posted February 25, 2013 01:46 PM              

Anyway, as I said the Juno-aspects are very disappointing in this synastry:

geo:
----
his Juno quinkunx my Sun and Mercury

my Juno contraparallel his Mars
my Moon contraparallel his Mars

Well, actually natally I have Juno p Moon p Uranus cp Pluto (though the Juno cp Pluto is 1.3), but the others are out of orb for his Mars

helio:
------
now it is getting DISASTROUS
#
his Juno conjunct my Saturn and squares my Juno

I have a transdimensional Juno-Saturn aspect.
in geo it is Juno trine Saturn, in helio Juno square Saturn; both aspects are close to exactness.

Of course it is not an easy natal configuration.

The Juno-Uranus-Moon-Pluto one vs the Juno-Saturn one.
Well, I am certanly no swinger, I don´t cheat; once I am committed, I take this VERY seriously.
However to get me to actually make a choice and commit, is almost a Herculaneum task.

As for the Saturn-Juno aspect; well I guess with Juno-Pluto (even if it is wide), I do have some strong sexual urges, but I can be very rigid and suppress and control them, often to my own detriment, I think.

I guess that is where the Saturn-Juno-comes in. As I take it all so serious, I have my defenses really up high. And it is really not easy to get close to me. I know that. And I am working on myself int his regard, but it is not easy (speaking traditionally, Saturn in Cancer in 8th quinkunx Moon in Aqua in 2nd doesn`t help either).

PUtting all that aside, I suddenly remembered the magi zodiac 7 chart (the septiles) and how they mentioned it on their site to explain something about William and Kate, I think.
So I looked it up, and was quite stunned about the pattern I found.

The Pattern with Juno goes like this:

I have Mars biseptile Juno (1.0)-
he has Venus biseptile Chiron (0.8)

And these two biseptiles align with each other:

my Mars septile his Venus 0.6
my Juno septile his Venus 0.3
my Mars triseptile his Chiron 0.4
my Juno septile his Chiron 1.2

I read on their site that they consider the septile series aspect as neutral and only deriving their meaning from the symbolism of the planets.
Well in this instance, it seems quite spread, me contributing the sexual and him the romantic planets. Talk about a role-reversal.

As a matter of fact my Venus is biseptile Chiron in my geo as well (1.0), but itdoesn`t aspect his chart.

The other pattern has nothing to do with Juno, but I have a tight septile pattern of
Sun conjunct Mercury
Sun septile Moon
Moon septile Mercury

and synastrically (using 3 degree orb):
my Sun and Mercury conjunct his Sun and MOon
my Moon septile his Sun (1.1)
my Moon septile his Moon (3.0 - well too wide for my taste, but they list this orb for septiles)
my Sun biseptile his Mars (2.0)
my Mercury biseptile his Mars (1.1)
my MOon triseptile his Mars (1.7)
my Sun biseptile his Jupiter (2.9)
my Mercury biseptile his Jupiter (2.0)
my Moon triseptile his Jupiter (2.6)

I find it interesting that his Moon is conjunct my Sun, and my Moon is septile his Sun - and both aspects are aligned with each other in the 7th chart.

posted February 25, 2013 02:05 PM              

A very close friend of mine has been with her soulmate for 7 years, and they are still so in love, and as a matter of fact a lot of healing took place of previous relationship wounds.

But they didn´t have THAT strong romantic linkages; at least not with Chiron (though Chiron-VEsta permeates their synastry)

However I just checked their 7th charts, and it turns out they have:

posted February 26, 2013 02:10 PM              

the green lines are the natal aspects; the purple lines the interaspects.

Looks almost like a fortress, doesn`t it?
A grand sextile. Just that this here is a Grand septile of course, with triseptiles at the base, with three septiles closing the "half-cycle".
http://www.aztro1.com/education/planetary_geometry.htm

The orbs are quite tight, too:

the positions in the zodiac 7 chart are:

my Mars: 39.1
my Juno: 39.9

posted March 04, 2013 10:08 AM            

No experience with the zodiac 7 (yet).

But to stay with the sexual zodiac 'normal' ,..

Not that bad.

Geo-dec;

Juno-Mars
Moon-Mars (I remember reading somewhere that the Magi consider a Mars-Moon *linkage* as a verry hot one)

Helio-long;

a Super sexual linkage (= 2 sexual clashes)
- A juno/juno square
- A Pluto/Venus square
(tight orbs both)

quote:

---

Super Sexual Linkage (2 Sexual Clashes found in the four dimensions of a CAC):
Super-hot sexual linkage. Will burn out inevitably if either of the Clashes is Mars-Pluto. Will burn out after marriage if either of the Clashes is with Juno. Could also be created by Sexual Planetary Geometry with two or more clash angles.

---

And to not forget ofcourse that strong *YOD* .. with tight orb in which a Pluto/Venus quincunx (lifelong sexual linkage).

In Helio-lat;

His Mars contra-latitude your Venus (lifelong sex linkage also)

**

quote:

---

Juno Sexual Linkage: Linkages formed between Juno a Sexual Planet (Venus, Mars or Pluto) or between Juno and a Romance Planet (Venus, Neptune or Chiron) in a CAC. A Juno Sexual Linkage is perhaps more likely than any other sexual linkage to compel a couple to act on their attraction. Juno Sexual Linkages always burn out if a couple marries. See Sexuality in Magi Astrology.

---

posted March 05, 2013 05:01 AM              

cool you replied!

(I was afraid I was only entertaining myself :laughing

I have been doing quite a lot of reading on the site you linked. Well, I have been doing some years ago as well. As I said, Magi and me have a love-hate-relationship (I wonder if I have a Mars-Chiron-clash with them. LOL)

There are several things that I don´t agree with.
however, I can see several other things as quite fitting, though usually with a "twist".

For example I see the importance of Chiron and also how heartwarming harmonious Chiron-aspects can feel. For myself I have found that one reason may be that Chiron represents quite a vulnerability, which can result in extremely different experiences.
A Venus-trine to chiron or Neptune-Chiron or even Jupiter-chiron can be such a heartfelt warm appreciative feeling. Like being understood for the first time in life, and being unconditionally loved and appreciated just because you are like you are. Wonderful.
However the clashes to Chiron can be as damaging and hurtful as the harmonious aspects can be lovely and deep (obviously I am rather talking about clashes to Mars, Saturn, Pluto etc.)

It might be a bit of different understhanding than what the Magi may have in mind,b ut I can see the points of convergence.

"No experience with the zodiac 7 (yet)."
Well, they said in their glossary that it is 30% stronger than the normal zodiac.
While I wouldn´t be convinced of that, I myself have found the 7th harmonic or septile series aspects to be highly intriguing and interesting.
I guess though it might be because I have a strong 7th harmonic pattern in my natal, with Sun conjunct Mercury and both being septile Moon, which would make the placement on about 8 Aries VERY important, as it would biseptile my Sun and Mercury and septile my Moon. And of course on top of that 8 Aries makes trines to my Mars and Neptune.

As I just found out I additionally have a pretty exact biseptile between Mars and Juno. Never really realized that before.
The guy´s Venus is septile both my Mars and my Juno, thus falling on the exact midpoint of that biseptile.
Additionally it is also my Moon/Venus-midpoint (though my Moon and Venus are not in a 7th harmonic pattern, but in a 9th harmonic pattern, as they are novile with an orb of 0°58).
Also, this is the point of my Jupiter/Neptune and Jupiter-Node-midpoint as well - and those are in a 4th harmonic pattern as they are square, and his Venus is semisquare to both.

Talking about symmetry in the chart, thus, his Venus becomes a focal point for "picking up" my mars/Juno, Moon/Venus, Jupiter/Neptune and Jupiter/Node-midpoint.
Well, that is not strictly Magi astrology, but I find the symmetry quite interesting.

Anyway back on topic, I DO pay quite some attention to the 7th harmonic series, maybe because of my own resonance with it.
but I was really stunned about the symmetry in the septile-series aspects (Magi zodiac 7) in our CAC, as well because of the nature of the planets, but also because the aspects are so tight.

Also of course it made me giggle a little to see that while I have a Mars-Juno-biseptile natally, he has a Venus-Chiron-biseptile natally. Giving us a 7th pattern of three sexual planets and Chiron. lol

Well, I also found it interesting to find the Venus-Chiron linkage in the 7th chart of my friends.
They also have a Venus-Neptune linkage in the 7th helio.
They are so in love and have been for many years, and are so obviously soulmates, but I don´t find their CAC too conclusive as to this (they have a lot of nice things going on there including Sun-Chiron-linkages, but only one meagre Venus-Neptune-trine as romance linkage! Though it is part of a GT with his Venus linking to her Jupiter-Neptune-trine; oh and of course a Cupid linkage of his Venus quinkunx her Sun).

" consider a Mars-Moon *linkage* as a verry hot one)"
Yes, you are right. I remember having read something like it. That it is not a sexual linkage, but helps the attraction quite a bit.
Interestingly his Mars is synchronized with my Moon and Juno, both. Not sure if Uranus is still in it.

" Super sexual linkage (= 2 sexual clashes)
- A juno/juno square
- A Pluto/Venus square
(tight orbs both)"

Oh I thought they had to be part of the same geometry. And two Juno´s count?

"Will burn out after marriage if either of the Clashes is with Juno. "
What is your take on Juno? Have you observed that it burns out faster than other aspects? (I mean sexual desire usually fades a bit in a long relationship anyway)

Personally I haven´t seen this, but who knows?
What I can see though is how Juno is very strong in terms of passion and sexual attraction.
Not sure about the infidelity and cheating scenario though.

"d to not forget ofcourse that strong *YOD* .. with tight orb in which a Pluto/Venus quincunx (lifelong sexual linkage)."
Yes, a sexual Dragon. Probably a bit of a neurotic obsessive sexual Dragon as his SAPPHO is conjunct his Venus and my SAPPHO is very loosely part of that pattern as well. Just out of Magi orbs, so it would not count technically.

Speaking about SAPPHO another very intriguing asteroid imo. While I do not see it as bleak as they make it out to be, I also have experienced it to be very very passionate, often connected to creative passions, but passionate nevertheless. And yes, it can get a bit obsessive, maybe even neurotic, but not so sure about that.
I also read several accounts where it apparently was a good timer for sexual activity. lol

Funnily enough in our first meeting chart Sun is conjunct Sappho in Gemini. Our first encounter took place in a creative environment.

posted March 05, 2013 12:53 PM              

geo
------

his CHIRON trine my VENUS 3.5 (part of geometry)
his CHIRON quinkunx my NEPTUNE 0.3
his CHIRON quinkunx my PLUTO 0.6

my CHIRON trine his NEPTUNE 0.4

my CHIRON parallel his JUPITER 0.2
my CHIRON parallel his PLUTO 1.2

heliocentric
-------------
his CHIRON quinkunx my NEPTUNE 2.6

his CHIRON latitude my VENUS 0.3
his CHIRON latitude my JUPITER 0.3
his CHIRON contralatitude my NEPTUNE 0.0

my CHIRON trine his NEPTUNE 2.4

my CHIRON latitude his JUPITER 0.3

12 Cinderella linkages - well IThought that were quite a few, but maybe it is average, taking into consideration we look at four dimensions?
(though in my own synastries, I haven`t had as many before).

And then, yes, I know, the Chiron-Neptune is a generational aspect and probably will always or often appear transdimensionally due to Neptune moving so slowly, but still, having four of these really surprised me.

Not sure how much weight to give those though, given the generational nature.

posted March 06, 2013 06:59 AM            

***For example I see the importance of Chiron and also how heartwarming harmonious Chiron-aspects can feel. For myself I have found that one reason may be that Chiron represents quite a vulnerability, which can result in extremely different experiences.
A Venus-trine to chiron or Neptune-Chiron or even Jupiter-chiron can be such a heartfelt warm appreciative feeling. Like being understood for the first time in life, and being unconditionally loved and appreciated just because you are like you are. Wonderful.***

Well said!

***Well, they said in their glossary that it is 30% stronger than the normal zodiac.
While I wouldn´t be convinced of that, I myself have found the 7th harmonic or septile series aspects to be highly intriguing and interesting.
I guess though it might be because I have a strong 7th harmonic pattern in my natal, with Sun conjunct Mercury and both being septile Moon, which would make the placement on about 8 Aries VERY important, as it would biseptile my Sun and Mercury and septile my Moon. And of course on top of that 8 Aries makes trines to my Mars and Neptune.
ETC. ETC. ***

A lack of knowlegde regarding zodiac 7 me, that's what I know for sure now, I'll keep this in mind..

***Well, I also found it interesting to find the Venus-Chiron linkage in the 7th chart of my friends.
They also have a Venus-Neptune linkage in the 7th helio.
They are so in love and have been for many years, and are so obviously soulmates, but I don´t find their CAC too conclusive as to this (they have a lot of nice things going on there including Sun-Chiron-linkages, but only one meagre Venus-Neptune-trine as romance linkage! Though it is part of a GT with his Venus linking to her Jupiter-Neptune-trine; oh and of course a Cupid linkage of his Venus quinkunx her Sun).***

This could be an interesting focus, for another time.

***Interestingly his Mars is synchronized with my Moon and Juno, both. Not sure if Uranus is still in it.***

A threesome, ofcourse; makes it even more intense. Ow wait.. You have a strong Moon/Uranus/Pluto synchronization, so in this case you even can't exclude Pluto.
AND.. to not forget his obsessive Sappho!
In such extraordinary cases orb-widening can only be allowed.

***Oh I thought they had to be part of the same geometry. And two Juno´s count?***

They count yes.. In case part of the same geometry (and Juno incl.), it wouldn't be called a "Super sexual Linkage" but (from helena's glossary);

quote:

---

ULTIMATE Super Sexual Linkage: Sexual Clash geometry including Juno and two other Sexual Planets

---

btw, a Juno/Venus linkage is what they call "Ultimate sexual linkage"
(for a clear distinction)

***"Will burn out after marriage if either of the Clashes is with Juno. "
What is your take on Juno? Have you observed that it burns out faster than other aspects? (I mean sexual desire usually fades a bit in a long relationship anyway)***

Not exactly yet. But I keep an eye on a recent marriage.. both only have strong Juno-linkages, not one lifelong sexual linkage. A weird thing is that on their marriage party (I was invited with ex, at that time still together we) he openly flirted with me and said to me (in front of ex yes): "you're so soo great.. if I were 10 years younger it would be *you* that I wanted, for sure" ... that sounded really WEIRD & worrisome to me.

***What I can see though is how Juno is very strong in terms of passion and sexual attraction***

For sure, that's what I clearly observed! And not only in my own experience.. (with juno/venus conjunction on top)

***"d to not forget ofcourse that strong *YOD* .. with tight orb in which a Pluto/Venus quincunx (lifelong sexual linkage)."
Yes, a sexual Dragon.***

Yesss those powerful, irresistible, insatiable dragon points!

***Funnily enough in our first meeting chart Sun is conjunct Sappho in Gemini. Our first encounter took place in a creative environment.***

posted March 06, 2013 07:22 AM            

In ONE word; *INCREDIBLE* !

That's why I'm not worried AT-ALL about that heart-break clash in helio-long (his Saturn)
EDIT; hm.. his Saturn is doing a lot there is what I see now..

.. and that's why I'm verry interested in how this connection will develop.. very!

posted March 07, 2013 07:35 AM              

it`s my helio T-square of Sun-Mercury-Jupiter that tends to get carried away easily, if something spikes my interest.

"You have a strong Moon/Uranus/Pluto synchronization, so in this case you even can't exclude Pluto."
Yes, and Juno is kind of tied to it as well (the orb to Pluto may be a tad wide, but it is in orb to Moon/Uranus).

Well, with Uranus in aspect to both, Juno and Pluto, I probably qualify as a "wanderer" from Helena`s site.
However, I don´t cheat. Fidelity is high on my priority list (but then I also have Vesta parallel Sun and in helio I have Vesta contralatitude Neptune and latitude Jupiter, and the Vesta/Jupiter is pretty close.

I do notice the Uranus/Pluto/Moon/Juno-thing though, in a certain reluctance to commitment (cause once committed, I feel like this is forever, no way out).
A certain feeling of "emotional restelessness" in a way.

"AND.. to not forget his obsessive Sappho!"
Yeah, he is probably so obsesses with me, with his Sappho being on my Juno and Pluto and Moon.
Though of course my Sappho is conjunct his Pluto.

"he openly flirted with me and said to me (in front of ex yes): "you're so soo great.. if I were 10 years younger it would be *you* that I wanted, for sure" ... "
Eek. That is really weird and worrisome and outrageous. He flirted on his own wedding party with someone else? And you were in a relationship as well!
Even having a natal aspect of Uranus and Juno and Pluto myself, I find that so inappropriate and wrong, I can`t even find words to express.

"with juno/venus conjunction on top)"
Yes, can vouch for this.

I had a quick glance at the CAC of said guy with his exgirlfriend (they have been together for 7 years - long distance relationship though).

Not one Romantic Superlinkage
(in the 7th chart they had planetary geometry with Chiron, pretty sexual again: her Mars in aspect to his Venus and Chiron)

the only Chiron linkage was his Chiron contraparallel her Jupiter (a really nice one).

They had 2 Heartbreak clashes (she was Saturn in both)
And they had 3 Nuclear clashes (she was Saturn twice, he was Saturn once) I think he captivated her Venus.

So the question is what DID they haveß

Well for example they had
her Venus quinkunx his Juno
his Chiron quinkunx her Juno.

lol

I find it funny about the Saturn clashes, especially the Nuclear and Heartbreak ones.
I see CAC´s with these so often, even in relationships that work out beautifully over a long period of time, sometimes to the death.
Even the Newman CAC had one or even two Heartbreak clashes.

But there seems to be a sonic wall as to how many of these clashes a couple can cope with.
And it seems to be of vital importance to have some RSL´s, I mean some really good ones, including Cinderella linkages.

"those powerful, irresistible, insatiable dragon points!"
tell me about it.

I guess it might be more impactful for me, as he might be rather used to that energy, at least being around people my age that have their Pluto somewhere near. Funnily his ex-gf´s Pluto also linked to his helio Venus-Mars-quinkunx; just making a Mystical triangle instead of a Yod.

"The first meeting chart, was there an enhanced Sun also that day? "
Oh yes THAT chart. Of course I didn´t pick an easy one. lol

As a matter of fact there had been a Sun-Saturn-square peeking the day before. Of course.

At the moment we met there was a Mystical triangle of
Moon conjunct Pluto - Moon and Pluto were quinkunx Sun and trine Saturn.

Well the Sun quinkunx Pluto might be considered as an enhancement, but surely not a pure one, and quinkunxes are always a bit shady in that regard.

anyway that very day there was also:

Sun on 20.5 N parallel Mars on 20.0 N

Venus on 19.0 N was technically out of orb for being parallel Venus, but was definitely parallel Mars, so maybe there was a minor influence of that as well.

however, the one I liked most was :

Sun contraparallel Jupiter

heliocentric
-------------

Jupiter on 0.0 S latitude Neptune on 0.3 S
And of course these were lat/contra the Earth/Moon-complex.

A triple synchronisation of Earth-Jupiter-Neptune. And the Earth-Jupiter one was transdimensional.

posted March 07, 2013 07:59 AM              

I read on Helena`s site in the compendium this:

"Hi Everyone,

All four dimensions of Magi Astrology are equally important- there is no ranking order. The key to understanding the 4 dimensions is that they are DIFFERENT. Since the Magi Society has not published the exact differences between geo and helio, I will be limited in what I can explain. Here is what I can say: Geo and helio aspects affect different realms of life. Depending on what the chart or CAC represents, geo and helio dimensions may take different precedence. In romantic relationships, I feel that the geo CAC is more deeply felt by the couple than the helio CAC.

Isabelle, in your particular situation (I won’t go into all the details), a helio clash isn’t as bad as a geo clash for several reasons, one of which is that you and your Soulmate are not in the public eye.

For celebrities such as Jude Law and Sienna Miller, a helio clash can be as bad as a geo clash, or worse."

and

" Clarification from Gordana: Chiron-Venus linkages
This references my post 8/28/10: Question from Gordana: Chiron-Venus linkages
1.Concerning Chiron-Venus clash as well enhancement in one CAC but in different dimensions, I’ve actually came across all sorts of combinations, but lets take the e.g. Chiron-Venus clash in geo while enhancement in helio (there was actual case when both combinations were also part of Romantic Mystical Triangles);
2.The reason for my first Chiron-Venus question is because I have natal Chiron-Venus contra-parallel in declinations, so the slow moving Chiron of many guys of several generations makes (contra)-parallels to my Venus. WOW if I only knew there is such love potential in store for me (just kidding).
3.I must add one more comment – I am actually testing some Magi Astrology postulates here on Facebook and I must admit it works.
+ Comment from Jürgen: I wonder who is the most affective part, the one with the Venus or the one with Chiron, in my experience is the one with Chiron...

Dear Gordana

Of the two possibilities, it would be more favorable to have the Chiron-Venus enhancement in geo and the clash in helio. In any case, if the Chiron-Venus clash is part of a Mystical Triangle, the rule of enhancement dominance might help to make the clash more favorable."

and

" Question from Roxanne: Differences between Geo & Helio Dimensions in CAC’s
Thank you for your reply. Let me see if I understand what you'r saying. If we're analyzing the helio CAC of Jane & Joe Blow of Anytown, USA, the clashes and presumably the RSLs therein would have far less of an impact on their relationship than those in the geo CAC. So a Nuclear Clash would be far less unfavorable, and a Magical Chiron/Venus Linkage would be much less favorable.

However, if the CAC were that of a world-famous actress and her prominent lover, the clashes and linkages in the helio CAC would be of paramount significance. This is of interest to me because I'm examining just such a helio CAC for a globally-known star and her lover, who is well-known in entertainment circles. Their geo CAC is terrific, with the Chi/Ven linkage, seven very powerful RSLs and Sexual Planetary Geometry. In their helio CAC there are even more RSLs, a Cinderella Grand Trine, plus four additional Sexual Aspects and virtually no clashes. Could the helio CAC be considered to show that their relationship has additional depth and power, in light of their fame? Would it be more important in their lives than their geo CAC? Thanks again for helping us understand this issue.

Hi Roxanne,

I’m sorry that I can’t explain these differences in detail since this information is still unpublished by the Magi Society. I would not use the words, “far less impact” “far less unfavorable” or “much less favorable.” I would say this: Any couple more deeply feels geo linkages and clashes. Helio linkages and clashes are still very important, but may not as significant to the couple personally if the couple is not famous. Again to use your terminology, helio CAC’s would not indicate depth in a relationship, but could indicate power in a relationship."
http://www.helenaastrologer.com/magi_lessonFBQandAs.htm

"EDIT; hm.. his Saturn is doing a lot there is what I see now.."
Yes, it does.

in geo:
his Saturn squares my Sun

in helio:
his Saturn quinkunx my Chiron, opposes my Jupiter and trines my Venus, and is thus part of very strong planetary geometry.

Like that Mystical triangle of his Saturn trine my Venus and quinkunx my Chiron.

I am much less Saturn, but still I saw:

geo:
my Saturn contraparallel his Venus
my Saturn contraparallel his Neptune

"but let's not forget the *exactness* + the more personal interaspects "
Yes, I think that is a very important point.

how did the Chiron-Neptune make itself felt for the two of you?

posted March 07, 2013 10:44 AM            

quote:

---

"he openly flirted with me and said to me (in front of ex yes): "you're so soo great.. if I were 10 years younger it would be *you* that I wanted, for sure" ... "
~ ~ ~ ~
Eek. That is really weird and worrisome and outrageous. He flirted on his own wedding party with someone else? And you were in a relationship as well!
Even having a natal aspect of Uranus and Juno and Pluto myself, I find that so inappropriate and wrong, I can`t even find words to express.

---

Yes, on his own wedding party.

Well, they (ex & him) were friends. So I got to know him because of ex. I had an immediate click with this man, something I rarely experience (we have the perfect Love mystical triangle *ahum* in our CAC).
This man led a very promiscuous life which began in the sixties. Many of his relationships ended because of threesome sex parties and all that stuff. I just feel there's still something of it in his nature..

An interesting thing here is, they (him and the woman he married) seem like the absolute *perfect couple* (for outsiders).
The only Chiron linkage they have in GEO is an *exact* stand-alone Chiron/Mercury parallel.
In HELIO they have a very tight & nice Chiron/Venus linkage.
Their great communication-level even made me jealous that nice intimate night with the four of us together (my partner's body is my 'property' and mine his' so plz do not think below the belt here! - Scorp-moon me) .. when I sort of asked the woman that night if this was the very first man in her life she could *really* talk to (I just felt it *was*)... she began to cry (confirmation).
I see that intimate night together (4 of us) as a deeper look into their Geo-stuff.
I saw them before (more surface) and they radiated such a *perfectness* together.. (Chiron/Venus helio)

The very striking thing in their Geo is a tight DW Juno/Mars quincunx. They openly (mainly *she*) talked about their very active sex-life, while I wasn't that curious about it.. they openly danced (that night in their living-room) a little bit *too* intimate.. and I felt pretty awkward watching it .. ex whispered to me; we're gone when they go too far .. (he ofcourse knew more about his friend than I)

In Magi a double linkage with the same 2 planets (in this case juno/mars quincunx) is called a *paired linkage* and equals no less than 4 linkages!

Ow also btw, their ONLY Saturn aspect in all 4 dimensions is a Chiron/Saturn conjunction in Helio. Striking!

This is about how I sort of distinguish Helio and Geo I guess.

posted March 08, 2013 02:35 AM              

is it "only" the appearance to the outside or has it signficance for the couple as well?
do they only experience it when interacting with other people as a couple?

*scratches head* I am officially confused now.

Well, I checked for the CAC of a friend and her exboyfriend. A torrid devastating affair,t hat left her pretty shattered,
he was emotionally and mentally abusive to her and it was one nasty breakup.

(to be fair, she probably broke his heart as well; not because she was trying to manipulate him, but simply because she did not really love him, and he retaliated with being manipulative and mean)

so naturally I was lookin for some Saturn-clashes.

in geo:
none!

however in helio:
her Saturn square his Uranus
her Saturn cp his Venus
her Saturn cp his Jupiter - Nuclear clash
her Saturn cp his Chiron - Heartbreak clash

es, on his own wedding party.

his Saturn quinkunx her Earth
his Saturn square her Jupiter - Nuclear clash
his Saturn cp her Jupiter - Nuclear clash

some of these were pretty tight; I definitely pay most attention to longitudinal aspects, which are under 1 degree, and latitude aspects which are under 0.2.

her Saturn cp his Jupiter: 0°09 (is that 0.1 or already 0.2 in magi terminology?)

her Saturn cp his Chiron: 0°09

his Saturn square her Jupiter: 0°49
his Saturn cp her Jupiter: 0°08

"Many of his relationships ended because of threesome sex parties and all that stuff."
Interesting. Does he have some Venus-Uranus, Mars-Uranus, Uranus-Juno or Juno-Sappho enhancements?

"(my partner's body is my 'property' and mine his' so plz do not think below the belt here! - Scorp-moon me)"
I didn´t even think into this direction! lol

"she began to cry (confirmation).
I see that intimate night together (4 of us) as a deeper look into their Geo-stuff.
I saw them before (more surface) and they radiated such a *perfec"
tness* together.. (Chiron/Venus helio)"
So would you say the helio represents what a couple "radiates"?

And is it "real" or just a "fake-aura" of a relationship?
Or is it only real if the geo confirms that?

In my example, with that helio Sexual Dragon, would that mean that if we are connecting in public it might seem like there was a sexual connection/ attraction to outsiders, but it might not *really* be there?

BTW I have a question concerning orbs.
his Mars is at 9.56 N
his Juptier is at 8.44 N
(so both are parallel for him natally - actually he has a Mars-Jupiter-ecclipse)

my Jupiter is at 8.28 S
my Chiron is at 8.33 N

While my Chiron and Jupitear are parallel his Jupiter, the orb to his Mars is too wide: 1°23 (my Chiron to his Mars)

Would the fact that my Chiron is parallel his Jupiter, and his Jupiter is parallel his Mars, pull my Chiron into a parallel with his mars, even though it might be a weakened aspect?

"The very striking thing in their Geo is a tight DW Juno/Mars quincunx."
how long have they been together?

"In Magi a double linkage with the same 2 planets (in this case juno/mars quincunx) is called a *paired linkage* and equals no less than 4 linkages!"
wow!
Does it have to be the same aspect as well, or could it also have been a Juno/mars quinkunx and trine?

"heir ONLY Saturn aspect in all 4 dimensions is a Chiron/Saturn conjunction in Helio. Striking!"
Definitely.
My CAC´s have so much Saturn all the time.

Question is who captivates whom in their relationship?

posted March 08, 2013 10:07 AM            

The only aspect that comes close here, is a Juno-Sappho trine in Helio of 4,10 orb (the square in geo 3,5)
Not even one enhancement between the sex-planets in all 4 dimensions.
(a venus-mars opp. in helio)

***Question is who captivates whom in their relationship?***

It's her Saturn conjunct his Chiron.
I just saw it also makes a trine to his Mercury.
But qua Saturn that's *IT*.
It's also her Chiron exactly trine his Venus.
And in geo also *her* Chiron exact parallel his Mercury.
So, the one and only touch of his Chiron is to her Saturn.. but that's what they call a Saturn-bond and not a Chiron-linkage.
Some power on him .. and although they DO seem like the perfect couple.. I get the feeling she's more in-love than him, also based on more things he said to me/us .. like 'well I DO love her, but....' (not really a personal attack on her, but for ex. a comparison with past loves or the fact that he doesn't feel *really* happy etc.)
But those are "only" (geo?)words .. and when you see them together.. it's pretty *GREAT!*
they're together for about 5 years now I guess.

Well unfortunately they haven't publiced any clear guidance on helio/geo yet so it mainly comes to our own research.
What I take for now; Geo *acts* and *does*, Helio *IS*.. so the latter more our essence, core-being leaving the material word behind.
I consider both AS-REAL..
So to take it to that dragon Yod.. + the strong Saturn there.. is the deeply felt attraction here related to some sort of *power* you feel he has?
It wouldn't surprise me if outsiders somewhere somehow take notice of it. But well, men like to have power and what I see in 90% of the cases, it's the man's Saturn when there's a heartbreak clash.

***BTW I have a question concerning orbs.
his Mars is at 9.56 N
his Juptier is at 8.44 N
(so both are parallel for him natally - actually he has a Mars-Jupiter-ecclipse)

my Jupiter is at 8.28 S
my Chiron is at 8.33 N***

ONE RSL here - Your Chiron, his Jupiter, his Mars. Your Chiron and Jupiter to his Mars would not technically count because only one interaspect may have that orb-widening.
The same 2 planets do not count (jupiter-jupiter-chiron) for an RSL.

***Does it have to be the same aspect as well, or could it also have been a Juno/mars quinkunx and trine?***

posted March 08, 2013 03:53 PM              

geocentric longitudes - his Chiron
-----------------------------------

Two sets of Mystical Triangles (though he already has one of his own)

Two sets of Yods

posted March 08, 2013 03:57 PM              

flying wing:

helio longitudes - my perspective
----------------------------------

This one was such a detailed pattern, hard to see anything.

Two sets of interlocking mystical triangles:

posted March 08, 2013 04:00 PM              

It is two locked arrowheads (found that on some article on their site) with my Venus as the focal point (poor me. lol)

And it also includes an "invincible fortress". He contributes Uranus and Pluto, which of course are generational planets. However given the tight orbs and the interconnectedness I still view it as probably significant.

posted March 08, 2013 04:03 PM              

geocentric:
------------

a) my Chiron parallel his Mars and Jupiter

b) his Pluto parallel my Chiron and contraparallly my Jupiter

heliocentric:
-------------

a) natally he has Chiron contralatitude Mars, and I have Venus contralatitude Neptune, and these overlay each other.

his Chiron parallel my Venus and contraparallel my Neptune
his Mars contraparallle my Venus and parallel my Neptune

looks sexually romantic. lol

posted March 09, 2013 06:43 AM              

I got carried away a little yesterday.

But I couldn`t figure the romance super linkages in my head with his geo Chiron being a focal point of so many Cinderella linkages (to my Venus, Neptune and Pluto) and being synchronized additionally with his own Mars-Jupiter-conjunction, his Mercury, my Neptune and my Jupite (and my Pallas).

And same goes for my helio Chiron, being synchronized to so many of my own planets.
semisextile Jupiter
square Venus
quinkunx Uranus
trine Mercury
sextile Pallas

And his Pluto filling the gap for completing some strong planetary geometry (neither the locked arrowheads nor the invincible fortress would exist without his PLuto or another planet at around 20 Libra).

Actually with the addition of my PALLAS his Pluto would also fill the gap to form a Grand Sextile. *sighs*

Yeah, carried away...

-----------------------------

"The only aspect that comes close here, is a Juno-Sappho trine in Helio of 4,10 orb (the square in geo 3,5)"
Well, if the square was part of major pg it might be valid. Though of course it is an activation angle instead of an enhancement.

"
(a venus-mars opp. in helio)"
This would count as a sexual aspect at least.
I read that they say any angle between sexual planets counts, though enhancements would be stronger. AND in case of Juno they count only the enhancement.
Unless they changed their opinion on this.

"It's her Saturn conjunct his Chiron.
I just saw it also makes a trine to his Mercury."
so a conjuncted trine, and technicall a Romance super linkage. I saw they do count Saturn as a permissable planet in the RSL if the Saturn aspect is a linkage.
However, it doesn`t look all that romantic of course.

I mean you can literally *FEEL* the differences between RSL`s depending on the planets forming them.

"But qua Saturn that's *IT*."
What does that mean`? Saturn square Saturn?

"It's also her Chiron exactly trine his Venus.
And in geo also *her* Chiron exact parallel his Mercury."
Seems it is mainly her Chiron being romanticized to or by him. However, judging from the list Helena posted, Chiron and Venus are so close to each other in terms of who feels the most attached, that the difference might be just gradual.
Maybe that is another reason for the beauty of a Venus-Chiron-linkage, that both people feel it with almost the same strength (Though I`d still say Chiron will feel more vulnerable, while Venus might feel it in a more sensual way).

BTW this is the list I was talking about:

"Chiron
Vesta**
Venus
Sappho**
Neptune
Mars
Sun
Moon
Pluto
Jupiter
Uranus
Pallas**
Mercury
Juno**
Ceres**
Saturn
Sedna**

Here is my reasoning for ranking the additional planets and asteroids as I have:

Ceres is selfish, impersonal and lacks compassion, so I put it just above Saturn.

Pallas is logical, not emotional, and I would rank it next to Mercury. Being more attached to plans than Mercury, Pallas could rank just above it.

Juno would likely fall near the bottom based upon Juno’s great allure and magnetism coupled with Juno’s fickle nature. Still, I think Juno may have more attachment to a relationship (at least temporarily) than Ceres.

Vesta is sweet and caring, loyal and true. The symbol of friendship and compatibility, I would rank it just after Chiron and even (just barely) above Venus.

Sappho I would place near the top, perhaps just below Venus, considering its obsessive and fearful nature.

Sedna, I feel certain, would be dead last, due to Sedna’s absolute lack of caring for anyone else. (BTW, these are planetary symbolisms, not a description of a person)"
http://www.magihelena.com/magi_lessonFBQandAs.htm

posted March 09, 2013 06:49 AM            

However, this doesn't mean it's always positive (when saturn involved there's suffering of some sort), but it IS powerful.

Take for example, the curies. In their Geo they have 2 interlocked mystical triangles in which cinderella's (also as an interaspect) but also her Saturn in a clash angle to his Jupiter and Chiron (nuclear and heartbreak). This reminded me a bit to your Helio-cac with the guy Ceri.

Another tight example that I have with my current one in HELIO;
His;
Pluto-Scorp (18)
Mars-Gem (19)
Juno-Sag (20)

Ok, the missing point for an "invincible fortress"?

Exactly; my Venus-Cancer (19)

My Juno-Leo (21,5) makes another kind of "fortress" (no name for this one) if we wipe his Mars.
Then we have;

- his semi-sextile Pluto-Scorp/Juno-Sag
- my semi-sextile Juno-Leo/Venus-Cancer

Yess, all sexual planets together.
Do I feel that?
Well no, I'm too old to for that. I've had my time I guess .. but what I *do* have is this immense urge to hug, kiss and touch him.. (that's my *proof* that it's *there* )
Or it's my Aqua-Mars prob. that isn't that.. (could also be)

posted March 09, 2013 06:53 AM            

**

posted March 09, 2013 07:56 AM              

"I get the feeling she's more in-love"
With her Chiron so much more invested, I am not surprised.

Quoting Helena`s site again, as I found it interesting what she said on that subject (who is more in love or attached?):

"How close the other person’s planet is to Chiron on the list above would be one way to help to quantify the difference in feelings of love.

Here are some things which help the astrologer to understand which person is more in love in a relationship:

Who contributes Chiron to more linkages or clashes (analysis of Chiron aspects)
Who is most captivated by the other person (analysis of Captivations)
Who has the most Chiron linkages to the ruling relationship chart
Who has the most captivations by the ruling relationship chart
Who is capable of loving more (analysis of natal charts)
Who is most emotionally needy or vulnerable (analysis of natal charts)
Who contributes which planets in Sexual Linkages"
http://www.magihelena.com/magi_lessonFBQandAs.htm

I guess their ruling relationship chart would be their marriage chart, while in my case it would be the first meeting chart. And they do emphasize the importance of (applying) transits to the first meeting chart.

"What I take for now; Geo *acts* and *does*, Helio *IS*.. so the latter more our essence, core-being leaving the material word behind.
I consider both AS-REAL.. "
Yes, I can see that. Since helio represents the Sun, I have always seen it as a "Spirit" chart, something that extends the material. I gues it could be called "essence" as well, maybe a better term even, as it is not so "esoteric".

The geocentric chart relates to Earth, and thus I have always seen it as the chart or level where things manifest or materialize.

"So to take it to that dragon Yod.. + the strong Saturn there.. is the deeply felt attraction here related to some sort of *power* you feel he has?"
Yes, I think he has.
As I said I am not easily acknowledging my feelings of desire or infatuation even, or falling in love. There is often a switch in my head that I can pull to "switch it off"; sometims with a lot of effort, but it works most of the time.
Just with him for some reason it doesn`t. He is always coming back to haunt me. I can`t really rationalize any of it away (the effect he has on me), and it is not fort he lack of trying! lol

But then again I have Juno parallel Uranus - what do you expect?
I also have Chiron latitude or contralatitude (do not remeber) Uranus in helio.
I like keeping everything on a nice potential level, keeping my options open. I guess in some twisted way you could say I am a comitmentphobe. Or rather dont´let myself get swayed by emotions easily. Well, course I find it exciting to have a crush on someone, but that is usually enough. Almost like playtime. lol
I am very selfsufficient in most respects, and very guarded emotionally, which is of course a problem. But I guess noone is perfect.

He on the other hand has a way to very easily slip under my defences. It is puzzling. And sometimes feel quite overwhelmed or overpowered (which is usually the time when I decide that it is just nothing, and start running again, as I am used to).

However, I found that theme in quite some synastries. Not all happy of course.

1st Richard Burton and Liz Taylor:
------------------------------------
not a happy couple yes, but I found it interesting how maybe a year before her death she said about him that he probably had been her soulmate and that if he were alive she would marry him again.

She has Venus-Uranus-conjunction - and they also form the Heartbreak clash, with his Saturn opposing her Chiron.

PUtting all other interpretations aside, maybe he had a control over her noone else had.

2. Warren Beatty - Anette Bening
---------------------------------
Well they have been married for over 20 years, and though we never know how happy hollywood couples really are, it is quite a long time.

He also has the Venus-Uranus-conjunction and was the quintessential commitmentphobe.
Her Saturn is exactly opposite his Chiron in helio.

3. my best friend and her husband have a transdimensional hearbreak - clash
He has the Mars-uranus-trine in helio and Chiron latitude Uranus.

Interestingly it is HIS Saturn that is squaring her Chiron. (so far it was more the partner of the Uranian person).

Well her Saturn also captures his Neptune in geo and is contraparallel his Venus.

They have been a couple for over 13 years now; it seems he is a little more in love with her than the other way round, but they are quite happy with each other.
They met in times where both experienced heartbreaking situations, and actually she hesitated long to get involved with him (he was her friend first), but his patience got rewarded in the end.
The most notable thing is how both live`s have changed since they met. She brought a lot of stability into his life and through interaction with he stopped "floating around" and got more purposeful in his life (which included stopping to drink so excessively as he had done at times). Curiously it seemed like he had just waited for someone to do that for him; he seems very happy.
And for her, well, she came from a very nasty breakup, and had been plagued by severe anxiety attacks. Those very quickly dissovled when they got together. He seems to have stabilized her emotionally quite a lot. They are leading quite a stable family life, and they seem to be content with it. They are partners in any kind of sense. I found that interesting.
Of course you never know when the heartbreak clash strikes.
But then again how long should we wait to call a relationship successful? What does that mean anyway?

4. Paul Newman and JOanne Woodward
they shared a heartbreak clash (well two) as well, with him being Saturn.

he was having a Chiron-Uranus-contralatitude in helio

Well, of course he was married when they met, and for quite some time they tried to keep a distance to each other, to not disturb his previous marriage, as they did not want to cheat; well he did not want to cheat, and she saw him as "forbidden" because of his previous commitment.

"ONE RSL here - Your Chiron, his Jupiter, his Mars."
'Thanks. Yes, that is what I thought.
How far can we extend the orb?

"As long as it's a *linkage* it counts."
Thanks.

Then we have a double linkage of Chiron and Neptune (quinkunx and trine) and of Sun and Venus (parallel).

posted March 09, 2013 09:13 AM            

"Qua" means something like "regarding".

Yea, I do have the ranking list in my mind (always when looking from a magi-perspective)..

**Who contributes Chiron to more linkages or clashes (analysis of Chiron aspects)
Who is most captivated by the other person (analysis of Captivations)
Who has the most Chiron linkages to the ruling relationship chart
Who has the most captivations by the ruling relationship chart
Who is capable of loving more (analysis of natal charts)
Who is most emotionally needy or vulnerable (analysis of natal charts)
Who contributes which planets in Sexual Linkages" http://www.magihelena.com/magi_lessonFBQandAs.htm**

Indeed something to remind..

***What I take for now; Geo *acts* and *does*, Helio *IS*.. so the latter more our essence, core-being leaving the material word behind.
I consider both AS-REAL.. "
Yes, I can see that. Since helio represents the Sun, I have always seen it as a "Spirit" chart, something that extends the material. I gues it could be called "essence" as well, maybe a better term even, as it is not so "esoteric".***

Yes.
"Essence" is an accessible term for *everyone*.

**Well, course I find it exciting to have a crush on someone, but that is usually enough. Almost like playtime. lol**

My Aqua-Mars (geo-helio) and in the geo-progression trine uranus for almost a lifetime (by retro-position) ..now verrry close applying, knows exactly what you mean.
The natal helio Mars-Uranus trine is always there. (chiron-Uranus opp. also involved in natal/progress).
SPACE or I die!

**1st Richard Burton and Liz Taylor:
not a happy couple yes, but I found it interesting how maybe a year before her death she said about him that he probably had been her soulmate and that if he were alive she would marry him again.**

It may sound even better than that. She slept till her death with his last letter under her pillow. In that letter he sort of admitted that *she* has always been *IT* to him and he wrote it very shortly before his death.

**But then again how long should we wait to call a relationship successful? What does that mean anyway?**

Exactly.

**"ONE RSL here - Your Chiron, his Jupiter, his Mars."
'Thanks. Yes, that is what I thought.
How far can we extend the orb?**

Plus 0,24 in dec. around that.

posted March 09, 2013 05:56 PM              

""Essence" is an accessible term for *everyone*."
Exactly.

"My Aqua-Mars (geo-helio) and in the geo-progression trine uranus for almost a lifetime (by retro-position) ..now verrry close applying, knows exactly what you me"
LOL

which reminds me that I haven`t delved into progressions "Magi-style" yet.

I see though that my progressed helio Venus is on 20 Pisces right now. And thus applying to a conjunction with helio Jupiter (natal) on 22 Pisces, and trine helio Mars on 23 Scorpio.

pr helio Mars is applying to a trine to Juno (2 degrees).
and pr geo Juno is applying to a trine to natal Mars.

and pr geo Mars is slowly applying to a conjunction with my natal Venus. It is still a bit over 3 degrees away, but I am already intrigued. lol
(pr Mars is also applying to a parallel with natal Venus at 0.2)

Looks like I have a bit of sexual progressions, doesn´t it?

"also involved in natal/progress).
SPACE or I die!"
Yes, I am like that.
It is sometimes difficult though, cause I also tend to need to have a bit of a change between intense closeness (mental or emotional) alternating with distance. It confuses some people, especially if they do not know me very well.

"t may sound even better than that. She slept till her death with his last letter under her pillow. In that letter he sort of admitted that *she* has always been *IT* to him and he wrote it very shortly before his death."
oh wow!
It`s tragic, isn`t it?
And yet, it is also strangely sweet, in a tragic bittersweet way.

"Nice paired linkages btw "
I like these, as well.

Well, we also have Pluto conjunct and parallel Sappho, but since these are two different dimensions i did not mention them.