posted November 19, 2012 11:33 AM            

I watched it as I have done briefly in the past and I noticed how "ugly" and obviously inbreed they have become.

I grew up with the Amish in North Central Ohio. An Amishman shod my horses, I went to school with the Mennonites...my grandpa is Mennonite.

I have always been VERY close to this community and in my Piscean relativity I really, as a young person,never thought about them only marrying within their ethnicity.

I, last night, studied their facial structures, features, etc. (likened to that actor on Deliverance) and became very sad.

I never agreed with this program, but maybe it is a good thing for these young Amish to get out, to preserve their culture that I have always loved and respected.

I became very interesed in The Habsburgs of Spain that inbred themselves out centuries ago when I began to notice this in the culture I used to work amoung.

I read the American Indians knew this and this was one reason they would kidnap white women and make them part of their tribes.

posted November 19, 2012 02:07 PM            

Being from the coal region/coal cracker (PA); like you, I was exposed very often to Amish society, and never really took much thought towards the restrictions they had to follow. Not to say I didn't feel somewhat perplexed at how much responsibility my 9 year old playmate had compared to me at 10, I wasn't completely oblivious, just not really aware there was so much a difference between us. Something like that... I did question why their camper was pulled by buggy, and why they didn't use electricity, and he would ask why my mother cussed, and made strange observations on our clothing... lol I was friends with this boy every summer until wI was about 15... and then we never saw them again.

It wasn't until years down the road that the news started really churning out horrible stories on the "behind the curtain" child abuse/molestation/sex-trafficking/drug peddling/adoption-scheming Amish secrets exposed segments...

I'm sure it doesn't happen often, and I never for one met a single Amish/Mennonite that was repugnant in character or appearance, or of bad temper, or disingenuously kind or helpful... they've always seemed to be of high moral conviction, and benevolence to outsiders. AND, omfg <3 potato bread/cake & soft sugar cookies the way only they can make them <3 ---- I guess I'm a bit biased -

I don't think the actual community is inbreeding to the point of collapse just yet, besides they seriously are having issues with fostering/adoption schemes in their ranks but some of the adoptions are genuine, which could help them survive... And, they're definitely not losing anything of great value with these kids walking away, not from what I've seen of the shows. I hope for their survival, but pray that somehow they can successfully integrate some of modern civilizations values/resources into their cultural values. ~~~

posted November 19, 2012 02:18 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
I didn't catch the program yet~ but there was a similar one a wee while back, pretty much the same premise.

Being from the coal region/coal cracker (PA); like you, I was exposed very often to Amish society, and never really took much thought towards the restrictions they had to follow. Not to say I didn't feel somewhat perplexed at how much responsibility my 9 year old playmate had compared to me at 10, I wasn't completely oblivious, just not really aware there was so much a difference between us. Something like that... I did question why their camper was pulled by buggy, and why they didn't use electricity, and he would ask why my mother cussed, and made strange observations on our clothing... lol I was friends with this boy every summer until wI was about 15... and then we never saw them again.

It wasn't until years down the road that the news started really churning out horrible stories on the "behind the curtain" child abuse/molestation/sex-trafficking/drug peddling/adoption-scheming Amish secrets exposed segments...

I'm sure it doesn't happen often, and I never for one met a single Amish/Mennonite that was repugnant in character or appearance, or of bad temper, or disingenuously kind or helpful... they've always seemed to be of high moral conviction, and benevolence to outsiders. AND, omfg <3 potato bread/cake & soft sugar cookies the way only they can make them <3 ---- I guess I'm a bit biased -

I don't think the actual community is inbreeding to the point of collapse just yet, besides they seriously are having issues with fostering/adoption schemes in their ranks but some of the adoptions are genuine, which could help them survive... And, they're definitely not losing anything of great value with these kids walking away, not from what I've seen of the shows. I hope for their survival, but pray that somehow they can successfully integrate some of modern civilizations values/resources into their cultural values. ~~~

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Friggin GREAT post!!!

I speak of my time with them in the 70's...and my how they have changed.

When I go back to visit my grandpa in Northern Indiana I see them with ice chests on the back of their buggies and bright Easter type colors...

Still makes me sad.

I have only seen the "inbred look" on the TV shows, but I am going back to the homelands week after next and believe me I will be looking cause I am hoping to see those lovely faces I grew up with...

I know of a wonderful cheese/candy factory

(Randall I am going to look for some smoked cheese!)

That has always been run by a very traditional family.

I am flying into MDW and will drive 3 hours to The Lake where my grandpa lives and I plan on leaving a day or two early to go and poke around all by myself as I will have a rental car.

Funny, my very blessed grandma was burried in a cemetary in the middle of an Amish community in Northern Indiana...and I have claimed the last plot next to her and my grandpa and my mother.....

See, how much I love this culture~

posted November 19, 2012 07:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by PhoenixFire:
very interesting thread, thank you for sharing. Very odd, I dreamt about being an Amish girl last night and then log on here and find this thread. Hmmmm very fascinating.

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posted November 19, 2012 07:43 PM            

My paternal great grandparents were cousins. I don't know how closely they were related, but they were definitely cousins.

They even look alike

So I'm an inbred. Actually I'm guessing a lot of people are, without realizing it. It used to be so common.

It's pretty weird thinking of how, not so long ago, it was normal for cousins to marry. Like Ashley in Gone With The Wind, hankering after his cousin. Or Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility..he was in love with "a relative" as well.

From what I've seen, these relationships tended to be glorified in literature. Like it showed special loyalty if a guy picked a girl from his family to marry.

I wonder if that was the cultural norm for the day...to associate inbreeding with virtue?

Or maybe it was just old-style kink.

Edit: Oops I veered off topic, I see.

posted November 19, 2012 07:51 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
It's pretty weird thinking of how, not so long ago, it was normal for cousins to marry. Like Ashley in Gone With The Wind, hankering after his cousin. Or Colonel Brandon in Sense and Sensibility..he was in love with "a relative" as well

---

It's legal to marry first cousins in about half the states, and interesting enough many (and I think most) of the states that allow full recognition of such marriages AND allow them to have children were also the states most opposed to interracial marriage AND the current states most opposed to gay marriage. Go figure.

But it is an ancient belief that the nobility were better and so should breed with each other (perhaps the only thing that saved them from a total genetic breakdown is it was often convenient, or even necessary, to have them marry royalty in some other country), though one historian explained to me that a product of inbreeding was almost as likely to be exceedingly intelligent as exceedingly dumb (with some being normal), though interesting enough the really smart ones were often sociopaths with sadistic tendencies...though whether that comes from inbreeding or just the corruption of power (and rhetoric that said s/he mattered more and viewed subjects as livestock) known since birth isn't something he could say.

posted November 19, 2012 08:02 PM            

Thanks PixieJane,

It's actually difficult for me to talk about, so I was editing my post while you were writing, trying to think of what to say.

My bloodline running back Ireland has some royalty in it, but I don't think that's why my great-grandparents got married.

But they were very wealthy and prominent (had U.S. Presidents over for dinner.) I don't know when my ancestors started being affluent; I don't know if they were potato farmers or living in castles in the 1700's. There's a chance my great-grandparents were consolidating wealth and power by marrying for convenience, and then my great-grandfather was just a very successful businessman on his own.

But I don't know enough.

There is both extremely high intelligence and craziness in my family, sometimes in the same person. I don't know if that's the legacy of inbreeding or social advantages (boarding schools, tutors) or both... or neither. I DO have a strange family, though...everyone tells me that, once they get to know us.

posted November 19, 2012 10:13 PM            

Has anyone else read The Immortal Life of Henrietta Lacks? This woman's parent's were first cousins. When she died, doctors took a sample of her blood and, to make a long story short, they began using her cells as an ongoing cell line for medical research. Before her, they were unable to get the cells to keep replicating. So it's been postulated that the inbreeding made her cells special.

I don't know what my point is there except that there is a silver lining on the inbreeding cloud.

For what it's worth...and you know I don't want to argue with you hippichick...I don't think the Amish in PA are ugly. Most of them are seriously cute, in fact. Especially the blonde little boys and girls with tan skin.

posted November 20, 2012 09:50 AM            

And I do realize it is more common than we think.

However, when "new blood" never gets let in, like the Royal families of ages old, and fathers are procreating with daughters, etc is when it begins to kill off a culture, an ethnicity.

The Amish dont marry out of their ethnicities, ever. Sure it may be a neighboring clan, but, eventually, biology will take over and genes will become evident.

I suppose IF an ethnicity were to procreate with only the healtiest, the most good looking ones there would not be an issue, but that is not the case, it never has been it cant be.

posted November 20, 2012 09:51 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:

I don't know what my point is there except that there is a silver lining on the inbreeding cloud.

For what it's worth...and you know I don't want to argue with you hippichick...I don't think the Amish in PA are ugly. Most of them are seriously cute, in fact. Especially the blonde little boys and girls with tan skin.

To me Amish doesn't mean ugly, not yet...not here.

---

Well like I said, I am basing my observations on that program on TV and when I go home soon, I will be a'lookin!

posted November 21, 2012 04:33 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Faith:
My bloodline running back Ireland has some royalty in it, but I don't think that's why my great-grandparents got married.

But they were very wealthy and prominent (had U.S. Presidents over for dinner.) I don't know when my ancestors started being affluent; I don't know if they were potato farmers or living in castles in the 1700's. There's a chance my great-grandparents were consolidating wealth and power by marrying for convenience, and then my great-grandfather was just a very successful businessman on his own.

But I don't know enough.

There is both extremely high intelligence and craziness in my family, sometimes in the same person. I don't know if that's the legacy of inbreeding or social advantages (boarding schools, tutors) or both... or neither. I DO have a strange family, though...everyone tells me that, once they get to know us.

---

I think I have some Irish nobility in my ancestry, too, on my dad's side. I don't know that much about Dad's side of the family save there's Scotch (he's a Cochran) & Irish. His mother was a Butler whose family originally came from (or so she says) Kilkenny, and the Butlers used to be royalty out there (or so I found out when I looked into it). Unlike my mother's side of the family his family was in good standing, however (though Dad himself was a black sheep who mocked the churches, which generally isn't a good idea Behind the Pine Curtain and probably a contributing factor why he moved to Houston). Since he and Mom divorced his side of the family barely acknowledge my existence and they definitely think he married beneath him when he married my mom. That attitude might be another sign of a royal lineage.

posted November 21, 2012 09:44 AM            

I saw an advertisement for a program called Amish Mafia

I thought they were non violent in their Faith and lifestyle.

posted November 21, 2012 10:04 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by juniperb:
Off the track a bit but

I saw an advertisement for a program called Amish Mafia

I thought they were non violent in their Faith and lifestyle.

---

WOW!!!

posted November 21, 2012 10:27 AM            

@frankie: You're Mennonite?! That's fascinating...come to think of it, I remember your picture and you look Mennonite to me. Blonde is the main thing.

@PJ: Thank you for telling me about your genealogy! I love having my mind wander over towards Great Britain and Scandinavia. I loved visiting Scotland, loved the freezing mist pummeling my face on the highlands.

posted November 21, 2012 10:35 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by frankie2912:
I was born into and raised in a Mennonite family...and I just want to say that Mennonite and Amish are [b]not the same thing. I am not aware of any inbreeding in my bloodline and I live in an area where the Mennonite community is very large..they're actually known to be VERY good looking.[/B]

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Yes, I grew up with both, like I said, attended school with the Mennonite and my (not blood) grandpa is Mennonite.

Sorry if I implied such, I know better...

posted December 02, 2012 04:16 AM            

I've kept up with the Breaking Amish series too.

It seems like most of these kids "want out". ....though most are too scared to make the big break. Like typical teenagers seems most of them sneak off and party and act "English", as they say, when no one is looking. But go back to being Amish afterwards. Wonder how much of an impact these shows will have...or the spotlight put on them...and watching some of their friends go off into the "English" world and seeing what happens to them.

posted December 02, 2012 04:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by juniperb:
Off the track a bit but

I saw an advertisement for a program called Amish Mafia

I thought they were non violent in their Faith and lifestyle.

---

I saw that too! and thought the same LOL

Will be tuning into that one too.

btw when I clicked on this channel i caught the end of some kind of Amish MMA fighting ring going on.. lol secretly - away from their parents i think...

This episode spotlights an "English" girl who wants to be Amish. & the Amish kids her age have no idea why and comment how hard it's going to be for her.

posted December 02, 2012 10:22 PM            

I am fixin to find out!

A LOVELY young Libra lady at work suggested I go dressed Amish..

and be shunned...

LOL!

Gunna be scant for over a week...

but..

I'll be back!

posted December 02, 2012 10:36 PM            

(lol not sure I'd wanna be shunned haha)

~ hey - lemme know if ya happen across an authentic Amish sugar cookie recipe~ I've been trying to find one like they use back home for years~ I almost had it perfect last year... you'd think it be an easy one... but getting them perfectly fat and soft~ and just the right sweetness isn't easy at all. --- they spoil us with their good cookin'~ oh & a potato bread/cake recipe~ it's not the same as the recipes I find for the bread online~ lol just sayin' --- would be very grateful if you did happen upon the chance to a place/someone who had these~ ---- enjoy your time!~! wishin' ya well~

posted December 03, 2012 06:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by SaturnineMoth:
oh - Safe journey, Hippichick!~

(lol not sure I'd wanna be shunned haha)

~ hey - lemme know if ya happen across an authentic Amish sugar cookie recipe~ I've been trying to find one like they use back home for years~ I almost had it perfect last year... you'd think it be an easy one... but getting them perfectly fat and soft~ and just the right
sweetness isn't easy at all. --- they spoil us with their good cookin'~ oh & a potato bread/cake recipe~ it's not the same as the recipes I find for the bread online~ lol
just sayin' --- would be very grateful if you did happen

upon the chance to a place/someone who had these~ -
--- enjoy your time!~! wishin' ya well~

I will certainly ask! Spending my last two days in a Victorian bed and breakfast in a little Amish town...

Thanks for the well wishes, sitting in the airport now waiting for the infernal flying machine to arrive

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