posted July 22, 2015 01:21 AM            

In my years extensively researching astrology it is time to put my foot down and just simply say "no", "I'm done".

It is not because I dislike astrology, it is has in fact given me insight in the human condition unlike non-other. Possibly due to my Jupiter in the 5th with my "childlike colored vision", conjunct Pluto my "intense, obsessive dark personality". What I think people don't realize is that although these descriptions are wonderful, useful, applicable in the way other people act also who carry the same sign; what you ultimately are doing is consciously deceiving yourself. And you don't realize it.

Why don't you realize it?
1. Science cannot successfully attest to it being true.
2. You can't play consciousness with other consciousness. Especially if "consciousness" itself, cannot yet be successfully defined either. It seems unreasonable and futile.
3. Divination is a form of mental illness rather you realize it or not.
4. Astrology distorts everyday perception.

We use this knowledge based on our own unresolved traumas of past events. We continuously keep using Astrology to recycle past experiences. Rather they are painful, sad, interesting, etc. It becomes a defense mechanism.

What I'm saying is, all beliefs are essentially futile. If you have studied the "mind" in depth, you are inclined to believe that just a single thought can influence everything.

posted July 22, 2015 01:48 AM            

Psychiatry and psychology both can mess you up as well, and on top of that it's distressingly common that many get into that field because of their own issues which they never resolve and then start imposing them onto those who come to them for help so that such people seeing them for help are forced to unknowingly deal with their therapist's issues without getting much help for their own (interesting study I came across once suggested that the less training one had as a therapist the more effective people found them, and in my own experience the only two therapists I found useful for dealing with my own trauma was one in the process of being trained--and refused to charge me anything because of it--and another who was just a "referee" at a support group). (That said, I do think some professional astrologers are just as bad in trying to resolve their own traumatic past through those who come to them.)

Basically, drop everything, stop running, and deal with it. Maybe astrology is a defense mechanism for you but about anything else you replace it with will be as well until you deal with it instead of running from it. Dropping astrology isn't going to make your past go away or make it stop bothering you, it will find other ways to enter your life no matter how much you want to "defend" yourself from it (no matter how fast and far you run it's still there inside you trying to get out).

posted July 22, 2015 01:57 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
If I felt this way then I'd take a sabbatical from astrology and do what I had to in order to resolve the traumas and past events...and how to do that is a tricky question.

Psychiatry and psychology both can mess you up as well, and on top of that it's distressingly common that many get into that field because of their own issues which they never resolve and then start imposing them onto those who come to them for help so that such people seeing them for help are forced to unknowingly deal with their therapist's issues without getting much help for their own (interesting study I came across once suggested that the less training one had as a therapist the more effective people found them, and in my own experience the only two therapists I found useful for dealing with my own trauma was one in the process of being trained--and refused to charge me anything because of it--and another who was just a "referee" at a support group). (That said, I do think some professional astrologers are just as bad in trying to resolve their own traumatic past through those who come to them.)

Basically, drop everything, stop running, and deal with it. Maybe astrology is a defense mechanism--for you--but about anything else you replace it with will be as well until you deal with it instead of running from it. Dropping astrology isn't going to make your past go away or make it stop bothering you, it will find other ways to enter your life no matter how much you want to "defend" yourself from it (no matter how fast and far you run it's still there inside you trying to get out).

And after I felt it had been dealt with to a point that it was no longer dominating my life then perhaps I'd pick up astrology again if it still interested me. And if it didn't then I'd find something else that did, no big deal.

---

Although this is such a great answer, I feel like ...

Come on?
Really?

posted July 22, 2015 02:08 AM            

quote:

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2. You can't play consciousness with other consciousness. Especially if "consciousness" itself, cannot yet be successfully defined either. It seems unreasonable and futile.

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For someone who thinks all knowledge is futile and can't look into others you're still operating on the belief that you know everyone else by looking at yourself.

But more importantly you're now using a new defense mechanism: you're trying to start a fight or other emotional incident so that you can concentrate on this now, in the present, instead of whatever past you're running from (or possibly trying to recreate a problem, perhaps of rejection, so that you endure it again). And I'm not going to help you with that.

posted July 22, 2015 02:18 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Your assumptions are begging the question, and I'd also remind you of #2:

For someone who thinks all knowledge is futile and can't look into others you're still operating on the belief that you know everyone else by looking at yourself.

But more importantly you're now using a new defense mechanism: you're trying to start a fight or other emotional incident so that you can concentrate on this now, in the present, instead of whatever past you're running from (or possibly trying to recreate a problem, perhaps of rejection, so that you endure it again). And I'm not going to help you with that.

Just in case you really are looking for a way to break out of a bad cycle rather than start a fight or repeat a pattern (to continue that bad cycle) then all I can really suggest is either support groups or, if really desperate, even psilocybin. About everything else, including trying to make us see astrology as you now do, is just a distraction from whatever is truly bugging you.

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I can't really talk to anyone. Nobody where I am really knows about Astrology nor do I think there are any reputable psychologists who would take it seriously. The problem is that studying and basing so much off of it is stressing me out. I feel like I'm split between my beliefs and what's really happening around me.

posted July 22, 2015 03:59 AM            

When I'm not at odds with my belief system, I trust the Universe and stars because neither can lie to you. I had my palm and cards read recently, and as I expected, the psychic was specific but vague; observational and perceptive; and didn't tell me anything that I didn't already know via astrology. Although I was miffed that I had to hand her money at the end of the reading, the experience taught me that astrology is what's most true and accurate.

Transits help to confirm the idea of astrology. For example, the Sun-Neptune conjunction of February 2015 gave us Dressgate. Neptune is illusion and the Sun is individuality; and the colour of the dress was specific to each observer. The dress appeared on social media the day the Sun was 0°00 conjunct Neptune and since coincidences don't exist, only astrology can explain why this bizarre event occurred.

There's even something in the air right now that caused you to question your beliefs and create this thread. You feel it, I feel it, and others feel it; but how do we explain it? We turn to astrology.

posted July 22, 2015 04:09 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
Hello everyone

In my years extensively researching astrology it is time to put my foot down and just simply say "no", "I'm done".

It is not because I dislike astrology, it is has in fact given me insight in the human condition unlike non-other. Possibly due to my Jupiter in the 5th with my "childlike colored vision", conjunct Pluto my "intense, obsessive dark personality". What I think people don't realize is that although these descriptions are wonderful, useful, applicable in the way other people act also who carry the same sign; what you ultimately are doing is consciously deceiving yourself. And you don't realize it.

Why don't you realize it?
1. Science cannot successfully attest to it being true.
2. You can't play consciousness with other consciousness. Especially if "consciousness" itself, cannot yet be successfully defined either. It seems unreasonable and futile.
3. Divination is a form of mental illness rather you realize it or not.
4. Astrology distorts everyday perception.

We use this knowledge based on our own unresolved traumas of past events. We continuously keep using Astrology to recycle past experiences. Rather they are painful, sad, interesting, etc. It becomes a defense mechanism.

What I'm saying is, all beliefs are essentially futile. If you have studied the "mind" in depth, you are inclined to believe that just a single thought can influence everything.

Would anyone else like to chime in and offer some insight on what I should do? This seems desperate of me but I am not sure what is causing me pain. My thoughts or the actual trauma concerning the reality of who I am/what I have done here on this Planet?

---

What on earth are you talking about? If you want to drop Astrology, then you are free to do so, and come back when you like; but suggesting that it distorts our everyday life is a very silly thing to say. Some of us can control the difference between the element of surprise and astrology; so we have a choice whether to be surprised or get a heads up on future events.

Past events allow us to learn what configurations to look out for in the future.

No-one is stopping you, but suggesting that we are all like you in being deceived is controversial.
Just don't turn into one of those people who lets astrology or any sort of study of the mind consume you and start using it on everything, take it all with a pinch of salt and then use it if you feel it's necessary.

You come across like you have absorbed too much of it; so a break will do you good.

posted July 22, 2015 09:45 AM              

quote:

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UnderworldGlory said:
Would anyone else like to chime in and offer some insight on what I should do?

---

Sure, I'll chime in. I don't know if I can offer you "insight", but I can make a suggestion. Especially since you seem to prefer a scientific approach to the matter.

I have an experiment I'd like to conduct. The idea for it came to me some years ago, but I haven't yet found the time and inclination (simultaneously) to do so. You could help me design and implement it.

posted July 22, 2015 11:01 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
What I'm saying is, all beliefs are essentially futile. If you have studied the "mind" in depth, you are inclined to believe that just a single thought can influence everything.

---

Zen Story: Heaven and Hell

Hakuin, the fiery and intensely dynamic Zen master, was once visited by a samurai warrior.

“I want to know about heaven and hell,” said the samurai. “Do they really exist?” he asked Hakuin.
Hakuin looked at the soldier and asked, “Who are you?”

“I am a samurai,” announced the proud warrior.

“Ha!” exclaimed Hakuin. “What makes you think you can understand such insightful things? You are merely a callous, brutish soldier! Go away and do not waste my time with your foolish questions,” Hakuin said, waving his hand to drive away the samurai.

The enraged samurai couldn’t take Hakuin’s insults. He drew his sword, readied for the kill, when Hakuin calmly retorted, “This is hell.”

The soldier was taken aback. His face softened. Humbled by the wisdom of Hakuin, he put away his sword and bowed before the Zen Master.

posted July 22, 2015 11:09 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
4. Astrology distorts everyday perception.

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It's the object placed into conscious awareness that can distort everyday perception but that can be anything.

Astrology distorts everyday perception.
Religious attachment distorts everyday perception.
Racial/Cultural beliefs distort everyday perception.

posted July 22, 2015 03:17 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
3. Divination is a form of mental illness rather you realize it or not.

---

~ Oh, I think you forgot to mention that if anyone disagrees with that, it's because that person is living in constant denial, not wanting to admit his/her mental disorder. And if you add... that it's advisable to get "professional" help and probably take some anti-depressants, the Combo would be complete
===================================
Anyway, why don't you at least try to edit it? There's an edit button there.

Instead of creating such meaningless drama, kind of weird to express 2-3 fallacies and then say: "Oh, no I'm sorry. Please some mod delete this. Yes, everyone is kind here". I mean... it's kind of embarrasing. (But understandable, according to the moral code of the typical deceiver)

posted July 22, 2015 03:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
In my years extensively researching astrology...

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...

posted July 22, 2015 04:10 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by GemBird82:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
In my years extensively researching astrology...

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Ehmm... Hmmm... ~ Have a Good Day [/QUOTE]

posted July 22, 2015 04:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
In my years extensively researching astrology it is time to put my foot down and just simply say "no", "I'm done".

---

Go and study something else that inspires you. How about new make-up techniques? lol

posted July 22, 2015 04:13 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by astra7:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by UnderworldGlory:
In my years extensively researching astrology it is time to put my foot down and just simply say "no", "I'm done".

---

[/QUOTE]

posted July 22, 2015 04:19 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SDragon:
Zen Story: Heaven and Hell

Hakuin, the fiery and intensely dynamic Zen master, was once visited by a samurai warrior.

“I want to know about heaven and hell,” said the samurai. “Do they really exist?” he asked Hakuin.
Hakuin looked at the soldier and asked, “Who are you?”

“I am a samurai,” announced the proud warrior.

“Ha!” exclaimed Hakuin. “What makes you think you can understand such insightful things? You are merely a callous, brutish soldier! Go away and do not waste my time with your foolish questions,” Hakuin said, waving his hand to drive away the samurai.

The enraged samurai couldn’t take Hakuin’s insults. He drew his sword, readied for the kill, when Hakuin calmly retorted, “This is hell.”

The soldier was taken aback. His face softened. Humbled by the wisdom of Hakuin, he put away his sword and bowed before the Zen Master.

“And this is heaven,” Hakuin stated, just as calmly.

---

posted July 22, 2015 04:23 PM            

Beliefs we hold, particularly those we hold about ourselves and about life generally, have a higher priority in their effect upon us than anything to do with astrology.

I won't state that you should give up on astrology by closing it off with yet another belief (that it is delusional or not really real, etc). However, it may be that this is a better time for your to get to know yourself in a different way -- more directly from the inside.

You mentioned unresolved traumas. Maybe that is where you should start.

From your replies, it seems to me that you are determined to shut astrology out of your life, at least for now. That is perfectly appropriate and you don't need the validation of anyone here to do that.

posted July 22, 2015 04:27 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SDragon:
Zen Story: Heaven and Hell

Hakuin, the fiery and intensely dynamic Zen master, was once visited by a samurai warrior.

“I want to know about heaven and hell,” said the samurai. “Do they really exist?” he asked Hakuin.
Hakuin looked at the soldier and asked, “Who are you?”

“I am a samurai,” announced the proud warrior.

“Ha!” exclaimed Hakuin. “What makes you think you can understand such insightful things? You are merely a callous, brutish soldier! Go away and do not waste my time with your foolish questions,” Hakuin said, waving his hand to drive away the samurai.

The enraged samurai couldn’t take Hakuin’s insults. He drew his sword, readied for the kill, when Hakuin calmly retorted, “This is hell.”

The soldier was taken aback. His face softened. Humbled by the wisdom of Hakuin, he put away his sword and bowed before the Zen Master.

“And this is heaven,” Hakuin stated, just as calmly.

---

Thanks so much for sharing that!

posted July 22, 2015 04:32 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Thanks so much for sharing that!

This reminds me that I've been meaning to read up more on Zen...and it's about time for me to return to the library.

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posted July 22, 2015 06:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Bekzilla:
Philosophical musings aside, I just want you to know that you’re not alone in feeling like obsessing over your chart is just making mental/emotional things worse, if I’m hearing you correctly. I have a pretty depressing chart (Moon in 12th house Cancer nicely and tightly squared by retrogrades Saturn, Mars, and Pluto; Pisces Sun in 8th, etc.), and when I first dug into astrology I thought that it was all the proof I needed to finally confirm that I (pick one or any) suck, am a wet blanket, will always be an introvert with no real friends, aren’t as smart or pretty as I thought I was, etc. etc. and so on. But after pushing through that negative wall I had and educating myself further, I’ve come to see strengths in even my most difficult aspects. I’ve also come to realize how I’ve grown as a person. I’m not my natal chart- no one is. But this experience I had made me finally face all the sh*t about myself that I had been hiding from myself. If I hadn’t had it put in front of my nose, I wouldn’t have been forced to finally deal with it. I’m not all the way out the other side yet, but I can see the light. I can’t give advice, but I hope that you will be able to find that inner light you have hidden deep inside of you, trust it, and let it speak to you- with or without astrology. As a sentient being, you are worthy of it.

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I'm really sorry to hear that. :/
Sun, Mercury, Venus in 12th house
Moon in 8th here.