posted April 02, 2009 01:10 AM           

It seems to me that some people who experience depression
emerge with a greater capacity and willingness to empathize
with others who are experiencing similar feelings, --
while many seem to essentially forget how it was for them,
and, instead, just use the experience to bolster their self-image,
and isolate them from the very ones they might empathize with.

Has anyone noticed and wondered about this?

posted April 02, 2009 01:02 PM           

Awww....... HSC, I don't want you to be suicidal...Please don't do anything to yourself. That would make me so sad.

To answer your question, I haven't gotten to the point where I harmed myself but I have mentally destroyed myself during highschool and wanted to die. So I know that feeling....and I don't blame people for feeling that way. But please don't leave us...That would be devastating.

I have also noticed that those who have genuinely experienced suicidal feelings and depression, empathize better...Whereas others would say, "Live life to the fullest." "Why are you depressed?" Like there must be a reason...A lot of times we don't know the reason ourselves...If we knew we would try to fix the problem I think. Or they think we're crazy. My friends used to be like that.

posted April 02, 2009 05:19 PM           

Yes, you would think that people who have been there
would understand that the experience is like Job's --
You are struck down, and cut out from the "normal" flow,
and for no conceivable reason, -- only that it is God's will.
But so many people who claim to have known this experience
still rebuke the depressed person, as Job's friends did.

It is sad.

But its so nice to know there are people
like me and you out there, who remember,
and haven't lost the power to understand.

posted April 02, 2009 07:44 PM           

Just because they are not opening up doesnt mean they lost their power to understand or have bolstered their self-image and are isolating and don't feel for another. For some, it's not their time to talk and they are having quiet time within themselves. Or sharing might make them feel worse. They are still attending to their own wounds.

There are a number of different reasons for people who are not opening up. Is it really that bad that some people might not find it best to talk about such personal things (especially in public) at a certain time in their lives and automatically mean they lost their ability to understand just because they arent sharing their experiences? When people are going through their own things they dont always have it in them to empathize with another. It wouldnt be healthy for them either or helpful to the other person because they are still working through their own issues so what good would they be to another?

posted April 03, 2009 12:10 AM         

In this age of technology, many people spend their day indoors or at a computer. This doesn't help seratonin levels. Also, we need a certain amount of daylight each day for our brain to maintain normal function and this is due to a couple of reasons. Firstly, sleep cylces get affected because our circadian rhythms and sleep responses are tied in with our brain registering a level of daylight which in turn enables us to sleep. When we're inside too much our brain thinks that we don't have to get any sleep even though physically, mentally, and emotionally we may be exhausted.

The second reason why we need to let our brains register outdoors and daytime is so our brain produces melatonin. Melatonin also helps to prevent the blues and is linked to natural cycles as well.

So yeah, dimly lit rooms in the daytime won't help. If you are going to be indoors for most of the day, for most of the week, make sure the areas are brightly lit. Otherwise, and this is the preferable option, get outside for a couple of hours a day. This is why people tend to get down in winter.

posted April 03, 2009 12:25 AM           

I'm talking about people who respond with admonishments,
when they see someone going through what they went through.

posted April 03, 2009 12:53 AM         

Yes.
And dealt (a long time)with one who was thinking about it,
and one who tried just a few weeks ago but failed.

posted April 03, 2009 11:51 PM         

------------------
Sun in Libra
Moon in Cancer
Jupiter in Cancer
Venus in Virgo
Mars in Cancer
Ascendant in Cancer

posted April 04, 2009 01:12 AM         

my mother has a long history of depression and anxiety. She was diagnosed as having both anxiety and depressive disorders. She is a recovering drug addict and alcoholic.

my maternal grandfather committed suicide. He was a lifelong alcoholic.

neurodivergence,ultrasensitivity,alcoholism,and depressions runs in my family.

so yeah...I emphathize a lot with people who have depression

my t-square of Moon in Pisces in 6th square Saturn-Neptune opposition,opposing Saturn/Neptune midpoint indicate that I am very empathic person...especially with people that are sick,suffering.......so I have to really protect myself.

I am preparing for a career as a holistic health practitioner.

I take cod liver oil for my DHA intake for because of my Dyslexia,Dyspraxia,ADHD, and it helps me be less sensitive,emotional and so helps decrease stress and depression....it works better than an SSRI for me....especially with no side effects

as a neurodiversity advocate, I try to raise awareness about how neurodivergents are very susceptible to having anxiety and depression. It's mainly connected to low self esteem and insecurity from feelings of intellectual inadequacy and mental incompetence. That's definitely true for me. Therefore,it's very important that neurodivergents be understood by themselves and others.

Also depression,anxiety,and phobias can be linked to cerebellar vestibular dysfunction aka vestibular disorder,inner ear problems.
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/452b43 d8-437b-48ba-9af3-f2149ec76394
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/280bd4 20-4051-48e1-b741-3ddf04d177d5
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/45c762 ec-0487-4cc0-9b5c-be54e41ecf2d
http://people.tribe.net/4b0cf8c4-1fc3-4171-92d3-b0915985bf95/blog/cf2928 8b-1231-4332-9e23-8cc6d4dfb8d0

posted April 04, 2009 08:37 PM           

Hugs all around.

posted July 21, 2010 11:49 PM         

This topic interests me because right now the only reason Im alive is silly hope and what my death would do to my family, and friends. Ive already made up my mind on this so Im not really trying to debate, but I feel a special connection to Linda's fans, so Id like to hear what they have to say about it no matter how much I disagree. And because this lifetime has become so mundane that I need something to pass the time every second of the day. *shrug I cant lie. Lol I apologize if I seem a little out of it with my typing. Im insane (so I hear) and on two shots of Black Velvet. x_x

Heres the biggest mistake people make. Strength is actually what kills suicidal people—the strong will that can defeat every instinct to live. It is the hardest thing a human can do successfully. Suicide is not a matter of strength. Its a matter of perspective. What pulls people through those times is not strength, but optimism. Hope. From their perspective, they feel like dying, but they still have hope. Something in them tells them to keep going. For the rest, they have none. And no one has the right to impose their perspective on them. They cannot understand, as much as theyd like to think they do. The only people who would really understand are the people who've tried to commit suicide. People say theres always hope. Theres always options. Well, Im sorry, but there isnt. Nobody enjoys feeling suicidal. If there were any hope or other option (Im confused by that—the only option besides dying is.. living, and strangers with doctorates dont count as an option), they would find it and cling to it for dear life—literally. Most suicidal people, Im sure, could easily lay out exactly why their life has no hope left if anyone actually cared to listen instead of just freak the hell out and try to stop them. It would be rare for someone to agree as well.

On that note comes the “emo” stereotype. I dont believe suicidal comments should ever be taken lightly. Even if theyre ******** to get attention, theyre from some kind of pain. Anyone who engages in this behavior needs to be sat down and have those issues addressed. Be aware though, that many of those people really are just masochistic attention ****** . They want nothing but a gross slathering of sympathy and whine about the very pain they are in love with. Usually they wont accept any bit of comfort or help to grow. Rather, they absorb it and ask for more. Plenty exist, and those can be disregarded.

From above, my opinion on shrinks is that, if they help you, thats great, but it would only be from self delusion. They may be compassionate, but they cannot know what you feel, even less than those close to you. They are nothing more than a kind stranger with an education. That is the brutal truth, but I suppose its one of those “good delusions” that happen in life. Good, provided they actually help you, not prolong your suffering or drug you up so youre someone else.

I believe that if suicide is right for you, you will ultimately meet that fate. If it isnt, you wont. The people that got through it were the ones who really did have something to live for. Then there are those who survive, and exist. They dont live. They simply exist. For them, either fear had the strongest foothold in their hearts, or the unbearable pain mutated into numbness and bitterness. We have all seen those people whose lives have been screwed over irreparably. Those who drown in depression, alcohol, drugs, loneliness, who isolate themselves, who hate everything, those bitter old folks, those people who cant even seem to smile. These people are as dead as any suicide victim, but no one ever cares about them. Its been my experience that no one really cares about suicide until it happens. No one really cares how much quality of life a person has, as long as their heart still beats. In fact, these people are usually made fun of. Its also my experience that generally, people accept that they dont know exactly what someone is going through, but the instant that person shows signs of being suicidal, its “I know exactly what youre feeling” or “Ive been there” or some other such nonsense.

Another way of saying this is that everyone (with the exception of those who were influenced by foreign chemicals) who dies of suicide was “meant to”. If you were so filled with darkness that you finally, finally committed the act, your life would not have gone on happily. Im sickened by the people who say they could have “gotten help” and “moved on and lived happy lives”. There is absolutely no way to know that. “What if” machines have not been invented yet. The survivors of suicide attempts are nothing to go by. The emotional shock of surviving such a thing would be enough to jolt nearly anyones mind into a different viewpoint. Its probably the most emotional thing you could experience aside from whatever hell was endured for one to get to that point.

I would make an exception to the “meant to” part for especially impulsive people, but I really dont believe anyone commits suicide impulsively. I believe its something thats wrestled with for many weeks, months, years. Not just “a bad day”. Its against all physical, mental and emotional instinct to take ones own life. The fear of death itself is also a completely human instinct, even if its not our own. I think that instinct is a big part of why we dont like the idea of anyone killing themselves, not even strangers. Pure fear. The concept of death itself is horrifying for some reason that cant really be explained. Most likely its based on the inability to ever come back. I actually think that if suicide were completely legal, there would be less of it. Some of the worst pain from suicide is from the secrecy—not knowing when it happens, and the guilt of feeling like you could have done something that you failed to, and the inability to say your last words, how you really feel. With the protection of the law, there would be no guilt over the act itself, and everyone would get to say their final goodbyes. As I was saying before, the 'shock' of hearing this might be enough to alter the persons point of view.

As far as suicide being selfish, well, I wish the stupidity of that statement was self explanatory. People who kill themselves know very well what kind of impact it will have on their friends and family. Since it is completely against instinct, theyve probably looked for every sign that the people around them really care. If they dont see it, it is not unfounded. Instinct is also the reason that it is ANYTHING but easy to kill yourself. Most methods are not quick, painless or guaranteed. Youre fighting that instinct ingrained even more deeply than your sorrow. Your mind and body will both be battling your will to die, and sadly, they often win, resulting in survival and permanent physical damage in addition to the universe of pain you were already in. Oh, plus whatever punishment the law deals you, from prison to shrinks to psychiatric wards.

So, to me, keeping yourself alive when every day is an eternity of darkness looming over your world, is nothing but masochism. And, usually, people discourage that, too. So, which is it? As any intellectual will tell you, the biggest reason people grieve from a death is purely for themselves. They miss that person. They will never be able to speak to them or see them again. The majority of people are happy with their lives, and in death, are in no pain, so what is all the crying for? Us. There is nothing wrong with that, but grieving is purely for the self. Its my honest opinion that all the fuss that is made over suicide is not for the sake of the person who wants to die. After all, THEY would be happiest DEAD. How much real love (unselfish) is involved varies entirely by the individual. An acquaintance wont really care, but a mother certainly will, or should. Real love will feel compassion for the depressed individual, but because of a belief in hope (not shared) and that selfish desire to keep the person around in their own little bubble of torture, they will recommend “help”. We all know what that means. Doctors. And Ive already expressed my view on them.

As for the marketing that would result from legalization... Im neutral. Suicide is not a luxury. No one will care about designer needles or organic injections (well, some may). Its a decision that will not be taken lightly, as it always has been. The rates of success will remain stable or lower, depending. Unsuccessful attempts will lower dramatically. The overall rate, I believe, would definitely decrease.

Life is worth living, usually. But sometimes, it just isnt, and no one in the world has the right to try and convince anyone otherwise. For the human animal, living requires much more than a body that still runs. When a critical need for such has been taken, life has become a mere physical existence. A clockwork of tissue, blood and bone, cogs and wheels dancing faithfully in rhythm.

------------------
"Among the repulsions of atheism for me has been its drastic uninterestingness as an intellectual position. Where was the ingenuity, the ambiguity, the humanity (in the Harvard sense) of saying that the universe just happened to happen and that when we're dead we're dead?" -John Updike

"The universe is full of magical things, patiently waiting for our wits to grow sharper." -Eden Phillpotts

posted July 23, 2010 02:31 AM         

However, there is an immortal Soul, and this Soul has chosen to incarnate in this 3D World after agreeing to certain rules and regulations, to play a game of experiencing 3D Reality, with laws of Karma.

These Laws FORBID SUICIDE. The consequences of committing suicide are a reincarnation to a lifeline with EVEN TOUGHER challenges that made the individual convince herself to end it all. You can convince everyone on Earth with your philosophy but try out-talking the the lords of Karma and your own Oversoul Council. Those cold emotionless lords of karma will pack you off with machine like efficiency into your next lifeline after extracting the payment of Spiritual Emotional Essence, which is your earnings lost because you went ahead with suicide.
I have past life recall of a lifeline where I did commit suicide but it was an emotional overreaction, and I got a much milder reincarnation. The well read, erudite, philosophical, suicide justifiers who commit the act might get a posting in Darfur, Afghanistan or even medieval Arabia, so that they don't even have the strength to commit suicide. Timelines are not an issue for repaying karma.

Lords of Karma:
"We Captured a Suicider. Let the Oversoul Council of this Soul be summoned.

"Subject given a lifeline in a developed country with good infrastructure and food security and technology. Given a position to help the global poor, and to make a positive difference for others. Subject chose to discard it all with plenty of intellectual excuses."

Soul's Oversoul Council: "We command you to Grant her her wish, give her a life where she has nothing close to this lifeline so that she can master the unfinished lessons of gratitude and the experience of hoping for love/service from others."

Lords of Karma: "Done. Subject Sent to Darfur 2011 timeline".

posted July 23, 2010 08:26 AM         

I hope that your quest with Astrology is a key to open the gateway to knowing your OWN Truth. Because I believe in the Universal Laws of polarity and balance ... for every soul that doesn't SEE and KNOW you, there is always the balance of ONE who does. May you SEE and KNOW and BE this very essence of peace and acceptance, that of which you seek. The seeker is rewarded with clarity of vision, which is WISDOM and UNDERSTANDING. Know thyself, because you are right, no one will ever know how you truly feel...and while this very thought deceptively appears lonely and makes one feel misunderstood ... another angle is that this thought also conveys freedom to create and hold privy our own thoughts. This is our ultimate gift, that our thoughts are very our own. Our innate wisdom tells us that for self preservation, we should protect ourselves from mind control and negativity.

Keep expressing yourself so that you brilliance is not hidden.

posted July 27, 2010 02:59 PM         

Then in high school I took a whole bottle of motrin thinking that would do it. Then I wrote a note to my family and went for a long bike ride because I didn't want my family to see. When I decided to come home because nothing was happening, I went to my room feeling sick and ended up throwing it all up all over my bed. My pupils got big than small, big than small..kind of fast like that. I was scared, but I think the best thing my mom did for me was tell me to clean it up myself (the throw up). She didn't know what I did.

Then when I was 23 and my first ex wanted a divorce I walked to every gas station I came upon and bought vivarin (those little pills that were like caffeine). Then at the last gas station I bought more vivarin and a six pack of beer. I went into the bathroom stall and sat there and took all of the vivarin, washing it down with beer. I thought that would do it for some reason.. All I did was get really really really sick and ended up with the paramedic's at the gas station who took me to the hospital and I had to drink this awful black stuff...

And that was it..