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Author Topic:   What Astrology Is and What it is Not
Kannon McAfee
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From: Portland, OR - USA
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posted July 21, 2016 02:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kannon McAfee     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
A lot of folks seem to be asking questions of astrologers in the vein of 'what's going to happen to me?' Astrology is not a fortune telling device -- unless you're wanting to pretend that you have no control in your life, that it is just somehow happening to you.

Why not pretend instead that you chose these astrological factors in your birth chart when you were in a wiser place you've long forgotten, that life on earth is a challenging journey, that you are the lead character and are writing the story, and gain strength by becoming your own hero in that story?

Astrology is a collection of (planetary, zodiacal) energies that work upon consciousness, which means we can use our consciousness to direct these energies within ourselves and our lives in a constructive and more enlightened manner. THAT is what creates our outcomes.

An astrologer is not supposed to know your outcomes for you. YOU create them!

So as we elevate our consciousness to an understanding that our material circumstances are created by consciousness, and consciousness can be used -- and is constantly used by people everywhere -- to redirect these energies for better outcomes, then we see we are at the center of our own astrological influences and have always been in charge.

All this gains its sweetest purity when guided towards some version of the ideal of Unconditional Love (Compassion).

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2016 03:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
THANK YOU!

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Vajra
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posted July 21, 2016 03:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Valentine
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posted July 21, 2016 03:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Valentine     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also thank you. This explanation was needed.

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted July 21, 2016 04:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
But I like to think it can be a future-predicting, event-predicting tool.

In fact I've seen some evidence that in the right hands, it is just that.

Sure it helps to always be emotionally centered, but if you are curious about tomorrow's circumstances...astrology can help. It really can.

quote:
....unless you're wanting to pretend that you have no control in your life, that it is just somehow happening to you.

That is partly true. Life is happening to me, it is unfolding beyond my control and permission.

I don't want the illusion of total control.

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Libracorn
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posted July 21, 2016 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Libracorn     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Worddddd!!!

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2016 04:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it can predict probabilities, but not certainties!

Well the kind of energies it describes are CERTAIN, but how we give them expression, is to a part at least up to us.

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Faith
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posted July 21, 2016 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
edit - How do I phrase this...I want to believe in certainties. (And I know some people equate that with me saying, "I want to believe in fairy tales"...but I'm hoping others have a Peter Pan mentality like I do and will come along for an adventure in speculating, anyway. )

I remember Linda Goodman talking about some hero Virgo astrologer who tried to impress his Virgo date by predicting when she would get hiccups, and when there would be an accident down the road, and other circumstances. TRUE, as the masters of our fate, we can control our reactions to the hiccups and accident, but the main question is: Was that even a true story?

DID the astrologer predict that or was Linda fabricating or exaggerating stuff to sell books?

Did Grant Lewi predict his own death or bring it on himself via self-fulfilling prophecy or neither? http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/lewi.html

Just wondering what people's opinions are.

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Gemini Blues
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From: The future... or the past. I get them confused...
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posted July 21, 2016 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Gemini Blues     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I could predict the tide, and sail my ship accordingly. But I can not say with certainty that my ship will or will not sink. I can only respond to the conditions.

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Randall
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posted July 21, 2016 04:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Do you recall where Linda wrote that? She believed in free-will even to the extent that if we learn about our charts, we can rise above them. She also felt Love could erase Karma, that forgiveness could break Karmic chains, and that Astrology cannot predict death.

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Vajra
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posted July 21, 2016 04:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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nordicsoul
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posted July 21, 2016 04:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nordicsoul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
excellent Kannon!

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Faith
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posted July 21, 2016 04:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
Do you recall where Linda wrote that? She believed in free-will even to the extent that if we learn about our charts, we can rise above them. She also felt Love could erase Karma, that forgiveness could break Karmic chains, and that Astrology cannot predict death.

Just found it, p. 578 of Love Signs (free online, just scroll down to the section on Virgo Woman with Virgo Man).
http://www.my-ab.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Linda-Goodman-Love-Signs.pdf

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Faith
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posted July 21, 2016 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
^Faith...
do you seriously think someone could predict a hiccup?! Impossible of course.

Why is it impossible?

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nordicsoul
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posted July 21, 2016 04:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for nordicsoul     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
in my opionion there are many layers of manifestation of "events" depending on how someone is managing energies..

astrology tells about energies, but cannot say how the person is using that energy and therefore the OUTCOME. I have seen examples of people with very similar charts and one becoming a serial killer while the other a civil right defender. we all have seen these examples here and there.

The probability of predicting an event when certain energy patterns are present are more aligned to the level of consciusness of people. lets say the more people as unconscious of the how to manage the energies, the more likely the manifestation is very concrete (for example mars-uranus and accident prone) but uranus-mars is not necesarily about causing accidents, but if the archetypical energy is not directed toward the direction these planets are pointing out, then accidnets come, but it is not a sine qua non situation. it is a potential manifestation when the person is unaware how to master uranian energy..just to give an example..

I totally agree with Kannon post. I second it entirely.

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2016 05:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:

Why is it impossible?


Because there is no asteroid "Hiccup"?

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted July 21, 2016 05:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ceridwen:
Because there is no asteroid "Hiccup"?

Welllll but what if there is a conjunction of

2220 HICKS and
2868 UPUPA

making a Hicksupupa (sounds like a hiccup)?

What then?

#Possible

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted July 21, 2016 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Welllll but what if there is a conjunction of

2220 HICKS and
2868 UPUPA

making a Hicksupupa (sounds like a hiccup)?

What then?

#Possible


#Capricorn issues

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted July 21, 2016 05:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Soooo truuuuuuee

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Aunt Anomalia
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posted July 21, 2016 05:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Aunt Anomalia     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If I can't predict things with astrology then I'm getting out of here...

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Ceridwen
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posted July 21, 2016 05:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ceridwen     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Welllll but what if there is a conjunction of

2220 HICKS and
2868 UPUPA

making a Hicksupupa (sounds like a hiccup)?

What then?

#Possible



I do not want to derail the thread - but you KNOW I am going to check this!

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Vajra
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posted July 21, 2016 05:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Vajra
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posted July 21, 2016 05:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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Faith
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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted July 21, 2016 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:

And I think that, besides the fact that such minute events as hiccups are not possible to capture with the tools available to the astrologer

When was that ever attempted and disproven in a meaningful way?

quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
....the likelihood of the prediction of a hiccup that is received by the subject from an astrologer inducing a hiccup by way of self-fulfilling prophesy is probably far greater than the likelihood of such a prediction being correct in the first place.

?

Just because the placebo effect has scientific credo and astrology does not?

quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
Linda actually held that astrologers can kill people by giving them death predictions, causing them to (subconsciously) comply. She took a very stern view of this, calling it a terrible sin. Linda was very conscious of the suggestive power of astrology and of the ethics required to practice it beneficially.

Both can be true, though.

It can be true that death predictions work like voodoo and induce death.

It can also be true that astrologers can predict hiccups.

They are mutually exclusive.

And you wouldn't outright call Linda a liar, with the hiccup story, would you? Now that you believed her about the death-voodoo stuff, which is arguably just as incredible? Why pick and choose?

Sorry for being difficult but I know you give worthwhile answers.

quote:
Originally posted by Vajra:
One should always keep in mind that things can happen materially, as external events; purely internally/psychologically; or medically or on some other layer.

Wouldn't it be evident from event charts? For instance, an important transiting conjunction affects the native...we look at when the conjunction becomes exact in that person's location. Where does it fall?

MC or ASC -> likely to manifest outwardly
4H -> likely to manifest at home
8H -> likely to manifest psychologically

Seems that might work?

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 20055
From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted July 21, 2016 06:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Aunt Anomalia:
If I can't predict things with astrology then I'm getting out of here...


Yeah

I got your back.

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