posted February 16, 2014 02:00 PM            

I'm currently pondering on this. I identify mostly as an humanist/individualist and I am an entity of its own that has priority over everything else. I have troubles with belonging because I don't want to be associated with a group and lose my individual identity. I don't know why I view it like such a threat, I don't think they exclude themselves that much. I explain it mostly due to my unfortunate upbringing, believing or wanting to believe I was adopted, not identifying with my own culture and so on. I never went to reunions, proms and graduation parties. I don't follow fashion or trends. I could spend days not talking with another person, ANY person, not even online. Aquarius intercepted in the first house? Uranus in the 10th conjunct Jupiter, ruler of the 11th? Jup/Uranus trine Sun? Maybe. There is no doubt one of my greatest struggles was to assess my identity and my individuality, because they have been suppressed soon after my start in this life and I was coerced into walking a path of submission that was never mine to walk on.

However there is another side of the coin. In my few moments of searching to be a part of a group, an organization or anything alike, I have felt a greater sense of happiness, purpose and motivation. I cannot deny that. It goes deeper than having friends or a group of friends, that's not big scale enough for me, it's about being part of something important. And no, actually that is not enough either. It's about being part of something important that has a cause I strongly believe in. There's a little activist in me waiting to get out. I felt it truly for the first time at around 21 when I started doing volunteer work popularizing blood donation. I seriously considered joining Doctors without borders for a while and the thought hasn't yet left my mind completely. My career offered this sort of fulfillment for a while but in the last 2 years or so that has not been the case. I stopped believing in it, at least in the kind of work I currently do. And up until now my new found individuality was enough to shut this need off.

I think this newly acknowledged need is mostly on behalf of Moon-Neptune in the 11th. However, I still feel a sense of conflict between choosing to stay a lone wolf and joining a pack with a humanitarian purpose. That's my story, so far.

Which is yours? Which type are you? Ever struggled with any of these?

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posted February 16, 2014 03:39 PM            

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Originally posted by Hera:
Charlie, from some of your posts I gather you lean more toward individualism than collectivism as well?

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I believe people tend to look for a safety net when none is really needed. I don't want to "belong" anywhere but with me. Nothing on this planet will make me like myself better if I don't like myself so I choose to walk alone although certain things point to me being better off joining forces.

posted February 16, 2014 06:17 PM            

I like being a part of a group until I have enough of that and/or their activities,"purpose" and values suppress my own - time to detach. I run alone feeling content until I reach a point where I think I should join forces with others.

In the rare occasion, I meet one or two that like to run with me, so suddenly I become a part of a "pack".

Family is another matter.

Hehe I first stepped into my current work industry when I was 16. At first it felt great, I believed in the "cause". Then that feeling just faded coz I felt like they were trying to brainwash me into thinking that it's something greater than what it is. What used to inspire now fall flat.

posted February 16, 2014 08:31 PM            

I fit in nowhere and everywhere so to speak

For me Hera, what people want from me is not $$ or skill,what is the most beneficial is..listening..want my time and company

posted February 16, 2014 08:38 PM              

I enjoy being a rather solitary part of that type of group, and I always have friends in that environment (most of my good friendships were formed at work).

But I'm always still just sort of doing my own thing, and prefer my privacy.

Groups of people can be gossipy, which I dislike. Also, my outer planet stuff does make me a little odd in a lot of group settings, and I don't often identify with people unless there's a very specific common interest.

If I have to be around a bunch of uptight soccer moms, for example, I just want to sit by myself and sort of be left alone. Really, I would prefer to not be there at all.

So, while I prefer to have friends who share a common theme or interest with me, I still like to be my own separate person with plenty of space. And I probably isolate myself too much, but it doesn't bother me that often.

I think I'm just super picky about who I hang out with, and I really do need a strong common interest with the people I do spend my time around. Or at least a basic understanding/communication.

posted February 17, 2014 01:12 AM              

I feel like people who want to be pack leaders often feel unappreciated by their peers and colleagues. No offense to anyone
I don't belong to groups because I'm NOT in HS so I surround myself with people I actually respect.

posted February 18, 2014 12:47 AM            

There are times, when what folks know as "padre" goes away and I b/c such a massive ******* /self centered that I destroy everything that was built

posted February 18, 2014 11:36 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:

You seem to be working with the assumption that getting along with others means giving up who you are and I don't hold to that notion. Nor do I believe that by eschewing a group that you somehow keep your self-identity pure, even the most radical individual is going to be affected by their upbringing and the people they interact with, even those they don't want to interact with, and even being shunned is going to continue to shape who you are as much as getting along. To me, radical individualism (ie, lone wolf in the context of this thread) is as unhealthy as radical conformity, and both are generally inspired by fear...

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posted February 18, 2014 11:50 AM            

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
[b]Sharing the positive makes the positive that much better (understand?) while sharing the bad makes the bad easier to deal with, so we mutually share in selfless ways for selfish reasons. (To be clear, I don't consider all forms of selfishness to be bad nor all forms of selflessness to be good, both can be healthy or toxic.) If you don't know what I mean then ask, not everyone is wired this way.

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posted February 18, 2014 01:07 PM              

I've done really well in those situations, and while I don't lose my identity, everything I do for that group is out of love for the people we're helping, and I enjoy dedicating a lot of my personal time to it.

I can't do that as much now that I have a toddler, so I dedicate my time to the places that benefit him and other kids instead.

But it has to be something that I *really* believe in. Otherwise, I prefer to just do what I can on a personal level, sometimes networking with a handful of others that I go out of my way to connect with.

posted February 18, 2014 01:29 PM            

That's okay, I just endure these uncomfortable moments and focus on the positive. However, I would not join an officially Christian play group where I had to sign a document certifying my religious persuasion, even if the group functioned the exact same way as my informal group.

posted February 18, 2014 01:38 PM            

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Originally posted by Violets:
I like to play a reasonably key role in those situations though...

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Me too, I'm okay with a bit of limelight.

#LeoRising

posted February 18, 2014 04:09 PM              

quote:

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Originally posted by Faith:
Me too, I'm okay with a bit of limelight.

#LeoRising

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Amen, sister!

posted February 18, 2014 11:20 PM            

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Originally posted by Hera:
I was mostly pondering about large groups, even masses, in which most certainly you lose your individuality (like a worker bee in its colony or a soldier in an army - the interest here is to reduce focus on individuality and to switch it to belonging to a group, with "a life of its own", whose interests become more important than your needs, desires and even life)

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Well in that case I lean individualist. My Libra makes it difficult to choose a side save in the most extreme cases and my Sag is fascinated by differences. Lines on a map are completely arbitrary to me and parades do nothing for me. If I ever did join the military (and I wouldn't, at least not in the US until the character changed) it would be purely as a job. But I haven't noticed many eager to feel they belong by signing up with the military (though recruiters do try to get boys to sign up ASAP and not being entirely honest about it).

Still, in the US anyway, the country can't become much of a hive mind because there are too many contrary views on what it even means to be an American, what American values are and what patriotic means (does it mean submission to the government or vigilance against it?), what's worth fighting for, etc. I heard a similar sitch existed in Soviet Russia despite all efforts to crush it (though officially they were unified, yet people continue to marry in the same ethnic groups, etc, and the Ukraine never got over its own resentments).