, 'It sounds to me like the Old Man in you is berating the Youth. Why make being a grown up the supreme value? Or, maybe I should ask, who in you is claiming that maturity is so important? It's that Old Man, isn't it?' "I wanted to speak for the figure who was being judged and attacked. This man had to find enough space in him to allow both the Old Man and the Youth to have a place, to speak to each other and over time, maybe over his entire lifetime, to work out some degree of reconciliation. It takes more than a lifetime to resolve such conflicts. In fact, the conflict itself is creative and perhpas should never be healed. By giving each figure its voice, we let the soul speak and show itself as it is, not as we wish it would be. By defending the adolescent, being careful not to take sides against the mature figure, I showed my interest in his soul, and the man had an opportunity to find a way to contain this archetypal conflict of youth and age, maturity and immaturity. In the course of such a debate, the soul becomes more complex and spacious."
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hippichick Knowflake Posts: 537 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted January 16, 2007 02:18 PM
Very nice, Steve,,,I have that book, have read it atleast twice and I just finished Moore's "Soul Mates" for the 3rd time~~I believe, when talking co-dependency from a soul level, we must consider the individual soul. The soul, according to Moore NEEDS attachment, it attaches itself to the past, what it has known, but takes flight from time to time. I think that depending on where one is on his/her spiritual path will determine how much attachment the particular soul needs. I have seen the ugly dance of co-dependency begin a swift downward spiral of souls in union, create an escalating trap of false thinking of "need." I still have to promote autonomy, while appreciating and re-cognizing the need for attachment of the soul, co-dependency, I believe is unhealthy~~~ Blessings Terri IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 17, 2007 01:04 AM
Hey,Well put. I would agree. When you say that, where the soul is on the path will determine the level of dependency, do you mean to suggest that it is linear, and the further along on the path one is, the less dependent one will be? Or, do you suspect, as I do, that there are many twists in the path, and the soul is tested with various afflictions according to its development, so that, in fact, a strong urge for dependency may sometimes be the cross of a highly developed soul? I will have to read Soul Mates. Thanks. Stephen IP: Logged |
hippichick Knowflake Posts: 537 From: Registered: May 2009
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posted January 17, 2007 09:38 AM
SteveI agree with theory No. 2. I think that is what makes the soul the soul, all of the trials and tribulations, ups and downs~~~ I have said often to myself lately that it seems the higher I ascend (spiritually) the deeper I fall back to the abyss, BUT, the quicker I am able to re-ascend again! Terri ps. Soul Mates is a great book, gives quite a different perspective on many aspects of soul in human form!!! IP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 19, 2007 08:14 PM
Terri, I like the old analogy of the aspirants climbing the ladder to Heaven. What matters is not the height to which they have risen, but the rate of their ascention. Of course, rest, and, as Moore says, even stagnation, seems to have a place. Alas, every analogy crumbles at the brink. It's work enough to show one link. love to you, Steve
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InLoveWithLife unregistered
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posted January 19, 2007 09:41 PM
oh my gawd.....what was i doing, missing all THIS!! steve that poem is beautiful....i am going to copy it and save it hope u dont mind. its really earthy...i looooved it ILWL IP: Logged |
Bluemoon unregistered
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posted January 22, 2007 09:34 AM
love it, SteveIP: Logged |
Heart--Shaped Cross Newflake Posts: 0 From: Registered: Nov 2010
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posted January 22, 2007 04:30 PM
Thank you. IP: Logged |
MysticMelody Moderator Posts: 1036 From: Registered: Apr 2009
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posted January 04, 2008 10:46 PM
quote:
"'Dont you want to be attached to people, learn from them, get close, rely on friendships, get advice from someone you repsect, be part of a community where people need each other, find intimacy with someone that is so delicious you can't live without it?'"'Of course,' she says. 'Is that dependence?' "'It sounds like it to me,' I reply, 'and like everything else, you can't have it without its shadows: its neediness, inferiority, submission and loss of control.'
~Thomas Moore from excerpt in previous post in this thread
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sinderlou unregistered
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posted January 10, 2008 11:48 AM
Love your words HSC!IP: Logged | |