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Gemini Blues
Knowflake

Posts: 384
From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
Registered: May 2014

posted December 09, 2014 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Random Rants and Ravings

If you are easily offended, then please move along. This post is not for the feint of heart, nor is it intended to insult anyone. I just needed to get a couple of pet peeves off my chest. Hopefully my frustrations will at least amuse you and perhaps educate you, or me should you choose to correct my perceptions.

Still here? Ok then...

Triple Signs: Don't give me that weak sauce "I'm a triple {sign} because your Mercury and some random outer planet share your sun sign. I know a triple Scorpio. Sun. Moon. Ascendant. That's a triple Scorpio, baby. Her Mercury and Neptune are there too, but Triple Scorpio is about all this Earth is ready for. My Sun and Mercury are in Gemini. I'm a double Gemini not because of Mercury but because all Gemini are double. Sign of the twins.

Orbs, part one: Orb is an amount of degrees away from exact you can consider two planets to be still in aspect. It's like x in algebra. It might = 3 for some, 10 for others, 1 for someone else. Saying you allow "3 orbs" is like saying 3x. If x=3 then 9. If x=10 then 30... Orb of 3°, not 3 orbs. Please.

Orbs part two: 10° orbs? Really? Ok, a 10° orb means +/- 10°. For any one aspect, that makes a 20° range for a planet to fall in to fit the aspect. For example, for a sun at 15° Gemini, any planet from 5° Gemini to 25° Gemini would be considered conjunct. Follow so far?

Now, consider... Conjunction, Opposition, 2 possible Trines, 2 possible Squares. That's 6*20°=120°. There's only 360° in a circle, so that means any planet, and every planet, has a 1 in 3 chance of being in major aspect to any and every other planet. Throw in 2 Inconjuncts, 2 Sextiles, and 2 Semi-Sextiles (or Semi-Squares if you prefer) and the odds increase to 2 in 3.

Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. For each planet there are 9 other planets to consider. Simple odds say each planet makes a major aspect to 3 other planets. 6 if you include the minor aspects. Its even worse if you include Asc, MC, Chiron, Part of Fortune, Nodes, and Vertex, all pretty important in my book. My, we're all such complex, deep, inscrutable, beings. It gets worse still in synastry where two thirds of the human race are soul mates. Don't get me wrong, you're all supposed to be my brothers and sisters, but if you are, why do so many of you have such trouble recognizing me?

Ok, there's my rants for the night. Comment, make fun of me, or share your own. Thanks for listening.

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Koho
Knowflake

Posts: 203
From: New York
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 09, 2014 04:25 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koho     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I like you and I like this rant.

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Heartsong11
Knowflake

Posts: 620
From: RainbowPlace
Registered: Dec 2013

posted December 09, 2014 06:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Heartsong11     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

I've thought about some of your points and agree especially with the last part.

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Barbiegirl19
Knowflake

Posts: 4900
From: Pluto with DeepFreeze
Registered: Jul 2013

posted December 09, 2014 10:47 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barbiegirl19     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So true, especially the triple sign.

Or the whole "Scorpio is the most "intense" moon ever, blah blah blah" Actually the most "intense" moon would be Cancer, being that it's ruler is the moon, meaning that it feels emotions the way they're supposed to be felt. How can you discredit the sign ruled by the intense planet of feelings, emotions? Seriously

Or when people toss out everything else in their chart, as if it doesn't all work together, and focus on one thing. Really? That's like spaghetti without sauce or a car without the parts. You have to have all bit and pieces as they make you, you.

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bansheequeen
Knowflake

Posts: 754
From: Beachville, USA
Registered: Jan 2012

posted December 09, 2014 10:57 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
So true, especially the triple sign.

Or the whole "Scorpio is the most "intense" moon ever, blah blah blah" Actually the most "intense" moon would be Cancer, being that it's ruler is the moon, meaning that it feels emotions the way they're supposed to be felt. How can you discredit the sign ruled by the planet of feelings, emotions? Seriously


I agree. As a cancer moon. I used to think scorpio moons were theoretically gonna be awesome for me but in reality it's like trying to squeeze blood from a stone. After being sucked into the lives of so many plutonic people and for some reason life won't stop throwing them my way, I've learned they're not all they're cracked out to be. :/

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Barbiegirl19
Knowflake

Posts: 4900
From: Pluto with DeepFreeze
Registered: Jul 2013

posted December 09, 2014 11:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barbiegirl19     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by bansheequeen:
I agree. As a cancer moon. I used to think scorpio moons were theoretically gonna be awesome for me but in reality it's like trying to squeeze blood from a stone. After being sucked into the lives of so many plutonic people and for some reason life won't stop throwing them my way, I've learned they're not all they're cracked out to be. :/

I just don't get the obsession with it, it's really creepy. Your analogy with the stone and blood is perfect.

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Koho
Knowflake

Posts: 203
From: New York
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 09, 2014 12:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koho     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
I just don't get the obsession with it, it's really creepy. Your analogy with the stone and blood is perfect.

You guys think a Scorpio Moon is like getting blood from a stone? Geez.

Come hang out with me. I'm a Scorpio Sun with Capricorn Moon conjunct Saturn exact in the 8th. My emotional responses can be quite buried and uncomfortable to me.

Only Aquarius moons can beat this combo for emotional restrictiveness. Now that's a stone right there mhm. :P

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Barbiegirl19
Knowflake

Posts: 4900
From: Pluto with DeepFreeze
Registered: Jul 2013

posted December 09, 2014 12:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barbiegirl19     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Koho:
You guys think a Scorpio Moon is like getting blood from a stone? Geez.

Come hang out with me. I'm a Scorpio Sun with Capricorn Moon conjunct Saturn exact in the 8th. My emotional responses can be quite buried and uncomfortable to me.

Only Aquarius moons can beat this combo for emotional restrictiveness. Now that's a stone right there mhm. :P


Hahaha, we're teasing. I've dated a few Scorpio moons, have family members with Scorpio moon, just don't understand the obsession here. That's what we were implying. They aren't any more special than the other 11. The most emotionally intense being Cancer.

I'm a 12th house Libra moon, buried, uncomfortable, hidden emotional terror would be me, I have Saturn trine my Sun, Moon, Mercury and Asc as well. Imagine being buried in a coffin alive, where you're damn near suffocating. Your primary focus is breathing yet your mind is screaming at being in the coffin. Instead of screaming and voicing wanting out of the coffin, to keep sane you ignore your mind and concentrate on breathing, because if you don't then you'll panic and could die from suffocation, shock or letting your mind win in the situation. That's what I deal with everyday. It's pure terror. Dealing with my emotions is like life or death for me, they are just too powerful. So I bury them and don't turn back, when I want to go back it's almost impossible because I have so much buried in myself that I don't know where to even start. I'm learning to control and come to better terms with things but it's still a work in progress. So in short I'm quite emotionally strict, it's second nature for me.

Sorry to go off topic there.

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bansheequeen
Knowflake

Posts: 754
From: Beachville, USA
Registered: Jan 2012

posted December 09, 2014 01:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for bansheequeen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was just saying that scoprio moons are supposed to be emotional and deep and stuff but I haven't found them to be more so than anyone else. If anything they're much more protected and restricted. Capricorn moons are restricted in another way. While an aqua moon would try to make sense of thier emotions using logic. We all feel. Deeply. But deal with the feelings differently. Scorpios are strong enough to face thier emotions but they aren't open about them at all. Theyre fearless with emotion thats for sure. Whereas I think cancer just can't help but spill it all out. I have Pluto trine my moon so I think it helps me recover.

Same with your 12 house moon. Its about a loss of control when it comes to emotion. But it's a renewing kind of energy. 12 house is infinite but also foggy. I don't know what to make of it. Infinite but foggy emotions? It kinda makes sense. Like you never know what's hidden there.

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Barbiegirl19
Knowflake

Posts: 4900
From: Pluto with DeepFreeze
Registered: Jul 2013

posted December 09, 2014 01:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Barbiegirl19     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Exactly, foggy would be perfect word. It's like trying to find a needle in a hay stack. Everything else you said is exactly what I would have said.

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LucieLemonade
Knowflake

Posts: 1294
From:
Registered: Sep 2013

posted December 09, 2014 02:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for LucieLemonade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Can I add my pet peeves... :blush:

"Everyone else's synastries are really bad... Except _MINE_ which is the most intense amazing synastry ever." Really? (eyeroll)


Another one is adding every asteroid that has ever been named. Well, yes, like the orb thing, if you are putting in all the asteroids plus all the theoretical points, etc, you will eventually find something.


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PisceanDream
Knowflake

Posts: 972
From: Here
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 09, 2014 03:12 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PisceanDream     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LucieLemonade:

Another one is adding every asteroid that has ever been named.


I'm cracking up so hard over here, wow! I think the funnier ones are like... Asteroid Boda or Lovejoyas and whatnot

OMG I'M DYING! It's like... Boda is just "wedding" in Spanish. There isn't really a mythical, "collective unconscious"/Jungian rhetoric that you can use to support it.

I understand that astrology uses a very archetypal and symbolic methodology, but you do have to be more discerning in the choice of the symbols you attach and use to represent certain ideas.

Anyway, I really laughed my bum off. Thanks for that.

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DeepFreeze
Knowflake

Posts: 3824
From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19
Registered: Nov 2013

posted December 09, 2014 04:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for DeepFreeze     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Along with all the asteroids.

Selecting "aspect lines to all" when posting a chart. Looks like a mess!!

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Koho
Knowflake

Posts: 203
From: New York
Registered: Jun 2014

posted December 10, 2014 03:23 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Koho     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Barbiegirl19:
Hahaha, we're teasing. I've dated a few Scorpio moons, have family members with Scorpio moon, just don't understand the obsession here. That's what we were implying. They aren't any more special than the other 11. The most emotionally intense being Cancer.

I'm a 12th house Libra moon, buried, uncomfortable, hidden emotional terror would be me, I have Saturn trine my Sun, Moon, Mercury and Asc as well. Imagine being buried in a coffin alive, where you're damn near suffocating. Your primary focus is breathing yet your mind is screaming at being in the coffin. Instead of screaming and voicing wanting out of the coffin, to keep sane you ignore your mind and concentrate on breathing, because if you don't then you'll panic and could die from suffocation, shock or letting your mind win in the situation. That's what I deal with everyday. It's pure terror. Dealing with my emotions is like life or death for me, they are just too powerful. So I bury them and don't turn back, when I want to go back it's almost impossible because I have so much buried in myself that I don't know where to even start. I'm learning to control and come to better terms with things but it's still a work in progress. So in short I'm quite emotionally strict, it's second nature for me.

Sorry to go off topic there.


Wow! All those Saturn trines. They gotta be benefiting you greatly in some ways! Sounds to me like all that Saturn working for you should make ya one collected person!

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LucieLemonade
Knowflake

Posts: 1294
From:
Registered: Sep 2013

posted December 10, 2014 10:52 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for LucieLemonade     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PisceanDream:

Anyway, I really laughed my bum off. Thanks for that.

Plus there is no asteroid with my name so clearly I'm just jealous! Or I need to change careers, find an asteroid and lobby to have it named after me..... hmmmm.

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Lonake
Knowflake

Posts: 9843
From:
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 13, 2014 02:03 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lonake     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
So are Pisces Suns double as well..?

"Orb of 3°, not 3 orbs. Please" ... ^__^ I think it's cute when they write that.
Yea I think orbs are individual so it's up to the person and what they want to use. But I liked your rant.

...

Point 1: After taking the time to post a chart, you add so many asteroids that people can't even read the basic chart. Maybe you know the chart forwards and backwards and can tell what's what, but that doesn't mean we do. Plus when you add in a gazillion, it's super duper hard to see the signs degrees and minutes in the box below.

Point 2: Sharing your 'experience' with certain signs and placements or aspects in your chart or others when you've full well shared said charts or info before and those placements/aspects aren't in it, thus adding BS info to a conversation. No one cares about your fake chart. And (sarcasm) thanks for polluting LL.

Point 3: If you want predictive work done on your chart please add progressions and solar arcs. It's not just about transits The people who don't care about em can ignore em, and the people who do don't have to ask! And thanks to those who /are/ adding progressions and solar arcs now. You know who you are. Thanks for furthering the cause & big hugs.

--> Point 4: There was a man here called william and he used to work on composites using midpoint structures. I'd love for him to revisit. A superstar. You are missed. <--

Point 5: Don't try to make people believe you have more experience with charts than you really do. A lot of people come here really vulnerable and confused and it's /not cool/ to lead them astray. You make yourself look like an a**hole and are disrespectful of the people you're "reading" for.

Point 6: Synastry charts alone, without the natals provided. Mmhmm.

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ueharaa
Knowflake

Posts: 708
From:
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 13, 2014 02:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ueharaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gemini Blues:

Now, consider... Conjunction, Opposition, 2 possible Trines, 2 possible Squares. That's 6*20°=120°. There's only 360° in a circle, so that means any planet, and every planet, has a 1 in 3 chance of being in major aspect to any and every other planet. Throw in 2 Inconjuncts, 2 Sextiles, and 2 Semi-Sextiles (or Semi-Squares if you prefer) and the odds increase to 2 in 3.

Sun, Moon, Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, Pluto. For each planet there are 9 other planets to consider. Simple odds say each planet makes a major aspect to 3 other planets. 6 if you include the minor aspects. Its even worse if you include Asc, MC, Chiron, Part of Fortune, Nodes, and Vertex, all pretty important in my book. My, we're all such complex, deep, inscrutable, beings. It gets worse still in synastry where two thirds of the human race are soul mates. Don't get me wrong, you're all supposed to be my brothers and sisters, but if you are, why do so many of you have such trouble recognizing me?

Ok, there's my rants for the night. Comment, make fun of me, or share your own. Thanks for listening.


I find it weird how you got around calculating the probability of having a trine or opposition.

If you consider a specific planet, then there are only two points that make an exact trine to it. So without considering the pace of the other planets. Any other planet would have a 2/360 chance of making an exact trine to it. If you allow a wider orb then you get a higher probability.
So yes, having exact aspects sin't pretty much common in natal and in synastry. Websites such as astro.com allow an orb up to 10° which is why you see so many aspects. Reduce the orb to 2° and then see for yourself how there aren't so many liens. Which is why orbs are THAT important.
And this is without taking into account how fast the planets or points are moving.

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Gemini Blues
Knowflake

Posts: 384
From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
Registered: May 2014

posted December 13, 2014 02:30 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, now I know

I'm guilty of #6 and probably #1 as well.

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Gemini Blues
Knowflake

Posts: 384
From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
Registered: May 2014

posted December 13, 2014 02:40 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ueharaa:
I find it weird how you got around calculating the probability of having a trine or opposition.

If you consider a specific planet, then there are only two points that make an exact trine to it. So without considering the pace of the other planets. Any other planet would have a 2/360 chance of making an exact trine to it. If you allow a wider orb then you get a higher probability.
So yes, having exact aspects sin't pretty much common in natal and in synastry. Websites such as astro.com allow an orb up to 10° which is why you see so many aspects. Reduce the orb to 2° and then see for yourself how there aren't so many liens. Which is why orbs are THAT important.
And this is without taking into account how fast the planets or points are moving.


The calculation for a trine with a 10° orb would be the same as the conjunction... 15° Gemini would trine with 5° through 25° Libra, thus 20°. And the same again in Aquarius, thus 2 possible trines considered in the 6*20° formula.

The speed or motion of the planets is irrevelant for this discussion since a natal chart is for a stationary instant in time.

My greater point though was simply to give the reader something to think about when they considered what orb they would consider appropriate rather than to simply accept a default at a website, or to blindly accept my word for it for that matter.

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ueharaa
Knowflake

Posts: 708
From:
Registered: Sep 2011

posted December 13, 2014 02:49 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for ueharaa     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
yes so that would give us 2*20/360 probability. But I think your point was "hey don't get over excited over your aspects because there's a 2/3 chance you share it with someone else"

As for the speed you're right although I would tend to consider a moon conjunction of 10° as more significant somehow than a saturn conjunction with the same orb.

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Gemini Blues
Knowflake

Posts: 384
From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
Registered: May 2014

posted December 13, 2014 07:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ueharaa:
yes so that would give us 2*20/360 probability. But I think your point was "hey don't get over excited over your aspects because there's a 2/3 chance you share it with someone else"

As for the speed you're right although I would tend to consider a moon conjunction of 10° as more significant somehow than a saturn conjunction with the same orb.


Yes, considering only the trines. Total 2 trine, 2 square, 1 conjunction, 1 opposition, 6 possible aspects, thus the 6 in 6*20

And my point about the aspects is just the opposite. We're all unique. Some people are here to work on 20 different things. Others are here to work on just one or two. If your chart has 2 squares and a stellium then it has 2 squares and a stellium. Your probably here to work on these 2 big things and to learn all you can about the sign and house the stellium is in. If you've got grand crosses and triangles out the wazoo, your probably doing some kind of revisit of things you've done before for whatever reason. Neither person is more or less special than the other. I think if you widen the orb too much, you miss the trees for the forest.

And, since this started as a late night humorous rant when I couldn't sleep, and was never meant to be serious debate, this is as far as I'm willing to respond.

I'd be thrilled if those of you who know more than me started a discussion on why larger or smaller orbs are better, or better to vary the size by object, or aspect, or purpose. I'd listen. I'd share my thoughts, I'd have an open mind.

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