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Author Topic:   Obamacare In Action
Randall
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From: Saturn next to Charmainec
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posted November 02, 2013 05:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
MIAMI (AP) — Dean Griffin liked the health insurance he purchased for himself and his wife three years ago and thought he'd be able to keep the plan even after the federal Affordable Care Act took effect.

But the 64-year-old recently received a letter notifying him the plan was being canceled because it didn't cover certain benefits required under the law.

The Griffins, who live near Philadelphia, pay $770 monthly for their soon-to-be-terminated health care plan with a $2,500 deductible. The cheapest plan they found on their state insurance exchange was a so-called bronze plan charging a $1,275 monthly premium with deductibles totaling $12,700. It covers only providers in Pennsylvania, so the couple, who live near Delaware, won't be able to see doctors they've used for more than a decade.

"We're buying insurance that we will never use and can't possibly ever benefit from. We're basically passing on a benefit to other people who are not otherwise able to buy basic insurance," said Griffin, who is retired from running an information technology company.

The Griffins are among millions of people nationwide who buy individual insurance policies and are receiving notices that those policies are being discontinued because they don't meet the higher benefit requirements of the new law.

They can buy different policies directly from insurers for 2014 or sign up for plans on state insurance exchanges. While lower-income people could see lower costs because of government subsidies, many in the middle class may get rude awakenings when they access the websites and realize they'll have to pay significantly more.

Those not eligible for subsidies generally receive more comprehensive coverage than they had under their soon-to-be-canceled policies, but they'll have to pay a lot more.

Because of the higher cost, the Griffins are considering paying the federal penalty — about $100 or 1 percent of income next year — rather than buying health insurance. They say they are healthy and don't typically run up large health care costs. Dean Griffin said that will be cheaper because it's unlikely they will get past the nearly $13,000 deductible for the coverage to kick in.

Individual health insurance policies are being canceled because the Affordable Care Act requires plans to cover certain benefits, such as maternity care, hospital visits and mental illness. The law also caps annual out-of-pocket costs consumers will pay each year.

In the past, consumers could get relatively inexpensive, bare-bones coverage, but those plans will no longer be available. Many consumers are frustrated by what they call forced upgrades as they're pushed into plans with coverage options they don't necessarily want.

Ken Davis, who manages a fast food restaurant in Austin, Texas, is recovering from sticker shock after the small-business policy offered by his employer was canceled for the same reasons individual policies are being discontinued.

His company pays about $100 monthly for his basic health plan. He said he'll now have to pay $600 monthly for a mid-tier silver plan on the state exchange. The family policy also covers his 8-year-old son. Even though the federal government is contributing a $500 subsidy, he said the $600 he's left to pay is too high. He's considering the penalty.

"I feel like they're forcing me to do something that I don't want to do or need to do," Davis, 40, said.

Owners of canceled policies have a few options. They can stay in the same plan for the same price for one more year if they have one of the few plans that were grandfathered in. They can buy a similar plan with upgraded benefits that meets the new standards — likely at a significant cost increase. Or, if they make less than $45,960 for a single adult or $94,200 for a family of four, they may qualify for subsidies.

Just because a policy doesn't comply with the law doesn't mean consumers will get cancellation letters. They may get notices saying existing policies are being amended with new benefits and will come with higher premiums. Some states, including Virginia and Kentucky, required insurers to cancel old policies and start from scratch instead of beefing up existing ones.

It's unclear how many individual plans are being canceled — no one agency keeps track. But it's likely in the millions. Insurance industry experts estimate that about 14 million people, or 5 percent of the total market for health care coverage, buy individual policies. Most people get coverage through jobs and aren't affected.

Many states require insurers to give consumers 90 days' notice before canceling plans. That means another round of cancellation letters will go out in March and again in May.

Experts haven't been able to predict how many will pay more or less under the new, upgraded plans. An older policyholder with a pre-existing condition may find that premiums go down, and some will qualify for subsidies.

In California, about 900,000 people are expected to lose existing plans, but about a third will be eligible for subsidies through the state exchange, said Anne Gonzalez, a spokeswoman for the exchange, called Covered California. Most canceled plans provided bare-bones coverage, she said.

"They basically had plans that had gaping holes in the coverage. They would be surprised when they get to the emergency room or the doctor's office, some of them didn't have drug coverage or preventive care," Gonzalez said.

About 330,000 Floridians received cancellation notices from the state's largest insurer, Florida Blue. About 30,000 have plans that were grandfathered in. Florida insurance officials said they're not tracking the number of canceled policies related to the new law.

National numbers are similar: 130,000 cancellations in Kentucky, 140,000 in Minnesota and as many as 400,000 in Georgia, according to officials in those states.

Cigna has sent thousands of cancellation letters to U.S. policyholders but stressed that 99 percent have the option of renewing their 2013 policy for one more year, company spokesman Joe Mondy said.

Cancellation letters are being sent only to individuals and families who purchase their own insurance. However, most policyholders in the individual market will receive some notice that their coverage will change, said Dan Mendelson, president of the market analysis firm Avalere Health.

The cancellations run counter to one of President Barack Obama's promises about his health care overhaul: "If you like your health care plan, you'll be able to keep your health care plan."

Philip Johnson, 47, of Boise, Idaho, was shocked when his cancellation notice arrived last month. The gift-shop owner said he'd spent years arranging doctors covered by his insurer for him, his wife and their two college-age students.

After browsing the state exchange, he said he thinks he'll end up paying lower premiums but higher deductibles. He said the website didn't answer many of his questions, such as which doctors take which plans.

"I was furious because I spent a lot of time and picked a plan that all my doctors accepted," Johnson said. "Now I don't know what doctors are going to take what. No one mentioned that for the last three years when they talked about how this was going to work."
http://news.yahoo.com/sticker-shock-often-follows-insurance-cancellation-133652630.html

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Randall
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posted November 03, 2013 02:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Bump for AG.

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AcousticGod
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posted November 03, 2013 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What, in particular, do you want me to know? I don't know what the point is in bumping this.

quote:
"We're buying insurance that we will never use and can't possibly ever benefit from.

This is an opinion, and an unfounded one at that. In the case of any medical emergency, I'm sure these people would both use and benefit from their new insurance. If they'd rather not have insurance, they can go that route as well.

quote:
They can buy different policies directly from insurers for 2014 or sign up for plans on state insurance exchanges. While lower-income people could see lower costs because of government subsidies, many in the middle class may get rude awakenings when they access the websites and realize they'll have to pay significantly more.

If they make more than $80k/year as my article to you stated. The middle class is making less and less these days, so $80k is a pretty high threshold.

quote:
Because of the higher cost, the Griffins are considering paying the federal penalty — about $100 or 1 percent of income next year — rather than buying health insurance. They say they are healthy and don't typically run up large health care costs. Dean Griffin said that will be cheaper because it's unlikely they will get past the nearly $13,000 deductible for the coverage to kick in.

Problem solved. Now lets hope they don't get cancer.

Also, this is an area that Republicans could provide a solution for if they weren't vainly trying to defeat "Obamacare."

quote:
Owners of canceled policies have a few options. They can stay in the same plan for the same price for one more year if they have one of the few plans that were grandfathered in. They can buy a similar plan with upgraded benefits that meets the new standards — likely at a significant cost increase. Or, if they make less than $45,960 for a single adult or $94,200 for a family of four, they may qualify for subsidies.

Oh! It's even higher than $80k. Bonus!

In general, there's more constructive things we both could do with our time than talk about "Obamacare". You're not telling me anything I don't already know, or that I haven't already responded to. Any response I give is inherently moot, because it changes nothing. There's not a difference of perspective here. What you posted here is reality, and I know it to be reality. I'm going to encourage you and any other Republican that has a problem with it to do something constructive rather than simply complaining.

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Randall
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posted November 03, 2013 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The point is the rise in deductible.

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AcousticGod
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posted November 03, 2013 08:59 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I knew about the rise in deductible, and I agree that it's unfortunate.

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Randall
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posted November 03, 2013 09:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
It's also not isolated. Some safety net.

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AcousticGod
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posted November 04, 2013 12:27 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're right. This is not a safety net. The historical liberal desire would have been, but Obama, being pragmatic, tried to use Conservative ideas in constructing the plan.

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Randall
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posted November 04, 2013 05:06 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What conservative ideas? Why don't you just admit the obvious? He lied to get this thing passed.

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jwhop
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posted November 04, 2013 11:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
""We're buying insurance that we will never use and can't possibly ever benefit from..Randall

This is an opinion, and an unfounded one at that. In the case of any medical emergency, I'm sure these people would both use and benefit from their new insurance."..acoustic

You never have to read very far into acoustic's nonsense to find the glaring errors.

OK irrational one. Please supply a list of all the men..past and present who have ever in human history gotten pregnant, needed a gynecologist, a hospital maternity ward for delivery of their baby, pediatric care for their baby, pediatric dentistry for their baby...etc., etc., etc.

The question is acoustic..how long are you going to keep me waiting for that list of men who got pregnant and delivered a baby on planet earth?

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted November 04, 2013 11:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Randall:
What conservative ideas? Why don't you just admit the obvious? He lied to get this thing passed.

Even the MSM admits this. I think it would be kosher for the Low Info voter to at least parrot the MSM

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AcousticGod
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posted November 04, 2013 11:56 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is not the question, Jwhop.

You just made up an imaginary scenario based on what I said, and transparently attempted to make a trap out of it. I don't play by your rules, though, and it's doubtful I ever will.

The man said that he was buying insurance he and his family will never use and can't possibly afford. In your mind he's referring to things he, himself, will never use such as prenatal care or gynecology. In my mind, the rational one, he's talking about insurance he'll never use because the deductible is so high:

    They say they are healthy and don't typically run up large health care costs. Dean Griffin said that will be cheaper because it's unlikely they will get past the nearly $13,000 deductible for the coverage to kick in.

Context means everything, Jwhop. He's simply saying that he doesn't believe his family will have a medical problem in excess of $13,000.

I guess you're going to have to read a little farther into what I write after all, aren't you?

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Catalina
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posted November 04, 2013 03:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Catalina     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Let's see, he is 47, his wife still of childbearing age, so either paying for birth control or maybe needing an ob/gyn and labor room fees...and probably goes to the gyne occasionally if only for the tests she currently pays for...doesn't say what sex those now-covered kids are but I'd bet they go to the docs too. Free preventative doesn't reflect the deductible but does cost money under most old plans...

A 47 year old man may not have heart probs, or diabetes, but statistically both are on the cards. Not really possible tp predict but I guess it's worth the gamble that he won't incur tens of thousands of surgery/hospital fees that way (and get dropped for.preexisting conditions afterwards)

Repeat, the mandate was a Heritage idea included to make the insurance cos. And repubs happier...as Romney explained in Massachussetts "freeloaders cost everyone more ... Now everyone is covered"

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Randall
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posted November 04, 2013 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Except that not eveyone is covered. The mandate is full of exemptions.

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jwhop
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posted November 04, 2013 10:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for jwhop     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
"You just made up an imaginary scenario based on what I said, and transparently attempted to make a trap out of it."..acoustic

So acoustic, you deny single men are required to purchase O'BomberCare policies which have maternity care, pediatric care and pediatric dental care for the babies they have?

And, you deny single men must purchase O'BomberCare policies which cover mammography, mastectomy and hysterectomy?

And, you deny single women must purchase O'BomberCare policies which cover prostate surgery and testosterone injections?

Really acoustic, you deny this?

Now acoustic, where's that list of all the men who have ever, in the history of planet earth, gotten pregnant and given birth to a baby?

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AcousticGod
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posted November 05, 2013 01:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for AcousticGod     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
What do I make of this nonsense?

You clearly did as I said. You took something out of context, and I explained it. Embarrassed smiley is an appropriate reaction from you.

These questions, on the other hand, aren't an appropriate response. Further, we've already gone over the answer to these questions, and you already know where I stand. Why would you ask if I deny something I already acknowledged -when was it?- last week? Yes, the insurance policies are standardized to cover certain things. Just as they were previously. For instance, my policy from work was the same policy available to my male and female co-workers. That it covered gender-specific issues is of little consequence or relevance to anyone. You're trying to make it a soapbox moment. It's not. That's not what the article that started this thread was about.

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