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Author Topic:   A third of women earning more than husbands
Odette
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posted May 18, 2013 10:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting article:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-1296124/Third-women-earning-men-main-breadwinners-home.html

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PixieJane
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posted May 19, 2013 02:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'd be curious about more info. I know there are some differences between the US and UK, for example our politicians (especially at the federal level) get paid a lot more than in the UK (and I'd think most western nations). Here in America at about the same time this article was published I think it was 90% of all government jobs cut were teachers (and thus mostly women), though plenty of blue collar jobs took a hit as well (and thus many, if not mostly, men) in the private sector. I noticed that the survey was done by Grazia magazine which means they would be polling women with money to buy what they're selling (and probably a subscription), so that would suggest high income women (but also some well-kept ones as well and/or a trust fund). Though I presume they just meant the UK.

'Course I can't overlook that it's the Daily Mail, too, no matter how plausible it might be...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBT6OSr1TI

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Odette
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posted May 19, 2013 03:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I know! LL-ers post articles here from all sorts of sources - often blogs - and to be honest - I don't trust any of these sources.
But it's always food for thought

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted May 19, 2013 09:20 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I'm sorry. I'm way too chauvanistic to let that happen. Not that the wife earning a lot is a bad thing. Just that the husband ought to earn three times more.

I nearly married a neuro surgeon. If that happened, I would still want to earn many times more. Not to sound gross, but I am a man. My heart is a ham, I carry a functional sausage and I bring home the bacon.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 20, 2013 08:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
I'm sorry. I'm way too chauvanistic to let that happen. Not that the wife earning a lot is a bad thing. Just that the husband ought to earn three times more.

I nearly married a neuro surgeon. If that happened, I would still want to earn many times more. Not to sound gross, but I am a man. My heart is a ham, I carry a functional sausage and I bring home the bacon.



People are gonna go crazy with our Points of view here, but I agree.

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Padre35
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posted May 20, 2013 08:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

In the US more women then men go to college today which leads to higher earning potential.

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mockingbird
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posted May 20, 2013 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I've offered to go back and be the breadwinner while my husband works on his PhD, but he says, "No."

It might have something to do with the fact that while he was finishing his Master's as a TA w/ a weekend job, we did the same. He was so stressed out about it that he had horrible gastrointestinal problems leading to drastic weight loss that cleared up as soon as he went back to his full time job and earning the lion's share.
It wasn't stress about his program, as he finished out his last semester while working (more than) f/t and had no such issues.

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Kerosene
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posted May 20, 2013 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL my mom earns more than my dad, she's always been the breadwinner. Father likes being a housewife and mother is ambitious and far more capable than most men.
Its a cute dynamic.
People find it really odd thou.

The most successful relationships usually have that yin and yang concept or there will probably be competition for power and dominance.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted May 20, 2013 06:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

People are gonna go crazy with our Points of view here, but I agree.

It's how it goes.

In my circle, the first thing a man is asked is what he does for a living. Soon after that, where he went to school comes up. And I know a lot of broke doctors, and one laid off unemployed physician, so there's nothing to say that a blue collar type wouldn't earn more.

Whether one likes it or not, a man's worth is tied to his net worth. Ugly or not, it is the practical reality.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted May 20, 2013 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just to clarify, if my wife were Meg Whitman, CEO of HP and ex-CEO of EBay, and ex Governor candidate of California, I would gladly support her and stay at home. Until then, she would have to contend with my ability to earn, given that Uncle Sam says I earn more singularly than 99% of American households. As far as being arrogant, perhaps so, but I've earned my keep. The bottom line talks. The rest walks.

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Padre35
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posted May 20, 2013 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Just to clarify, if my wife were Meg Whitman, CEO of HP and ex-CEO of EBay, and ex Governor candidate of California, I would gladly support her and stay at home. Until then, she would have to contend with my ability to earn, given that Uncle Sam says I earn more singularly than 99% of American households. As far as being arrogant, perhaps so, but I've earned my keep. The bottom line talks. The rest walks.

Exactly, this is one of the ideas, actually you, yourself, YTA, is one of the genesis behind a fascination I have for why rural and urban people tend to not mesh very well.

Different fundamental cultures I'd think.

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aquaguy91
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posted May 21, 2013 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
It's how it goes.

In my circle, the first thing a man is asked is what he does for a living. Soon after that, where he went to school comes up. And I know a lot of broke doctors, and one laid off unemployed physician, so there's nothing to say that a blue collar type wouldn't earn more.

Whether one likes it or not, a man's worth is tied to his net worth. Ugly or not, it is the practical reality.



yes that is the reality sadly, but it shouldn't be that way.

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SpooL
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posted May 21, 2013 12:14 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:

In the US more women then men go to college today which leads to higher earning potential.


Not entirely true. There is no doubt more women are enrolled in college and university.

However, the vast majority are Bachelor of Arts students.

The males that are enrolled are in programs that require more mathematical skills. Such as Bachelor of Engineering, Bachelor Of Science, and Bachelor of Commerce.

Who do you think has more earning potential and employable skills a female graduate with a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Women and Gender studies or a male with degree in Engineering?

The problem is males are more pickier when it comes to jobs, while women aren't.

For example an male engineer wouldn't want to be seen doing a job that is considered lower, unless he is desperate.

While a female and mother will do almost any job to keep her family going.

The problem is with the economy we have right now, there aren't as many of the honorable, ego based male jobs and of course males wouldn't want that.

But, if a male is in one of those high position ego male driven jobs he will undoubtedly make more than a female would.

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Kerosene
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posted May 21, 2013 12:18 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Kerosene     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Are you kidding me I see women getting together with average guys all the time.
I think as a society we call women gold diggers while the majority are actually looking for love.
It's truly sad if thats your opinion about women..

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Padre35
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posted May 21, 2013 12:37 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpooL:
Not entirely true. There is no doubt more women are enrolled in college and university.

However, the vast majority are Bachelor of Arts students.

The males that are enrolled are in programs that require more mathematical skills. Such as Bachelor of Engineering, Bachelor Of Science, and Bachelor of Commerce.

Who do you think has more earning potential and employable skills a female graduate with a Bachelor of Arts Degree in Women and Gender studies or a male with degree in Engineering?

The problem is males are more pickier when it comes to jobs, while women aren't.

For example an male engineer wouldn't want to be seen doing a job that is considered lower, unless he is desperate.

While a female and mother will do almost any job to keep her family going.

The problem is with the economy we have right now, there aren't as many of the honorable, ego based male jobs and of course males wouldn't want that.

But, if a male is in one of those high position ego male driven jobs he will undoubtedly make more than a female would.


Over time a BA will earn more then most workers (aside from Unions etc) but not as much as a "hard science" field such as Engineering or Chemicals etc.

Other thing to keep in mind is this is a UK study, a very different economy then the US or Canada.

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Odette
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posted May 21, 2013 02:01 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
However, the vast majority are Bachelor of Arts students.

At Law School it's often 50-50.. with a slight edge for women.

In Philosophy, on the other hand - which is sometimes considered to be part of the Arts faculty & other times part of Social Sciences - women are insanely, and I mean -insanely- outnumbered.

I guess I could ask - who would make more money - a male philosopher or a female lawyer? lol

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FireMoon
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posted May 21, 2013 02:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FireMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
[QUOTE]Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
[b] It's how it goes.

In my circle, the first thing a man is asked is what he does for a living. Soon after that, where he went to school comes up. And I know a lot of broke doctors, and one laid off unemployed physician, so there's nothing to say that a blue collar type wouldn't earn more.

Whether one likes it or not, a man's worth is tied to his net worth. Ugly or not, it is the practical reality.



yes that is the reality sadly, but it shouldn't be that way. [/B][/QUOTE]

That's pretty much my take on it lol. And this too..

quote:
Originally posted by Kerosene:
Are you kidding me I see women getting together with average guys all the time.
I think as a society we call women gold diggers while the majority are actually looking for love.
It's truly sad if thats your opinion about women..


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SpooL
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posted May 21, 2013 02:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Padre35:
Over time a BA will earn more then most workers (aside from Unions etc) but not as much as a "hard science" field such as Engineering or Chemicals etc.

Other thing to keep in mind is this is a UK study, a very different economy then the US or Canada.


I understand that. The problem is its becoming harder and harder to find someone who doesn't hold a college or university degree or is in the process of obtaining one.

Heck, I know lots of people entering graduate studies because thats the only way they can maximize there BA.

If 50% of the population only had a high school diploma or GED, in that case yes a BA is better.

But, its not like that anymore because of competition.

A BA is now the new high school diploma.

quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
At Law School it's often 50-50.. with a slight edge for women.

In Philosophy, on the other hand - which is sometimes considered to be part of the Arts faculty & other times part of Social Sciences - women are insanely, and I mean -insanely- outnumbered.

I guess I could ask - who would make more money - a male philosopher or a female lawyer? lol


Bad comparison. I was comparing a BA. vs BEng. not BA. vs BA.

Generally, a Law Degree is considered a Bachelor of Law or LL.B. so I wouldn't categorizes it with the other BA programs.

The same is with BA economics, BA economics is being replaced as a Bachelor of Commerce degree.

I would like to see the stats regarding males enrolled in Philosophy, maybe in the 90's.

The point is different majors have different earning potentials and males are less likely to earn a BA.

All of the recent unemployed grads with massive student loans I know are BA's, all females.

The male grads that I know of are working related fields, could be better but a lot better compared to a BA grad.

So I don't agree with the argument that education is the sole contributing factor. It helps, but not the main deciding factor.

Keep in mind Bill Gates only has a high school diploma and he is always within the top 5 Forbes list.


Odette,

I hope your not clinging on thinking a BA is better, its the bottom of the barrel, lol.

This is how it goes.

The medical students look down on the engineers and the engineers look down on the arts students.

In the 90's it was all about the Arts, times change.

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FireMoon
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posted May 21, 2013 05:26 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for FireMoon     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by SpooL:
Odette,

I hope your not clinging on thinking a BA is better, its the bottom of the barrel, lol.

This is how it goes.

The medical students look down on the engineers and the engineers look down on the arts students.

In the 90's it was all about the Arts, times change.


I believe she was saying there are slightly more women than men earning law degrees, and lawyers tend to make more money than people who have advanced liberal arts degrees...

Although even the "prestigious" law degree is losing value in the modern U.S. economy. Not as many people can afford frivolous lawsuits when the middle class is going to s***

Personally, I don't buy that women are earning more than men now on average. I really don't, and I don't have any articles or evidence to back that up at the moment lol

What's disturbing to me is that there is now the illusion that this is the case. That women are becoming the breadwinners and things have now become magically equal economically or the tables have turned somehow.

And now this debate is taking place on the ethics of something that isn't even happening.. Kind of distracts from the main issues imo and it's a typical "feminist" debate in politics, society, etc. But sorry I should probably just refrain from responding to these kinds of threads lol

edit: I realize the article isn't actually saying women earn more than men on average, but it's still framed in a way that highlights major progress or shifts in attitudes. But 30% of women making more than men and 19% making the same still leaves 51% of women earning less. And considering it's now increasingly necessary to have two incomes to support a family that doesn't seem like a major shift

Also I understand statistically more men get degrees in fields with higher earning potential than women, which is a common explanation for this. But there is also a wage gap between men and women with the same educational backgrounds, and that gap widens the higher up the ladder one climbs...

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mockingbird
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posted May 21, 2013 07:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I think it's interesting how thoroughly the conversation can change by nation.

Someone quoted that 50% of adults have at least a BA.
Not in the US - more like 31%.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Educational_attainment_in_the_United_States

And, at least back in 2010, the income of men working f/t still outpaced that of women working f/t, and is slightly more pronounced when part time workers are added (probably due at least in part to Moms working part time):http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_income_in_the_United_States

Excuse the wiki references. I'm on my phone and some otherwise worthwhile-looking sites wouldn't load properly.

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mockingbird
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posted May 21, 2013 09:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for mockingbird     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
US Stats: http://m.usatoday.com/article/news/1957621

And an interesting take: http://www.chicagobooth.edu/about/newsroom/news/2013/2013-02-18-bertrand

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PixieJane
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posted May 21, 2013 06:57 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireMoon:
Personally, I don't buy that women are earning more than men now on average.

I don't either, but that's not saying the same thing as there's a growing number of women who earn more than their husbands (who presumably work in different jobs if not completely different fields, and he may not work either as a freeloader drug addict, or someone who became disabled, or even by agreed upon choice, and may even be that she's a well-paid nurse with a need to "rescue" people and hooks up with the the men she tries to help, etc). While I don't believe that women make more than average than men at the same thing, I don't have a problem believing that it's more acceptable (and thus more common) for women to carry a lot more of the financial burdens than they used to.

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YoursTrulyAlways
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posted May 21, 2013 10:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for YoursTrulyAlways     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Graduate degrees mean squat. How much you make is a function of what you do with your degree and how you perform on the job.

I have many graduate degrees. Useless sh1t paper. Nothing to brag about.

And there are more women getting graduate degrees than men. That is fact. Unfortunately, the glass ceiling still exists for all minorities, including women. 80% of the lawyers who make partner at white shoe law firms each year are white old money men at waspy firms and the equal percentage of Jewish men at Jewish firms. I know for a fact several law firms and venture funds that require their partners to be homogeneous and from three universities.

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Padre35
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posted May 21, 2013 10:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Padre35     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Graduate degrees mean squat. How much you make is a function of what you do with your degree and how you perform on the job.

I have many graduate degrees. Useless sh1t paper. Nothing to brag about.

And there are more women getting graduate degrees than men. That is fact. Unfortunately, the glass ceiling still exists for all minorities, including women. 80% of the lawyers who make partner at white shoe law firms each year are white old money men at waspy firms and the equal percentage of Jewish men at Jewish firms. I know for a fact several law firms and venture funds that require their partners to be homogeneous and from three universities.


Generally YTA, ones dogmatic adherence to CREAM is not my cup o' tea.

However, in this instance, performance matters, do not care what the vellum looks like, can one do the job, or not, and that is the bottom line and it should be.

Life can be fun, when it comes to the job a pro handles it as they've studied it, a warm seat cannot.

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SpooL
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posted May 21, 2013 11:03 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for SpooL     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by YoursTrulyAlways:
Graduate degrees mean squat. How much you make is a function of what you do with your degree and how you perform on the job.

I have many graduate degrees. Useless sh1t paper. Nothing to brag about.

And there are more women getting graduate degrees than men. That is fact. Unfortunately, the glass ceiling still exists for all minorities, including women. 80% of the lawyers who make partner at white shoe law firms each year are white old money men at waspy firms and the equal percentage of Jewish men at Jewish firms. I know for a fact several law firms and venture funds that require their partners to be homogeneous and from three universities.


When you enter graduate studies, the assumption is you already have years of experience in your chosen career and lots of contacts.

Your just trying to distinguish yourself further.

If you completed a graduate degree from a good university, but not the best university and lack contacts, in that situation it would mean squat.

I'm sure if you earned a doctorate from Harvard you would be saying the opposite and
be boasting. With that said you might just go ahead and do that.

My assumption is Harvard is one of the three universities listed.

Anyway, the article is a UK study North America is a lot different.

Earnings fluctuate between males and females.

I would argue female earnings are more steady and male earnings can raise or tank depending on the economy.

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