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Author
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Topic: WEED vs. ALCOHOL
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Coffee
Knowflake Posts: 384
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 25, 2009 07:53 PM
 
Legalising is an option. It is easy to see the benefits of doing so. I guess the point Im trying to make is: dont you think our governments would have done something like this before?IP: Logged |
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Knowflake Posts: 163
From: The Strand
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 26, 2009 02:53 AM
Katatonic - you have valid points but my state is proof partially of how it didn't work. Growers just used it as a base to distribute marijuana to other states where it was illegal and still supplied users in my home state. Maybe if it was decriminalised in the whole country, it might work but I really can't see it getting up because the states are so all different in personality and it would require legislative change in each state or at least some sort of federal referendum which would be impossible to get up. It still doesn't sort out the supply issue unless as you put it, legitimate business gets involved. Maybe they wouldn't want to. IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 434
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 26, 2009 11:49 AM
oh, they would want to! that is the downside really, since we know how they go about business. but maybe at first at least they wouldn't be quite so heavy on the ads/ brainwashing. we have 13 states with legal medical now. i was watching a program the other day about the "biz" in mendocino county, ca, where 60% of the income comes from pot farming!because of the RESTRICTED legality the growers are still open to prosecution and invasion by gangs from mexico who find state land to grow on! and bring their guns into the picture. there are people there turning $100K a year crops! so it is not a SIMPLE solution but considering that the stuff really does grow like a weed i don't think it would take too long before it was everywhere, which would force the price down and take away some of the motive for gangs... IP: Logged |
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Knowflake Posts: 163
From: The Strand
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 26, 2009 08:52 PM
Well again it's an issue of pragmatics v moralism. Again, if it is legalised, it might give the average person the idea that smoking dope is a good thing in general or at least acceptable. Maybe it can be legalised but I'd heavily, heavily tax it if it were me. Cigarettes have been taxed to almost out of existence in combination with a very strong anti-smoking campaign/education. Unfortunately the young ones substitute smoking now for dope. Drugs are drugs in the end, they are not to be used lightly. IP: Logged |
Benedict Moon*
Knowflake Posts: 88
From: formerly Dulce Luna
Registered: May 2009
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posted May 26, 2009 09:14 PM
I'm actually all for legalizing it, but with taxation.....it would make up for hole in our wallets that goes to this Useless War (on Drugs) via taxes anyways. Yeah, I'm on the pragmatic side of this. If people want to get stoned out in the comfort of their own home, that's their business. I don't see much difference between that and being wasted out of their mind from alcohol. IP: Logged |
Valus
Knowflake Posts: 340
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 02:41 AM
It just shouldnt be a legal matter at all. It's degrading and ridiculous for the government, and other non-users, to imagine that they have the right to set boundaries on things like this. Human beings have a right to experiment with states of consciousness, just as we've been doing since before we were human beings. Marijuana is very far from presenting the kind of danger that requires legislation. I'll bet half the kids in America were fed cereal this morning that's more toxic than an inhaled gram of marijuana. The only real reason its illegal is because it poses a threat to the "dominator culture" and promotes a more relaxed approach to life. Coffee is a much harder drug, but it is a mainstay in our culture because it promotes that aggressive, competitive, get-up-and-go mentality that keeps people working sh!tty jobs and fighting sh!tty wars without ever asking themselves, "hey, what the hell are we doing here, anyway?" Coffee discourages calm moods of self-reflection (the type induced by marijuana, particularly pure sativa strains), while encouraging the restless, irritable, competitive attitudes that modern work environments thrive on. Unless you are making billions off of this system, or completely hypnotized by propaganda, then legalizing marijuana is really a no brainer; particularly if you are in favor of keeping coffee and alcohol legal. This is as basic and simple as it gets. If you think marijuana should be illegal, I'd hate to hear your opinions on anything more complicated than this.
IP: Logged |
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Knowflake Posts: 163
From: The Strand
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 03:29 AM
You can choose to use or not, yet it is my tax dollars that will pay for your addiction (with the assumption that we live in the same country even though we don't). How can I not have an input in legislation like this?? I also remind you that I have the right right to vote in my country and thus I can put a government in and IT makes the decisions. I expected this kind of response from you Valus. Just negate anyone who potentially doesn't agree with you because they are non-users. PS My own views are not on the basis of propoganda but what I have seen from my own eyes in reality and from what friends that have used have told me. IP: Logged |
Dervish
Knowflake Posts: 43
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 04:27 AM
Just for the record, I've seen quite a bit, too, which have shaped my views quite differently.And I believe paying taxes is evil when it funds dropping toxins down on peasant farmers, when the DEA drag cancer patients from their death beds to choke on their own vomit in a prison cell, and when many innocents (this includes those who aren't drug users) are shot, sometimes to death, by drug warriors (as paying taxes without complaint, even with a twisted pride, is aiding & abetting in unconscionable acts, putting forth your energy into it, and reaping the karma of it). Or kids turned into hardened, bitter criminals because they experimented. The war on drugs is far more evil and harmful to society than drugs could ever be. In addition, the war on drugs makes drugs themselves more harmful to society, too. Granted, when it comes down to reason vs. morality, morality is gonna win...no matter how badly & many innocent people will lose. By morality, I don't mean "treating people decently," but in the belief that "certain behaviors must be prescribed or prohibited violently." IP: Logged |
wheels of cheese
Knowflake Posts: 80
From:
Registered: May 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 08:33 AM
quote:
Human beings have a right to experiment with states of consciousness
Totally agree.  IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 434
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 11:26 AM
you are paying taxes to support the "war" on drugs already. which is a complete farce and bring no revenue to the citizens but does line the pockets of the corruptible on the forces involved.the reason it is illegal is nothing to do with morality. hemp was our first billion-dollar crop, back in '37. shortly thereafter dupont (chemicals) got into the plastics market and realized that their profits would be minimized by the use of hemp for plastics (which by the way are biodegradable) and other products we now make from trees, oil, other slow-to-replace resources. by a funny coincidence dupont money financed the scare-movies, reefer madness etc AND the campaign in congress to criminalize hemp production and inhalation! IP: Logged |
cpn_edgar_winner
Knowflake Posts: 325
From: Toledo, OH
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 12:23 PM
isn't it always about the money?and what a waste of taxpayers resourses. some guy, convicted child sex offender, is being questioned in the disappearance of a 5 year old little girl. he served 4 years for penetrating a minor from 2002-2006.
drug offender spend more time behind bars than people who destroy childrens lives? this child might not be alive right now...and they have time to chase pot smokers, who are otherwise law abiding citezins? something is wrong with this picture. meanwhile the drug addicted masses are legally obtaining thier drug of choice from thier doctor, every 30 days. the drug trend is totally prescription drug addiction now. i challenge you to go to any addiction board and look, the addiction on drugs is now legal drugs prescribed by thier doctors making thier lives unmanageble. go look at the boards, it's xanax, oxycontin, valium, soma, vicodin, percocet that people are addicted to and seeking addiction help from the clutches of. law enforcements job is to protect and serve. i say they need to get to doing just that. some get it confused. a majority of the voters have decided they don't want thier money spent on this. coffee should be illegal? wow. so then should chamomile, st. johns wort, black cohash and other herbal remedies and teas. they call it weed, because it just grows. nature made this drug, not man. should native american indians have been thown in jail and fined for peyote use? how is xanax for anxiety better than pot which grows naturally? IP: Logged |
katatonic
Knowflake Posts: 434
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 01:23 PM
exactly, cpn. i noticed years ago that though in my youth i took every conceivable ILLEGAL drug, i ended up addicted to none, while my mother (steroids and painkillers) and my sister (antidepressants and painkillers) were longterm prescription drug addicts...IP: Logged |
Coffee
Knowflake Posts: 384
From: Leeds
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 01:35 PM
quote:
You can choose to use or not, yet it is my tax dollars that will pay for your addiction (with the assumption that we live in the same country even though we don't).
Doing it the sensible way  should drugs be legal and the government tax it, the money earned from tax and/or the profit should go straight back into that area, but for users who want to get off it. If you buy the drugs, you pay for people who need help to get off it. If you dont buy them, you dont pay. I dont really like paying for someone else to bring up a child etc etc and see it as pretty silly for us all to do this. For many different things too. There are other options, but legalising drugs is far away in my home country.
I think cannabis should be illegal, it will do damage. Saying that, while other drugs including tobacco and alcohol are legal, it is stupid to keep cannabis illegal.
IP: Logged |
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Knowflake Posts: 163
From: The Strand
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 05:39 PM
There is an error in what I said last night. It should read: quote:
You can choose to use or not, yet it is my tax dollars that will pay for your addiction rehabilitation
And the point of the comment is that it p*sses me off that Valus makes such exclusionary comments about non-users. I've got a right to say what I want on this issue as a non-user and legislate if I was in the Executive. Not sure if any of the comments followed from others was related to what I said. Illegal or legal, I don't know what the solution is. I'm just going to be repeating arguments again and say that it's just best to stay away from this stuff. Anyway, having coffee banned means that we have a certain member banned. I'd rather have him than not. IP: Logged |
Valus
Knowflake Posts: 340
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 06:13 PM
quote:
Just for the record, I've seen quite a bit, too, which have shaped my views quite differently.And I believe paying taxes is evil when it funds dropping toxins down on peasant farmers, when the DEA drag cancer patients from their death beds to choke on their own vomit in a prison cell, and when many innocents (this includes those who aren't drug users) are shot, sometimes to death, by drug warriors (as paying taxes without complaint, even with a twisted pride, is aiding & abetting in unconscionable acts, putting forth your energy into it, and reaping the karma of it). Or kids turned into hardened, bitter criminals because they experimented. The war on drugs is far more evil and harmful to society than drugs could ever be. In addition, the war on drugs makes drugs themselves more harmful to society, too.
Dervish quote:
you are paying taxes to support the "war" on drugs already. which is a complete farce and bring no revenue to the citizens but does line the pockets of the corruptible on the forces involved.
the reason it is illegal is nothing to do with morality. hemp was our first billion-dollar crop, back in '37. shortly thereafter dupont (chemicals) got into the plastics market and realized that their profits would be minimized by the use of hemp for plastics (which by the way are biodegradable) and other products we now make from trees, oil, other slow-to-replace resources.by a funny coincidence dupont money financed the scare-movies, reefer madness etc AND the campaign in congress to criminalize hemp production and inhalation!
katatonic
IP: Logged |
Valus
Knowflake Posts: 340
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 06:14 PM
quote:
you are paying taxes to support the "war" on drugs already. which is a complete farce and bring no revenue to the citizens but does line the pockets of the corruptible on the forces involved.
the reason it is illegal is nothing to do with morality. hemp was our first billion-dollar crop, back in '37. shortly thereafter dupont (chemicals) got into the plastics market and realized that their profits would be minimized by the use of hemp for plastics (which by the way are biodegradable) and other products we now make from trees, oil, other slow-to-replace resources.by a funny coincidence dupont money financed the scare-movies, reefer madness etc AND the campaign in congress to criminalize hemp production and inhalation!
cpn "coffee should be illegal?" Says who?  quote:
how is xanax for anxiety better than pot which grows naturally?
Good question. I'd like to see someone who thinks it is better attempt to answer you on that one. Benzodiazapenes are among the most addictive, if not the most addictive, substances known to man. My friend who prescribes medication rarely, if ever, prescribes these meds, which, from her studies, she knows, operate almost exactly the same as alcohol. I've heard they are harder to withdraw from than heroin, cocaine, and alcohol. And to imagine, in most cases, the tax-payers are supporting use, addiction, and rehabilitation, in the case of these legal drugs. I dont know anyone who has needed or sought rehab for pot use. Usually, if they want to quit, they just quit. I've seen lots of people give it up "cold turkey". I can't say the same about any other drug.
IP: Logged |
Lyra
Knowflake Posts: 6
From: London, UK
Registered: May 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 06:35 PM
I'm with alcohol all the way - I just naturally lean towards it more - although I rarely drink - prob have a drink (like, 1 unit) 1x every 3 months or so. I seem to appropriate it for medicinal purposes - last but one time I imbibed was to calm my nerves after I had a sandwich thrown at me on the tube. Never taken recreational drugs. Idea of taking drugs freaks me out, I am fairly particular about what I put into my body & don't even like to take prescription drugs unless I have to (they bring me out in a rash) as I'm really finely tuned to pick up changes in myself. Basically I like being in control of my faculties, and exercising self-control, I like to be alert and aware, and I like to think that facets of my personality come from the genuine "me", they are the real "me" and not the product of anything I've imbibed/inhaled, or otherwise. The war on drugs/alcohol abuse starts with ourSELVES, and the question of WANT. If so many people didn't want this stuff, or so much of it (or only used these substances for medicinal purposes, which is what they're SUPPOSED to be used for), there wouldn't be all these problems, right? (Seems bleedin' obvious!) But that's humanity for you, and far be it from me to tell other people how to think or act. They need to figure it out for themselves. IP: Logged |
Quinnie
Knowflake Posts: 35
From:
Registered: Apr 2009
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posted May 27, 2009 07:09 PM
Hmmm Once again I think this is a social issue.I HATE completely drugs including weed and alcohol. There are too many listless people using this stuff, failing their families and responsibilities and this I believe is way above and beyond the number who use it and still achieve. The issue with weed, blow, hash, marjuana is what dealers are actually selling to people. Yes they might call it 'weed' but is the consumer sure they are not inhaling,injesting a little rat poisoning or horse tranquiliser mixed with a little hash?...
The people who achieve well and make money (quite alot of it if you use Richard Branson as an example) are more than likely buying and using purer stuff than the average Joe who is hooked on this non-addictive stuff.
And rather than being concerned about the effects that weed is having on people, think about the effects other possible ingredients could be having on them. It doesn't matter if they are legalised or not they will still cause problems and dealers will still continue to sell dodgy stuff. I don't take drugs and rarely drink but will during celebrations and social occasions.
I doubt that the full effects of weed have been established... as to the amount of deaths attributed to smoking weed... how is that proven? Do the long term effects not prove to be fatal in cases?
Alcohol can take years to harm the body as can smoking cigarettes and drinking 'weed killer' will be fatal as will be a bottle of potcheen. So to the original statement (question?)
weed VS alcohol, I prefer neither and one is not more superior to the other in my eyes. They can both ruin lives and families. IP: Logged | |
Lindaland
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