posted October 08, 2012 06:01 AM            

I was pondering a bit about soulbased connections in synastry, thinking the IC might play a role.

And I was wondering what you think would be the difference between having someone`s Sun, ASC, Moon etc. conjunct your IC itself as compared to them being conjunct the ruler of the IC.

Of course this goes for the other housesynastry as well.

posted October 08, 2012 06:42 AM            

To me the 4th house relates to where we seek our refuge, and comfort, away the ‘hardness’ of the outside world. It’s not a romantic house usually, unless the 4th is works as a secondary 5th, 7th or 8th house in your chart. In both our cases the 4th house works as the secondary 8th house, because of Cancer being on the 8th house cusp. Cancer on the 8th house cusp indicates experiencing emotional comfort as a strong from of intimacy… With Aries on the 4th house in your case, you may gain this type of comfort from very direct and honest reassurance, a type of fiery encouragement if you will. People with planets in this house may inspire you to open up because of their direct encouraging energy. They might make you feel free to be equally direct, in a positive sort of way, within the private confines of that relationship. Synastry involving planets in the 4th in your case would press your ‘intimacy’, ‘secret shearing’, and ‘merging’ buttons along with the traditional associations of the 4th house… A feeling of belonging and safety with someone.

posted October 10, 2012 07:09 AM            

yes, the IC is for me similiar to what you described; it doesn´t necessarily means there is a romantic connection with it.
BUT being the point of the chart where it is metaphorically midnight, it is really the deepest spot. Andw whatever touches there, touches really DEEP.
But usually more in the sense of belonging to the same soulfamily or something like that. Doesn`t say anything about romantic or sexual sparks.
Though there seems to be often a connection between 7th and 4th house in so called soulmate relationships.

"In both our cases the 4th house works as the secondary 8th house, because of Cancer being on the 8th house cusp. Cancer on the 8th house cusp indicates experiencing emotional comfort as a strong from of intimacy…"
Yes, definitely. Interestingly I feel like the 8th house really is like a merging of 4th, 7th and 5th house, which can generate a great emotional, romantic and sexual merging.
Well it is a WATER-house (like the 4th)
it is FIXED (like the 5th)
in the RELATIONSHIP quadrant (like the 7th).

Well, I wouldn´t overanalyze it, but it is pretty much underestimated I guess.

"People with planets in this house may inspire you to open up because of their direct encouraging energy."
Yeah, and most of all they drive me INSANE!
Aries must be the sexiest sign of all, in a different way than Capricorn.
Maybe it is the mix of 8th and 4th for me, could be yes. Passion of the soul.
(Well Capricorn is more the mix of 5th and 8th hosue for me I guess, with primary ruler of 5th in Capricorn and SAturn being secondary 5th house ruler, falling into 8th house - rpobably more 5th and 8th).

"The ruler of the 4th house shows how we extend our 4th house feelers out into the world…"
Yes, I`ve seen it like that as well.
But then I was also thinking maybe the cusp itself might be more immediate and receptive. AS we can not do anything to stretch it out,b ut just receive energy at that point. But maybe I am on the wrong path here.

"Of course for aspects, the conjunction will be the most powerful (which I’m sure you can guess. Dah!)."
Yes, but just lately I`vbe been thinking how important the sextiles are.
For example a guy`s 5th house ruler being conjunct a girl`s BML and sextile her Sun.
Just a friendly spark, but nothing to shout home about?
Or what does it mean if one`s relating houserulers are triggering or triggered by BML in the other chart.

For me personally, BML feels very much like 8th house on legs, or Moon/Pluto in personification.
But maybe I am the only one who experiences her like that.

posted October 11, 2012 06:42 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by VelvetPriestess:
I'd like to know how MC conjunct IC feels.

I wonder also, when using house rulers, do you use the old rulers (Mars for Scorpio, Jupiter for Pisces, etc) or the new, or both?

---

A strong bond. Commitment might be high. It might give a feeling of belonging comparable to a family-pattern almost. NOt necessasrily romantic though. It resonates with Moon/Saturn in planetary terms.
There is possibly a strong feeling of "purposedness" with this one.
However, you have to take into account what planets are aspecting MC and IC and what the ruler of the MC and IC are doing a) natally b) synastrically.

I tend to use new rulers and always cast several sideways glances at the old ones, too.
They are more quickly m oving and might give a few more details.

The old ruler of my 3rd house is in 8th house, and I do tend to think and write a lot about 8th house issues (though Saturn is in my 8th house trine chartruler Jupiter in PIsces in 3rd house as well).

The old ruler of my 11th and 12th house are in 12th house.

Using old rulers you can also see which houses are "tied together" in your chart.

For example in my chart:
Mars rules 4th house (ARies) and 11th/ 12th (scorpio)

Jupiter rules 1st house (Sag) and 3rd (Pisces)

Saturn rules 2nd (Cap) and 3rd (Aqua)

Venus rules 5th/6th (Tau) and 10th (Libra)

posted October 12, 2012 12:36 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Hi Lotiswhite,

yes, the IC is for me similiar to what you described; it doesn´t necessarily means there is a romantic connection with it.
BUT being the point of the chart where it is metaphorically midnight, it is really the deepest spot. Andw whatever touches there, touches really DEEP.
But usually more in the sense of belonging to the same soulfamily or something like that. Doesn`t say anything about romantic or sexual sparks.
Though there seems to be often a connection between 7th and 4th house in so called soulmate relationships.

"In both our cases the 4th house works as the secondary 8th house, because of Cancer being on the 8th house cusp. Cancer on the 8th house cusp indicates experiencing emotional comfort as a strong from of intimacy…"
Yes, definitely. Interestingly I feel like the 8th house really is like a merging of 4th, 7th and 5th house, which can generate a great emotional, romantic and sexual merging.
Well it is a WATER-house (like the 4th)
it is FIXED (like the 5th)
in the RELATIONSHIP quadrant (like the 7th).

Well, I wouldn´t overanalyze it, but it is pretty much underestimated I guess.

"People with planets in this house may inspire you to open up because of their direct encouraging energy."
Yeah, and most of all they drive me INSANE!
Aries must be the sexiest sign of all, in a different way than Capricorn.
Maybe it is the mix of 8th and 4th for me, could be yes. Passion of the soul.
(Well Capricorn is more the mix of 5th and 8th hosue for me I guess, with primary ruler of 5th in Capricorn and SAturn being secondary 5th house ruler, falling into 8th house - rpobably more 5th and 8th).

"The ruler of the 4th house shows how we extend our 4th house feelers out into the world…"
Yes, I`ve seen it like that as well.
But then I was also thinking maybe the cusp itself might be more immediate and receptive. AS we can not do anything to stretch it out,b ut just receive energy at that point. But maybe I am on the wrong path here.

"Of course for aspects, the conjunction will be the most powerful (which I’m sure you can guess. Dah!)."
Yes, but just lately I`vbe been thinking how important the sextiles are.
For example a guy`s 5th house ruler being conjunct a girl`s BML and sextile her Sun.
Just a friendly spark, but nothing to shout home about?
Or what does it mean if one`s relating houserulers are triggering or triggered by BML in the other chart.

For me personally, BML feels very much like 8th house on legs, or Moon/Pluto in personification.
But maybe I am the only one who experiences her like that.

---

Lotiswhite and Ceridwen. I experience much of what you are saying and I had a converstion in another post about this with Lotiswhite I believe...

So, my 7th is Cancer, and in my 4th I have Taurus. My husbands Moon in Taurus Falls in my 4th. And my husbands 4th Saturn falls in my 7th and my 7th Saturn falls in his 4th.

My DC widely conjuncts his IC (8 degree orb). I wonder if this adds to the inresistable connection we feel for eachother.

Also - the asteroid for my name(Cosima) in his chart conjuncts his IC. That is no coincidence.

His Taurus Moon is Square my 8th house Venus and is sextile my 7th Saturn.

There is an undeniable cozy feeling for with him. And for him too. Also, I have fallen hard for Taurus in the past. There is something about them that drives me crazy. I can look at a man and know if they are Taurus by the instant chemistry I feel with them. They have often broken my heart too with unrequited love. Luckily this is the first time is not the case here with my marriage to my husband. He is Sun Gemini too which probably helps things. But there is still that crazy Taurus vibe with him for me.

We also have his Chiron (2 degree) and Par Fortune (1 degree) conjunct my IC. I am sure this adds to our deep connection.

I think the IC is widely under discussed. Particularly if there are not other common indicators in the synastry.

posted October 12, 2012 02:34 PM            

quote:

---

A strong bond. Commitment might be high. It might give a feeling of belonging comparable to a family-pattern almost. NOt necessasrily romantic though. It resonates with Moon/Saturn in planetary terms.
There is possibly a strong feeling of "purposedness" with this one.
However, you have to take into account what planets are aspecting MC and IC and what the ruler of the MC and IC are doing a) natally b) synastrically.

---

Thanks Ceridwen.

as well as IC conjunct MC
also
IC ruler Venus (also 5th house ruler) trine MC ruler Venus
IC ruler Venus trine Mercury
MC ruler Pluto trine MC ruler Venus
MC ruler Pluto trine Mercury
IC ruler Pluto conjunct 8th house ruler Mercury
IC ruler Pluto quincunx Chiron
MC ruler Venus opposite Neptune

posted October 12, 2012 06:09 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by CRCRINCON:
P.S. In Astro.com there are two Liliths. There is the one they include for you to choose from and I think this is the BML and then one in the drop down menu of 1181?? Which do you use? And what is the difference. Do you know?

---

the LIlith in the little box is the MEAN black Moon Lilith; 1181 is ASTEROID Lilith.
I am using neither of them.
Instead I am using TRUE Black Moon Lilith, which has the number h13.

The mean BML seems to work as well, according to some astrologers, but why use an averaged position?
Frankly, in most cases I have found the true Lilith to be far more telling, and yes it IS erratic and wild and untamed energy, so the erratic movement even makes sense symbolically.
Interestingly it has a 9 years orbit and takes 9 months in each sign.
How apt for a lunar point! (well it is not an astronomical body but a calculated point, like the angles or nodal axis, just it is the apogee of the Moon).

posted October 13, 2012 12:27 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

the LIlith in the little box is the MEAN black Moon Lilith; 1181 is ASTEROID Lilith.
I am using neither of them.
Instead I am using TRUE Black Moon Lilith, which has the number h13.

The mean BML seems to work as well, according to some astrologers, but why use an averaged position?
Frankly, in most cases I have found the true Lilith to be far more telling, and yes it IS erratic and wild and untamed energy, so the erratic movement even makes sense symbolically.
Interestingly it has a 9 years orbit and takes 9 months in each sign.
How apt for a lunar point! (well it is not an astronomical body but a calculated point, like the angles or nodal axis, just it is the apogee of the Moon).

Anyway, for me it is not that much difference. MEAN Lilith is on 24 Aquarius, TRUE Lilith on 28 Aquarius.
But it can give a difference up to 30 degrees I believe, a whole sign!

---

posted October 13, 2012 08:08 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by CRCRINCON:
Thank you so much! That helped a lot. And actually for me it's quite the difference in my chart. It's at 7 versus 12 and in my husbands and my Synastry changes things too... Now my sun opposes his Lilith and my Lilith trines his Pluto and sextiles his neptune (all under 3 orb).

---

So for you also the true Lilith is more impactful?
I think Lilith-opposite-Sun and Lilith -trine-PLuto is pretty strong.

Lilith is the Dark Moon, so still a lunar symbol and as such there is a polarity with the Sun (though in different way than the Moon, if Lilith is something, than it is NOT yielding. lol)

And LilithPluto sounds intense, in a smooth way here, with the trine.

posted October 13, 2012 08:17 AM            

"So, my 7th is Cancer, and in my 4th I have Taurus"
So Taurus is your secondary DESC-sign and of course it is still primary 4th house relating to IC. Of course that simply extends on and describes the fact that your 7th house is in Cancer and lunar ruled, relating to fourth house.
Relationships simply MUST have a high degree of intimacy for you (Cancer on the cusp). And the house relating to intimacy is the 4th, in your case Taurus there, so that is how intimace would manifest, in taurus way.

"My DC widely conjuncts his IC (8 degree orb). I wonder if this adds to the inresistable connection we feel for eachother."
I wouldn´t count it as an interaspect, but it is a symbolic match, so it might add to that.
Though more intimate than irresistible, unless this intimacy is irresistible to you.

" I can look at a man and know if they are Taurus by the instant chemistry I feel with them. They have often broken my heart too with unrequited love."
That would be Aries for me. Moth to flame. Me moth- them flame. lol
Well, Aries is on my IC and filling my 4th house (from 5 Aries to 1 Taurus actually). And it is also my secondary 8th house.
I am just defenceless to their charm, and like you I can usually spot them a mile against the wind. lol
It`s the one in a group that makes my heart go pitter-patter in an instant!

posted October 13, 2012 02:22 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
CRCRINCON,

"So, my 7th is Cancer, and in my 4th I have Taurus"
So Taurus is your secondary DESC-sign and of course it is still primary 4th house relating to IC. Of course that simply extends on and describes the fact that your 7th house is in Cancer and lunar ruled, relating to fourth house.
Relationships simply MUST have a high degree of intimacy for you (Cancer on the cusp). And the house relating to intimacy is the 4th, in your case Taurus there, so that is how intimace would manifest, in taurus way.

"My DC widely conjuncts his IC (8 degree orb). I wonder if this adds to the inresistable connection we feel for eachother."
I wouldn´t count it as an interaspect, but it is a symbolic match, so it might add to that.
Though more intimate than irresistible, unless this intimacy is irresistible to you.

" I can look at a man and know if they are Taurus by the instant chemistry I feel with them. They have often broken my heart too with unrequited love."
That would be Aries for me. Moth to flame. Me moth- them flame. lol
Well, Aries is on my IC and filling my 4th house (from 5 Aries to 1 Taurus actually). And it is also my secondary 8th house.
I am just defenceless to their charm, and like you I can usually spot them a mile against the wind. lol
It`s the one in a group that makes my heart go pitter-patter in an instant!

---

You are quite correct! And in fact intimacy is irresistible for me in a very Taurus way...His smell, the touch and feel of his skin, intimidate kisses are both close and irresistible for me...Okay I'll stop there, lol, but you get the picture! Hehe.

Hmmm, so if I flip it, let me make sure I am doing this correctly. Would you mind helping me?? So how would it work for my husband? Let's see, he has Uranus and Pluto in 7th Libra. His 11th is where Aquarius (Uranus) is and that makes it his secondary 7th? And my moon actually falls in his 11th, making it one of the reasons why he is probably attracted to me?? He also has Pluto and that makes his secondary 7th also related his his 8th where Scorpio is. He has nothing in there and I don't have anything in their either, BUT I have an 8th house Sun and Venus there giving me quite Plutonian way of dealing wit things. ??? I have no idea if that made any sense. lol.

And actually I have been trying to figure out something else for a while, I wonder if you can help with this...My husbands AC is at 1 degree Aries due to his 2:02 am birth time. I often contend that he was born even 4 minutes earlier which would put his ASC at 29 degree Pisces and this seems to fit his AC so much better! He has a very gentle nature and that Aries AS doesn't fit him and he even agrees. But it also explains why he has been attracted to quite a few Virgo and Pisces. His parents are also both Pisces too. So even if I'm wrong and his AS IS really at 1 degree would the Virgo on his DC still hold power for him in attracting the Virgo/Pisces???

I really appreciate this dialogue.

posted October 14, 2012 09:01 AM            

"Let's see, he has Uranus and Pluto in 7th Libra. His 11th is where Aquarius (Uranus) is and that makes it his secondary 7th?"
No. You base that on the SIGN of the 7th house cusp or DESC, not the planets in there (though the fact that Uranus and Pluto is in the house, give him an attraction to Aquarius and Scorpio or Uranian and Plutonic women or relationships).

Anyway, his 7th house is in Libra, right
Libra is already the natural ruler of the 7th house, so it is both primary and secondary 7th house, and the aspects of Venus will be paramount.

In a different example:
Let`s say a guy has Taurus on the 7th house cusp. Now Taurus is related to the 2nd house, thus his 2nd houe would become the secondary 7th house for the guy with Taurus on the DESC.

In my case Gemini in 7th house - Gmeini relates to 3rd house - so 3rd house is my secondary 7th house.

It exemplies the fact that for a Gemini DESC communication is paramount, and thus the house that is related to communication (3rd house) becomes so important.

"And my moon actually falls in his 11th, making it one of the reasons why he is probably attracted to me?"
Yes, but not because it is his secondary DESC, but because he has Uranus in his 7th house.

"He has a very gentle nature and that Aries AS doesn't fit him Aries ASC is aggresive, I have known quite many gentle Aries ASCs, it pretty much depends on the rest of the chart as well, especially the placement of Mars.

An Aries ASC with Mars in Aries conjunct Uranus and square Pluto, actually might be more on the aggressive side.
But if that said Mars is in Libra conjunct Moon and Neptune, you suddenly have a very gentle person in front of you.

"Yes, but not every and he even agrees. But it also explains why he has been attracted to quite a few Virgo and Pisces."
That could be due to a Pisces ASC,y es.
Or because mercury and Neptune are in relationship houses. Or the rulers of relationship houses are in strong aspects with Mercury and Neptune or in Virgo and Pisces. You always have to check the whole chart.

Also a Pisces-ASC (I know some) with Neptune in Sagittarius and intercepted Aries and Mars conjunct Jupiter, or even Mars in ARies might not be as gentle as you would expect.
Actually I met a few Pisces ASC, and the one thing that stood out to me was that they were like chameleons, this ASC sign can mask as ANY sign. They even have been pegged for Leo ASC! Can you imagine that?
LOL
I guess it isone of these ASC-sign that is very strongly modified by the ruling planets and aspects. And of course very often Pisces ASC have Aries intercepted.

" So even if I'm wrong and his AS IS really at 1 degree would the Virgo on his DC still hold power for him in attracting the Virgo/Pisces???"
No, at least not because Virgo is so close to the DESC. But as I said there might be other configurations pointing to that.
But in a nutshell an 1 degree Aries-ASC is in Aries, not in Pisces.

"I really appreciate this dialogue."
Ditto.

posted October 15, 2012 02:14 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
[B

No. You base that on the SIGN of the 7th house cusp or DESC, not the planets in there (though the fact that Uranus and Pluto is in the house, give him an attraction to Aquarius and Scorpio or Uranian and Plutonic women or relationships).

And I have Sun and Venus in the 8th and do attract things to me of a very Scorpio nature.

Anyway, his 7th house is in Libra, right
Libra is already the natural ruler of the 7th house, so it is both primary and secondary 7th house, and the aspects of Venus will be paramount.

SO, aspects I make to his venus then act in a manner that relates to the 7th. Hmmm, that is new info for and of course makes sense..and it would also be this this with his Moon in Taurus since Taurus is also ruled by venus.

In a different example:
Let`s say a guy has Taurus on the 7th house cusp. Now Taurus is related to the 2nd house, thus his 2nd houe would become the secondary 7th house for the guy with Taurus on the DESC.

Yes, makes sense.

In my case Gemini in 7th house - Gmeini relates to 3rd house - so 3rd house is my secondary 7th house. It exemplies the fact that for a Gemini DESC communication is paramount, and thus the house that is related to communication (3rd house) becomes so important.

Got it!

"And my moon actually falls in his 11th, making it one of the reasons why he is probably attracted to me?"
Yes, but not because it is his secondary DESC, but because he has Uranus in his 7th house.

"He has a very gentle nature and that Aries AS doesn't fit him Aries ASC is aggresive, I have known quite many gentle Aries ASCs, it pretty much depends on the rest of the chart as well, especially the placement of Mars.

An Aries ASC with Mars in Aries conjunct Uranus and square Pluto, actually might be more on the aggressive side.
But if that said Mars is in Libra conjunct Moon and Neptune, you suddenly have a very gentle person in front of you.

He has Mars in Aries, Jupiter in Aries in the 1st. So he has a lot of Aries in his Chart.

That could be due to a Pisces ASC,y es.
Or because mercury and Neptune are in relationship houses. Or the rulers of relationship houses are in strong aspects with Mercury and Neptune or in Virgo and Pisces. You always have to check the whole chart.

Yes, of course. And he has Sun, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, and ASC all in aspect to Neptune! So that explains a lot! He has no Virgo in his chart except for some asteroids. But you have helped me understand more by nature of all that Neptune he has!

Also a Pisces-ASC (I know some) with Neptune in Sagittarius and intercepted Aries and Mars conjunct Jupiter, or even Mars in ARies might not be as gentle as you would expect.
Actually I met a few Pisces ASC, and the one thing that stood out to me was that they were like chameleons, this ASC sign can mask as ANY sign. They even have been pegged for Leo ASC! Can you imagine that?
LOL

Makes sense!

I guess it isone of these ASC-sign that is very strongly modified by the ruling planets and aspects. And of course very often Pisces ASC have Aries intercepted.

" So even if I'm wrong and his AS IS really at 1 degree would the Virgo on his DC still hold power for him in attracting the Virgo/Pisces???"
No, at least not because Virgo is so close to the DESC. But as I said there might be other configurations pointing to that.
But in a nutshell an 1 degree Aries-ASC is in Aries, not in Pisces.

Right, but I am thinking in terms of an evolutionary nature. So like reincarnation. Last lifetime he had more Pisces in his chart and now is being required to make more of a strong assertive presense possibly. I've read about the ASC being what you had as life lessons in the last life time.

I love talking about astrology...

[/B]

---