posted July 08, 2009 04:48 PM         

New here--didn't want to clutter up this board with my charts and begging, but if any of you synastry experts would be so kind as to trek over to the Personal Readings board and take a peek at the two charts I posted over there I would be so grateful.

Please put me out of my misery. I'm dying over here. If any of you have Venus in Scorpio surely you can sympathize. I promise to come back and contribute something a little more thoughtful and less self-obsessed to our overall astrology discussions in a few hours once I'm done brooding.

posted July 09, 2009 12:08 PM         

But with the square, as always, this adds tension. Both sexual and emotional. I'm sure that there are arguments and jealousies hovering over your relationship.

Also noticed Juno EXACTLY conjunct Neptune. This could insinute the feeling of "he's/she's my ideal partner". But be careful here, Neptune can make you irrational and may deceive you. You may THINK this person is "perfect"- perfect in general and perfect for you- but after a while they may fail and lose some of your affection.

posted July 09, 2009 12:36 PM         

And yes, there is definitely an element of jealousy present. He is in a long-distance relationship with someone else at the moment so there is also that element of deception and fantasizing that I am worried about where I feel like I am idealizing him and not seeing the big picture and too caught up in the chemistry. He is torn about what to do with that situation but realizing that I still have to continue to date and meet people (more jealousy...)

posted July 09, 2009 03:21 PM         

I understand how you feel. I've been where you are right now myself. It's tormenting.

First i would say that, though you don't want to hear this, he needs to end his long distance relationship. If he loves you, it should be no contest. He shouldn't have to pine over the situation- it should be you, hands down.

Second, i'd like you to post both of your natals. Also, if you could post your synastry using some asteroids- Eros, Psyche, Osiris, Isis, Aphrodite, Adonis, Persephone, Lust, and whatever else might stirke your fancy.

posted July 09, 2009 03:39 PM         

His Sun and Moon are in your first house, my Cap friend has his Sun and Venus(personal planets) in my first house and we too have the double Venus/Mars whammy..it's going to be hard for you to get rid of him and off your mind. Also when you think this guy is gone, he'll be back..something always brings them back or maybe it's you that tries to leave but the attraction keeps pulling you in.

I learned this the hard way over three years..until finally I've decided that were just going to be friends because I am tired of the complicated feelings.

Remember this, personal space is good and like Meta_4 said if he does love you then he would end his long distance relationship.

posted July 09, 2009 05:13 PM         

Personal space? Sigh. He lives across the hall! That definitely contributes to the angst. Try getting someone off your mind that you have to see every day. You notice whether their car is there or not (if not and it’s late, where could they be?), what it means if he comes outside to look at me as I pull up, and it’s so easy to make excuses to see them (can I bum a cigarette, can you come help me bring these bags in?) etc. etc. etc. Sigh. Pure torture.

He's going to visit her this weekend actually. It was a planned trip for quite some time, but still, I can’t help but feel rather vexed about that so there have definitely been some power plays back and forth on my part with me being distant, etc. but I think this trip might be a good thing. It will be his first trip to see her since our "thing" started and I'm hoping it will help him to clarify his feelings. I've made it very clear to him that I don't do triangles. And you're very right about it being hard to stay away from him. I really tried to leave him alone once I found out about the trip; my pride was really wounded but even with me trying to be distant, we ended up sharing some passionate moments last night after 2 days of chilliness on my part. He can’t stay away either. Our kisses are so amazing, it’s like breathing each other’s air…ugh. Anyway…

Meta — here are the charts you asked for. Thank you so much for your help, I would have never thought to add all those asteroids. I did all the asteroids you requested, and added Valentine.

Synastry with Asteriods:

My Natal Chart:

His Natal Chart:

Meta, since you are so interested in love stories, here's ours:

posted July 09, 2009 08:58 PM         

I would definately ask him about the long distant relationship and where it's headed because it seems like you guys are ready to blast off together and love triangles are heart wrenching. When my Cap friend and I decided to end our 3 year friend due to complicated feelings and the fact he was seeing someone and I am trying to find myself and prepare for college.

I was so torn up at first because I was loosing such a close friend but now I see it was for the best. Even though he broke up with his girlfriend and were both single now, but right now I just feel comfortable being friends with him..I can't go back to the craziness we have with eachother. (My Sun/Venus in his first house and his Sun/Venus in my first house, a Mars/Venus double Whammy and Moon/Pluto double whammy)

Just be careful, just really think this through because this is a very strong and powerful attraction that can either be a really pleasurable thing or painful.

Meta_4 I'll post our synastry on Monday.

posted July 09, 2009 09:31 PM         

If he's in another relationship, and it is not a consensually open relationship, then he's lying and cheating!! Stop seeing him romantically until he has clearly ended his other relationship(s), again unless it is consensually open.

It's not just about the two of you--unless he and this other person had an agreement not to be exclusive, and/or he told her, "I've been having feelings for the neighbor woman and I want to start spending my nights kissing and holding hands with her--is that cool, or does that end things with us?" then he has been lying to her and cheating on her, which is crappy, and is a red flag that he will be like that in the future. With you.

posted July 09, 2009 11:17 PM         

Ouch....double Mars in 12th....in my experience, planets in the partners 12th tend to cause some degree of unexplained (karmic, if you will) tension and attraction, but there's usually massive insecurity on both sides...
Also your Mars' are directly opposed. I've had this in a long-term 2 year relationship (Mars 7deg Aries vs Mars 8deg Libra) which was highly charged and ended in violence.

What I'd be most concerned with is that Leo Mars making not only the said opposition, but a trine to both his Neptune AND Venus...here, there is much confusion...try to figure out whether the love is illusory or not; either way, the Neptunian energy is highly highly deceptive here, and I'd be very careful.

There's evidently sexual attraction here. The Jup/Mars square to your Venus is also a little bit of a dual-edged sword....high levels of attraction but huge potential for conflict...Scorpio venus is also highly uncompromising, I would know, especially disdainful of Leo and Aqua.

Your Saturn placement also opposes some core aspects of his identity there....he may feel as though you're too smothering, or authoritarian. There is little that can be done about this unless you exploit the Mercury/Saturn trine to explain yourself..and take advantage of that double Saturn/Jupiter trine, which in my eye is a sign of opportunity and compromise, if you're both willing...

I'm a tiny bit concerned about his Uranus placement, which is in your 8th and conjunct Mercury...he may radically and suddenly alter your perception of the universe in some way.

On the plus side that Aries cluster of his is sitting in your first house...which includes his Ascendant ruler, the Sun. Your Moons are also reasonably well-matched and make a harmonious aspect.

This relationship is surely one heck of a ride. Watch out for ego conflicts and deception, mostly, as well as control, vulnerability and power struggles. Play it to your strengths; you can tune into eachother's emotions, and feed off eachother's energies, and with Saturn/Jupiter aspects being what they are, accomplish many projects together. Your sexual life and intimacy is bound to be out of the ordinary and may invoke some kind of past life contract...be sure it is for the good before diving in!

posted July 10, 2009 12:47 AM         

Cheshire--

I have not come out directly and asked what his thoughts are on the status of the long-distance relationship but I have listened carefully to some things he has said and planted questions about it that I wanted him to answer and I'm not sure I liked what I heard. I don't even know if he realized he was being interrogated about his intentions indirectly, but hey...that's what I do. I'm subtle.

That's why I'm observing this trip and the outcome of it so carefully. Really, I want to see that there was some serious conflict that came out of the trip and that within 3 days of so of him getting back a discussion is had about them ending the relationship. They don't necessarily have to break up while he is away but if it doesn't happen within a few days of him being back then things are going to change. It has to be that way for my own sanity. So I can totally relate to you keeping your emotional distance from that guy because you know that if you give him just an inch, he will take a mile. I have a feeling it would be like this with him.

Lucia--

Deep breath. You are AMAZING. The fact that you were able to see the relationship so clearly on the other thread without the benefit of the knowledge of what was posted here just really hit home with me.

First, your accurate assessment of his involvement in another relationship and the risk of a LOT of deception being involved really affected me. The fact that you called that really made me question if this is all just one big illusion. If so, who is being deceived? Me or him? I did have full knowledge of his involvement with someone else at the onset of my attraction to him. I have to wonder if the drama of that situation isn't what appealed to me a little. I've done some research on my natal Scorpio Venus - Leo Mars square and I've read that it can be a bit...challenging. This also isn't the first "love triangle" type relationship I've been involved in. Actually, I seem to attract these types of relationships. Now that I think about it, so much so that I'm wondering if there's an explanation for that. In the natal chart perhaps? Some kind of "femme fatale" persona I keep subconsciously playing out?

This one bothered me quite a bit: "Something about his mutable squares (Pisces Moon-Merc, Saggie Neptune, Gem Saturn) makes me a bit worried that he is one of those guys who gets confused when it comes to love...he'll go for things headfirst in a big exertion of Aries, then start messing up, lying, cheating, dissolving, putting his fingers in too many pies..."

I have that same concern myself. I am terrified of this. With any man, but especially with him because I feel so strongly about him. I can't deal with that kind of guy. I am too deep and intense to deal with flakey guys. They drive me nuts. Literally.

On a side note: Maybe one reason the alarm bells haven't gone off yet as far as me being able to smell "flakiness" on his part is because he did tell me that he sometimes gets in trouble in relationships for being too intense. I love when guys tell me this. LOL! They always think they are confessing some deep, dark secret but secretly I am pleased. Don't they know who they are dealing with? Please, be intense with me baby! Ha!

Thank you for your insights. I have actually been really struggling with the ethical considerations of this involvement, believe it or not (when I am able to emerge from the haze of all the other mojo going on). It's really not something I'm going to be able to withstand for much longer. The trip this weekend is really going to be make or break. That's a guarantee.

21--

Your first paragraph scared the beejeebus out of me. Karmic tension & attraction...ok fine, that would explain some of the suddenness, but massive insecurity and violence sounds a bit too much for me, especially with the little ones involved. Even if the girlfriend situation works out, sheesh! Should I be running?

More deception, more illusion...I don't think I like Neptune aspects at all. The sexual attraction aspects are definitely all the truth though. It's unbelievable.

When you say my Saturn placement are you talking about my Saturn opposition his Venus? There's so much Saturn there, not sure if it's good or bad, I've heard both.

posted July 10, 2009 01:07 AM         

Re: femme fatale aspects in the chart--well, you DO have a very, very sexy 8th house (Pluto and Venus, yum)...square the Venus to Mars and add that it's Scorp and Leo, and you are probably a little turned on by sexual and emotional power plays, roller coasters, intensity...and add Pisces rising and the idea that everyone is so overtaken by drama and lust that no one can help themselves...(is that Mars-Venus also square your Taurus Moon?)...also, with a 7th and 8th house emphasis in your chart (I've got that in my natal too), relationships, including the associated drama, are probably extra thrilling, consuming, and important for you...BUT you will certainly find a way to find and enjoy that intensity that will satisfy your earthy sense of loyalty and ethics, too.

posted July 10, 2009 08:30 AM         

Yes, Mars is square my Moon natally. And I am definitely addicted to love & relationships. When I'm involved with someone, it's an all-consuming thing. I absolutely crave that intensity in my relationships. Actually, I have messed up 2 really good relationships that could have led to marriage because they weren't "intense" (i.e. dramatic) enough. That is something I really resolved to work on this year, which is why I felt like this sudden attraction to this guy was feeling a little red flag-ish, especially since it felt so powerful. Typical me. I thought the need for intensity was just the influence of the Venus in Scorpio but now I'm seeing how heavily it's influenced by other factors in the chart. Ugh! I am doomed!

posted July 10, 2009 12:26 PM         

And ESPECIALLY about being the kind of person who does not help someone cheat on, lie to, and betray a person he or she has made a committment to.

I'm having a tough time right now with that...in my teens there were a lot of exciting, single guys, and now I am so lonely and celibate and I have a very attractive, exciting guy interested in me (who is my age, early 30s, instead of 25 like the men I've been with since my breakup)...but he has a girlfriend...so the fact that he is going for me makes him a lying cheat...and I am keeping my 100% hands off policy with men who are in other relationships, which includes keeping even a platonic and emotional distance.

I wish more people would try an open relationship rather than lying or cheating. But when their relationship is not open, it's just soooo crappy to get involved.

posted July 10, 2009 02:53 PM         

I was hoping I'd get you. Here's the composite:

posted July 10, 2009 03:34 PM         

Sorry that i haven't been able to answer. Busy, busy!

I'm at work now, but i just wanted to drop by and say a few things.

Just one thing that popped out to me about his natal chart is the heavily aspected Saturn. He's bowed down by obligation. This is good and bad at the same time. On one hand, he does make commitments. He is responsible and can withstand A LOT. However, something it might mean is that he's going to stick with the commitment he made to his long-distance girlfriend- EVEN THOUGH he may want to be with you. It's kind of like a "put your money where your mouth is" deal. He feels responsibility toward her and that relationship. He made his bed, and now he has to lie in it. At least that's ONE interpretation. I'm not saying he won't choose you. I'm just pointing out a possibility.

Also, i noticed that you have a Sun/Neptune aspect. This could make you an easily mislead and naive individual. Watch out. Make sure you're not having your chain-yanked. You have to be COMPLETELY sure that he's not just interested in you for the short-term. Having Venus in Scorpio, Mars square Venus, and Moon square Mars makes you a very "All Or Nothing" lover. And that's how it needs to be. Don't settle for less. If you do, you'll never be satisfied and you'll end up resenting him, the relationship and yourself.

posted July 10, 2009 04:59 PM         

Thanks for the insight about commitment. I will say that if he does end his relationship, I would rather it be out of thoughtful action and a recognition that it wasn't working for him before I came along than a hurried thing just because he got the hots for someone else. That would go a long way towards reassuring me that he's not the type of guy who once a cheat, always a cheat.

posted July 10, 2009 07:03 PM         

Just tread softly.

todd,

posted July 10, 2009 10:35 PM         

Even without considering at the synastry or composite, his chart says a lot. It certainly looks like you both approach love in different ways. His descendant is in freedom-loving Aquarius, ruled by Uranus in the third house -- so Uranus governs all things "partnership" for him. His idea of a good relationship is one that's unconventional, perhaps erratic, where he has plenty of space and distance from his partner... so this long-distance relationship he's in might be just perfect for him: he gets to have a girlfriend but he doesn't have to get "too close" for very long. So despite the hurdles of a long-distance relationship, I wonder if he would really want to cut ties with his current girlfriend, because that setup caters so well to what a Uranus-ruled descendant would want. (Interestingly, his Uranus in the 3rd house suggests a strong attraction to intelligence and communication; you put your Mercury and Pluto into his 3rd house conjunct his descendant ruler, so your mental and intellectual rapport might be just brilliant -- which makes him strongly attracted to you).

With Venus in Aries conjunct his chart ruler (the sun), he's all about "conquest": he needs something to conquer, something to win, something to stir up excitement and provide him with a challenge. I'm betting you're the challenge right now. As someone who also has Venus in Aries, I assure you we're a people very capable of loyalty, but the adventurous urge is there and it can be hard to stay focused on a single person -- especially when someone else interesting comes along. In matters of the heart, Venus in Aries tend to jump head-first into things, impulsively, without really thinking them through. He may very well have strong feelings for you, but I guarantee you he's very good at "living in the moment" -- which means he has no trouble being with you NOW without really considering plans for the future. When he sees you, he wants you, and has no inhibitions about pursuing... but in his mind, being with you (short-term exciting conquest) doesn't mean he has to break up with his girlfriend (long-term relationship with space and freedom).

As Lucia mentioned, the T-square of mutable planet is also a bit worrisome. He's highly sensitive with Pisces moon/mercury, but because these planets are at the apex of the T-square, they take the brunt of the battle between his Saturn and Neptune. He undulates between realism/pragmatism (Saturn) and fantasy/dreaming (Neptune). It might be easy for him to compartmentalize things: you are the 'now' when you're with him; his girlfriend is the 'now' when she's with him; and the two of you don't necessarily overlap or conflict in his mind.

Basically, what I see here is someone who probably means well, but doesn't necessarily feel that what he's doing with you (literally, cheating) is wrong. At least not so wrong that he feels compelled to break up with one of you. If nothing changes, I think he might be perfectly fine seeing both you and his girlfriend without feeling like he's doing something unethical.

I really don't think he's a *bad* person, based on what you've written and on seeing his chart (though that's not the kind of thing astrology should declare anyway) -- just that he may be self-deceptive and compelled to follow his impulses without thinking them through first.

At any rate, good luck with all this; I hope you find some relief from the agony, whatever the outcome may be.

posted July 10, 2009 11:56 PM         

To Todd

Physical/Emotional Attraction: Yeah, basically. How interesting that that shows up in synastry and the composite. If ever I was destined to have great sex it's with this one, huh? I have openly worried that the attraction is so intense that it would become primarily sexual and nothing else. He has reassured me that's not the case though and that he couldn't tolerate a relationship that shallow.

Devotion/Affection/Long-Term Potential: This was true and also very reassuring. We are in fact very tender with each other. I think we have both been accused of being too smothering in past relationships and feel very comfortable with affectionate displays around each other. For example, on the occasions that we have slept in the same bed he literally likes to wrap his entire body around mine. Not too sure many people could put up with that, but it doesn't bother me at all. I find it warm & reassuring, etc. We hug, touch, kiss, etc. a lot. We are both very touchy feely people. He is also a much more committed person than I am. He has only had 4 girlfriends in his life, one of whom is his ex-wife and one of whom is his current girlfriend. Me on the other hand...Good stuff.

Quick Get Together: Definitely!

Work-Related: Now THIS had me completely captivated. We did not meet at work; we are neighbors. BUT...the first real conversation we ever had was about work. His actually. He's an accountant. I am not an accountant but my work is heavily connected to accounting and we actually had a very in-depth conversation about accounting! I got the sense that he was very...intrigued? at finding someone he could talk to about his work and they knew what he was talking about. Turned on even. His work is very important to him and he is very ambitious and he is the type of man who likes to be able to come home and talk about those things and I don't think he was getting that before. And there's your finance connection. Wow!

Companionship/Laughter: Absolutely. We have a ton of things in common, and I am a "guy's girl"...I participate in activities with him that I don't think he is used to girls liking, such as online shooter gaming, so we greatly enjoy each other's company, which is why we spend so much time together. We definitely laugh and joke a lot. He has a rather silly side that I enjoy.

Reconciliation/Previous Breakup: This is the only part that seemed inaccurate. I met him in February of this year. We have only known each other as neighbors since then. Unless I somehow met him before and never knew it. We both were born in the same state but didn't go to high school together or anything. He is 9 years older than I am. Unless you are talking about a past life or something! Hmmmm...

That was very insightful and wonderfully in-depth. At this point, after having a few days to reflect on what's happened and discuss the relationship with folks on this site, I am very wary of the pitfalls, so your warnings about the potential for a "fling" and distancing, etc. are duly noted. Thank you again.

To Origami

Mutual Mars in 12th/Lack of Trust: That's scary. All the Pluto energy I've got floating around natally gives me more than enough of a wary and suspicious nature...I don't need anymore trust issues manifesting themselves!

His Flaky Uranus Issues: Also scary. You've seen my chart. You know how I am about relationships. I demand total and absolute loyalty and commitment. Complete focus. I need his full attention or I will get clingy and it will get ugly. That doesn't sound good at all.

Mental Rapport: That, however, sounds promising. No wonder he's lusting after me ever since we had the accounting conversation. LOL!

His Venus in Aries: I've thought about this a lot. He is my first Sun & Venus in Aries. I could DEFINITELY tell when his interest turned from platonic to romantic. It was the most obvious thing I've ever seen in my life. I had no idea Aries was such an ardent sign. Sheesh! Anyway...I realize that you are all about pursuit but I thought that Scorpio & Aries had a special bond, since they were once co-ruled by Mars? Is Aries not in love with love and super romantic? Can I expect no loyalty?

Compartmentalizing: There have been times I have gotten the sense that he is quite good at this, but the one time I called him on it, he was deeply offended and rebutted that if I thought he had no conscience that I didn't know him at all. So I left it alone and assumed that perhaps it was something that was eating at him on a deeper level than was more apparent. I decided to leave him alone with his thoughts on the matter and to let his actions after he returns from the trip speak for him.

So, I do think he realizes it's unethical. As do I. My problem is that I'm having a hard time getting mental clarity over the situation in such close proximity to him. It's so much easier to think clearly about it at times like this, when he's hundreds of miles away. I think he has the same problem. It really does feel like this compelling, obsessive thing (read: addictive), which is why I sought help in the first place, to see WHY this was happening.

Interesting enough, as an update, I don't think the trip started off well. He updated his Facebook this afternoon with a statement along the lines of "Just got slapped with a dose of reality", which would have been very shortly after he got there. Within minutes. That doesn't sound good at all, but I can't make assumptions, and will try to be normal and healthy for once (ha!) and not obsess.

posted July 11, 2009 06:41 PM         

actually experience has given me a understanding of composites.i've only read robert hands composite book and then of course ebertins classic on midpoints.
i guess you might say it come naturally