posted October 04, 2009 11:04 PM         

I'm a past-life agnostic now, but I always believed as a little kid when people would talk about past lives that this was my first one here. And it still feels that way.

posted October 05, 2009 01:58 AM         

Then again, maybe it's your first life as a human being (like me... according to a few past life readers who've said I was a creature many times, but being human was new for me. Which is funny because I sometimes don't feel completely human LOL!)... I kid, of course. I'm completely torn about it and remain curious, but also very unconvinced about absolutes.

posted October 05, 2009 02:32 AM         

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"

posted October 05, 2009 07:16 AM         

------------------
•' •.♥♫♫´°°♫ • Life is Beautiful •.♥.•♫°°´♫♫ ♥ •

•Sun• Cancer
•Moon• Gemini
•Mars• Cancer
•Mercury• Cancer
•Venus• Leo

posted October 05, 2009 10:23 AM         

I would subscribe to the theory that this is your first human incarnation before I would say you are "brand new."

I believe in past lives, I'm just not sure to what extent. I don't believe that past lives can always be used to explain away negative things in this life, or even good things, or connections with people. It's just a small part of the puzzle. However, when I was 9 or 10 I had an experience that definitely convinced me that our coming here is a CHOICE we are given, and that it is purposeful. That experience also convinced me that deep down inside we all long to go "home", whatever that means to us. For me, it meant a longing to be reunited with the Creator on the soul level, after being forced to stick it out and experience whatever it was I was supposed to be experiencing here.

My belief in past lives doesn't exclude me from believing in organized religion...or agnosticism...I can't allow for atheism though. There is definitely a Divine...something out there! IMO there's a kernel of truth in all the world's religions. I love them all! LOL--Neptune is my chart ruler, I can get away with such things.

MVM, as far as you not being entirely human, or not having always been human...I'm glad I'm not the only one to think such things. Phew! Thank goodness for LL being a place to express such beliefs that would most likely get us laughed out of polite society I get the distinct feeling that I was feline at some point--I am very animalistic, and definitely feline, in some of my behaviors--people comment on it all the time LOL!

posted October 05, 2009 10:31 AM         

What I am asking is, IN GENERAL, for you believers in a series of past lives, where does it start?

I mean, there must be a first human life, right? In which case, if you were living out that FIRST life, how would your past life connections to other human beings work?

DD, yes, I get that each life is unique...but if people are going around saying that, for example, person A and person B were married to each other in Egypt in a past life (which implies that our current incarnation in this particular body is unique, but that our "souls" existed before in a human body in this particular known world, discrete from one another as bodies are discrete from one another)...to people with that belief system, when does the cycle of existence in a human body(or human bodies) begin?

posted October 05, 2009 10:39 AM         

This would mean that there are no "past" lives per se, but there could be "other" lives... With time NOT being linear, it's all happening simultaneously, but our consciousness "chooses" to be aware of one life and not the others, according to the purpose of the soul at that particular time.

So, for me... "past lives" not really. I am not entirely happy with that definition. Whereas "other lives" maybe. That's more plausible for me.

posted October 05, 2009 10:39 AM         

Well, there is not even a proof that past lives exist. I believe in them, yes, but that is different from finding something that proves their factual reality.

And even if two people were married in a past life, it might explain some sort of familiarity, but it definitely does not mean that they have to repeat that in this life again.
So I ccould have been married in a dozen lives to a certain individual, but that would not lead me to conclude we would get married now, too.
Maybe this life would be to experience something new like being NOT MARRIED TO EACH OTHER.

posted October 05, 2009 10:39 AM         

Hmmm. Well I think if one believes in past lives, one has to believe in soul contracts, yes? So a brand new incarnate might have formed soul contracts with the people in his/her life long ago...they wouldn't have necessarily shared "past lives" with another person/soul, but there would be a familiarity there if they were part of the same soul group. This is the part where things start getting a little hazy for me...soul groups and the like.

But you're right, it does have to start somewhere. I can see certain souls having to think long and hard before deciding to incarnate. As for myself, I'm certain this isn't my first life. However, based on that experience I had when I was 9, and even how I feel about it now, I suspect that whenever I pass away from this plane I won't want to come back here for a looooooong time. At least not to Earth, or at least not as a human. It's been exhausting already and I'm still young! I hope we're truly given a choice in the matter--there are some theories/religions that say reincarnation is FORCED until you evolve to a certain point/karma is released, etc.

posted October 05, 2009 10:42 AM         

there are a few others who also believe in simultaneious lives, like IQ or Lara, I think.

posted October 05, 2009 10:57 AM         

For example, the guy I'm dating now, I'm pretty sure we were lovers before. Astrology may even say it is a certainty. And even if we were very happy, it doesn't mean we are meant to be permanent loves in this life. There is such a thing as TOO MUCH familiarity. I can't imagine souls not wanting to branch out a little. And even if you want to stay in proximity to each other, why keep incarnating as lovers? Why not parent/child, siblings, friends, teacher/student, hated enemy, etc.?

Where is IQ? This is his kind of thread.

If given a choice in the matter, perhaps next time I'll ask to be incarnated as Aquarius guy's pampered cat or something. LOL!

posted October 05, 2009 11:01 AM         

In order for me to understand their application of astrology, I feel like it would help to know a little bit more about the belief system they're coming from. I actually wouldn't care that much if not for the astrology.

Most of the soul mate and soul family threads are in the astrology forum, too.

posted October 05, 2009 11:22 AM         

I hoped the grin " " showed how I wasn't too serious about this... but if you must, there was no astro in this, previous to my inquiry. Now DD introduced a bit of astro, and with your recent post, you also, have introduced it.

So, carry on.

posted October 05, 2009 01:35 PM         

As far as how to map it with Astrology this is something that I too am very fascinated with Lucia, I think learning how to accurately map this would be exponential for helping people learn more about themselves and there lifepath.

Ultimately I think its something you must map within yourself first, as you must also feel that connection its a very personal journey. So I would start with what you feel, and then map the energy, it helps you learn how to trust your intuition.

I for one am certain that my first life line on Earth is in Atlantis. And I am positive that other souls from that time period have incarnated as well.

But in My Chart Atlanis is at 13 Taurus:
Inconjunct DNA at 13 Libra
Sextile Osiris at 12 Pisces
Trine Angel at 11 Virgo
Trine NN at 16 Virgo
Trine Valentine at 12 Virgo
Trine Anubis at 14 Cap
Sextile Sphinx at 14 Cancer
Widely Semi Sextile Isis at 10 Aries
And Lucifer at 11 Aries

Interesting story it tells.

Lucia, a great way to start is to actually consider, what is the oldest time in Civilization that you feel some obsession with, like you find everything about it interesting, what is the Era?

Also look at the Civilization you have the strongest emotional and spiritual connection too as I think this is more telling. Your first incarnation would be a very Spiritual one.
For instance with me Spirituality is very mystical, and my views very Zen, way more open than most.
For me Atlantis again is the strongest Civilization I connect too Spiritually as well, and I feel like the memories/energy of that lifeline is very much present, I can feel it much more strongly in my matrix butits still hidden through lifelines of programming, and as I continue to grow and heal emotionally I am slowly starting to access the energy in thought patterns from that lifeline, and with that are soul connections of an immensely spiritual and very beautiful energy, the results of which have created a very harmonious way of life for me, a beautitul way of life. A way of life that I associate with the idea of Atlantis.
Chart wise, I think it would have to be a connection between, a Star System or an Asteroid, (a Civilization one) and your NN, IC, DC, DNA, and most importantly I think your Lucifer Asteriod, as to me this would let you know where you first seperated from the Source intitially energy wise.

posted October 05, 2009 01:56 PM         

------------------
"The only way out is through" ---Robert Frost

posted October 05, 2009 02:02 PM         

Life/soul/spirit as energy, similar to electricity. When you die, your spirit is added back into a pool of that energy that resides around us all the time. When a new living being receives life/animation/sapience, it's "new soul" is comprised of a random pulling/gathering of that pool of energy. If that's to be believed, we've all been the same being, all been soul mates, all been enemies, etc many, many times. It could also explain the lack of passion, spirituality and "soul" we find in each other as Earth's population increases.

It would mean that we all originated from the same original "soul" (or star, or illumination, or chunk of energy, etc), and it began there. Sort of like a BIG SOUL BANG or what have you. And since then we've been splitting and merging and splitting and merging for thousands of years, in infinite combinations.

I don't feel any particular obsession or pull toward any distant human history/mythology, really. I love and study history for my own personal enjoyment, but have never gotten any sense that I belonged in any of those times/places. How can I tell if my fascinations with say, the Vestal virgins and tantric priestesses, points to a past life experience or just STUFF I DIG as aerialcircus circa 1982, vis a vis my personality?

And how come no one ever feels a pull toward being something ordinary or "insignificant?" A slave in Egypt who died young and miserable dragging rocks up to the top of a pyramid over and over until his body gave out, for example? You know those people existed by the millions, so if reincarnation is real there would be lots of those floating around, right?

posted October 05, 2009 02:29 PM         

I also think that someone's education level (not necessarily formal education, although mine is) in history, comparative religions, and mythology shapes how nuanced our sense of history is. I think a lot of people who believe in past lives seem to have a sort of crude, un-nuanced "greatest hits" sense of history, culled from pop culture and grade school...hence all the Cleopatra stuff.

I would be very excited to hear from historians, scholars of mythology, or archaeologists who believe in past lives. But, as I said before, in my case, if I did believe in (semi)linear past lives in which my friend X. existed as a particular, actual historical individual who was Cleopatra's servant--that kind of thing--I would know for sure that this is my first, and ONLY, human incarnation! That doesn't lessen my fascination and obsession with various historical moments and cultural turns. In fact, I think it increases it. Maybe I am a deity, LOL. Maybe we are all deities.

MVM, I get flashes of other people's "past lives" a lot doing readings. I use them as powerful metaphors. They often help people untangle tricky psychological or spiritual issues that they're struggling with right now.

posted October 05, 2009 02:34 PM         

quote:

---

And how come no one ever feels a pull toward being something ordinary or "insignificant?"

---

Exactly. Also, those people never seem to record the birth time of lizards, snakes, mosquitos or blades of grass and painstaking check the asteroid synastry to see if they share a "Soul Family." People always seem to want to share a Soul Family with Johnny Depp, or to be Soul Mates with whoever gives them a hard-on in this incarnation.

I think the lack of focus on the "insignificant," though, is less about gradiosity than a lack of nuanced historical study. Cleopatra is high-profile/well-known. So is Johnny Depp. The vast majority of people throughout history have NOT been part of *recorded* history.

quote:

---

Life/soul/spirit as energy, similar to electricity. When you die, your spirit is added back into a pool of that energy that resides around us all the time. When a new living being receives life/animation/sapience, it's "new soul" is comprised of a random pulling/gathering of that pool of energy.

---

posted October 05, 2009 03:03 PM         

" don't feel any particular obsession or pull toward any distant human history/mythology, really. I love and study history for my own personal enjoyment, but have never gotten any sense that I belonged in any of those times/places. How can I tell if my fascinations with say, the Vestal virgins and tantric priestesses, points to a past life experience or just stuff I dig as aerialcircus circa 1982, vis a vis my personality?"

Again that is something that you must answer for yourself. You must find your own inner truth. Your fascinations with Vestal Virgins and Tantric priestnesses could be just stuff you dig as Aerialcircus circa 1892. And if that is your truth then so be it. Personally for me that wouldnt answer deeper questions. I was fascinated by Ancient Egypt as a child because I thought the people were beautiful and strong and just so regal. I remember reading bible stories mesmerized by how I envisioned the Pharoah and this throne when Moses approached him and I still am, alot of the beliefs make sense to me, there take of on life is mindblowing, like asessing another dimensions of belief. For me it is like remembering what I already have known. How else would explain Lucid dreams.
The Egyptians believed in Lucid dreams. I had never heard of them before learning this part of the Egyptian beliefs.
They were obsessed with staying the 3D as long as possible, and had belief that between wake and sleep one enters a state of what is called Lucid dreams in which you can actually control your dreams.
You just have to learn to ask yourself, am I dreaming?
And say, ...yes I am and function in the dream as if you were you, and not some 3rd person observing. In this state they believed that you could recieve information from other dimensions, and that is what they did. I do not believe those stones were dragged in place by slaves. They are cut and placed precisely, in such a way that they have lasted all thses 100s of years....one could say humans did it as slaves or they had help, is the cup half empty or full...
But anyway after learning this, I have learned to control my dreams, and since I have done this I have gained an immense amount of emotional strength. And my life just just keeps gettting better and better.
I no longer act on emotions that I would have acted on 6 months ago. And the conflicts and problems I was having are dissolving, but so are the ways of thinking that I have carried with me all my life.
Its a transformation of huge preportions for me.
My last Lucid dream I had was about my ex wife, and was able to tell her something that I have not told her that I know she needs to hear from me, even 10 years later.
The settings were the same, but I made a different decision, one that was more honest with myself and with her.
This happened right before I had a scene that I needed to channel the energy my wife and I had. Coincidence?
Maybe?
Half empty or half full.....its all how you look at it.
I cannot just assume that I am Darius only intested in Egypt because its interesting and its something I dig. But that is just me and my truth, but maybe you can understand why I see things the way I do, just as I see the way you see it. No worries. Its what makes life interesting. Understanding 2 view points. Air is not better than Water is it? No.
Just different.

"And how come no one ever feels a pull toward being something ordinary or "insignificant?" A slave in Egypt who died young and miserable dragging rocks up to the top of a pyramid over and over until his body gave out, for example? You know those people existed by the millions, so if reincarnation is real there would be lots of those floating around, right?"

I totally get what you are saying here as well. And again I like the way you think. I have lifelines that are very simple, and insignificant I am certain of it. Those lifelines I feel I connect through through friends that I have had for years. For instance I have a bestfriend, I have been friends with for 26 years. Since we were 4...we went to school together, and college together, and have stayed in touch talking at least 3 or 4 time a month, depending on what is going on in our lives.
With her, we have a very simple friendship, quiet modest and easy. She feels like we could have been married and thousand times over in past lives, a close energy resonance nonetheless. But I am aware of a very simple life with her, a marriage and romantic love that lasted a lifetime, whether romantic or platonic.

In our Synastry we have:
DNA con DNA
Neptune Con Moon
Kaali Con Spirit
Spirit Con Angel DW
Saturn Con Saturn
Saturn Con Angel DW
Valentine con Valentine
Valentine con Spirit
Valentine con Saturn
Valaentine con NN
NN con NN
NN con ASC
Saturn Con ASC
Angel Con ASC
Spirit Con ASC
Kaali Con ASC DW

Whats interesting is she has Angel, conjunct NN conjunt Saturn, conjunct Spirit just like me, I have 2 other friends in my life that have this in there charts. And I feel the same energy with all of them.
Plus why ever would you want to go back to those painful lives unless it is necessary for transformation and growth.
I did a scene 3 months ago, where I had to play a slave boy, and in the scene he experiences listening to his mother getting beat and raped and running away.
At first I was like whatever, but by the second day, I got pulled into it. And I suddenly connected with some energy that was in me, and this overwhelming sadness just took over, and I was that slaveboy, in that yard, listening to his mama get beat and planning to run away. I had to fight back tears of pain, but it made the scene work. But it was so emotional for me, that when I had to do the running away scene, I lost my self in reality and found myself coming to not even really remembering running. It went just that far for me.
I was sad for days afterwards, and suddenly have a profound respect for what the African Slaves went through, as though it happened to me. I feel it now like I am remembering.
I never knew I had that in me. But honey you are experiencing those lives right now.
You are very much a slave in this matrix.
We are very much slaves, working 9 to 5. Running home feeding kids, watching television and going to bed. Never giving any thoughts to making this world a better place, much less making ourselves better people. Giving no thought to living life to the fullest even when they can. How can we, when we are programmed to just survive..... That is how life is designed to be for each and everyone of us "sheep".
So it is my humble opinion to rise out of that state of your energy matrix. Remember it and ground in it. Because slavery is hard work, and just staying alive within itself takes a strong soul. And we must remember we are no better than anyone else.
But that lifeline need no longer work at the helm. Call on him when you need him, to work out, or eat right, or to preservere through some huge task or project, or trying life situation. But now I think it is time for us to remember all of our lifelines, good and bad. And then find balance in that energy Matrix which is your own. Our Chakras have been distorted for to many lifelines now.

"It's just one of those things, I guess, that maybe isn't SUPPOSED to add up. I'm 100% aware that I know 100% nothing about the origin of life, and that's a-okay with me."

And that is the very point, ultimately at the end of the day, we just came here to be. However we play this game, as long as we are here doing what we came to do, thats all that counts. Allow your level of and amount of happiness, peace and abundance in your life be your litmus test. Your heart Chakra is where balance is found, it is the color green, and manifest in life as Abudance, Peace, Happiness, and Oxygen, things that should abound in our life if our Energies are balanced.
Ultimately though all that is, is as it should be. So there is nothing wrong with you feeling like you are just you liking something, and its ok if you dont connect with a specific time of incarnating or a past lifeline. Because this is your experience. But there is one truth that guides us all, and there in lies all the fun.

posted October 05, 2009 03:25 PM         

Well, that is not true for me. As a matter of fact I mainly remember lives or scenes from a life as so called "insignificant" people. Actually I prefer the term "non-famous", cause I think all people are significant.

It does not need to mean that I REALLY was living that life; it could be just a metaphor for something.

I remember for example:
° being the wife of a Captain / Seargent who had moved from England to America in the 16th century

° being the inhabitant of a sort of concentrationcamp in a Czech city, with the name of Brno

I mention these two, cause they came to me in the strangest ways.
The first one I experienced during a meditation; not the whole life, just key scenes and I even recalled my husband`s name. That was in 1991 and I wrote down what I have been seeing and feeling, and it was so strange, cause I was feeling so "un-intellectual" in that "dream". I certainly didn`t know one single word in Latin.

Years later I got my first computer and internet access, actually it was 2001 or 2002, and I googled the name of "my" husband just for fun and to prove to myself that I was delusional and that it was just a strange dream.
But actually I found the exact name, which I could not have heard before. It was part of a family tree of that family, and this was put in thhe internet long after my dream. And he really is no famous character. Yet, I got the birthdates, at least his, right; his job; his origin and the country "we" were living in and I recalled several of "my" children, one of the youngest I have even seen in my vision.

It was a strange thing.

The other memory came to me in a dream, actually in two dreams, and each time I didn`t want to get drawn into that dream; I didn`t want to "exerience" these feelings again. And I felt it physically, really physically. No I did not die in this dream. But the feelings of humiliation, of cold and especially hunger were really really painful. No, painful isn`t the right word. I have NEVER felt anything like this before, and I really don`t want to anymore.

There was also a sort of "love-story" involved in that, but not love in the sense like we would know. Sometimes love can be just the thankfulness for having survived the last day.
It is only through this dream, that I realized how much people can be reduced to just the mere "existence" and the struggle for survival.

Of course this dream could have been just the sum of my compassion for what happened to the Jews back then, and not only to the Jews. I am German, so of course I have been growing up with the knowledge of what happened in the Third Reich, but I have only the knowledge of the "famous" camps, and I certainly never heard of a city called Brno before.

I have seen that plate before the camp with that name "Brno" on it in the dream. And even in that dream I thought that I must have misread it, cause I thought that was not really a word.

Well, it is not a German word, it is actually the exact Czech name of a city that actually exists. Brno. And it contained a concentration camp; but I really had to dig deep in the internet to find that out.

Coincidences? Maybe. But personally I feel those are very unlikely coincidences.

posted October 05, 2009 03:32 PM         

Jeffrey Wolf Green,a founder of Evolutionary Astrology, looks at geocentric south planetary nodes for clues into pastlife karma.

Nodes are just orbital interfaces involving 2 objects.

therefore, all objects have nodes.

the Moon isn't the only object to have nodes.

you can calculate heliocentric nodes and geocentric nodes of objects

heliocentric nodes move very slow up to 1 degree per century,and so they have to do with collective matters

geocentric nodes move relatively quickly ,
Mercury,Venus,Mars,and asteroid nodes move quickly,and they can be used in synastry.
the nodes of Jupiter and objects beyond move slowly,and so they are like generational or even collective.

geocentric asteroid nodes - personal karma
heliocentric asteroid nodes - collective karma

you can calculate them here: http://www.true-node.com/pos/

you have to add them first http://www.true-node.com/add/

for example

I loved Perth, Western Australia. I went there when I was in the navy on WESTPAC deployment,and I loved it. I felt so connected to the city. I really wanted to live there. That was back in November 1993.

In my chart:

Perth in 11'32 Scorpio in 3rd
sextile/trine Asc/Desc in 13'27 Virgo/Pisces
square True Lunar Nodes in 10'30 Aquarius/Leo in 6th and 12th
square Mean Lunar Nodes in 10'00 Aquarius/Leo in 6th and 12th
Gemini/Sagittarius
quincunx Chiron in 10'32 Aries R in 8th
quincunx Eris in 12'15 Aries R in 8th
quincunx/semisextile MC/IC in 11'14

Geocentric North Perth Node in 0'45 Virgo in 1st
square Neptune in 1'48 Sagittarius in 4th

Geocentric South Perth Node in 11'43 Capricorn in 5th
sextile Perth in 11'32 Scorpio in 3rd

Heliocentric Perth Nodes in 9'06 Leo/Aquarius in 12th and 6th
oppose Mean Lunar Nodes in 10'00 Aquarius/Leo in 6th and 12th
trine/sextile 4th/7th house ruler Jupiter in 8'17 Sagittarius in 4th

Raymond

------------------
"Nothing matters absolutely;
the truth is it only matters relatively"