posted April 17, 2016 12:00 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
I think aflicted mars with a combination of airy or mental elements with which the person identifies with.

the person does not want to show anger in the most direct way (arian type for instance) as they may perceive they lose power. then, they resort of a controlled but smelly anger than transpire all their words..

it is always anger repressed and not fresh. dont know if I am making myself clear, but I cannot think of a typical mars in leo-aries or sagitarius without afliction from saturn-neptune-pluto or even uranus with such hostility... they will be more straightforward...

people may identify more with their light side (lets say you have planets in gemini, acuarious, sagitaruous) and you dont want or dont accept the less "evolved" martian side of you, then you may repress the fresh anger and then it becomes sort of contempt..

I am brainstorming here, but based on my observation as this is an area i have observed a lot because it fascinates me..

normally mars is wounded. it can also have some chiron. the thing is that the person has not processed their anger and feel powerful when they can inflict pain or anger other people. mars has to do with being able to go for what i want and get it. a healthy mars goes for it and fight for it. when frustration from early age has wounded mars, it can take this way of becoming porwerful.. i cannot healt my wound, but i can hurt others... then i am powerful... sad way to become powerful though.
does it make sense?

---

I like your ideas here.

My Mars is afflicted, but I am not a hostile person.

When something really bothers me, I either express it (Gemini Mars trine 3H Pluto) or dissolve it (Mars in a t-square with Pisces moon and Neptune).

That means I either say something direct and to the point, and feel completely justified in doing so, or I wouldn't have said anything....or I forgive and forget. Or both. Actually, most often it's both. "You pi$$ed me off, not that I actually care, in the grand scheme of things it's not important."

So I'm not hostile, I harbor nothing inside to make me that way.

posted April 17, 2016 12:07 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:
It bothers me at times, that anyone who meets me now, or has only met me over the past few years, might think that this is me, and always has been. It isn't - not even close.

---

I think you don't give yourself or others enough credit then? Your sweetness is pretty obvious.

posted April 17, 2016 12:12 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Elysia:
For instance, if I intensely dislike someone, to the point of contempt - it's hard to disguise that. And they'll feel that hostile *vibe* even if I'm verbally polite to them.

---

I love it. It's honest.

I can't think of anyone I have contempt for. Usually if people are nasty I think they are funny. Like my friend and I had to deal with a woman who was totally full of herself, insulting, spreading rumors and making things hard for us.

I swear I cannot think of this woman without laughing my head off. I'm serious. She is like a caricature of the Ultimate ***** .

And if I had to be around her, I would be trying not to giggle as she looks down her nose at me and tries to make me feel small.

posted April 17, 2016 12:33 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I love it. It's honest.

I can't think of anyone I have contempt for. Usually if people are nasty I think they are funny. Like my friend and I had to deal with a woman who was totally full of herself, insulting, spreading rumors and making things hard for us.

I swear I cannot think of this woman without laughing my head off. I'm serious. She is like a caricature of the Ultimate ***** .

And if I had to be around her, I would be trying not to giggle as she looks down her nose at me and tries to make me feel small.

HILARIOUS

---

I see what you mean, though..
^ I have this 'level' of feeling sorry/ finding-them-so-ridiculous-they're-funny feeling for some people..
But some manage to inflict enough damage to really get under your skin.. Gahh. :/ Anyhoo.. What you said on some other thread, applies here too -- to not let other people determine your internal state. 'Coz all it does is bother you, and it's not worth it. So, why...right?

(I think I said there, something to the effect that that's what I try to do..but haven't found the right path, or stuck to it..)

P.S. Was that woman your ex-roomie? Or the sister who doesn't speak?

posted April 17, 2016 12:52 PM            

My sister was creating trouble for me years ago. It bothered me at the time. I feel like I have changed a lot since then and I don't know how I would react if something similar happened again.

But you know, I KNOW that I try to be good to people...and I trust my karma....so most of the time I can be comfortable with whatever is happening. Even if I'm not comfortable, on one level I am very accepting, which is a healing force within...to just go with the flow.

posted April 17, 2016 12:57 PM            

quote:

---

P.S. Was that woman your ex-roomie? Or the sister who doesn't speak?

---

posted April 17, 2016 12:58 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
The thing is, those walls are only apparent to some people, it's not like an objectively good or bad thing. Some people actually like walls.

My sister was creating trouble for me years ago. It bothered me at the time. I feel like I have changed a lot since then and I don't know how I would react if something similar happened again.

But you know, I KNOW that I try to be good to people...and I trust my karma....so most of the time I can be comfortable with whatever is happening. Even if I'm not comfortable, on one level I am very accepting, which is a healing force within...to just go with the flow.

Maybe in the future I will need to change again but for now, people don't really bother me. No one has the power to bother me that much. They're just people. You know?

---

posted April 17, 2016 04:04 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I like your ideas here.

My Mars is afflicted, but I am not a hostile person.

When something really bothers me, I either express it (Gemini Mars trine 3H Pluto) or dissolve it (Mars in a t-square with Pisces moon and Neptune).

That means I either say something direct and to the point, and feel completely justified in doing so, or I wouldn't have said anything....or I forgive and forget. Or both. Actually, most often it's both. "You pi$$ed me off, not that I actually care, in the grand scheme of things it's not important."

So I'm not hostile, I harbor nothing inside to make me that way.

It's all pretty fresh.

---

Thanks Faith for the compliment. I appreciate it. As for the hostility, I just want to be sure I understood what you meant by hostility. I believe you meant someone who is always distilling contempt and treat other as if they despise humans or something like that. my impression was that it is people who come accross as cold but negatively making remarks that make other outraged. sometimes it is not what they said, but the energy of hatred inside them. did I get it right?

as for your placements, I think that being hostile as a personality thing needs a wounded experience in life that has not been solved and the person feel powerless and his-her mars has been wounded. then, they resort to be coldish and contemptuous as a way to overcompensate. they feel powerful this way, but in reality they are powerless..

Regarding the mars-neptune square (two of my exes and one boss has that) i do not think it is hostile aspect per se (unless it is accompanied by wounded experiences as I mentioned above), but can lack assertiveness as there is a conflict between going for what you want and merging with others and making sure that everyone is not affected by the decision. I have never met a mars-neptune who is straighforward in going for what they what. even one of my exes and my boss has mars in leo but the neptune square make them less assertive. In my exes I noticed that they never wanted to say what they wanted, they always wanted me to take the initiave so as not to feel they were pushing and my boss was not very assertive either. they needed to be sure I was ok with whatever we wanted to do. i observed some manipulation though "i want this but i want you to think it is you... " I have also observed that aggresive people tends to pick on mars-neptune people. why? I think aggression sometimes run unconscious as sometimes is to rough for Neptune delicacy. then they bring aggression from outside. someone live out the mars-neptune aggression for them. it is interesting that you mention that you can dissolve anger. I dont mean to accuse you of anything and forgive me if I am out of place here, but I cannot help but wondering if this is not an unconscious way to repress negative feelings such as anger and then anger goes undetected and unconscious and then is projected onto other. do you attract angry people?

I have read that the best way to work with this energy is to do some sort of marcial arts, or yoga as it works with both planets. a way to armonize them..

I believe the aspect mars pluto can become explosive as the needs of survival of the individual also bring the need of survival of the collective. as if the mars-pluto person has an antena to canalize the collective needs. this aspect works well when used to fight for the collective. this energy cannot be limited to assert for your needs, it need to integrate collective survival needs. Gemini, on the other hand wants to keep things at mental and intelectual level and may not be comfortable with so much intensity and emotions. it is not an easy placement to have mars in gemini aspecting pluto specially if mars is afflicted by neptune. Mercury mars is civilized and intelectual. all solved by reasoning and words. if you side with being very civilized, you may disown your pluto and you can become passive-aggresive. my nephew has mars in gemini and he cannot stand fights or anything that goes beyond reason, but two months in my house and he was driving me insane with his passive aggresiveness. if you own your pluto, then this will become a helful aspect that would allow you to accept the rough part of your nature and also become an instrument for improving the collective. the mars pluto need a fight that is beyond his own needs and problems...

Faith, forgive my utterance. I am aware you did not ask my opinion. hope you find these comments helful..

best wishes

posted April 17, 2016 04:20 PM            

I have to said that most people would feel the hostility. when people are angry even if behaving in civilized manner, the atmosphere is heavy, the undercurrent is so uncomfortable that sometimes prefer to be yelled at than to experience this.

I remember once a friend of mine was in my house and she was mad at me because i made so much noise at night and she needed to sleep. she never told me because she was in my house, but she felt abused somehow. anyway, i started feeling very angry at her because i felt the undercurrent but i had no clue what was going on. it ended up with a big argument. i had an explosion that was so intense (mar in cancer, conjunct sun) that our friendship was really damaged. that experience made me think how damaging is the angry undercurrent. at that time i was not familiar with certain literature about aggression and did not understand why i was so angry. i was living her anger for her as i was a person with a temper. she instead got an ulcer (not kidding) and she confessed me that she prefer to get an ulcer than to show weakeness by losing her temper. not going into her astro aspects, but since then i realized that i preferred my sisters with confrontational attitude, but more open. you fight and then it is over than this heavy undercurrent for days or weeks.. that drives me totally insane..

posted April 17, 2016 05:19 PM            

So many good observations!

quote:

---

I believe you meant someone who is always distilling contempt and treat other as if they despise humans or something like that. my impression was that it is people who come accross as cold but negatively making remarks that make other outraged. sometimes it is not what they said, but the energy of hatred inside them. did I get it right?

---

Yes, I am talking about people who do seem to carry hatred inside of them.

quote:

---

as for your placements, I think that being hostile as a personality thing needs a wounded experience in life that has not been solved and the person feel powerless and his-her mars has been wounded. then, they resort to be coldish and contemptuous as a way to overcompensate. they feel powerful this way, but in reality they are powerless..

---

I like your theory. Though I'm not so sure about power and powerlessness. It's a philosophical question that I'm stuck on.

quote:

---

Regarding the mars-neptune square (two of my exes and one boss has that) i do not think it is hostile aspect per se (unless it is accompanied by wounded experiences as I mentioned above), but can lack assertiveness as there is a conflict between going for what you want and merging with others and making sure that everyone is not affected by the decision.

---

It's true what you said, sometimes I am not assertive enough. I have a hard time making decisions that may negatively impact other people. If someone is begging me not to do something, that weighs on me and may determine my course. It's one of the most problematic aspects of my chart and personality.

quote:

---

I have never met a mars-neptune who is straighforward in going for what they what.

---

I can be straightforward (I have the opposition, not the square, if that matters.) And my good friend who has a moon-Mars-Neptune t-square like me is even more straightforward. But as I said, when people don't want me to do something and act like they will suffer if I do what I want, that tends to hold me back.

quote:

---

it is interesting that you mention that you can dissolve anger. I dont mean to accuse you of anything and forgive me if I am out of place here, but I cannot help but wondering if this is not an unconscious way to repress negative feelings such as anger and then anger goes undetected and unconscious and then is projected onto other. do you attract angry people?

---

I don't know how to explain who I am and what I do?

By dissolving the anger, what I meant is, I am watchful of my inner space and take responsibility for it. So if I am angry at someone I usually ask myself, "How am I at fault? What is this saying about me?? What can I do to make myself feel better?"

I don't like to feel dependent on anyone for my emotional state. I feel immense freedom in letting things go and not having expectations. This is a discipline that I have built up over time, however. I wasn't always like this.

Sometimes vibes get to me and I wish the person would stop giving me a nasty feeling, but I don't consider the problem to be about them.

If it's about them, I can't change it.

If it's about me, I can change it. I can move away, block it from my mind, think about other things....I don't consider that repression. More like choice. I am not at the mercy of everything negative that comes my way...none of us are....we can all pick and choose where to put our focus.

quote:

---

I have read that the best way to work with this energy is to do some sort of marcial arts, or yoga as it works with both planets. a way to armonize them..

---

I like that! Yeah, I keep meaning to get into yoga...

quote:

---

this aspect works well when used to fight for the collective. this energy cannot be limited to assert for your needs, it need to integrate collective survival needs.

---

I feel that way, yes.

quote:

---

if you side with being very civilized, you may disown your pluto and you can become passive-aggresive.

---

I don't relate to that term, passive-aggressive. I think am either one or the other. People who think I'm being passive-aggressive are usually just misunderstanding me. And that only happens online. For instance in the middle of an argument I once started asking questions like, "Do you think I'm always like this? What else have I done that bothers you? When did it start?" In my mind, these were very humble questions, the voice in my head was gentle and simply curious. The person, however, thought I was antagonizing and challenging them...as if the voice in my head was hostile and defensive.

Online...

quote:

---

the mars pluto need a fight that is beyond his own needs and problems...

---

True. I do feel that.

quote:

---

I hope you find these comments helful..

---

Yes! You're inspiring, so clear-sighted about astrology. I enjoyed your comment very much.

posted April 17, 2016 11:02 PM            

Having a perfect balance on an empathic level, would probably lead us to an understanding that - even someone who appears like "your worst enemy" is actually *you*, and you are *them* - so we could be loving/accepting...and treat each other as we'd like to be treated.

posted April 18, 2016 12:47 AM            

I *really* wish we'd been able to sort things out. I miss her, and my mother wouldn't have gone downhill.

posted April 18, 2016 01:02 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I think you don't give yourself or others enough credit then? Your sweetness is pretty obvious.

---

I worry about not giving people enough credit. I just find that when I do (and relax), that's when something happens. I usually try to give the benefit of the doubt, but I've been feeling pretty raw. But thank you for the compliment.

I've been attacked often enough, and had so many awful things said about me, assumptions made, etc, that I just don't know, anymore. I've learned to hold a grudge.

posted April 18, 2016 01:58 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
I mean their usual temperament is abrasive, cold, confrontational.

I have seen a bit of this with Aries & Aquarius suns, though these suns can also be perfectly kind.

Just wondering if any natal aspects will create a greater likelihood of it.

Pluto square ASC?

---

posted April 18, 2016 09:45 AM            

Sorry for your troubles

posted April 18, 2016 09:50 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Odette:
Imo a lack of balance between affective and cognitive empathy, can make just about all of us come across in this hostile way at times.

Having a perfect balance on an empathic level, would probably lead us to an understanding that - even someone who appears like "your worst enemy" is actually *you*, and you are *them* - so we could be loving/accepting...and treat each other as we'd like to be treated.

Easier said than done...

---

posted April 18, 2016 12:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:

Thanks Elysia, God bless you and your mystery moon (I don't even know the sign!!!) as well.

---

Oh hey!

posted April 18, 2016 12:54 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by teasel:

I've been attacked often enough, and had so many awful things said about me, assumptions made, etc, that I just don't know, anymore. I've learned to hold a grudge.

---

Yeah, teasel... The people who believe you will believe you no matter what and those who don't, won't.. Haven't seen explanations (however well-intended) do much good in this area..

posted April 18, 2016 01:48 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by nordicsoul:
ha ha.. i have similar placement and i get very irritated when people try eithe to manipulate me or to bossy me.. moon-pluto square, moon sextile saturn, moon-uranus square. uranus in 5th... LOL

---

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
@Hanna

Thanks for your reply, I have known other Aries people like that. (Hence my OP). I respect it, even though sometimes I'm shocked.

I think that's why people say Aries is intuitive. Aries will just SAY what is going on, instead of sugar-coating it or pretending it's not happening for politeness' sake. So they uncover "hidden" things.

---

@NordicSoul - I have Moon / Uranus too! Didn't even consider that, and an 11H stellium. Yeah I've never understood manipulation! The energy and forethought it takes.... psychopaths.

posted April 18, 2016 02:08 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
^^ That was just a wild guess I made, Pluto square ASC...and apparently it was wrong.

---