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Author Topic:   The ongoing issue with Sexism in the professional World
Xodian
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posted January 30, 2014 01:02 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
While we have had the opportunity to dicuss the issue of sexism in relation to the dating and social aspects of our lives, we haven't highlighted issues with sexism pertaining to Jobs and Workplaces; And that IMO should be brought to light as it will give quite a few skeptics a clear cut idea as to why Sexism is such a huge problem in the professional world.

The following Blog entry was written by Meagan Marie; A Community & Communications Manager at Crystal Dynamics (Video Game Developers) and a VERY good friend of mines .

http://www.meagan-marie.com/

Seriously, she is awesome! A total Renaissance woman who is a professional cosplayer, model, and TV Host. Check out her rendition of Wonder Woman:



She recently bravely spoke up about a huge problem with sexism in the gaming industry, its general attitude towards women and how it ends up being translated onto generic ideas and bad character profiles when it comes to both genders. I seriously can't believe she put up with the crap thrown at her by total pigs for all those years.

Her blog entry entitled "What would you do if you weren't afraid?" should highlight the issue with sexism and how covert it actually is even in this day and age.

Without further delay, here is the blog entry:

http://meagan-marie.tumblr.com/post/46396481491/what-would-you-do-if-you-werent-afraid


quote:
As many of my female peers are doing at the moment, I’m reading a book by Facebook’s Sheryl Sandberg called Lean In. The first chapter asks: What would you do if you weren’t afraid?

My answer? I’d write this blog.

Hello. My name is Meagan Marie, and I’m a person. I’ve decided I’m going to start standing up for myself in order to be more frequently treated like one.

Something transpired at PAX this weekend that was a true eye opener. While hosting a Tomb Raider cosplay gathering, comprised of eight or so incredibly nice and talented young women, a member of the press asked if he could grab a quick interview. I said he’d need to ask them, not me, and they agreed. He squeezed into the group and posed a question. I couldn’t hear what he said over the hubbub of the show floor, but the confused and uncomfortable looks from the ladies indicated that it wasn’t what they expected, to say the least.

I moved in closer and inquired “Excuse me, what did you ask?” with a forced smile on my face, so to give him the benefit of the doubt. He laughed and didn’t respond, moving a few steps away as I repeated the question to the group of women. Turns out he’d probed what it felt like “knowing that none of the men in this room could please them in bed.” Yes, I’m aware it’s a poor adaptation of a gag told by a certain puppet dog with an affinity for insults. Lack of originally doesn’t excuse this behavior, however.

My anger flared upon hearing this, and for a moment I almost let it get the best of me. I attempted to calm myself down before walking towards him and the cameraman, and expressing that it was rude and unprofessional to assume that these young women were comfortable discussing sexual matters on camera. I intended to leave the conversation at that, but his subsequent response escalated matters quickly and clearly illustrated that this ran much deeper than a poor attempt at humor. He proceeded to tell me that “I was one of those oversensitive feminists” and that “the girls were dressing sexy, so they were asking for it.” Yes, he pulled the “cosplay is consent” card.

At this point, as he snaked off into the crowd muttering angrily at me, I was livid. Actually shaking a bit. It was inexcusable in my mind to treat the group of women in this manner, especially when I gathered them there to participate in an official capacity. I suppose I felt protective for this reason. As if I’d exposed them to an undesirable element of the convention. They united to celebrate their fandom, only to have an uncomfortable and unprofessional moment captured on film.

As I stated publicly this weekend, we escalated the issue to PAX and they responded with overwhelming concern and worked to ensure he wouldn’t bother anyone at the this or future PAX events. They handled the situation with flying colors.

But this encounter isn’t the crux of my blog. This blog is about what I came to realize as a result of the press member’s actions. And what I realized is this: When it comes to defending others, I’m fierce. I’m assertive. And I will hold my ground. One of the cosplayers tweeted me to praise my bravery and say they wish they had the courage to stand up too. The truth is my bravery doesn’t run that deep. When it comes to defending myself I’m a rug that is walked over repeatedly. This has to stop.

Similar behavior has been directed at me for years. Back in 2007 at my very first GDC, I was starry-eyed and overwhelmed to be in the midst of so many people I idolized. So when a drunken CEO of a then-startup pointed to my midsection and said “I want to have my babies in there,” I laughed. I did the same next year when another developer told me that he “didn’t recognize me with my clothes on” after meeting me the night prior at a formal event (to which I wore a cocktail dress). The trend continued for years, and I took it silently each and every time.

It got so bad that one of my Game Informer coworkers had to sit me down and convince me to file a complaint against a massive publisher, after one of their PR leads repeatedly commented about how much he “loved my **** ” at a party. Each time I laughed it off and internalized my embarrassment, cementing a fixed smile on my face while fighting back tears. Why? Because I was afraid to rock the boat. I was afraid to perpetuate rumors that I was uptight, difficult, or had no sense of humor. I was afraid of what I’d heard being said about other women being said about me. So I would stick up for others, but never for myself. Sticking up for others was the right thing to do. I had to be careful not to stick my neck out too far, though.

I’m ashamed to admit my lack of courage has continued to this day. While on a press tour in Europe late last year I sat alone with an interviewer while he set up his camera. PR was talking to another member of the press just out of earshot. I asked the journalist what his readers would like to know about me first, per the introduction he outlined earlier. He responded nonchalantly, “Well, they’d really like to see you naked.” I was so shocked I didn’t even register what he said, and I defaulted to my uncomfortable chuckle and frozen smile. I conducted the interview as if nothing had happened. I should have walked out of the room then and there. I should have immediately reported it to PR. But I didn’t, because I was afraid.

And while these industry comments hurt the most, as they often do when coming from peers, I’ve got hope for change even if it is motivated by fear. In a social economy where one unprofessional tweet can ruin a career, I feel like the few unsavory industry personalities are becoming more aware of their words. My line in the sand doesn’t end there, though. I’m going to start holding commenters accountable for their actions too, even if I can only do so on my social spaces.

So here is the deal. I’m a person. I’m not just a “girl on the internet.” I am not comfortable with you remarking on my breasts. I am not comfortable with you implying that you’d like to have sex with me. And I don’t appreciate you rating my looks against my girlfriends in candid photos.

While I can’t stop these comments and questions from arising when they pop up on random blogs across the web, I can stand up and say that that I won’t accept being talked to in this manner anymore. I’m not simply going to ignore you; I’m going to call you out and tell you that you’re being inappropriate. Just because I have a public job and an equally public hobby doesn’t give you the right to ignore my comfort zone.

The situation this weekend at PAX made me question why I’m willing to stand up for others, but not myself. By allowing myself to be treated this way I’m perpetuating that this behavior is acceptable. And it isn’t. If I continue to stand by silently, I might as well sit on the sidelines and watch while other young women endure what I have.

The treatment and representation of women in gaming has come to a head this past year, and I know some of you are tired of hearing about it. I’m tired of living it. I want to feel safe and valued as a member of this industry, whether I’m conducting an interview, talking to fans on a convention floor, or cosplaying. And I have a right to that.

I’m not afraid anymore. I’m angry.

[For those of you who have been so supportive these past years, both in the industry and out, please know this blog isn’t directed at you. I can’t imagine dedicating my life to anything other than video games. And that’s why I’m going to fight my hardest to leave it a better place.]


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aquaguy91
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posted January 30, 2014 05:29 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I actually have a lot to say but I'm going to keep most of it to myself as I don't have the energy to get into a pointless argument. However I will say that male sexuality is considered sexism far too often in today's society. I mean come on... Is it really a suprise that men see attractive women in a sexual light? Especially when said attractive women are dressed like characters the men like? The instance where she asked what they wanted to know about her and the guy answered "well,they would really like to see you naked" is one of those times where the rule "don't ask a question unless ya want an honest answer" applies. Was that inappropriate to say? You could say that... But That was the truth. Of course straight men want to see attractive women naked, it's basic biology. No amount of male shaming and political correctness is going to change that.

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Xodian
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posted January 30, 2014 06:10 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I actually have a lot to say but I'm going to keep most of it to myself as I don't have the energy to get into a pointless argument.

Probably the smartest thing you have done to date considering the nuances you provide with that "common sense" of yours .

quote:
However I will say that male sexuality is considered sexism far too often in today's society. I mean come on... Is it really a suprise that men see attractive women in a sexual light? Especially when said attractive women are dressed like characters the men like? The instance where she asked what they wanted to know about her and the guy answered "well,they would really like to see you naked" is one of those times where the rule "don't ask a question unless ya want an honest answer" applies. Was that inappropriate to say? You could say that... But That was the truth. Of course straight men want to see attractive women naked, it's basic biology. No amount of male shaming and political correctness is going to change that.

No this is not one of those times where "don't ask a question unless ya want an honest answer" applies. This is a setting where you use that little mass of Neurons that have been provided in that skull of yours and consider your surroundings. The professional environment that she was giving the interview in had no sexual angle to it whatsoever! She wasn't giving the interview in a casual social scene and that question was TOTALLY inappropriate at that time and place.

This has little to do with the projected "repression" (HA!) of Male Sexuality and everything to do with knowing when to control yourself given the environment that you are in. This situation wouldn't be any different if a man was in her place and was asked the same question by a woman.

Her costume isn't EGGING you on! Nor is it an exuse for you to throw in a remark like that when the interview in question has nothing to do with any sexual connotations.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 30, 2014 07:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well , I am about the most politically incorrect guy i know so my opinions are not going to be well received.lol IMO it is an asinine leap in logic to call male sexual expression sexism. Maybe it's inappropriate in certain instances, but is it sexism? No.. Would you agree that his comment " they really want to see you naked" is probably accurate? If so, why would denying that thought or not saying it make it not sexist? Or If you think just having those thoughts is sexist you are essentially saying male sexuality is inherently bad.

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 08:38 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
*sigh*

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 11:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
............

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 11:13 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Anyway, I'm done commenting on these topics.

Much love to all.

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PixieJane
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posted January 30, 2014 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I love cosplayers! And she's really good at it.

That aside, I thought you might like this:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/16/scott-adams-is-being-a-self-in/

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Ami Anne
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posted January 30, 2014 04:22 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
I actually have a lot to say but I'm going to keep most of it to myself as I don't have the energy to get into a pointless argument. However I will say that male sexuality is considered sexism far too often in today's society. I mean come on... Is it really a suprise that men see attractive women in a sexual light? Especially when said attractive women are dressed like characters the men like? The instance where she asked what they wanted to know about her and the guy answered "well,they would really like to see you naked" is one of those times where the rule "don't ask a question unless ya want an honest answer" applies. Was that inappropriate to say? You could say that... But That was the truth. Of course straight men want to see attractive women naked, it's basic biology. No amount of male shaming and political correctness is going to change that.


True

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Ami Anne
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posted January 30, 2014 04:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
Anyway, I'm done commenting on these topics.

Much love to all.




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http://www.mychristianpsychic.com/

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Xodian
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posted January 30, 2014 04:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Well , I am about the most politically incorrect guy i know so my opinions are not going to be well received.lol IMO it is an asinine leap in logic to call male sexual expression sexism. Maybe it's inappropriate in certain instances, but is it sexism? No.. Would you agree that his comment " they really want to see you naked" is probably accurate? If so, why would denying that thought or not saying it make it not sexist? Or If you think just having those thoughts is sexist you are essentially saying male sexuality is inherently bad.

Alright, let me put this scenario out there to counter this line of (what I believe to be) totally asinine thinking (and don't take this personally.)

Lets hypothetically (emphasis on hypothetically) say that in my mind, you are possibly the ugliest being that walked the face of this planet. If you agree that a male has the right to express his sexual opinions at all the wrong times, at all the wrong situations and settings where the discussion in question HAS NOTHING to do with sex at all... Well then, hypothetically, that should give me the right to randomly point out the hypothetical idea that you are hypothetically physically revolting, at any given topic of discussion on this forum; Regardless of if we are discussing physical beauty or not.

But as someone with a brain attached to my head, I won't do that given the fact that the topic of discussion probably doesn't has ANYTHING to do with grading someone's physical attractiveness.

Do you see what I mean now?

As for the second half of this whole "male sexuality" repression argument, well Pixie's link pretty much nailed it down:

quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I love cosplayers! And she's really good at it.

That aside, I thought you might like this:
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2011/06/16/scott-adams-is-being-a-self-in/


Thanks for that Pixie . And yeah she is awesome! You should contact her and express your personal opinions on the topic of cosplaying; She loves to encourage anyone and everyone who is interested in the art.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 30, 2014 07:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That would be a completely different issue all together because that would be purposely insulting someone. even though guys who make inappropriate out of place comments may be stupid, they aren't sexist. I honestly don't see how that could be construed as being sexist. I asked you in the last post if you would agree that men like seeing attractive women naked and you didn't answer. So I will ask again, would you agree that men like seeing attractive women naked? And if so why does it become sexist when a guy verbalizes that natural desire? Even though it may be inappropriate for the time and place? Are the men who are silent but secretly undressing her with their eyes sexist too?

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Xodian
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posted January 30, 2014 08:26 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You are not understanding the problem here. The men in question are Sexist because, the state of affairs surrounding the environment that they are asking questions in, have no sexual connotation related to it whatsoever. Its like, in their minds, her being sexy is all there is to it, or that her being sexy is the primary aspect that makes up her, her.

In a professional environment, where there is no focus on sexuality whatsoever; If the only question that comes to your mind at that particular moment is "how does she looks naked" considering all of the work she has done which is RELEVANT to the topic of the interview, then yes you are a sexually frustrated pig and I personally would start questioning if you had gotten laid recently.

And that isn't an act of repression against Male Sexuality. And if you don't get it after this, then goodness, I give up.

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 08:28 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Just don't be surprised if this happens.

How would you feel if some random creep said that to your girlfriend?
How would she feel?

If you expect other people to put themselves in your shoes, I suggest that you return it in kind.

Okay. I'm done.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 30, 2014 08:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Okay. I'm done.

You and Ian

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 08:47 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

You and Ian


Hahaha.
We just can't help ourselves, apparently.

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Ami Anne
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posted January 30, 2014 09:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
LOL

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aquaguy91
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posted January 30, 2014 10:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Xodian:
You are not understanding the problem here. The men in question are Sexist because, the state of affairs surrounding the environment that they are asking questions in, have no sexual connotation related to it whatsoever. Its like, in their minds, her being sexy is all there is to it, or that her being sexy is the primary aspect that makes up her, her.

In a professional environment, where there is no focus on sexuality whatsoever; If the only question that comes to your mind at that particular moment is "how does she looks naked" considering all of the work she has done which is RELEVANT to the topic of the interview, then yes you are a sexually frustrated pig and I personally would start questioning if you had gotten laid recently.

And that isn't an act of repression against Male Sexuality. And if you don't get it after this, then goodness, I give up.



I'm not saying it's smart to say something like that, I personally wouldn't. But at the same time I realize those thoughts are always going to be there in men. So why is verbalizing those thoughts sexist ? It's not. Stupid maybe but not sexist. As for the environment , it doesn't matter where you are men are always going to be men and have sexual thoughts about women, it's just reality. Seeing as how you brag about how sexy your wife is all the time I'm sure you thought "Gee, I would sure like to see her naked" when you first met her. Let me guess, you didn't I'm sure you were more interested in her career, I'm sure those piggish thoughts never crossed your mind.. Yeah , I'm not buying it. I'm sure those men in question said other things and asked other questions but she chose to focus on the sexual comments. I have seen this first hand with women I have dated. One girl in particular accused me of "only thinking about and wanting sex" even though 99% of what we did and talked about didn't remotely relate to sex or sexual topics. But when I did try to introduce sexual flirtation into the conversation suddenly I was a pig and only thought about sex. That wasn't me being a pig, that was me doing what guys do who are attracted to a girl and dating them. Her reaction was a giveaway that : she wasn't attracted to me or had a fundamental hatred for male sexuality . Some women hate sex and the thought that men have sexual desires , it's a fact. Such women should hang around gay men and other women. There are lots of women who are comfortable with sexuality and realize men are men and laugh off such things, they do not see such things as sexism. They see it as the men being bluntly honest. Take Howard Stern for example, he says what's on his mind and that is sex usually. Yet a lot of women come on his show.

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 10:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
You're missing the point (again).

Women often "laugh it off" when men make comments like that because they fear exactly the type of backlash that you are spouting here, claiming that they "don't like sex", or that they "hate male sexuality" and "should hang around gay guys and other women", etc.

You're essentially bashing their femininity because they aren't "good natured" enough to "laugh it off" when someone makes a really intrusive comment about their sexuality--which is a very personal thing for some people.
Or, they may have had very bad experiences or threats from men, and "laugh it off" because they're scarred from that type of thing, and they're afraid to stand up for themselves for fear of some sort of repercussion.

Obviously, people have sexual thoughts. That's not some sort of newsflash. Voicing them inappropriately has absolutely nothing to do with male sexuality.

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aquaguy91
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posted January 30, 2014 10:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Violets:
You're missing the point (again).

Women often "laugh it off" when men make comments like that because they fear exactly the type of backlash that you are spouting here, claiming that they "don't like sex", or that they "hate male sexuality" and "should hang around gay guys and other women", etc.

You're essentially bashing their femininity because they aren't "good natured" enough to "laugh it off" when someone makes a really intrusive comment about their sexuality--which is a very personal thing for some people.
Or, they may have had very bad experiences or threats from men, and "laugh it off" because they're scarred from that type of thing, and they're afraid to stand up for themselves for fear of some sort of repercussion.

Obviously, people have sexual thoughts. That's not some sort of newsflash. Voicing them inappropriately has absolutely nothing to do with male sexuality.



I'm not saying that the women shouldn't be offended by this, but I don't think men who such things are sexist either. I think men like that should avoid women who lack a sense of humor and are too sensitive. The fact remains that a lot of women could laugh off such comments and find them humorous. I, for one, have a crude sense of humor and speak my mind and avoid such women.

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Violets
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posted January 30, 2014 10:58 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I also have a crude sense of humor, but I suppose we all have our different definitions of "vulgar", "sense of humor", and "sensitive". In the situation that Xodian was posting about, it was just gross and offensive in general. There's no humor to be found in that.

*shrug*

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StarlightSmileSupreme
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posted January 31, 2014 12:08 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for StarlightSmileSupreme     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
And how would you act in front of your girlfriend's parents, Aqua?
All this bravado on the internet.

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Xodian
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posted January 31, 2014 12:16 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Xodian     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
As for the environment , it doesn't matter where you are men are always going to be men and have sexual thoughts about women, it's just reality. Seeing as how you brag about how sexy your wife is all the time I'm sure you thought "Gee, I would sure like to see her naked" when you first met her. Let me guess, you didn't I'm sure you were more interested in her career, I'm sure those piggish thoughts never crossed your mind.. Yeah , I'm not buying it.

Well since you want to get into the personal side of things... No actually, that wasn't the first thought that went through my mind when I met her. My actual first thoughts were "Damn! This girl can shoot! And she doesn't even has any military experience!" Long story short; We met at a school sponsored paintball game. And yeah, I won't deny it, I thought she was gorgeous! But I wasn't mentally undressing her at that point! It was after when I got to know her better that sexy thoughts came into play.

And if I could control myself like that given our astrological synasty, then I can't see how those douchebags in the interview couldn't.

quote:
I'm sure those men in question said other things and asked other questions but she chose to focus on the sexual comments.

That was the first God Damned question that was asked of her! I am sorry but if you are going to set the direction of the interview with a question like that from the beginning then yeah I can see why she focused on that and brought it up as an issue (coupled with all the other moronic comments she has to deal with in the past... "I didn't recognize you with your clothes on..." Yeah how classy. F**king s**thead.)

quote:
I have seen this first hand with women I have dated. One girl in particular accused me of "only thinking about and wanting sex" even though 99% of what we did and talked about didn't remotely relate to sex or sexual topics. But when I did try to introduce sexual flirtation into the conversation suddenly I was a pig and only thought about sex. That wasn't me being a pig, that was me doing what guys do who are attracted to a girl and dating them. Her reaction was a giveaway that : she wasn't attracted to me or had a fundamental hatred for male sexuality . Some women hate sex and the thought that men have sexual desires , it's a fact. Such women should hang around gay men and other women. There are lots of women who are comfortable with sexuality and realize men are men and laugh off such things, they do not see such things as sexism. They see it as the men being bluntly honest. Take Howard Stern for example, he says what's on his mind and that is sex usually. Yet a lot of women come on his show.

Now I am curious as to how you sexually flirted with this date of yours. If your comments revolved around the same case scenario as this interview or other comments she posted in her blog (i.e. "I want to put a baby in there" or "I want to see you naked" at a first date,) then I can see why she was offended. In this case scenario, its best that you follow your own advice on the matter and keep your distance from such women.

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Violets
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posted January 31, 2014 09:19 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Violets     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Edit.

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Sibyl
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Registered: Dec 2010

posted February 27, 2014 05:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
If you look at the world leaders' meeting in Davos, it is evident women are greatly misrepresented in the professional world. Hell it is an indisputable fact. There are just thousands upon thousands of studies and statistics you can look at. It is not a matter of opinion.
http://www.weforum.org/issues/global-gender-gap

I'm so glad people are working on these issues.

As a matter of interesting fact I just attended a talk at my uni with someone who had gathered all the data on how equality affects corruption. The more equal the ratio between men and women (both in labor markets, corporations and government), the less corruption there is. Now isn't that fascinating?

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