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Author Topic:   What Transits Would Indicate Suicidal Tendencies
hrj777
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posted May 27, 2003 02:02 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Does anyone know what type of transiting aspects to a natal chart might indicate the potential for suicide in someones chart? Would anyone have any death data for Kurt Cobain or even Marilyn Monroe? Sorry it's such a morbid subject but to me it is all part of understanding the cycle of life and death.

Heidi

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sthenri
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posted May 27, 2003 02:19 PM           Edit/Delete Message
I found this link for Kurt Cobain http://www.cafeastrology.com/famouspeople/kurtcobain.html

Speaking objectively, maybe astrologers do not write about suicide because it could hurt their careers. I mean what if you were wrong? It's got to be a tough subject to tackle too.

Here is some info on M.M. http://www.astrodatabank.com/NM/Feedback.asp?ChartID=6125

Natasha

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Lunargirl
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posted May 28, 2003 02:03 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Heidi... just that Saturnian energy, I trust?

Wish I had a less general answer but I would look for indications of depression combined with potentials for violence in transits. If suicide is characterized by a loss of hope and perspective, Neptune and Pluto could be at work.

Hope you'll let us know what you find out... interesting that the two examples you cited are kind of questionable, or at least there is still controversy over whether their deaths were really suicide. Maybe astrological analysis would shed light on what truly happened. I found a link to Celebrity suicides here; http://www.corsinet.com/trivia/2-triv.html, and http://www.hollywoodusa.co.uk/celebrity-death-sites.htm

Lunargirl

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Randall
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posted May 28, 2003 02:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Death can't be predicted from a natal chart. That's my ONION, and I'm sticking to it.

I believe Marilyn Monroe was, shall we say, not a suicide.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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lovely
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posted May 28, 2003 02:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message
i share randall's onion, yep

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hrj777
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posted May 28, 2003 03:08 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Sthenri and Lunargirl for the links.

Randall and Lovely, I absolutely agree with you, death can not be predicted from a natal chart. What I am asking is ... under what planetary influences would someone be more likely to CHOOSE to take their own life? Suicide is a choice ... not something fatalistic like a car accident.

Heidi

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SunShyne
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posted May 28, 2003 03:10 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Welcome!

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Randall
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posted May 28, 2003 04:11 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
Probably something to do with depression (Neptunian in nature)?

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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Venus
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posted May 28, 2003 06:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Everyone
My husband took his own life 6 years ago after suffering with depression on and off for about 4 years,

In his case and this obviosly isn't the same for everyone I feel it was the drugs he was given which changed his condition from depression to a more Psychotic kind of illness. I really beleive that the taking of his own life was out of his control at the time as he wasn't in his own frame of mind - if this makes sense.

I don't mind talking about it and answering any questions if it helps other people either personally or from an Astrological Curiosity so to speak.

Also if anyone would like to look at his chart, just ask cos I don't mind and more importantly I know he wouldn't have minded.

Love Venus

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hrj777
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posted May 28, 2003 07:06 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Thanks Venus,

It is very kind of you to share something with us that is so personal and must be so painful for you. I am so sorry to hear of your tragedy.

If you are willing to share the information on his birth and death, it would mean a lot to me.

I would like to ask you something, and if it is too personal, by all means please just ignore me. I was wondering ... If you knew 6 years ago, what you know now, is there anything different that you might have done to prevent it? Maybe your advice might help someone else who is looking for answers right now.

Love and Light,

Heidi

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Venus
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posted May 28, 2003 07:47 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hello Heidi

I dont mind at all. His birth data is 22th Feb 1952 6pm Bolton, England. We had 18 happy years together and I have 2 beautiful daughters.

When he died he was in hospital. With hindsight I feel the only thing I could have done differently was maybe learn about the drugs he was taking - but I left that to the experts. But who knows it may still have happened anyway.

I really believe the only thing you can do to help someone with a terrible illness such as depression is to give all the love you can and just be there for them. Sometimes that can be very difficult because the illness can make even the most loving and giving person seem very selfish. What you have to remember is that it is the illness which is making them so self absorbed.

Please let me know the results of your findings and if anything I have said has helped you - I do hope so.

Love Venus

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hrj777
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posted May 28, 2003 08:05 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Thank you Venus.

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Lost Leo
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posted May 28, 2003 12:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Kinda scary how Piscean-influenced people have such serious wells of depresion that can result in suicidal tendencies...

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lovely
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posted May 28, 2003 01:05 PM           Edit/Delete Message
((((((venus)))))))

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Lunargirl
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posted May 28, 2003 01:45 PM           Edit/Delete Message
For those interested, there are a few links on suicide and depression over in Health and Healing, although I can't say they all offer astrological insight, per se.

Is there potential for depression? (astro-related) http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000168.html
Serious Depression Help http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000274.html
Why do some souls commit suicide? http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000198.html
Depression... http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum3/HTML/000019.html


Lunargirl

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Venus
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posted May 28, 2003 05:28 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Lost Leo

I myself have Sun Mercury and Venus all in Pisces and have never suffered from depression, although I know a lot of people who have. So if anything is readable from a chart along those lines then I feel it must be Aspects to these Planets.

Sun Sign Astrology will also tell you that Pisces people are weak. I say Neptune influenced people are super sensitive and chanelled in the right direction sensitivity is a strength not a weakness. But I'm far from being an expert, that's why I come hear to learn.

Then again maybe my Leo Ascendant and Sag Moon play a bigger part in the way I am. Who knows.

Anyone like to look at my chart?

Love Venus

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morgana
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posted May 29, 2003 06:29 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Venus Welcome to the site!

Hi everyone!

I seriously thought about suicide many times when I was younger, also in my twenties, but something in me just couldn't let me do it. But I think the main thing that stopped me from committing suicide is learning about karma and knowing that suicide is not the solution to your
problems, they haunt you until you solve them, so you might as well face them in this lifetime to make it easier.
But I still think about it sometimes when it's really rough, but very rarely and it's just a passing thought, so I think I'm cured now. I hope BTW, I have no planets in Pisces.

Boy what a morbid subject


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hrj777
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posted May 29, 2003 06:49 AM           Edit/Delete Message
I thought about it a lot in my twenties Morgana. I only have Saturn and Chiron in Pisces. I think in our case though, since we both have a moon/neptune conjunction in Scorpio ... could that be what makes us overly sensitive and susceptible to those thoughts?

Heidi

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1scorp
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posted May 29, 2003 10:57 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Venus

Regarding the Pisces statement... I know 3 Pisces and none of them are suicidial (spelling?). However, they do tend to go through a deep depression at times. All 3 have become dependant on substances at one point or another.

However, I "believe" (not sure on this) where I'm a scorpio that I tend to help them out a bit. (again ???) I mean, I sit and listen to them and reassure them that they're wonderful people who have taken a couple of wrong turns... as we all do.

From what I've learned from my 3 pisces, is that they have this thing to where they believe no one really cares or understands them. So, they keep quite a bit bottled up and then they slip a little.

As I tell them... no shame in slipping... now, get back on track

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Lunargirl
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posted May 29, 2003 01:43 PM           Edit/Delete Message
Hmmm. I also have Saturn and Chiron in Pisces, and I sure was susceptible to struggles with depression in my late teens and twenties (see the thread "why do some souls commit suicide?"). I have both in the 12th House, too -- ooh, what a party! but I have also had equal joy -- the price, cost and reward of sensitivity. But doesn't Chiron in this position also indicate a way to heal this very challenge?

Some of the characteristics of depression are that it is a problem of the spirit, often hidden, internal. Thus it makes sense for me for Pisces/Neptune to be involved. Also, Pisces the Dreamer, may dream of escape, a false karmic illusion -- more Neptune.

The world needs a course in Neptune 101.

IMHO

Lunargirl

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morgana
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posted May 31, 2003 04:36 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Heidi

I have a Moon-Neptune (plus Jupiter) conjunction, but my Neptune is already in Sagittarius, so that makes me, I'm told, a bit more optimistic. I think my hiper-sensitive Scorp Moon and Cancer Sun are causing this, and I do have a very strong Saturn, but my depressions, thank god/dess, end very quickly, I'm sure they can't compare to "real" ones. I have these very low down, but they soon turn into high(er)s, so that may be one of the reasons I never did commit suicide. I guess I'm too spiteful for that. In the last moment, something in me just doesn't let me give safisfaction to whatever or whomever is giving me grief

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hrj777
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posted June 01, 2003 02:01 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Hi Morgana, Hi Lunargirl,

Yes a class in Neptune 101 would be really nice. I have always felt like having Neptune conjunct my moon is like a horse walking around with blinders on. Or maybe wearing reading glasses that are out of focus. I have only found a few books on Neptune and none that I particularly cared for. I wonder, does Liz Greene have a book on Neptune?

Took a look at my progressed chart recently and discovered I have sun, moon, mercury, mars, saturn and chiron all in Pisces right now. That explains the "dazed and confused" state of mind right now.

Love and Light,

Heidi

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morgana
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posted June 01, 2003 05:21 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Haha, and my progressed Moon is in Capricorn

Are you alright, Heidi?

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Randall
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posted June 01, 2003 06:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Randall     Edit/Delete Message
But don't forget the wonders Neptune can do when harnessed properly. You are here to do just that.

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"Never mentally imagine for another that which you would not want to experience for yourself, since the mental image you send out inevitably comes back to you." Rebecca Clark

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hrj777
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posted June 01, 2003 07:07 AM           Edit/Delete Message
Thanks for asking Morgana. Yes I am OK, just a little overwhelmed by the Neptunian influences in my life right now. You could say I am disillusioned with myself and the world at the moment.

Randall, can you tell me how to harness the positive powers of Neptune? I have yet to see any good in Neptune at all. At least Pluto has a purpose ... it destroys anything that is of no value any longer in order to create something better. What does Neptune do except distort our perception of reality?

Heidi

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