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Author Topic:   the ponderings of the melancholic philosopher
listenstotrees
Knowflake

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From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 01, 2010 08:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
Ever get the feeling that you just feel tired of everything? I feel like an old soul who regularly needs "soul food" as medication to carry on and sustain. But those moments when those thoughts of weariness come....never go away permanently. I feel like a soul spark trapped in an endless cycle of duality, like things in the ocean that cannot help the almighty ebb and flow of its tide, which they are helpless to.
Its not all bad because when it is bad at least we know that good will return again and is waiting around the corner- that's the law of duality. Or is it? Can we have one without the other or ascend/ transmute duality somehow? Gosh, I don't know. I'll just have to accept the fact I don't know. The head hurts sometimes trying to make sense of it all. I'll just have to carry on with my life....like a little creature in the ocean being pulled apart by it, back and forth with the joys and pain of life interwoven. Why? Because I am just supposed to do so. Maybe there is a reason for all this. Or maybe there isn't. Maybe ignorance is bliss....and maybe it isn't.
Maybe the only way to fit in to this world is to "detach" and accept that we are all just a blend of "good" and "evil" which are misnomers since free will doesn't exist in the sense people think of it....we are all prone to moments when we feel vulnerable and we feel that we do not not know what the frack is going on...those moments when our source of light/inner strength switches off and we feel we have nothing left to give until we feel ok again. Do those moments of weakness, when we feel that need to be alone to replenish our souls..make us innately "bad" or "selfish"? Or are these ideas that others think up who do not have the ability or time to think about it deeply? Tsarion might not be right about everything but he talks about the healing and inner harmony we can find once we each come to terms with our "shadow". I guess in other words this means learning to understand why it is there in order to learn from it and overcome certain patterns we've been conditioned into which are not helpful, through logic and wisdom. But to simply deny the shadow, because we judge ourselves, hate ourselves, crucify ourselves....will just cause an imbalance....self destruction.

I don't know if there is a "purpose" to all this or not, and I've spent a life-time trying to find out if there is. Sometimes I feel like there is. But there is no certainty. Maybe there is and there isn't. Maybe it is what it is. Maybe that's all. Or maybe there is more. Maybe I'd be happier if I learned to stop thinking. Is there need for me to stop thinking? Or maybe that's just my nature. Ok, I'll try to forget about these thoughts for a bit and do the things we all do as we go about our daily lives. Watching the dramas unfold. Longing for a place to belong, and others who understand. But we're all so separate...we feel things differently and see life through our own eyes. Everything is subject to change, otherwise there would be no creativity. Sometimes, I feel all I really want is to feel how I feel in the arms of my beloved....and have that sense of peace and contentment forever. I want those moments to go on forever. I'm tired of having to play a part upon life's stage. Likewise, I feel for every living creature experiencing pain and suffering right now upon this "stage". I wish I could take them all into my arms- or whatever- to say a magic word which would grant them all the experience of true love....free them from pain....set them all free. However, the paradox is that having such desires doesn't make me fit into this world exactly. I'm out of synch with the laws of this reality- the laws of duality....of separation and detachment. Maybe feeling empathy does not make me more "enlightened" than anyone else. I don't know. Is there "enlightenment"?

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

Posts: 1299
From: the 5th dimension
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 01, 2010 09:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
Willy Wonka:
[Spoken]
Hold your breath
Make a wish
Count to three

[Sung]
Come with me
And you'll be
In a world of
Pure imagination
Take a look
And you'll see
Into your imagination

We'll begin
With a spin
Traveling in
The world of my creation
What we'll see
Will defy
Explanation

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it

There is no
Life I know
To compare with
Pure imagination
Living there
You'll be free
If you truly wish to be

If you want to view paradise
Simply look around and view it
Anything you want to, do it
Wanta change the world?
There's nothing
To it

There is no
Life I know
To compare with
Pure imagination
Living there
You'll be free
If you truly
Wish to be

pure imagination

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

Posts: 1299
From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 01, 2010 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
"It's all make believe, isn't it?"

~Marilyn Monroe

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mermaid26
Knowflake

Posts: 334
From: just visiting you know
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posted May 02, 2010 09:00 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mermaid26     Edit/Delete Message
My daughter is watching Willy Wonka this morning. I'm a huge proponent of imagination and feel that is bestowed as a "spiritual" gift that is to be shared and taught. Unfortunately, we don't immediately see the fruits of our labors. We must have belief in the process of cyclic transformation of the collective whole. There is no separateness. Perhaps just the illusion of such. We are driven to seek that which we already contain within, our heart of gold.
It's difficult to see through all the dirt.

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Valus
Knowflake

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posted May 02, 2010 09:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

You are not tired.
You are not one thing.

You are not one person.
You are every person.

You are a poet.

Learn to love the questions,
as much as, if not more than,
the answers, or the beliefs.

"Realists do not fear
the results of their study."
~ Fyodor Dostoevsky

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

Posts: 1299
From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 02, 2010 01:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message

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mermaid26
Knowflake

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From: just visiting you know
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posted May 02, 2010 08:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mermaid26     Edit/Delete Message
"The Dark Side of the Light Chasers" by Debbie Ford is a good read for shadow work.

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

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From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 04, 2010 10:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
I think you are right in that the problem might not be that I'm tired. I think the problem is I think too much sometimes. Problems arise whenever I give into fearful thoughts. My greatest fear is not knowing what is real/ true. I get depressed when I feel afraid that the truth might be impossible to find. I have had lots of experiences where I have felt quite peaceful and have tuned into higher frequencies. But its not possible to stay tuned into that all the time, at least not without effort.

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

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From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 04, 2010 10:43 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
"We think too much, and feel too little".
http://www.clown-ministry.com/index_1.php/articles/text_of_charlie_chaplins_speech_from_the_great_dictator_aka_look_up_hannah/

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Valus
Knowflake

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posted May 04, 2010 02:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

I think, in your present environment, it's probably good to do a lot of thinking, and good that you think. If you wanted to withdraw into the country, or whatever, away from people and illuminated text... You could relax, try to quiet the mind, etc.,,, Some people are just highly cerebral and will always be thinkers. So, if that's who you are, you would need to learn how to love and accept yourself with your limitations and not require something of yourself that would tear you apart if you tried to manifest it. Also, heart and mind are not mutually exclusive. You dont automatically exercise less heart when you exercise more mind. It's a matter of how they are related. And this is not an abstract "heart" or an abstract "mind" we are talking about here, but your specific heart and mind, and how they relate... or inter-relate. That Helen Keller quote -- where she says she wants the understanding that passeth all peace, not the peace that passeth understanding, -- places the intellect above the heart, to some extent. But I think understanding and peace compliment each other. The mind that stretches, to the heights or to the depths, stretches the heart, and vice versa; the heart cannot reach beyond its present limits without a corresponding willingness and capacity in the mind.

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

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From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 04, 2010 05:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message

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SunChild
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From: Melbourne. Victoria. Australia
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posted May 05, 2010 05:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SunChild     Edit/Delete Message

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charmainec
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From: on the other side of the rainbow
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posted May 07, 2010 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for charmainec     Edit/Delete Message

------------------

quote:
"What lies behind us and what lies before us are tiny matters compared to what lies with in us."
-- Ralph Waldo Emerson

:sagittarius:

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

Posts: 1299
From: the 5th dimension
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posted May 13, 2010 11:39 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
Red Ice Radio - Michael Tsarion - Pt 5 - Disciples of the Mysterium
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCF2Ns5Kwps

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Valus
Knowflake

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posted May 13, 2010 08:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valus     Edit/Delete Message

Does observation really change what you are looking at, as Tsarion and some physicists like to say, or, does it change what you are looking for. The eye picks up certain things (and not others) and then naturally the brain tries to find patterns by referring to what the eye picked up. Observation, then, would not change what is, but only what is seen.

It's interesting that Tsarion uses the word "tautology" in the sense which means unnecessary repetition, when the interviewer remarks that similar discoveries, concering irreconcilable dualities, are made in parallel fields of research. There is another definition, meaning something which can be verified as true from multiple angles. It sounds like Tsarion is telling us to ignore this duality, since it is irreconcilable, or to accept it in such a way that it will simply vanish, without being solved. But isn't that irreconcilability -- along with the doomed, yet faithful, effort to reconcile -- precisely the thing that produces the greatest wonders of human creation? That which confounds and frustrates us is also that which makes us laugh and marvel and cry and sing. Does Tsarion laugh, marvel, cry, and sing? I'd like to see that. I'm sorry, I know you like this guy, and here I am snappping judgements. Actually, he's an interesting character, and I'm not sure what I think of him yet. His words for science, and scientists, were pretty harsh.

So, what about his own dualities?

He says we're not distinct from the content that arises to consciousness. Then he says we must get out of the way in order to see the universe objectively. How do we do that, without distinguishing ourselves as something separate from our admittedly flawed perceptions as they arise? We have to take a detached look at our own contents, but how do we do that if the part that is looking is also the part that is seen?

Also, does this philosophy contradict or support the teaching that says, "Man sees the world, not as it is, but as he is,"? He quotes Nietzsche as saying that we must get beyond man to see things as they are. But the real meaning of this, for Nietzsche, is that we never see things as they are. We get beyond man, and we become "overmen". From the perspective of the overman, man is an ape, and from the perspective of man, the overman is a god. But even the overman sees things, not as they are, but as he is. This is what Nietzsche thought, as far as I understand it. But what does Tsarion think? How does he propose we get back to this anamistic connectivity? He says we are still connected -- in what way, then, are we not connected?

Heidegger's formula: "Existence is essence."

It's terse and brilliant, and, like all true mysterium (lol), it leads you back to the surface with a new appreciation for the surface. But what does it ultimately say? The example of the swan is given -- there is no other essence behind the swan, but the swan is a pure expression of essence/existence, or God. So, when we say "existence is essence", are we cleverly extinguishing the mystery surrounding the concept of essence, and effectively discarding the whole idea of essence altogether? Or, are we saying that there is an essence, common to the swan and the meteor and the lightning bolt and the mountain peak, which transcends them all and which can be understood only as the property of existing, or IS-ness? The latter seems to be the case, though I suspect Tsarion would prefer the former.

My question is, can this quality (IS-ness) be increased and decreased? Does something exist more or less than something else? Is something felt to exist more than something else? The swan, for instance, may stand out while the water is relatively unnoticed. Can we be awake to the swan, and not the water? And if we can be less awake to something's existence, then, does our lack of awareness constitute a veil between ourselves and existence/essence? Or, are we equally awake to existence at all times, but we only interpret certain perceptions and experiences as authentic; provided they meet the (now arbitrary) criterea we have for a religious experience?

Tsarion is saying that there is no veil. When you look at the swan, or the mountain, you see your Creator. I suggest that there is a veil. When the veil is in place, you see the mountain, and when the veil is lifted, you see the Creator; but you still see only the mountain. The veil is just that. Imagine a thin veil held between you and a mountain. You can make out the outlines of the mountain, and you say to yourself "I see the mountain,". When the veil is removed, you still see the mountain, but more clearly. So, what I'm saying is that, when you see the mountain clearly, you may say "I see the mountain", but really, in your heart, you know, you are seeing God. A moment earlier, you were not seeing the mountain clearly, and, so, you were not seeing God (clearly).

I wonder if it helps us to see the mountain clearly if we view it as a manifestation of God; something within the context of eternity. Or, as Tsarion seems to suggest, do we inhibit our perception of the mountain when we attempt to see it in the context of infinity? This is where I begin to agree with him, I think. Unconsciously, we know that everything we see is automatically "in the context of infinity", so, it may be counterintuitive to make this explicit. Nevertheless, when the mountain is seen, it seems inevitable that this larger context will occur to us consciously. We'll react to the experience, and we won't say "mountain!", but "God!"; or, if we say "mountain" we will really be thinking "mountian of God" or "mountain in God". Perhaps this is when we cease to see it.

Like that monk who kept a vow of silence for years and then when he was struck by the beauty of a sunset, let out an involunary gasp of astonishment. His teacher scolded him, saying that, when he exclaimed about the beauty of the sunset, he was no longer taking in the view. In this sense, we can see how somebody might be struck with the beauty of things so as to speak incessantly of their relatedness to God, while actually neglecting the very objects of praise. If that is along the lines of what Tsarion is saying, then I think I agree. It's like a man running around looking for God, and then someone says to him, "Stop! Forget about God. Look at the mountain." And when he looks, he sees God. I get it.

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listenstotrees
Knowflake

Posts: 1299
From: the 5th dimension
Registered: Apr 2009

posted May 17, 2010 09:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, I think that is what he is trying to say.

Great questions btw.

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