posted May 12, 2009 04:05 PM         

Do Sagittarians in particular stutter?

I find myself to be surrounded by Sagittarians, and it has occured to me that, if they are under any type of pressure, or involved in a debate, or being questioned, or in any type of long discussion or conversation, they stutter - sometimes only mildly, like we may all do from time to time, but other times it virtually handicaps their speech.

I've thought about this for a while, until tonight I was observing a discussion amongst some 5 people, and the three Sagittarians involved all had terrible trouble getting the words out when it was their turn to speak!

I'm wondering if this is something anyone else has noticed?

posted May 12, 2009 04:20 PM         

Looking at the rising picture, Aquarius would rule the third. Maybe the stutter could be the Uranian bit.

I guess you are looking at an astrological signature for repetition. Your words/letters can be mirrored.

posted May 12, 2009 04:42 PM         

My sister, uncle and a close friend of mine they are all Sags and they never stutter.

posted May 12, 2009 04:57 PM         

2 of my cousins are Sagittarian Suns,and they have no speech problems.

stuttering could be very complexed

I would look at the aspects involving Mercury. After all, it is a planet of communications and is the ruler of Gemini and natural ruler of 3rd house.

I'd look at midpoints too.

speech problems aren't always reflected by hard aspects involving the 3rd house nor by hard aspects involving Mercury

I have a history of speech problems including cluttering connected to my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia. I stutter a little when I am nervous. I had intensive speech therapy in special education. Stuttering can be an early warning sign of Dyslexia, but stuttering can exist without having having Dyslexia nor any other learning differences.

I have no hard ptolemaic aspects involving my Mercury

I do have Moon in Pisces in 6th square the opposition of retrograde Saturn in Gemini oppose Neptune in Sagittarius.

in declinations, Saturn contraparallel Mercury-Venus-Neptune

I have quite a few midpoints that can indicate speech problems:

Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint
Mars oppose Mercury/Saturn midpoint
Mars square Mercury/Neptune midpoint
Neptune sesquiquadrate Mercury/Ascendant midpoint

I also wonder about my Moon in Pisces in 6th house squine (105 degree 24th harmonic aspect) Mercury in Scorpio in 3rd with 10 minutes of arc.

I read that it can acts like a fluctuating square, trine

also my Mercury is conjunct the heliocentric south nodes of Mercury and Mars in Scorpio

my maternal uncle Eddie used to stutter badly. He has no hard ptolemaic aspects involving 3rd house nor Mercury. He has Sun conjunct Mercury in Virgo trine Saturn. He was in special education for a brief time.
He has Neptune in 3rd like me, but it's not involved in any hard aspects. Astrologers would point out that he has Moon square Neptune with 8 degree orb, but that's really a triundecile. I don't believe in using wide orbed aspects because they different harmonics.

I think that his Moon quincunx Mercury with 10 minutes of arc could be an indicator of his speech problems....especially when you consider that quincunx is known as the health aspect and his Moon is in 6th house, the house associated with health

midpoint pictures
Mercury conjunct Saturn/MC midpoint - '12
Eris oppose Mercury/Neptune midpoint - '35

the heliocentric Mercury Nodes and Mars Nodes conjunct Midheaven/Imum Coeli axis

my mother told me that my biological father cluttered and stuttered

he has Sun conjunct Mercury in Capricorn trine stationary Jupiter-Saturn in Taurus.

there are no hard aspects involving his Mercury. his birthtime wasn't on his birth certificate,and so birthtime is unknown.
therefore, I don't know house placements.
it's hard to see any midpoints involving Mercury

His Mercury is sesquiquadrate Uranus.

Raymond

posted May 12, 2009 08:59 PM         

Stuttering affects the fluency of speech. It begins during childhood and, in some cases, lasts throughout life. The disorder is characterized by disruptions in the production of speech sounds, also called "disfluencies." Most people produce brief disfluencies from time to time. For instance, some words are repeated and others are preceded by "um" or "uh." Disfluencies are not necessarily a problem; however, they can impede communication when a person produces too many of them.

In most cases, stuttering has an impact on at least some daily activities. The specific activities that a person finds challenging to perform vary across individuals. For some people, communication difficulties only happen during specific activities, for example, talking on the telephone or talking before large groups. For most others, however, communication difficulties occur across a number of activities at home, school, or work. Some people may limit their participation in certain activities. Such "participation restrictions" often occur because the person is concerned about how others might react to disfluent speech. Other people may try to hide their disfluent speech from others by rearranging the words in their sentence (circumlocution), pretending to forget what they wanted to say, or declining to speak. Other people may find that they are excluded from participating in certain activities because of stuttering. Clearly, the impact of stuttering on daily life can be affected by how the person and others react to the disorder.

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What are signs and symptoms of stuttering?

Stuttered speech often includes repetitions of words or parts of words, as well as prolongations of speech sounds. These disfluencies occur more often in persons who stutter than they do in the general population. Some people who stutter appear very tense or "out of breath" when talking. Speech may become completely stopped or blocked. Blocked is when the mouth is positioned to say a sound, sometimes for several seconds, with little or no sound forthcoming. After some effort, the person may complete the word. Interjections such as "um" or "like" can occur, as well, particularly when they contain repeated ("u- um- um") or prolonged ("uuuum") speech sounds or when they are used intentionally to delay the initiation of a word the speaker expects to "get stuck on."

Some examples of stuttering include:

posted May 12, 2009 09:07 PM         

I've always attributed these quirks to having Mercury cnj Uranus (and Uranus is square Moon). During the phrase stuttering, what's usually happening is I'm seeing the different levels of what I mean. As I'm digging through to the level that feels the most true, my mouth is on autopilot saying "I mean." It would make more sense to keep my mouth shut during that process.

The jumping ahead thing is some glitch in my matrix that I don't even realize happened until someone I'm talking to points it out or I read back my written words. Like the other example, this seems like Uranus overstimulation to me.

Both of these happen only rarely. Even when excited I usually talk at a moderate pace (Mercury sextile Saturn).

posted May 12, 2009 09:13 PM         

Cluttering is a communication disorder that affects one’s ability to convey messages to others in a clear and/or concise manner. Individuals with cluttered speech often report that their listeners have difficulty understanding them, and attribute this to factors such as their rate of speech, the clarity of their speech, and/or the organization or relevance of their message. Some who clutter have said they’ve often received such feedback as, “Slow down!”, “Don’t mumble” or “Where did that comment come from?”.

An interesting thing about cluttering is that unlike stuttering, many who clutter are unaware of their difficulties with communication. This is one reason many are not diagnosed with the disorder until adulthood. Another reason for the delay in diagnosis relates to the fact that cluttering is misunderstood among the public and professionals alike, and therefore those who clutter may be misdiagnosed as stutterers or “anxious speakers.” Adults who clutter have reported that in growing up, others have commented to them about “improving their communication,” but such comments tended to be vague, so the individual could never put his/her finger on what was causing this type of response. Cluttering can often co-exist with stuttering.

It is important to understand that the definition of cluttering is a work in progress, and will likely be refined as we gain more information about this communication disorder. In the meantime, researchers gain a good deal of their information about cluttering from adults who are experiencing it. Some of the symptoms commonly observed by researchers and/or reported by adults who clutter are:

* Racing thoughts
* Rapid and/or irregular rate of speech
* Leaving off the ends of words
* Omitting or distoring sounds or syllables (e.g., “elephant” becomes “elphant”; “orange” becomes “orng”)
* Words sound as if they are “running into each other”
* Lots of starts and stops in speaking
* Excessive use of disfluencies such as “um”, “uh”, repeating or revising phrases, or repeating words; unlike stuttering, these disfluencies are not accompanied by struggle behaviors or muscular tension
* Difficulty organizing thoughts and/or getting to the point
* Limited awareness of how one’s speech sounds to others
* Difficulties slowing down even when asked to do so
* Tendency to interrupt conversational partner
* Words or ideas come out differently than intended

There are other difficulties which have been identified by those who clutter. Research is currently in progress to determine whether these symptoms are a part of the disorder of cluttering, or simply other disorders that tend to co-occur with cluttering in some individuals. This is difficult to separate because everyone’s experience of cluttering is not the same. Some of these symptoms are:

* Difficulties with handwriting, i.e. legibility decreases with time
* Difficulties sustaining attention for such activities as reading and/or small talk
* Always “on the go”
* Difficulties with typing words accurately, such as having to do excessive editing of email messages
*

Speech is often at its best in a structured situation in which the person is actively monitoring it, such as when being videotaped. Speech is often at its worst when the person is more relaxed.

If you have some of the symptoms listed in this document, you may be experiencing cluttering. However, a definitive diagnosis of cluttering can only be made by a speech-language pathologist who has experience and expertise with this communication disorder. Cluttering may also co-occur with stuttering. Because cluttering and stuttering are closely related fluency disorders, a speech-language pathologist with expertise in the area of fluency disorders is often the ideal professional to diagnosis and/or treat a cluttering disorder. See our “Resources” section for further information on locating a specialist in your area.
http://associations.missouristate.edu/ICA/

After reading this, I think that I just clutter. I don't stutter. I have a feeling that my father didn't stutter,and that he did the same thing. He also had Dyslexic,Dyspraxic traits.

please keep in mind that rapid speech is a symptom of mania in bipolar. Disorganized speech is a symptom of disorganized type of schizophrenia.

Therefore, cluttering speech can be diagnosed as a psychotic disorder if psychiatrists are ignorant about cluttering.

I know from experience, I was misdiagnosed as having schizoaffective bipolar disorder because of my speech.

I have Neptune in 3rd involved in t-square, Mercury parallel Neptune,Mercury conjunct Sun/Neptune midpoint,Mars square Mercury/Neptune midpoint,and Neptune sesquiquadrate Mercury/Ascendant midpoint that are in synchronicity with communications that is hard to pin down leading to misunderstandings by others and misdiagnoses

Neptune rules misdiagnoses in Medical Astrology

too many astrologers focus on hard Neptune aspects as psychological problems, but hard Neptune aspects can also be medical misdiagnoses and hypersensitivity to medications.

I just want to raise some awareness about the speech stuff. That's what I do as a neurodiversity advocate and when I start/run a nonprofit neurodiversity organization in the future.

Raymond

posted May 13, 2009 10:40 AM         

I,being a sagittarian, am also a stutterer. My mother is also a huge stutterer and most of my friends are too who are sagittarians...

This could be because of two reasons(mercury aside as I don't think it plays a role)

- The sun is "fire" and when in Sagittaius it is in a Very passionate position.

-The sun is also ruled by Jupiter ,the planet of expansion and being able to grasp the overall concept of things.

-The sign is allso "mutable" which suggests the inability to do something for a long time without losing concentration or being side-tracked.

Now try to mix these things together and still mantain a graceful stance....not easy.

-First when I am angry or passionate about something, the Sun is activated and I want everyones attention to be focused on me.

-Then I have to find the words that are adequate enough to explain how I feel without being too detailed or specific.

-After finding the words, I have to find the most appropriate way to say them without spending too much time announciating them before I lose my chain of thought.

That is why a lot of Sagittarians tend to interrupt others while they speak,it is not because they are being rude but they are convinced that they will lose the "passion' of what they want to say if they wait a second longer.

Some find it hard to recall what it was that they were trying to say in the first place, while others "lose" the punchline while telling a joke.

Some find it difficlt to find an appropriate word to describe what it is that they are trying to say (Gemini is the master at saying the right word atb the right time) and get stuck on uhmmmm or ehhhs a lot.

Sagittarius tries to cover as much ground as possible in a small amount of time.

This can produce very clumsy results...like mine right now...forgive the Centaur as few have mastered this unfortunate virtue.

posted May 13, 2009 10:49 AM         

quote:

---

That is why a lot of Sagittarians tend to interrupt others while they speak,it is not because they are being rude but they are convinced that they will lose the "passion' of what they want to say if they wait a second longer.

---

You said it soooo well AscTaurus!

Yes, I do interrupt with the only intention to add to the discussion and usually at a time when I feel I can't hold it in any longer. This however is a very disruptive habit and I've gotten a lot of raised eyebrows and annoyed looks from people.

posted May 13, 2009 11:06 AM         

that seems like word retrieval,Dysnomia which can be part of Dyslexia, but can also exist without Dyslexia

I know about that stuff personally. I can have difficulty finding right word to say at times. I have said "ummmm...and other verbal breaks a lot. I have problems with immediate,short term memory that affects both language and coordination. Nonlinear,Visual,picture thinking is my primary mode of thought. Sequential,Verbal,word thinking is my secondary mode of thought. As a little child,I couldn't do the latter. I had to be taught to. Most children learn language from being exposed to language. That didn't work for me.

I am getting the impression that some people are getting cluttering,dysnomia mixed up with stuttering.

Dr. Harold N. Levinson who I saw back in 2005 and was diagnosed as having cerebellar vestibular dysfunction which he said is root of neurodivergent conditions, writes a good explanation about speech problems.

He really understands the mind of neurodivergents so much that I feel that he was writing all about me, and that's why I flew to New York from California to see him. It was reading his books that helped me understand that my speech problems were mistakened for psychotic speech by psychiatrists,and got me to realized that I was misdiagnosed and taking medication that I shouldn't be taking. It actually really ****** me off,but it made me feel relieved too. This was back in 2003. I owe a lot of my understanding of my neurodivergence to him. It was his test results that got Veteran Affairs to test me and confirm my Dyslexia and Dyspraxia.

I swear if I knew about this stuff a long time ago like in my teenage years and wasn't so rightbrained, I'd pursue a career in neuropsychiatry.

page 47 to 49 from A SOLUTION TO THE RIDDLE OF DYSLEXIA(The DISCOVERY OF
CEREBELLAR-VESTIBULAR SYNDROMES by Harold N. Levinson, MD

Occasionally, dyslexics manifested a "loose" and telescopic quality to
their associative speech or thinking styles, and as a result tended to
be rapid,wordy, and rambling in their spontaneous descriptions. This
interesting speech pattern appeared independent of anxiety factors,
and tended to resemble a schizophrenic's "loose associations" and
tangential thinking. However, these dyslexic children were not
psychotic, and lacked autistic preoccupation and projective thinking
mechanisms. They merely seemed to forget momentarily the direction of
their thought sequences and/or the thoughts and words themselves.
Occasionally, the temporal spacing between words and sentences was
shorter than normal and even dysmetric.

Later studes noted nonpsychotic "absentminded" adult dyslexics to
manifest similar loose,wordy, and rambling speech patterns ----
clearly demonstrating the need to qualitatively and diagnostically
distinguish dyslexic speech patterns from schizophrenic patterns
(Kasaninin, 1964). Upon analysis, this loose, absent-minded dyslexic
thinking style prone to slips was found to be due to the very same
underlying memory, directional, and temporal spatial dyscoordination
mechanisms characterizing dyslexic reading, writing, and spelling.

Not infrequently these so-called absent-minded individuals intend to
do say or do one thing and wind up saying or doing another, even the
opposte of what was originally intended. Forgetting is commonplace. As
a result, the dyslexic's speech and action patterns may often exhibit
a disoriented and disjointed, even comical, quality, which many
clinicians fallaciously consider due to primary psychogenic
determinants. However, upon analysis, the dyscoordination or slip
between intention and speech or motor response was most often found
lacking a primary emotional causation, and appeared qualitatively
consistent with the dyslexic symptomatology. In retrospect, these
slips invariably provoked secondary emotional attempts at
compensation; and the unsuspecting psychiatrist and psychologist will
unwittingly mistake secondary defensive reaction with primary
causation. For example, some dyslexics become embarassed, blush, and
retreat socially as a result of their slips, while others attempt to
joke and rationalize them away.

Paradoxically, some dyslexics were found to demonstrate highly
organized, crystal-clear thinking and expressive styles. Upon
analysis, many of these individuals were found to have had subtle and
compensated speech impediments during their early childhood. In
retrospect, their highly condensed speech patterns appeared to be
defensive or adaptive attempts at minimizing speech output and
thinking errors. Although these dyslexics were often incapable of
spontaneous free-associative and reflective speech, they were more
than capable of performing these same very same functions in silence.
For example, when asked to freely think aloud about a question, they
could not or would not. But they could, and would,invariably produce
the answer after a silent pause----clearly demonstrating their highly
developed, silent associative and reflective thinking capacities.
Following recognition and resolution of their guarded or defensive
speech mechanisms, many learned to think aloud and to express
themselves without embarassed or fear of criticism. Later adult
stories not only confirmed these observations but revealed the
existence of dyslexics who were capable of free association and
reflection only when writing. Their fluent and lucid writing styles
appeared to be motivated similarly by dyslexic verbalization
difficulties which were compensated for by gifted and/or unhampered
writing functions.

Because the ability to free-associate is a cardinal and essential
prerequisite for candidates being evaluated for psychoanalytic
therapy, and since this ability may be nonverbally present, it
behooves psychiatrists and psychoanalysts to explore seriously these
clinical considerations in their diagnostic-treatment assessment of
psychoanalytic patients.

The first part are my problems. That's why I was misdiagnosed as
having schizoaffective bipolar by psychiatrists years ago in
adulthood,and they never did any medical testing. They only went by
what they observed.

Luckily, Dr Levinson understood that my speech and thoughts weren't
psychotic but Dyslexic. I saw Dr Levinson in June of 2005. He is
the psychiatrist/neurologist who diagnosed m e as having cerebellar
vestibular dysfuncion and recognized my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,sensory
integration diffiiculties. He didn't diagnose me with any mental
illness. He thought my problems were neurological.

The second part is me too....mainly compensatory thinking,speech
mechanisms.

This is Dr. Levinson's site
http://levinsonmedical.com/index.html

I don't agree with his theory about the cerebellar vestibular dysfunction being the cause of neurodivergent symptoms.

Ronald D. Davis talks about how disorientation/confusion can lead to distorted perceptual experiences that neurodivergents have. He believes that the highly visual,picture thinking of neurodivergencts makes them use their disorientation to automatically distort their peceptions but also can be used to see things from other perspectives. He believes those things are strongly connected to each other. They are highly imaginative. They could actually have an overactive imagination that leads to the perceptual distortions.

I believe that cerebellar-vestibular dysfunction can be in synchronicity with neurodivergent conditions and not just cause and effect. It could be one of those " what came first....the chicken or the egg" I believe that it's possible that the neurodivergent person can be ultrasensitive to sensory input to the point that the cerebellar vestibular system is overwhelmed which results in disorientation/confusion. Therefore, cerebellar vestibular problems could actually be the symptoms of hypersensitivity. I am just coming at it from a neurodivergent perspective.

Things like Omega 3 fatty acids not only found to decrease the symptoms of neurodivergents, but also decrease hypersensitivity too. Neurodivergents tend to be hypersensitive any way. Certain vitamins and minerals help with cerebellar vestibular functioning too,and they also can decrease hypersensitivity...especially Vitamin B complex which is known as the stress vitamin. Motion sickness medications are used to treat cerebellar vestibular dysfunction. They could actually decrease hypersensitivity. Motion sickness could stem from hypersensitivity to movements.

In psychology text books, I have read that schizophrenics can be hypersensitive and so they can retreat inside themselves for protection. However, this also be said for people with autism.

Studies show that Omega 3 fatty acids can help with schizophrenia,bipolar too. Hypersensitivity is very common in people with those psychiatric disorders. Also Vitamin B6 and zinc deficiencies can lead to schizophrenia and bipolar issues. Pyroluria is a condition that pulls Vitamin B6 and zinc out of the system which can lead to schizophrenic,bipolar symptoms

posted May 13, 2009 12:29 PM         

maybe it's possible that centaurs in aspect to Mercury could be an indicator for problems with speech

after all centaurs are not planets. They don't orbit like planets. They have highly elliptical orbits,and they are now said to actually come from the kuiper belt which Pluto is a part of. The kuiper belt objects and the centaurs have highly elliptical orbits in common. They are nothing like our solar system planets.

Being nonconformists astronomically, it would make sense for them to be nonconformists astrologically.
Chiron already has a reputation for being a maverick That whole centaur belt and kuiper belt can be about being a maverick

the aspects that my Mercury makes to these nonconforming objects

I would look at only hard aspects (conjunction,opposition,square) and also the semisquare,sesquiquadrate,quincunx

transneptunian dwarf planets including Pluto,Eris,Makemake,Haumea, dwarf planet candidates (large kuiper belt objects) - no more than 3 degree orb for major aspects, no more than 1 degree orb for minor aspects

small kuiper belt objects - no more than 1 degree orb for major aspects, less than half a degree for minor aspects

centaurs,and that includes Chiron - no more than 3 degree orb for major aspects, no more than 1 degree orb for minor aspects

Mercury square dwarf planet, Makemake - 2'01

Orbital Period 309.00 yr., 2nd brightest KBO (Pluto #1), 1,250 km diameter? From Rapa Nui. Pronounced maki-maki.

Positive: Articulate and ultra-communicative. Self-assuredness, especially by verbal means. Clever, quick-witted and interested in invoking insight and inspiration with speech. Quick to report findings, regardless of impact. Courageous, possessing the willfulness to confront the peril required for discovery or spiritual evolution. Conscious of family security and safety. Protection of the brood.

Negative: Cunning and verbally manipulative. Double talk. Diversion of facts. Declaring false findings (laying an egg, so to speak). Taking flight to avoid consequence. Hiding as a coping skill. Reckless. Disregard for safety of the home. Self-serving.

Mercury oppose small kuiper belt scattered disk object, Ceto - '37
Mercury square small kuiper belt,plutino Rhadamanthus - '48
Rhadamanthus oppose Ceto - 1'25
(T-Square)

Rhadamanthus - A member of a tribunal of judges that judged the merits of mortals and souls. Orbital Period: 244.79 yr.

Positive - sanctions second chances, latitude giving, open minded, fair, non-judgmental, seeing the larger picture

Negative - critical, judgmental and damning, feels persecuted and persecutes

Ceto - aquatic monster symbolizing the fears of the unconscious mind/psyche and the collective unconscious. Orbital Period: 1,039.65 yr.

Positive: potent imagination, adventure oriented, confident, healthy choices of life style.

Negative: fearful, sociopathic (telling tales about horrible woes for pity), insecure, weak willed

11th harmonic seems like it can be troubling,unsettling

David Cochrane, the founder of Cosmic Patterns,creator of Kepler Astrology program, is a big on harmonics

he said

"Few astrologers use this aspect so there is little information on its meaning. I have been using minor aspects for over 30 years, and I believe that any aspect that has 11 in the denominator is very unstable, erratic, impatient, and rebellious." http://www.astrosoftware.com/MinorAspect.htm

Mercury undecile Uranus - '19
Mercury quinqueundecile Saturn - '25
Saturn quadraundecile Uranus - '44
Mercury quinqueundecile - '07
Saturn undecile Sedna - '17
Uranus quinqueundecile Sedna - '26
(11th Harmonic Isosceles trapezoid)
corresponding midpoint pictures of:
Mercury oppose Saturn/Sedna - '16
Sedna oppose Mercury/Uranus - '17
Mercury/Sedna oppose Saturn/Uranus - '01

if adding the Ascendant,(Winona Ryder was born the same day as me,and she doesn't have problems with speech), then the 11th harmonic is more personal

Mercury biundecile Ascendant - '33
Saturn triundecile Ascendant - '08
Uranus undecile Ascendant - '52
Sedna quadraundecile Ascendant - '25
corresponding midpoint picture of:
Uranus conjunct the Mercury/Ascendant - '36

Mercury square centaur,Asbolus - 1'34 in Right Ascension (Equaotorial Longitude Coordinates)
it is said to link the orbits of Neptune and Pluto

Asbolus: An intuitive Auger. Orbital Period: 75.78 yr.

Positive - intrepid, courageous, leading the charge, motivated to reach the top, intuitive, wise, common sense insightful, solid advice

Negative - lack of sensibility, blind action, failing to follow instincts, intuitions, omens or sensors, easily intoxicated, unable to receive advice from self or others

Philip Sedgwick's site...list kuiper belt objects,centaurs with keywords http://www.philipsedgwick.com/

Raymond

posted May 15, 2009 04:18 PM         

quote:

---

Looking at the rising picture, Aquarius would rule the third. Maybe the stutter could be the Uranian bit.

---

Damn right it is! Sag rising, merc, uranus (all conjunct) AND Aquarius 3rd house here! I certainly stutter when... well, almost anytime.

I never really noticed about Sagittarius suns, but seeing as it is about stuttering and stuttering is a speech impairment, I would be more likely to look at Sagittarius mercury. Then again, usually a Sagittarius sun will also have a Sagittarius mercury - it is just more likely to happen unless you're born on the cusp. And I think that since Sagittarius is already known to want to do everything at once, they will slip up at some point and I think that that moment is when they start to stutter.

posted May 16, 2009 04:21 PM         

I knew Sagittarians, and 2 of them are in my family.

Not a single one of them stutters nor have any other speech problems.

The only people in my family that have speech problems is one of my maternal uncles who has a Virgo Sun,Mercury and myself with a Scorpio Sun,Mercury,Venus

my father had Capricorn Sun,Mercury

I'd be looking at aspects to Mercury or maybe even Uranus.

I am not sure about the 3rd house because house systems are relative.

Robert Hand even uses whole sign house system.

Cosmobiologists don't even use any house system.

house systems are being used with outer planets, but cosmobiologists argue that house system is outdated when you use outer planets. It's like astrologers just said if the old planets work in the house, then so do the outerplanets. the outerplanets haven't been observed in all the signs after their discoveries. Pluto certainly hasn't,but it's not even planet.....especially with it orbiting well off the ecliptic.

posted May 17, 2009 12:00 AM         

Mercury orbits close to the Sun

therefore, there can only be conjunctions and semisextiles between the Sun and Mercury

so Mercury is often in the same sign as the Sun or in the neighboring sign