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Author Topic:   Ron Paul: U.S. Government is More Dangerous than WikiLeaks
listenstotrees
Knowflake

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From: Rivendell
Registered: Apr 2009

posted December 15, 2010 05:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for listenstotrees     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fPsa0DFx1qk

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PlutoSquared
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From: Mars
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posted December 15, 2010 07:19 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PlutoSquared     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Good link.

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Agent_009
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From: Planet Shining
Registered: May 2009

posted December 15, 2010 08:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Agent_009     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've read before, 8-10 years ago...some predictions made by psychics. How the current American Government system will eventually & collapse almost overnight. I cant recall exactly, but the beginning of the end would be indicated by Obama or something. I feel it to be true, as I've been following these so called "conspiracies," since I was in highschool.
It feels like, going into the Age of Aquarius where all will be revealed...Julian Assange is simply a catalyst, cracking open the tip of the iceberg.


[edit]:

To a degree, American Govt's suppression of free speech. http://edition.cnn.com/2010/CRIME/12/08/wikileaks.students/index.html

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jwhop
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Posts: 2759
From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted December 16, 2010 09:24 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LIKE A CONDOM, THE FIRST AMENDMENT CAN'T ALWAYS PROTECT YOU
December 15, 2010


Ann Coulter

First of all, I feel so much more confident that the TSA's nude photos of airline passengers will never be released now that I know the government couldn't even prevent half a million classified national security documents from being posted on WikiLeaks.

President Obama and Attorney General Eric Holder will be getting around to WikiLeaks' proprietor, Julian Assange, just as soon as they figure out which law the New Black Panthers might have violated by standing outside a polling place with billy clubs.

These legal eagles are either giving the press a lot of disinformation about the WikiLeaks investigation or they are a couple of Elmer Fudds who can't find their own butts without a map.

Since Holder apparently wasn't watching Fox News a few weeks ago, I'll repeat myself and save the taxpayers the cost of Holder's legal assistants having to pore through the federal criminal statutes starting with the A's.

Among the criminal laws apparently broken by Assange is 18 U.S.C. 793(e), which provides:

"Whoever having unauthorized possession of, access to, or control over any document, writing, code book, signal book, sketch, photograph, (etc. etc.) relating to the national defense, ... (which) the possessor has reason to believe could be used to the injury of the United States or to the advantage of any foreign nation, willfully communicates (etc. etc) the same to any person not entitled to receive it, or willfully retains the same (etc) ...

"Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both."

As is evident, merely being in unauthorized possession of classified national security documents that could be used to harm this country and publishing those documents constitutes a felony.

There's no exception for albinos with webpages -- or "journalists." Journalists are people, too!

Depending on the facts adduced at trial, there are about a half-dozen other federal laws that might apply to the WikiLeaks document dump, including 18 USC 641, which provides that any person who "receives" or "retains" a "thing of value of the United States" knowing "it to have been embezzled, stolen, purloined or converted" is also guilty of a felony, punishable by up to ten years in prison.

Classified information is valuable government property.

The entire public discussion about prosecuting Assange has been neurotically fixated on the First Amendment, as if that matters. Is Assange a "journalist"? What kind of journalist? Who is a "journalist" in the world of the Internet?

Assange's lawyer, naturally, wraps his client in the First Amendment, saying Assange "is entitled to First Amendment protection as publisher of WikiLeaks."

Even Sen. Diane Feinstein, who wants Assange prosecuted -- bless her patriotic Democratic heart -- has responded to Assange's free speech defense by saying, "But he is no journalist: He is an agitator intent on damaging our government, whose policies he happens to disagree with, regardless of who gets hurt."

All this is completely irrelevant.

New York Times reporters are agitators intent on damaging our government, and they're considered "journalists." That doesn't mean they have carte blanche to hunt endangered species, refuse to pay their taxes or embezzle money. The First Amendment isn't a Star Trek "energy field" that protects journalists from phasers, photon torpedoes, lasers, rockets and criminal prosecutions.

It's possible for the First Amendment to be implicated in a case involving national security information, just as it's possible for the First Amendment to be implicated in a case involving the Montgomery County (Ala.) public safety commissioner.

This isn't that case.

The government isn't trying to put a prior restraint on Assange's publication of the documents, as in the Pentagon Papers case (though it probably could have). It wouldn't be punishing Assange for his opinions. The government wouldn't be prosecuting Assange to force him to give up his sources -- and not only because we already know who his source is (a gay guy in "an awkward place"), but because it simply doesn't matter.

Assange would be prosecuted for committing the crime of possessing and releasing classified national security documents that could do this country harm. The First Amendment has no bearing whatsoever on whether Assange has committed this particular crime, so whether or not Assange is a "journalist" is irrelevant.

The problem here is that people get their information from the media, which is written by journalists, and journalists have spent the last half-century trying to persuade everyone that laws don't apply to them.

If a fully certified, bona fide, grade-A "journalist," rushing to get a story, swerves his car onto a sidewalk and mows down 20 pedestrians, he's committed a crime. It doesn't matter that he was engaged in the vital First Amendment-protected activity of news-gathering.

If Paul Krugman shoots his wife because she's talking too much when he's engaged in the First Amendment activity of finishing another silly column about the economy, he's committed a crime.

Journalists can't run red lights, they can't print Coca-Cola's secret formula, they can't torture sources for information, and -- as Gawker Media recently discovered when it published a story on the new iPhone before it was released -- journalists can't misappropriate lost property.

Fox News' Alan Colmes said he checked with Fox News legal analyst Andrew Napolitano, who told him there's no case against Assange because the government can't punish "the disseminator of information." They should have been on Gawker's legal team!

If Assange had unauthorized possession of any national defense document that he had reason to believe could be used to injure the United States, and he willfully communicated that to any person not entitled to receive it, Assange committed a felony, and it wouldn't matter if he were Lois Lane, my favorite reporter.

As I have noted previously, the only part of the criminal law that doesn't apply to reporters is the death penalty, at least since 2002, when the Supreme Court decided in Atkins v. Virginia that it's "cruel and unusual punishment" to execute the retarded.

Also, journalists can slander people at will. That ought to make them happy.
http://www.anncoulter.com/

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katatonic
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posted December 16, 2010 10:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
but assange is not american. he is not in america. so - as these sex charges are crumbling as we speak - one of the accusers has already left the case - the charges are flimsy at best - the problem is not what to charge him WITH but HOW to get a hold of him. this is where the opinion of people in other parts of the world matters, because extradition is not all that easy. as we saw with roman polanski...

and trust ann coulter to open with a play on the most salacious and flimsiest of objections to the airport scanners, whose pics even if published online would not identify anyone or provide porny satisfaction to anyone either.

go for the bottom feeders instinct every time, ann, obviously there are plenty to lap it up.

has the real thief been arrested and/or charged?

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AbsintheDragonfly
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From: Gaia
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posted December 16, 2010 11:09 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AbsintheDragonfly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/news/why-shouldn-t-freedom-of-the-press-apply-to-wikileaks-20101215

Why Shouldn’t Freedom of the Press Apply to WikiLeaks?
You may not like Julian Assange, but the campaign to silence WikiLeaks should appall you

By Tim Dickinson
December 15, 2010 5:07 PM EDT

Here’s a thought experiment: Imagine for a moment that the quarter of a million secret government cables from the State Department had been leaked, not to Julian Assange of WikiLeaks, but to Bill Keller, the executive editor of the New York Times.

First, let’s state the obvious: The Times would never have returned the confidential files to the Obama administration. Most likely, the newspaper would have attempted to engage with State to try to scrub life- and source- threatening details from the cables — as Assange and his lawyers did.

And if the administration had refused to participate in that effort -- as it did with WikiLeaks? The Times would have done what any serious news organization has the imperative to do: It would have published, at a pacing of its own choosing, any cable it deemed to be in the public interest. In this digital age, it’s likely the Times would have even created a massive searchable database of the cables.

The optics of the information dump would likely have been very different -- overlaid with the Times’ newspaper-of-record gravitas. But the effect would have been identical: Information that the U.S. government finds embarrassing, damning, and even damaging would have seen the light of day.

Now let’s extend the thought experiment:

How would you react if top American conservatives were today baying for Bill Keller’s blood? If Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell had called on Keller to be prosecuted as a “high-tech terrorist”? If Sarah Palin were demanding that Keller be hunted down like a member of Al Qaeda? If Newt Gingrich were calling for the Times editor to be assassinated as an “enemy combatant.”

What if Joe Lieberman, chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, had successfully pressured the Times’ web hosting company to boot the newspaper off its servers? What if Visa, Mastercard, and PayPal suddenly stopped processing subscriptions for the paper?

Imagine that students at Columbia University’s graduate school of international affairs had been warned not to Tweet about the New York Times if they had any hopes of ever working at the State Department.

Imagine U.S. soldiers abroad being told that they’d be breaking the law if they read even other news outlets’ coverage of the Times’ exclusives.

Imagine that the Library of Congress had simply blocked all access to the New York Times site.

You can’t imagine this actually happening to the New York Times. Yet this has been has been exactly the federal and corporate response to Assange and WikiLeaks.

The behavior is outrageous on its face and totalitarian in its impulse. Indeed, we should all be alarmed at the Orwellian coloring of the Obama administration’s official response to the publishing of the cables:

“President Obama supports responsible, accountable, and open government at home and around the world, but this reckless and dangerous action runs counter to that goal.”

Secrecy is openness. What the **** ?!

Listen: You don’t have to approve of Assange or his political views; you can even believe he’s a sex criminal. It doesn’t matter. What’s at stake here isn’t the right of one flouncy Australian expat to embarrass a superpower. It’s freedom of the press. And it’s a dark day for journalists everywhere when the imperatives of government secrecy begin to triumph over our First Amendment.

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katatonic
Knowflake

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posted December 16, 2010 01:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
exactly. great "experiment".

and if the opportunity to remove "sensitive" data had been given the govt they really don't have a leg to stand on. is that true??

because if it is we are back to it being RUMOUR that military operations were jeopardized or COULD BE jeopardized by the earlier leaks,

and the fact that it could have been edited to suit government security requirements means he has committed no heinous crime AT ALL. in fact he could be said to have had APPROVAL before passing the info on.

and in fact, it was the AMERICAN soldier, the AMERICAN newspaper, and the AMERICAN intelligence offices who are to blame if anyone was hurt by these actions.

still in all it would be nice if there were ALSO some outing of truly heinous regimes around the world, not just america.

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jwhop
Knowflake

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From: Madeira Beach, FL USA
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posted December 16, 2010 02:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The little media wh0re solicited, received and disseminated US classified documents.
That's espionage against the United States.

Assange belongs in a federal prison...like Leavenworth.

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AbsintheDragonfly
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From: Gaia
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posted December 16, 2010 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AbsintheDragonfly     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
DOn't get all frothy now Sir Lion...I just wanted to share.

Now What about that bit about the Columbia University grad students being told not to tweet about Wikileaks if they ever want to work at the State Dept.

Don't you have at least the tiniest problem with that?

pretend it's not wikileaks ok? Pretend they're talking about umm....the o'reilly factor or something.

you'd be out there with the bazooka Jwhop.

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katatonic
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From:
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posted December 16, 2010 04:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for katatonic     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
nowhere in the story have i heard of him "soliciting" said info. he RECEIVED it. and whether he belongs in leavenworth or not is a matter for TRIAL, not lynching.

and the first amendment IS threatened whether you like the info spread or not.

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littlecloud
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posted January 09, 2011 05:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for littlecloud     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
a big to Ron Paul.

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