posted December 26, 2010 02:36 PM            

I'm not going to go back and forth. That wasn't the intention of this thread.

posted December 26, 2010 02:39 PM            

Whenever I read threads like this, I find myself analyzing my own behavior patterns because I want to know if they are describing me. Then I go on to do further research if a light bulb goes off.

posted December 26, 2010 02:54 PM            

I had this propensity to over-compensate for the shortcomings of others in a relationship and I attracted the worst kind of sociopath to me.

The only upside of it was that it showed me I couldn't have a fulfilling relationship if I was not whole myself. And as I began to nurture myself, those toxic relationships began falling away.

Hard lesson, but had to learn it.

It's amazing at times, how much difference the right mental attitude can make in attracting loving relationships.

posted December 26, 2010 04:00 PM            

I'm responding here, solely because of something I wrote last night, in another thread on sociopaths. I had experiences early on, that left me wary of jumping into relationships, and needing to have a man in my life; in fact, my parents once asked me if I was gay, because I wasn't like other girls my age (or almost any age), primping, flirting, and pining over boys. I might temporarily see myself as a victim, when I'm feeling very hurt, but more than anything I will end up feeling angry with myself, for not paying attention to my intuition and ignoring any red flags - that usually happens, when I'm afraid of pushing someone away for no reason, that maybe I'm just paranoid and too self-protective.

I have a good match of agreeableness and assertiveness. Assertiveness can turn into aggressiveness when I have just had it - and this year takes the cake in certain ways - I've given too much, and I've taken more than I feel comfortable with (where family is concerned, although I give back there, as well), but it always balances out. The same thing happened seven years ago, and was very freeing - different circumstances, but the anger was centralized, and I had to defend myself several times, when someone was messing with my family (someone very close to me, trying to force a wedge there, knowing they had a hold of said family member). P**sed me off something rotten.

So, you're preaching to the choir here. (I don't see myself here, for the most part: I feel remorse, empathy, and my own pain. Sometimes I wonder if I'm picking up on other people's pain, when I have no reason to be feeling low - that's happened to me before. I'm well aware of how I've screwed up my own life - when I have - and last year, rather than tell someone that I would always be there for them, I told them that I trusted them to get the help they needed; they didn't get that help, got into drugs - amongst other things - and hurt me. So I told them where to go.)

posted December 26, 2010 07:18 PM            

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What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted December 26, 2010 07:20 PM            

quote:

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Personality disorders, co-dependents, and those who are suffering from other mental disorders are truly in need of professional help. If you know someone like this, suggest that they find professional help. No one should be expected to become a "source" of therapy, healing, and supply for someone else's mental health.

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Absolutely and worth the repeat.

------------------
What we do for ourselves dies with us. What we do for others and the world is immortal"~

posted December 26, 2010 07:50 PM            

That's true. And, it's up to us to set boundaries and redirect our attention, so that we can keep ourselves happy, entertained, participating in a way that puts our time here on earth to the best personal use.

posted December 27, 2010 10:32 AM            

Enablers are the worst enemies of the very people they love the most. Enablers are those of us who take the responsibility to protect other people from pain. If someone near us feels down or unhappy, we believe it is out job to make them feel better. Despite our good intentions, our enabling has a negative side. In protecting others from pain, we also shield them from a marvelous teacher and motivator - experience. We prevent them from taking responsibility and from living with the consequences of their decisions. When enablers, even motivated by love, gallop onto the scene, they deprive their loved ones of the motivation they might need to make some changes.

Recovery requires change, and change often begins with a conversion experience. Conversion experiences can be rooted in pain. If we enablers are always there to cushion the fall, how are our loved ones going to meet the concrete? Our own growth might be due to those who loved us enough to let us experience the sometimes painful consequences of our choices or mistakes. We can pass the loving detachment on to others. Enabling, co-dependency and denial are key systemic behaviors that inadvertently support addiction. Following is a description of each. Enabling Behaviors protect the chemically dependent person by: 1. Removing all harmful consequences of the chemically dependent personfs behavior. 2. Assisting the chemically dependent person in denying the significance of their problem behavior by rationalizing or minimizing their addiction.

Examples of enabling behaviors range from overt support for the addiction to more subtle supportive influences. They include:

posted December 27, 2010 10:38 AM            

Codependency describes behavior, thoughts and feelings that go beyond normal kinds of self-sacrifice or care taking. For example parenting is a role that requires a certain amount of self-sacrifice and giving a child's needs a high priority, although a parent could nevertheless still be codependent towards their own children if the care taking or parental sacrifice reached unhealthy or destructive levels.[1] Generally a parent who takes care of their own needs (emotional and physical) in a healthy way will be a better caretaker, whereas a codependent parent may be less effective, or may even do harm to a child.[1]

Codependency does not refer to all caring behavior or feelings, but only those that are excessive to an unhealthy degree.[6] Indeed, from the standpoint of Attachment theory or Object relations theory, 'to risk becoming dependent'[7] may be for the compulsively self-reliant a psychological advance, and 'depending on a source outside oneself...successful, or tolerable, dependence'[8] may be valorised accordingly.

Codependents Anonymous offers these patterns and characteristics as a tool to aid in self-evaluation.[1]

Denial patterns:

I have difficulty identifying what I am feeling.
I minimize, alter or deny how I truly feel.
I perceive myself as completely unselfish and dedicated to the well being of others.

Low self-esteem patterns:

I have difficulty making decisions.
I judge everything I think, say or do harshly, as never "good enough."
I am embarrassed to receive recognition and praise or gifts.
I do not ask others to meet my needs or desires.
I value others' approval of my thinking, feelings and behavior over my own.
I do not perceive myself as a lovable or worthwhile person.
Compliance patterns:

I compromise my own values and integrity to avoid rejection or others' anger.
I am very sensitive to how others are feeling and feel the same.
I am extremely loyal, remaining in harmful situations too long.
I value others' opinions and feelings more than my own and am afraid to express differing opinions and feelings of my own.
I put aside my own interests and hobbies in order to do what others want.
I accept sex when I want love.
Control patterns:

posted December 27, 2010 10:46 AM            

while much of what you said is well and good, i would NEVER alienate a child or loved one or not be there or sit idly by and watch them suffer. i had to deal with it MY way when a loved on had an addiction and alienating the person did not help. and I know for me, it was indeed the right thing to do. withholding love or tough love will never be my thing...and i think it was the one thing that let the loved one feel comfortable enough to come to me when they suffered through the withdrawl, when they decided enough was enough. ...but the aa or narc anon was not my loved ones choice either, the words he used were, i got into this on my own and i have to be the one to break it on my own....his way...

but i know others that go to narc anon or aa 4-5 years after stop smoking crack and..i guess whatever they have to do they should do it...but it seems religious and odd to me..but hey, to each his/her own.

i wish i could treat mental issues with people in the same regard...you know bi-polar or manic depressive..... as they have a similar co-dependant cycle with loved ones. but i have found the only safe way to deal wtih them is distance and very very limited contact...if any.

what is really sad is what gypsee said is so true, the sickest ones refuse the help. Everyone is crazy but them, everyone is out to get them. ostrization and blame.

i have a real hard time separating the person from thier sickness when it comes to mentally ill loved ones...especially those who refuse help and just lash out. the only way to not let it affect me is stay away. it's sad.