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Author Topic:   Are we marrying or breaking up?
lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
we decided to get married last week. but it seems that we are breaking up. very funny…

i cannot explain in one post the complexities of my relationship, but it sure is the life/death roller coaster ride… i need help understanding what's going on…

according to Anne Ortelee, this week is the major separating and letting go time. so, i'm wondering, is this finally, FINALLY the time?

i don't even know where to start… we are both in very difficult times in our lives. my residence permit is expiring in a few months, and i always understood that my partner was not interested in marrying me for the visa (i have limited methods due to circumstances). our relationship has been EXTREMELY trying. i've put up with his terrible behaviours for a long time and considered many times to leave this possibly once-in-life-time relationship (it's only terrible because our lives are the worst possible atm). but finally i felt like it was going nowhere, especially if i have to leave the country.

so i broke up with him (it was hard!) and mentioned that marriage would have helped (even financially, mutually). then he came around and said he will marry me. i was pessimistic and skeptical, but he was firm and assured me that i should not be discouraged before we try. it was a seriously life-changing event for me, i've been a partial exile for 15 years. but after that, it was never mentioned again…

so… today i confronted him (i sure was rightfully angry). he totally flipped out and got exasperated that "I" don't understand how hard his life circumstances are and how i could even consider it would be possible for us to get married.

ow, that was a REAL cold shower… out of nowhere! i am speechless.

not just the disappointment of the broken off marriage, i'm also suddenly sobered up. what is wrong with this guy? i cannot possibly take him seriously… he's rambling nonsense… and with my visa expiring soon, things are not looking up much for me. i'm sooooo scared.


ANYWAY so astrology. popcorn took a look at my Solar return and she was sure i'll marry this year. it also looks considerably better than the charts from previous years. i really expected this hell on earth life phase ends this year…

i'm not quite out of the shock yet and it terrifies me… i've been staring at the charts and i just cannot make out anything. i see good aspects, and i see bad aspects. well, i see lots of intense aspects.

could anyone tell me what's going on? i don't even know which way is up...

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 04:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
my transit today-

his transit today-

my Solar return this year-


his Solar return this year-

what a bummer… i was a bit looking forward to put up our marriage chart for everyone's resource here.

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Belage
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posted March 17, 2011 05:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Belage     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am not sure I am seeing anything in your chart that indicates marriage this year.

Asides from needing a residence card, I don't see why you even want to marry this person.

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol does he look that bad?

yea our Synastry isn't the greatest. i have NO idea what it is, but for both of us we've never had a meaningful relationship like this one.

we don't want to marry either, aside the visa thing. but we very much see our future with each other. and the Synastry doesn't indicate much of that. very strange. we are more like partners and comrades than lovers.

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LuvinU
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posted March 17, 2011 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LuvinU     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I see rushing - you are rush, rush, rush to hear what you want to hear, see and do what you want to do while wanting your life to drastically change like yesterday. He wants to feel love for you but taking stock of what he has is making him realize that he may have to wait on the marriage to make sure his stock is 'enough for two much less one' and he wants to tell you this, he wants you to understand this without too many challenging questions. He doesn't seem like he is much of a optimistic person aka he may tend to prepare for the worse. He doesn't seem to be the greatest communicator and it's especially noticeable right now just as your situation may be a bit more difficult than you make it out to be, especially right now. I say - you both should deal with your individual situation so that if/when you do get married - these matters won't wreck havoc on you both. I think it's good to address these matters now rather than later on down the line. Who said partnerships are easy???

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 06:45 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Luvin, i think you nailed it... he is an awful communicator and half the time i have no idea what's going on. it's not easy at all.

i want to rush it yes, because i'm afraid i'm running out of time. and at the same time, i want him to communicate with me his thoughts instead of deciding everything in his mind alone. if he thought it wasn't possible, he needed to tell me so. it seemed simple to me... so i tried to talk with him and he flipped out and it left me just confused.

so back to grind, i guess. i feel like i made a fool out of myself a bit...

thank you.

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racole12
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posted March 17, 2011 06:53 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for racole12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A little bit latter I want to look at your guys progressions and see if anything is popping up... after a take a nap. Me, being a Sag also, how in the hell do you handle that much virgo energy?? I understand maybe being able to handle someone's Sun being there but geeesh!

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 06:55 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
racole, by breaking my neck... it's hell of a ride!

progressions will be ready when you wake up!

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 07:13 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
will these do?

me

him

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lechien
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posted March 17, 2011 07:18 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
btw, a few years ago i noticed my pr. AC will line up with his Natal AC around this time. i see now that it's aligned.

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Nine
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posted March 17, 2011 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your pSun conjunct pVenus definitely indicates marriage. Either a need/desire/longing within you to get married, or a resignation that maybe it's time.

...however this pSynastry is rife with tension. First, your pVenus square his nMars in an applying square. Then your pVenus, again, in applying square to his pSun. The orb between Sun & Venus is nine degrees. The square is a challenging separative aspect. Because it's applying it tells you will have to expend tons of energy to make things happen.

Separately, he's in the midst of a pLQ (progressed last quarter). This is a challenging period of letting go. A new cycle of development beckons & to benefit fully one much let go of past associations & structures which have outlived their utility. He should be feeling this right now.

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mir
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posted March 18, 2011 05:21 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Lechien,..

He WILL marry you (is what I really really think)
I've been in the same situation 20 years ago but *he* was the one whose residence was expiring within a certain time, so *I* had to 'choose' whether I would marry him or not, well in my heart I knew I had no choice than to marry him although I sort of acted as if I had one.
We lived together and our relationship had also been extremely trying like yours.
I'd always blamed him for using me, for acting as if he loved me just to have his residence etc.
Not very long after he had his residence we broke up because I couldn't deal with the distrust anymore as I saw him literally change when he got it etc, nor did he.
Only after our break up I found out he TRULY loved me but then it was too late.. well not really too late because now, 20 years later, he's still a very confident part of my and my family's life. I didn't experience a love like that anymore but back then I had so many dreams about what love must be...

I felt I had to say this because your story really touched my

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lechien
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posted March 18, 2011 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
thank you you are very kind to take a look at my charts…


Nine, yes, this "letting go of the old structure" has been his theme since about 2 years now. he's really trying to revolutionarise his life, because it's necessary to survive. he's really suffering much from it too…

also, we have loads of square in Natal Synastry as well. do you think the pr. Squares are emphasising them even more too? it's indeed been consuming us of so much extra effort to keep things together and contained, but we know it's not the relationship problem, it's the circumstances… we both want to get out of this phase together and experience our "togetherness" under a different light.


mir, your story brought tears to my eyes… i know so well what you and your guy went through. i don't think my guy necessarily thinks that i'm using him, but i feel like that, and there's also a certain tension because as you probably understand, there is a sense of dependency resulting from the fact i don't have a full freedom. before i met him, i dated some guys and they all had it in the back of their heads "marriage = dependency". it's the reverse for me. it's a pass to my freedom.

i kind of got fixated to the idea that once we get married this particular tension between us will be eliminated, and also i will feel less inhibited and he will feel the lessening of the load. it seems it's not his idea. but i cannot really criticise him for that either. we just have different ideas.

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Nine
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posted March 18, 2011 11:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Nine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Confession: It was late when I made the earlier post & I must've been out of it.

Your guy is not in the midst of a pLQ. Actually he just came through a pFull Moon - a period of realization where one reaches a culmination point. Reward for hard work pays off, or slackers are punished for lack of effort. In the latter case, one feels as though life is falling apart.

quote:
also, we have loads of square in Natal Synastry as well. do you think the pr. Squares are emphasising them even more too?

Yes, the progressed chart underlines our relevant/today/here & now needs. So aspects between these charts emphasized & immediately felt.

My thoughts on the paper marriage...

Of those I have intimate knowledge, the women had ulterior motives.

They were lovers but things ultimately cooled off. She said; marry me so I can get my papers to live and work legally in your country. I only want my papers. He said; yes. She said; when members of my family get married, we stay married for life. I've always wanted a baby & I'm not getting any younger. I am your wife. He said; that wasn't what we agreed on. She said; I'm not hearing you.

Last I heard, she wasn't happy. ::tears:: 'I don't think he loves me'

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lechien
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posted March 18, 2011 12:46 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
lol that made me laugh...

well let's hope that's not happening to us. actually i have a feeling it'll be the opposite. when we manage to get our feet on ground, he might want to become a daddy. i'm not ready for that one!

it's a relief that it's time of culmination for him... he's struggled forrrrevvveerrrr... he IS and has been feeling like he's falling apart though. he did not make much progress despite all the struggle. only obstacle after obstacle. but i trust all his hard work is coming into reality and his success... it has to...

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lechien
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posted March 21, 2011 10:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
or am i making a mistake to go on trusting in "us"?

i feel a bit silly to be this way on an online forum, but i'm facing a crisis. i've posted in the past how the life has been exceptionally bad and needed help interpreting the charts. i won't go on explaining what's going on, for one because it's just not possible and it's probably pointless.

i feel quite… bad, and it's not good. i see only a deadend and i've run out of time to make much out of what's left. i feel doomed.

there's not much i can do at this point, i've made mistakes in the past, and probably a fair amount of good decisions too, but this is where i am ending up at the moment. my life is upside down and i keep thinking in circles, it's a never-ending nightmare.

all that aside, i don't know what's going on between me and my partner anymore. our life circumstances completely overwhelmed everything and it just went null. we had very terrible time together, but one thing is that our love is genuine, and it kept me going no matter how torturous situations were.

our love is still genuine now. but everything just went beyond all that. i feel quite like i'm just underwater without knowing which way is up or down, blinded by my own air bubbles, and paddling desperately hoping i will touch something that i can hold onto even for a little. i have no orientation anymore.

am i a fool to have faith in our love? is he just overwhelmed and just in denial that marriage can actually, possibly halve our problems? i don't think he's a traditionalist who believes marriage has to be "pure". he WILL probably marry me, when he judges the time is right. but it's clear to me that when that time comes, it will all be too late. is he making the right judgement or wrong? am i good with trusting it?

am i just waiting to be doomed? as there isn't much i can do with the time left, it may not make a difference… no matter what i do now, i don't really believe that i can affect much positively on my visa situation. i know some people want to tell me that trying to get the residence permit by marrying is like "cheating" or the "lazy way". but all immigrants in the situation know that it's the only sensible and sure way.

ack, i cut it out before i ramble on too much. i'm sorry i don't want to spread depressing vibe or anything. i'll try to drink something hot and calm my nerves now. thank you for reading…

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mir
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posted March 22, 2011 09:34 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mir     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Lechien,
He knows what the consequences would be if he's not marrying you before the Visa is expiring?
He will lose you, your love and there's no way back... well, that's the most realistic scenario I can imagine and with all his Virgo he seems realistic enough to be aware of that.
So I'm really wondering what's going on in him right now, .. probably it would be a lifelong regret if he's not giving you (both) a chance and well, he's not the youngest anymore, the love is genuine and to find something like that again isn't easy at all so why shouldn't he?
And then the other hand... what's making it so extremely difficult for him to marry you?
It seems he does not want to give you any hope but at the same time he gives you hope by not being very clear, by letting you terribly suffer right now and the only reason I can find for that is that he's suffering himself because he doesn't know what to do..

I can imagine how hard this all must be for you.. losing love & residence at the same time is too much, the insecurity must be driving you (both) insane.. I wish I could help more!

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GypseeWind
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posted March 22, 2011 10:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for GypseeWind     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Hi Lechien;
Your story touched me as well, and although I cannot help you astrologically, I can offer you this:

I (also Sag) married someone twenty years ago for untraditional reasons. I needed insurance, and in order to get it, we had to be married. My ex is a Cappy, not Virgo..
but still, same issues, no communication, felt more like a partner/comrade, etc..

I just want to say that looking back I feel that in a way I wasted the best years of my life waiting for this man to love me the way I wanted, and he never did.

I kept thinking after each child was born that THIS would finally cement him into the role as husband. Clearly he didn't want that from the start, or at least didn't want it then, and held resentment toward me all these years.

I finally left (am still in the process of moving!) about a month ago.

I wish I would of done things differently, the signs were clearly there for me to see, only I wasn't paying attention.

I hope you find a way to get your visa (hell, I'de marry you if I could, just to help you out!) and I hope things work out differently for you.

I didn't mean to sound like a downer, it just worries me when both people don't want to get married 100% because once you ARE married, things only magnify.

Best of Luck Dear.

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kama
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posted March 22, 2011 11:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kama     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Dear Lechien,
I am very surprised to see that neither your ways of thinking nor your ways of acting harmonize. Seing your charts I really wonder what your motives are to marry. Your chart shows that you are doing evrything for a partner and partnership - but also on your terms, for your personal aims.
Are you sure that this special man could be your one and only "for a whole life"????
Maybe these troubles are also a chance for you to see some lack of compatibility in termperament?
I wish you all the best
kama

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lechien
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posted March 25, 2011 10:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
it seems the life circumstances are really overwhelming him… mir, as you say, he is suffering too much himself and he is probably also suffering from the fact he is making me suffer too.

i am aware of that, but it is often very difficult to just have a proper comprehension because of his complete lack of communication. his Virgo wants to make everything around him his responsibility and he resolves everything within him, even when it's a relationship with another person. it actually is very bad because without intending to, he takes away my freedom of choice and ends up trapping me in situations where i don't have enough information/knowledge/resources to make judgements for myself. but no matter how may times i try to explain that to him, he really does not accept that he does that.

i went in circles after circles mulling over trying to determine whether it's him who is a problem, or the circumstances, or that we are just an entirely wrong combination, it was so, so, so hard.

but finally, he has communicated with me. he said he needs a few more days to come in terms with things and sort things out. then he wants to have a talk with me. he said he is not going to be weird and crazy so i should not worry or fear.

i really don't know what he wants to do yet. but he did mentioned briefly he needs to deal with his disastrous finance…

Gypsee, i'm sorry to hear your story, and thank you for sharing. that's very very hard when you realise something like that after decades. i thought of that as well, how will i feel when the different light shines upon us when the circumstances change…? i can only try to imagine. one thing is that we are both unsure of everything. our lives are in turmoil and anything can happen and everything can change. i will never know until we finally stand at the place where we think things stabilised and are going to stay that way more or less for a while. that is one thing that is making my judgements blurry too, that i cannot tell for sure how we will be feeling in the future. at the moment, we do feel that there must be some very special something between us, because by coming through the hard times, we've seen the good and the worst of each other, and we are still hanging there together, waiting to see the BEST of each other. and to see that "best", the circumstances need to change. we want to change the circumstances because we want the "best". so we've come this far, and we will probably anyway regret deeply if we give up now and never see "what could have been"…

i really hope you are not suffering too much in your process of "leaving". and thanks for your your offer to marry me haha! very sweet of you.

kama, my motive for marriage is to get myself a permanent residence here. and this has clouded my romantic relationships every time. because no matter how casual and fun a "relationship" starts off, it is always in the back of our minds, that if things start getting serious, the subject of marriage would come up. i've tried other ways to keep temp visas, but my life has become the life of getting approval from the immigration office. i want to have a life that is my own and i'm fed up. me and my partner don't feel restricted by the idea that we are the love of each other's life and we'll stay forever together. would be nice, but we also know how fickle life can be. but for the moment, we prefer to feel that we are very special to each other, and even if we may go separate ways, we'll remain special to each other throughout life.

i'm still uncertain and it's scary. in a few days i will find out...

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kama
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posted March 27, 2011 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for kama     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
dear lechien,
I really do wish you all best!
And: make sure that the chart of your wedding definitively shows love and affection! As it will show your personal motives, your relationship might otherwise come out with a lot of duties and responsabilities!!! Be aware of all the capricorn/saturn + venus + moon + mercury stuff!!!!
As you know: the way a story starts the way it ends!
Warm regards
kama

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lechien
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posted March 29, 2011 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
kama, thank you.

we will stay together. but life is very bad and we can see no horizon at the moment. it's scary, but all i can do for now is to just wait and take care of day-to-day things. i hope the fog clears out soon. i don't know what's going to happen.

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dysfunctionalmystic
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posted March 29, 2011 02:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for dysfunctionalmystic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You have tr Saturn hovering over your natal Pluto, that is a big transit...and one that indicates separation more than marriage. I'd say that until Saturn has cleared Pluto you won't know where things will settle. Saturn clears it around the end of September.

His chart has Venus in Virgo which has just had to endure Uranus being in opposition for the last year or so which will have made it very difficult for him to commit...my venus is only 2 degrees away from his so I know exactly how that will have affected him, he's also had Uranus opposing his Mercury very recently ...as in the last couple of weeks...this will not have helped his mental stability or his ability to stick to decisions. I'm not surprised you've had a bumpy ride together.

Natally he's got some heavy stuff to contend with, Moon/ Uranus/ Pluto conjunction? It'll be seriously difficult for him to commit - not impossible but very hard.

What concerns me is the need for so many charts...it screams that you have no idea what's going on, which means you're not communicating with him and you don't feel secure...not good indicators that you'll be getting married soon. I noticed you said you want to talk but he doesn't and that you don't want him deciding everything in his mind alone...I can understand your need to know but it sounds like he might be freaking out by how you are phrasing your questions, maybe he could write things down if he finds it hard to say it out loud?

It's your chart that is currently showing the need to let go of outgrown structures (tr sat con natal pl) which you appeared to do when you ended it...but then you went back on what you felt/did/said...and Saturn is retrograding over the pluto in your chart.


Looking at his chart I don't doubt for a second that he can be seriously difficult at times but you have a lot of fire (me too)and that's not always easy for others to deal with. But I do think it's a good idea that he'll talk in a few days...because of Jupiter (his Jupiter return)...he'll be more expressive and more optimistic but personally I still think it'll be the end of summer before this situation is fully resolved.

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racole12
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posted March 29, 2011 03:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for racole12     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by dysfunctionalmystic:
You have tr Saturn hovering over your natal Pluto, that is a big transit...and one that indicates separation more than marriage. I'd say that until Saturn has cleared Pluto you won't know where things will settle. Saturn clears it around the end of September.

I'm trying to understand this... since this is a generational thing that is going on. My boyfriend and I have it going on right now and there has been no talk about separation and plus majority of the people I know have this going on right now and nobody is separating... there has to be a little more than that... like personal planets being hit... like the T Saturn opposite Moon, and the T Pluto conj ASC... (from personal experience when Pluto conj my DSC I went thru a huge break-up with someone I thought I was going to marry)

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lechien
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posted March 29, 2011 04:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for lechien     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
oy oy… but thank you, it helps me to have a perspective in some way.

i was feeling weary about that Saturn! after i had my Saturn return, it squared my heavy Sagittarius house, and now my NN and Pluto. i really wanted to scream at it "just go away!" we met and started things during my Saturn return too… when Saturn clears, as you say in September, that'll be too late for my visa. i don't know what's going to happen…

and yes, we have our Stelliums in square in Virgo and Sagittarius. so certain difficulties were expected… i've subdued so much of my fire in this relationship, i literally changed and i think i'm trying to light some back to balance it now. it was a good experience to learn to be sensitive, but i do need to get some of the fire back too.

i see his difficulty to commit, though he's not interested in anyone else. he's also not that young to be getting distracted by that either. it's something a little hard for me to understand, but i have to respect his needs in this to a reasonable degree. anyway, he'd never been a cheating type and he's been with one of the girlfriends for 7 years. but i know better now, relationship with him is just extremely rocky. he will never cheat, but he will stop being intimate, become allergic to affections, then come back all sugar sweet, then freak out again, never just "sit down and enjoy". but it's all making sense in his Virgo brain. ugh…


THE problem is his life… he is utterly overwhelmed. he's quite good at keeping his head level with all that Virgo, but yesterday he finally said he GAVE UP. he thought he would take all his remaining money and spend it on things he always wanted. but *unfortunately* his friend lent him money, and it made him angry that it even failed to come crumbling down to pieces. he is seeing the "end", and seeing it as the "release", which alarms me. tonight he went out to drink with this guy who is a total a**hole. it's something he promised not to do again, because last year he became very self-destructive and went out and drunk till he couldn't walk. he regressed to that point again.

i know, people would be telling me, "why are you still with the guy? leave him and get a life!"

but this is something exceptional… he is a man with an incredible mental strength. it must take an enormous inhumane thing to break him to this point. i've come through this downfall together with him. oh lord… i fear for him so much. people do not have to endure what he is going through. i don't know why him.

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