posted October 11, 2015 11:38 AM            

So what is the difference?
I've always been surrounded by a lot of scorpio's...
My Mom- scorp Moon/Saturn birth time unknown
My Dad- scorp Sun/Moon/Mercury birth time unknown
My Daughter- scorp AC
My Son- scorp AC/Mars
My younger Son- scorp SN/Mars/Venus

What I've noticed is scorpios test as part of who they are, they unconsciously do this.
It's like scorpio focus it's ability to break things down and break things apart on specific relationships and circumstances, Plutonians focus this energy on a much larger scale.
We don't break specific ppl or relationships down as much as we focus on the bigger picture, life, the world we take on the universe while scorpios are much more focused on what's exactly in front of them.
It's like scorpios make sure their house is in perfect order while Pluto wants to make sure the whole neighborhood is in order. We both work the same way but it's focus is different.
It makes a lot of sense because the sign of scorpio is the energy of Pluto focused on whatever outlet it is being funnel through, the planet and house shows it's focus. But Pluto the planet is generational so it's not focused on the specific life event of the persons natal chart, it's about the generation of ppl born under this particular Pluto energy, mine being libra...my generation of Pluto is seeking to find balance for our world.

But my Pluto being in such a personal place, on my AC and conjunct my chart ruler...my Pluto becomes very personal meaning my personal life in some way can become part of the balancing of humanity. If I act on my life paths potential, which I can ignore if I want.

Being around scorpions I see their games, I like their games. As long as they don't hurt me to much I'll play along, but I see both sides. I know how to behave and I agree with the way they want me to behave. I think their views are appropriate and I share them, but I don't feel the needs to test ppl like they do...I want to test humanity more than a specific person. I want to shock humanity out of it's mind control and force them to open up. I believe this is what scorpios are trying to do in their relationships and in the ppl they care about lives, it's a way of saving them. It's plutos way of saving anything, shaking it at it's core and then helping rebuild the foundation that's been left in pieces.

So taking this concept....
Neptune wants to give the world a higher belief or it wants to create illusions but typically focused on a larger scale, you might get caught up in the persons illusion but they will not have meant that illusion for you, it would already be part of their ongoing life concept meant for everyone, not just you. For good or bad depending on the aspects...

The sign of pisces will specifically focus this energy on you....creating illusions, disillusion or a higher purpose meant just for you!

Now bring Pluto and Neptune together...
So often Pluto and Neptune are sextile each other(in my chart they are exact by minutes sextile) when these 2 planets work together in harmony Pluto destroys and forces reality while Neptune keeps up hope and sees the higher purpose for the destruction.
What comes from this is beautiful, spiritual growth!

Pisces and scorpio together....hmmm, my son has a pisces Sun exact trine his scorp Mars...he is a deep thinker and cares so much, maybe these energies balance each other out when not afflicted?

So this is my rambeling thoughts today...

posted October 11, 2015 12:49 PM            

I know outer planets love the companionship of synastry but it's not necessary, personal planets in pisces or scorpio need another person to give them a place to focus their energy.

posted October 11, 2015 01:23 PM            

I don't like testing people, but I will observe and even spy if necessary to make sure the person is truthful. I don't like lying of any kind. But I keep my findings to my self. I have the information for my reference, not for gossiping.

From what I observed in my life Scorpios are more at ease with the Plutonic energy. It's more natural for them. I mean I have a Gem Sun, and I never understood my temper until I found out about the Moon/Pluto Scorp in the 8th house lol. It feels like I have two personalities, like a real split. Not the normal Gemini duality thing.

I can understand what you mean because for me it's like my placements affect my vision of things in general, while I feel Sun in Scorpio people are more focused on specific things. I hope I'm making sense here :-D

posted October 11, 2015 01:59 PM            

Typically my Pluto/Venus does not act like scorpio Venus, as in the testing ppl n such....but will let them see my Plutonian qualities as I follow my own path. I will not use those qualities against the person(unless they are hurting me, which becomes self preservation) the way scorpio Venus can.
I love that you do observe but don't use it against ppl, if you investigate it's probably just to make sure of who they are....it's not done to look for issues and catch them in lies or just mistrust in general.
To me that is Pluto energy that behaves like that but it's not scorpio energy. Scorpio personal planets are so mistrustful of ppl in their lives.
Pluto conjunct Venus will act very different from scorpio Venus because the Pluto/scorp energy in focused on different areas, more universal less personal.

Personal planets are going to focus on the personal relationships and Pluto/Venus will have that intensity but focus that energy on the life purpose more than a relationship. That's not saying a relationship can't get caught in the crossfires of Pluto but typically as long as the relationship isn't doing harm Pluto doesn't destroy or go after the relationship.

posted October 11, 2015 02:50 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Soltze:

From what I observed in my life Scorpios are more at ease with the Plutonic energy. It's more natural for them.

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I had a Scorpio tell me about my Venus/Pluto, Look, you're losing it. I get it.. I totally understand.. but get a grip. You're losing it.

posted October 11, 2015 03:05 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Gabby:
Now bring Pluto and Neptune together...
So often Pluto and Neptune are sextile each other(in my chart they are exact by minutes sextile) when these 2 planets work together in harmony Pluto destroys and forces reality while Neptune keeps up hope and sees the higher purpose for the destruction.
What comes from this is beautiful, spiritual growth!

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I don't have time to share all my thoughts that this bring up in me right now, but I wanted to say I also have Pluto sextile Neptune (both in conjunctions, both those conjunctions having planets and sun on the Scorpio cusp, btw) and can relate to this.

I thought what you said was spot on, all of it offhand (and I seem to connect well with Scorpios and Pisces both without feeling like one myself). When I was younger I used to want to shock the world out of being mind controlled as well (and joined a Discordian cabal for that reason), and I--more or less--avoided the common pitfall of most such people thinking that I was free of such mind control (some people preaching against mind control are even more mind controlled that regular people!), though I came to realize my mind was more clouded than I originally thought and I'm still sorting through it.

I now focus on specific people to much more carefully sort these things out (with each other), and perhaps my stories (no doubt a manifestation of my 5H Sag, including moon which needs to express itself in some artistic way) are part of that process which is why I evoke so many moral shades of gray and dilemmas into them, in addition to themes of propaganda, reactionary drivel, all sorts of all too common social forces. (I'm especially having fun with the story that takes place in the 26th century where in addition to all the new religions are the old religions that have adapted in ways that people today wouldn't recognize, but they assume their old time religions were always like that, just as we do today which is just as inaccurate.)

posted October 11, 2015 03:47 PM            

On the flip side I hypothesize that afflictions between pisces and scorpio can lead to paranoia and delusions, people with delusions are obsessed with them and won't let go of them, its like they are married to them and don't like others to question them. Neptune can equal delusions and scorpio can be paranoid, obsessive and stubborn/fixed.

So when the bad qualities of pisces meet with the bad qualities of scorpio I hypothesize that it can result in delusional disorder or paranoid schizophrenia.

Like I had a client with sun-pluto-mercury opposing chiron-moon in pisces with opposition trining and sextiling her NEPTUNE and she is completely GONE. I hypothesize that her neptune must fall in the 12th too, she is full blown schizophrenic.

Now I have sun at late degrees opposite moon squaring both my neptune with neptune on the AC at the apex of tsquare and vesta being the release point and I am not crazy. I do have moon opposite mercury too squaring the nodes and you can say I have a mood disorder specially in connection to my menstrual cycle as moon rules my 8th but nothing like my client, I do have sun conjunct horus.

I feel her and I differ in that pluto and mercury conjunct her SUN! and in that Chiron conjuncts her moon and in that the opposition forms SOFT aspects to her NEPTUNE.

posted October 11, 2015 03:48 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by venus2tinkerbell:
I had a Scorpio tell me about my Venus/Pluto, Look, you're losing it. I get it.. I totally understand.. but get a grip. You're losing it.

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posted October 11, 2015 04:34 PM            

My Venus in Libra is in a wide conjunction with Pluto in Scorpio…and if I compare myself to a girl I know who HAS Venus IN Scorpio - for me it is more "the themes" of Pluto.

I have issues with intense fear of losing people, so I get jealous and possessive. The love of love which is essential for Libra more in an intellectual way, gets a question of life and death for me often.
Such conjunctions bring situations with them and certain patterns of reaction, maybe….

The Scorpio Venus Girl on the other hand, is easyly recognized on the outside. Her eyes are dark and intense, her body moves in da very decisive way, her curly hair falls wildly. She also has these Plutonic issues with guys, though…
But I don't have that energy on me, at least not that I know.

But there is something I like to know:

I also have Neptune (12th) conjunct my Mars (11th) both in Sag. Two thirds of the men I attracted have Mars in Scorpio, starting from my first boyfriend.

posted October 11, 2015 06:41 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by yungang_grotto:
Doesn't everyone want to shake everyone at their core and break things up? No?

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In case it's an actual question, no. The vast majority don't.

However, many do wish to promote and even coerce others to adopt one's own self, to become part of one's tribe (or cast out). Conformity is demanded by quite a few, and until relatively recently, it was demanded under law in most jurisdictions around the world. And just a few minutes ago I came across this quote on a comic:
http://www.gocomics.com/calvinandhobbes/2015/10/11

quote:

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My point is that if everyone sought to become laws unto themselves in the name of “individuality,” we would end up with nothing more than a society of outlaws. Social order, discipline, and yes, even some degree of conformity are what prevent us from degenerating into anarchy and chaos

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This was in response to someone said he took his kids out of school so that they could learn critical thinking skills rather than how to test well (earlier he implied his kids would shoot up a school ), but I've run into that attitude before, and many moral panics and witch hunts are based on it, the new and different corrupting society, whether it's a new religion, a new genre of music, or even a new game (there are groups that rise up to combat games that aren't even that popular saying they're dangerous just for being different!).

At its most benign, people take comfort in thinking most others are like them, and so they shun (even try to shame) those who are different (and don't recognize that others are doing the same to them) so that they come to believe that they're the majority.

One extreme example was someone on the internet confused why people were giving South Carolina a hard time as being intolerant to gays when most she knew were liberal and tolerant. I pointed out that's who she knew, but not the state in general. She contested that until I showed her the marriage amendment to make marriage between a man and a woman--and even deny civil unions (which made it more extreme than most other states)--that got nearly a 90% approval from the voters, which is the highest in the nation. She couldn't argue with that but it surprised her, because she did the "shun and shame the bigots" without realizing the bigots were doing the same to her and thus thought her very small minority were the majority in South Carolina! (She even admitted that she'd moved there from out of state and had to leave like 3 churches before she found one she could mesh with, and yet thought the majority were just a "few bad apples.")

And while extreme, that's also pretty typical (the difference of the South Carolinian simply being one of degree rather than kind) of how a great many people are without realizing it, which gives them the illusion of being easygoing and open minded "like most other people I know." Of course they're nothing of the sort, they're only that way with those who think like themselves.

posted October 11, 2015 06:57 PM            

Esoteric Astrology brings about a return to an ancient knowledge which related the constellations and our solar system, drew attention to the nature of the zodiac and informed humanity as to the basic interrelations which govern and control the phenomenal and subjective worlds, personified for example by the symbol of the sphinx representing the union of spirit and matter and their relation to each other, a fact that made ancient astrologers merge Virgo-Leo into one sign.

Esoteric astrology works from the universal to the particular and from the general to the specific as opposed to modern astrology which has reversed the true and right procedure and has laid the emphasis upon the specific and particular, upon the personal horoscope and the individual destiny, and has not laid the emphasis upon the great energies and their Sources. These Sources are ultimately responsible for the manifestation of the specific. Thus, constellations, solar systems, planets, kingdoms in nature and microscopic man are all of them the result of the activity and the manifestation of energy of certain Lives Which play through the ether of space. Space is thus considered an entity, and it is with the life of this entity and with the forces and energies, the impulses and the rhythms, the cycles and the times and seasons that esoteric astrology deals.

Sign/Orthodox Ruler/Esoteric Ruler
Aries Mars Mercury
Taurus Venus Vulcan
Gemini Mercury Venus
Cancer Moon Neptune
Leo Sun Sun
Virgo Mercury Moon
Libra Venus Uranus
Scorpio Mars Mars
Sagittarius Jupiter Earth
Capricorn Saturn Saturn
Aquarius Uranus Jupiter
Pisces Jupiter Pluto

posted October 11, 2015 07:12 PM            

Pluto conjunct asc first house. (Libra)
Sextile Neptune and Saturn

Uranus conjunct nn in Scorpio.

posted October 12, 2015 12:46 AM            

Just because one is plutonic first mean one is watery or understand how water Mars works.