posted August 10, 2013 02:38 AM            

Remember how I mentioned before disdain for patriarchy well I have very conversative family members.
My father was telling me on the phone how my first cousin feels education is not important for girls (her daughter is about my age).

She feels her daughter should concentrate on getting married and her husband should educate her.
This incredibly sad and completely hypocritical because my cousin is highly educated woman. It's also sad that an incredibly gifted young woman will never be able to see her true potential in life.
My cousins husband is actually incredibly conservative and apparently at some point in life she was a level headed young woman.
Did I mention they live in the US?

+ 1 for patriarchy; keeping women in their place since... forever?

I don't want to put you on the spot but I thought you should see things in this perspective. I'm not coming at you for blood
Patriarchy does not always work so blatantly, sometimes it's easier to feed lies or certain opinions into peoples head, it becomes this vicious circle. This circles continuous with in our personal relationships
For example how Eve took a bite in the apple?
Thou I don't mean for this to be a religious debate.

No, this does not mean I support matriarchy..
However I don't feel bad if men feel less in control. Why must a man be in control? You can control another human being.

However I hope for utopian society where everyone is equal but that will probably never happen because there people like my cousin living in this world ....

posted August 10, 2013 03:27 AM            

quote:

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She feels her daughter should concentrate on getting married and her husband should educate her.
This incredibly sad and completely hypocritical because my cousin is highly educated woman.

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Yikes. I think parents should just give their kids space to go in whichever direction they see fit. I mean you can advise them.. but you don't have to impose things upon them :\

I'm glad in a sense that my parents and most of my family were the opposite of this.. always encouraging me to focus on things other than marriage.
Although maybe now I'm too much in the opposite extreme.
Do you know if her daughter has a Cancer Moon?
I think women with traditional Moon signs like Taurus or Cancer are more likely to play a traditional feminine role.

posted August 10, 2013 07:00 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Kerosene:
Before that thread was closed wanted to make a point but I forgot.. however I recently had an epiphany while brushing my teeth, it was based off conversations in RL.

Remember how I mentioned before disdain for patriarchy well I have very conversative family members.
My father was telling me on the phone how my first cousin feels education is not important for girls (her daughter is about my age).

She feels her daughter should concentrate on getting married and her husband should educate her.
This incredibly sad and completely hypocritical because my cousin is highly educated woman. It's also sad that an incredibly gifted young woman will never be able to see her true potential in life.
My cousins husband is actually incredibly conservative and apparently at some point in life she was a level headed young woman.
Did I mention they live in the US?

+ 1 for patriarchy; keeping women in their place since... forever?

I don't want to put you on the spot but I thought you should see things in this perspective. I'm not coming at you for blood
Patriarchy does not always work so blatantly, sometimes it's easier to feed lies or certain opinions into peoples head, it becomes this vicious circle. This circles continuous with in our personal relationships
For example how Eve took a bite in the apple?
Thou I don't mean for this to be a religious debate.

No, this does not mean I support matriarchy..
However I don't feel bad if men feel less in control. Why must a man be in control? You can control another human being.

However I hope for utopian society where everyone is equal but that will probably never happen because there people like my cousin living in this world ....

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K, You can ask me anything. Don't worry about that.

What is the question? Why does it have to be a patriarchal society?

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 10, 2013 07:09 AM            

Were you thinking in terms of the US or the world, if it was on a macro level?

These are two very different questions.

Was your underlying question why the world cannot be utopian? If so, I have a clear answer for that

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Passion, Lust, Desire. Check out my journal

posted August 10, 2013 05:34 PM            

Utopias don't last because we outgrow its perfection. Macro peace is a result of adjusting to micro growth and cumulative change happening in the individuals. If it can't have homeostasis, then this lack of balance dissolves what was known. The process starts over to gain its 'lasting peace' again. (Generally and loosely stated)

There has to be an established "good" Authority for people to be happy in their 'assigned' roles. Those roles in the Society shouldn't limit 'the equality' of individuals. The benefits of 'equality' is that it is NATURALLY conductive to these individuals to have innovative-ability within their special role or fit.

Authority can unconsciously start to abuse its power. This shift can happen when it begins to 'Own' (feeling level) and view (narrow perspective) that those on the 'outside', (the Collective-Others), are the personal-extensions of their Egos. This may or may not have been the intention of that 'Authority' to begin with.

If that Authority (caught in 'feeling' its 'own' powerful potential) then 'perceives' so-called problems, then the 'Others' begin to falsely appear as-though their acts are rebelliousness-- (even if that is NOT the case). An error can be made! The 'act of innovation' could be viewed and interpreted as 'act of rebellion'...

An 'Independent' person means there's a quality of equal-ness, and the natural ensuing creativity and innovation comes as a result of 'happiness'... However, the state of independence CAN take the cue and BECOME that very Authority's own fears.... that these acts of independence are not 'innovation' but the 'feared' act of 'rebellion'-- power struggle! This can happen by mistake if Authority perhaps does not realize it is overly-invested in the Control of that 'Other'-- meaning the 'Other' IS an outer extended self-object.

In that case of that imagined fear, the interpretation of 'apparent' behaviors of the Self-objects can rally the feeling of alarm in Insecure Authority. The Authority triggers an outer force. The Other "must" be submitted and repressed by the ones. Authority oppresses 'just in case' of the intention of 'rebellion'. Authority sees its need to keep that 'active quash' going, as this 'serves' to distract and take away focus and ability from its targeted subject-object--- all in the interest to keep something 'new' from popping up. This is Insecure Authority.

Any Patriarch or Matriarch out of balance has the possibility to become Insecure Authority without CONSCIOUSLY being aware of it. Then, within some Cultures and Traditions this has become a Fixed Idea.... Authority is then too nervous and insecure to change the situation because they don't 'trust in the love of their people'... (especially in the case when this Authority would 'deserve' the consequence of its people being angry). The thing is, though, not all 'angry people' want to take down their government. The angry people are just pLissed and want to be Heard so that Authority can decide on adjustments that are based on satisfying an equality, instead of harsh outer control. Inner satisfaction is Peace. People can cope with outer dissatisfactions when the Authority acts with equality understanding and wisdom.

In my immediate family, I was not 'expected' to want to go to college (in spite of the fact that I had been an excellent student and showed leadership ability). (In Middle-School, I was given a special youth award... Stahl Post "American Legion School Award" based on teacher-vote, it was given to the one student each year. "The Award is based on courage, honor, leadership, patriotism, scholarship, and service.")

My parents said to me that, "Education is a waste on a woman because she's gonna get married and pregnant anyway." None of my brothers wanted to go to college. They were more interested in tech trades. So after seeing them not wanting to take the tract to college, I begged to go. My guidance counselors even insisted. My father (who had said he would pay the total tuition for college for the boys) responded and told me that if I 'insisted' on wanting to go to college, then he would "loan" me the money and add usury (interest rate). (My heart fell! This was so un-equal, so unfair!) (wha????)

My mother kept harping that Women in college make families 'suffer' because men support the family, and that women in college keep a deserving man away from being able to support their family. (I always had that 'ghost' attached to me... Seems that I was never able to shake this... My 'place' was not sitting and learning and dreaming!)

^ I AM NOT KIDDING YOU!! And...I GREW UP IN THE USA! My mother was a narcissist-Republican, and her own brand of religious-extremist. She also physically and psychologically abused and emotionally handicapped me. I ran away from home.... to go to 'college'! Paid my first semester tuition. By the time second semester started, I had 'qualified' for a government grant. It's just unfortunate that I didn't receive the emotional and moral support I needed 'as a girl' in the changing 1970s scene. My confidence lagged. And I had jumped from the frying pan, into the fire--- the person I lived with was a raging alcoholic, and did further demolishing. I had gotten within one more semester of two separate bachelor of arts degrees, and had to escape and run to a new state. Never finished my degrees.

Yes! Political and Religious culture and tradition can take away a girl's budding chance at happy life. Even though I'd gotten away, I didn't have the mentors I needed, and didn't 'learn' the soft-skills to navigate my world, and to know my talent and thusly & rightly "use" it towards my fulfillment.

The help-system that was supposed to be designed to help this (or any) adolescent escape safely, had pervs serving in strategic counseling positions. One fated night, I was forced into making a decision by her... I got out of her car and puked! Walked the neighborhood block for hours. It was the middle of the night. I was facing a DECISION: the major fork in the road. Had to decide. After hours of walking, I made the decision 'to go along with' the sexual desires of a female perv, or fall back to consequence-punishment hell and abuse for 'trying to escape' my parents. It was a decision between the perv, or do suicide before dealing with the parental backlash for 'embarrassing' them 'in front of the neighbors'... There was NO future for my longings for an independent life away from my backwards family.

This was the secret I carried that was the capstone of secrets from my life.... up to age 22yrs. Everywhere I went, no one suspected or asked--- Even denied this to my own self.... I placed incredible walls of partitions between my former self and past. I would deny the past, and forgive and just 'live on' from there! I had places to go, things to see and do! Tried to make a 'new' life for myself... (which now looking back, at age 58, never ever 'ignited' successfully... help was foiled. can't say that I didn't make a PRODIGIOUS effort at it! a derailed wreck)

In Jupiterian and Mercurial style, I tried to fit and find my way unsuccessfully through the labyrinth... I became its captive-- seized by its monsters, terror, with ne'er a successful escaping. I had come soooo close, but victory was continually, serially snatched away and I was returned again to the ash-heap to cure. Been struggling. Sniffed the salt air.... Longing. So this was the story of my Soul's journey this lifetime. This was the fulfillment of the Promise in my natal chart. I tried to live the Promise... It was the 'living' it that counted, not worldly definition of 'succeeding' at any direction. It was about just staying alive... (BeeGees?)

Girls in This World need the rallying of awesome mentors. The World today ABSOLUTELY require the Presence of Women Who Believe in Themselves. This is Our greatest RESOURCE that we, as Nations, can invest in, towards an innovative Productive High Quality Future Life for ALL Living Beings, and this Mothering Ship, Our Earth....

posted August 10, 2013 06:19 PM            

I think it's really f'd up that my cousin feels marriage is more important. Her own sisters were in abusive marriages ,however they were capable enough to support themselves....
Kinda blows my mind

I have interesting females in my family some act like martyrs and others are ****** (in the literal sense)
My sister was a stripper and escort... However I still unconditionally love her.

The only normal female in my family is my mother... Thank goodness for that.
Honestly I stay away from extended family, they're all f*ed up.

@AMI
They are two separate things but you have to understand that it all starts within the family unit. The whole concept of man of the house is rubbish anyways.

Uhh things are happening, so I'll reiterate my thoughts clearly and specifically later.

@mirage

Good points, gosh I feel like we're in a feminist studies class.
I'm sorry you had to go through that prejudice.
That's really sad people honestly have that mentally.
"She'll end up being a mother anyways"....sad :/

posted August 10, 2013 07:19 PM            

It's still with us today, I've seen people of all ages blame Kristen Stewart for the affair with her director, never mind that the man was older, married, technically held power over her, and had children, therefore should be expected to behave more respectably. While I'm not saying Kristen was all innocent in this, I can't help but notice that all the hate was directed at HER in spite of all of this, therefore I know the message still exists to this day, including among kids (though I wonder how many girls were unable to see the difference between her and her role as Bella, which they fantasized about being and thinking "she's going to mess this up for ALL of us!" ).

Mom responded by deciding how to use that to her advantage rather than being a victim of it while also holding a Scorpio (and Tiger!) rage at the blatant hypocrisy of both males & females that inspired her to seek revenge that made her punish males & females both (for example, she'd take great pleasure in proving her "power" by stealing the boyfriend of a girl who called her a **** to show that's what men wanted, and then drop the man in contempt as well...of course she kept men on retainer so to speak to help protect her from male retaliation, and my family would've come down on any who attacked her like a ton of bricks, even if they didn't like what she did). In addition she mastered other methods of manipulation, and because females shunned her (both from internalizing the message as well as seeing her as competition for male attention) she stuck with the males whom she could control (and play off against each other) the easiest. The way she adapted was, "I have all the control? Fine, then I'll USE it, and make you pathetic hypocrites pay."

I still plan to one day give my mom a copy of The Satanic Witch just to get her to comment on it, I bet I'll learn even more about her life and the way she sees the world, and she may reveal more of her ideas that she tends to keep secret. And I'm gonna laugh if she dismisses it with Leonine (ascendant, N. Node, Mars) pride as "amateurish."

When I was blatantly confronted with it I just shrugged it off (Sag) and ignored many and saw ways to laugh about it and bucked off the guys who thought I was fair game for their base urges and either ignored or mocked the girls upset by the male attention I got that they actually craved for themselves (and guys helped me with that, too, the kind who didn't expect me to give myself to them in gratitude but instead saw me as a friend or "sister," and my cousin helped males retain self-control when he made it clear they WOULD be held accountable for their actions against me by him). My placements encouraged me to be a tomboy and focus on what I had going for me than what was against me. I was bemused by the concept at first, and so were the boys I asked about (who unlike me didn't get in trouble for anything I did, like if I walked home with 2 boys then my granny got the calls that I was having sex with both, or would be, but the parents of the boys didn't get called, or if they did then the boys didn't hear of it), though I admit over the years I've grown to find it tiresome.

But the biggest difference between us is that Mom took pride in getting males to do whatever she wanted as an exercise of power rather than dependence. We both have a Leo ascendant and yet we both look down on each other because I see her as something of a prostitute (while she sees herself as bewitching others with her power and making them her slaves) while she sees me as unable to get a man to take care of anything I want done (while I see myself as independent enough to not need that). In addition, I have zero respect for the guys she seduces (and so does she!) and want nothing to do with them while she wonders why I'd want guys I couldn't "manage" with a swing of my hips. In short, I seek to win my own trophies while Mom sees herself as a trophy to be won.

posted August 10, 2013 09:34 PM            

it's not as romantic as the other 2. but it is the most real. delpy takes the stance of most western/ independent women. how she feels about career, children, being a mother.

i honestly don't think i want this type of woman. i got so irritated i put her as my celeb i'm not fond of. i can definitely relate to ethan hawke saying these words to his wife. "You are the ******* mayor of crazy town."

posted August 11, 2013 12:08 AM            

it's depressing lol! at least to me it was. they just reminded me of my dad and step mom now.

posted August 11, 2013 12:51 AM            

thumbsup at this... good one!--

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And I don't understand why more men don't take offense at the attitude as well as it says very poor things about their ability to be an adult if they're so helpless (seriously, if I believed that BS that females are responsible for men's behavior then I'd push to make all men the equivalent of children legally speaking, and rightly so!).

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posted August 11, 2013 01:03 AM            

quote:

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@mirage

Good points, gosh I feel like we're in a feminist studies class.
I'm sorry you had to go through that prejudice.
That's really sad people honestly have that [mentality].
"She'll end up being a mother anyways"....sad :/

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posted August 11, 2013 02:54 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by lulz:
i'm not sure. i bought the fake dvd! i caught sunset in cinemas and i could have easily missed it. it didn't play in all theatres.

it's depressing lol! at least to me it was. they just reminded me of my dad and step mom now.

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Lol, I'm gonna DL it one of these days hahaha. Dun have money anymore because I'm now officially unemployed hahahaha I've seen sunset, but Before Sunrise was still my fave

posted August 11, 2013 08:39 AM            

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Originally posted by Lunae:
Lol, I'm gonna DL it one of these days hahaha. Dun have money anymore because I'm now officially unemployed hahahaha I've seen sunset, but Before Sunrise was still my fave

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