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Author Topic:   Do You Think This is an Example of a Crazy making Convo
Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
Registered: Sep 2010

posted May 11, 2014 04:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Mom: I have some beautiful things from your grandmothers troussea(sp) would you like them? They are not really your style because they are lace things and embroidery.

Me:Well, it is not about style, it is about they were hers.

Mom; Well, they need to be taken care of.

Me;How do you take care of them?

Mom; I put them in a box.

Me: I can do that.

Mom: But they have to be washed and rolled.

Me:But YOU kept them in a box.

Mom: Well,they are antique and prolly worth a lot so I can sell them.

Me: Sell them, then, and keep the money. You just returned two things you said you wanted to save money.

Mom: I don't need the money. I will see if some of the cousins want some. I am not going to give them all to you. I will give you one.

Me: Ok

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Sibyl
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From: Uranus
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posted May 11, 2014 04:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Sibyl     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Your conversation is obviously dysfunctional. You are not talking on the same wavelength/ about the same things. She wants a reaction from you, she wants you to tell her how much you want the items and how much you will appreciate them. You are reluctant to do so because you do not want to give her any power. She is then offended due to your (seemingly) lack of reaction/care and prods you to say that you want the items. You do not, so she punishes you not by removing what she said she was going to give you (she wants you to have it), but by diminishing it. This is another ploy to make you ask for more. I'm guessing you do not wish to indulge her.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 04:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
No, S. I really wanted them!! I was excited. I wanted to have them but then when I wanted to have them, she took them away, it seems to me.
Thanks for you help, too

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 05:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I wanted to put this up here because I could detach and look at it. Thank God, I can detach and not see her as part of me anymore. It is a total miracle, if you knew how I was when I started.

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Odette
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posted May 11, 2014 05:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Odette     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I would avoid conversations with her. When she first asked 'Do you want them'.. I would've said: 'Sure. I'll pick them up tomorrow morning.' And regardless of anything else she replied I would be there the next morning and take the items.

When you want something from her - just take what you want... Don't discuss it much beforehand.

This is just my opinion, because I know she's a very difficult person.
Or alternatively, ignore her completely and don't reply at all.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 05:06 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Odette:
I would avoid conversations with her. When she first asked 'Do you want them'.. I would've said: 'Sure. I'll pick them up tomorrow morning.' And regardless of anything else she replied I would be there the next morning and take the items.

When you want something from her - just take what you want... Don't discuss it much beforehand.

This is just my opinion, because I know she's a very difficult person.
Or alternatively, ignore her completely and don't reply at all.



Odette, I have to SEE. My Neptune conj her Moon/Sado, exact. I can't see what is happening and I blame myself. That is why it is so important for me to be able to detach like I am and see that her behavior is not because I am lacking or I am deficient. I blamed myself for how she treated me. Hence, I need to SEE it for what it is. Then, I can be free.

I cannot see out of the Neptune fog and hence blamed myself for all our interactions such as this or anything.

That is why it is so important to me, Odette. Thanks for responding

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 05:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
The end game would be that I am bad somehow. I have to beg that I will be a good housekeeper and take care of them or I have to get angry that she is gonna give them to other people after telling me I can have them. Either way, I lose. She will argue that I AM a bad housekeeper. She will argue that I can't have all of them because I don't need all of them, so she always looks good and I always look bad.

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
That is the kind of thing my mother would do with me in the past so I understand how hurtful it can be. It does sound like a strange power thing. My mum has four sisters and I trace it back to her childhood of them fighting over material things and symbolism invested in it. Is it possible your mother had some kind of materials as war territory for affection growing up?

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Ami Anne
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posted May 11, 2014 05:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by florence:
That is the kind of thing my mother would do with me in the past so I understand how hurtful it can be. It does sound like a strange power thing. My mum has four sisters and I trace it back to her childhood of them fighting over material things and symbolism invested in it. Is it possible your mother had some kind of materials as war territory for affection growing up?

Thanks for being there, Florence. I am in so much pain about the whole thing that I am gonna take a break and will be back to answer

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 06:01 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Florence

The outcome of everything is that I am a jerk, selfish, neurotic or something.

She likes to say I am a hoarder. That is prolly what she was gonna whack me with here.

I am not a hoarder. I do feel a sense that I will be without things so I buy too much.

That is true. It is an emotional poverty, I guess you could say but it is not like serious hoarding lol

I think that if I said I wanted ALL of these, she would say I was a hoarder.

If I said I would take care of them, she would say I was a bad housekeeper.

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 06:33 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Florence

The outcome of everything is that I am a jerk, selfish, neurotic or something.

She likes to say I am a hoarder. That is prolly what she was gonna whack me with here.
I am not a hoarder. I do feel a sense that I will be without things so I buy too much.

That is true. It is an emotional poverty, I guess you could say but it is not like serious hoarding lol

I think that if I said I wanted ALL of these, she would say I was a hoarder.

If I said I would take care of them, she would say I was a bad housekeeper.


Maybe you sense she's going to retract the kind gesture as I suppose it always worked with my mum but still it would hurt more than no gesture at all.. And yes my mum would turn these things into a criticism, is like weighing in a stake on the table to be able to do that, pulling you into it.

Something I can't explain myself or understand like you .. Only now we have a better relationship it doesn't happen anymore, it stopped happening around the time it stopped hurting which was also probably around the time she once saw clearly the distress and felt it ... Which if its at all similar you might think that's an impossibility but I thought it was in my case and it did happen. I think it took that to break through the coldness and those kind gestures always seemed retracted as a kind of fear of being soft or gentle.

Maybe it isn't all similar but can understand I think the emotions you must be feeling. Don't know how you can work through it but maybe one day it will be different

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 06:36 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
and those kind gestures always seemed retracted as a kind of fear of being soft or gentle.

Could be this, Florence. I was feeling really good cuz I was making the best relationship I could from it. I bought her a nice Mother's Day present and I was ignoring a lot of things. I felt really good! Then, she does this and I feel really sad again.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 06:38 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
In which House is your Chiron, Florence?

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 06:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Shouldn't have to feel like you have to navigate around her good side though. I used to try keep things light, not react sensitively but it was when I completely lost it ... It kind of shook her out of it. Youre trying to avoid confrontation ? Looking back either my avoiding that was a symptom or cause of the kind of .. Well just like the conversation you describe. Like trying to build foundations on something too delicately laid and unbalanced. I don't know how you get from that to something better but it is possible and might take something dramatic happening. Not suggesting you go out for that because guess things just happen but anyway ... It's so hard, I know why it's easier sometimes to be away from it.

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 06:44 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Chiron is house 6 Taurus. No pain with my father so is either my mum or its more to do with my moon, my mums very saturnian

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 06:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by florence:
Chiron is house 6 Taurus. No pain with my father so is either my mum or its more to do with my moon, my mums very saturnian


6 may be health or feeling you are never good enough for service. Do you have either of these, Florence dear?

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Ami Anne
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posted May 11, 2014 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by florence:
Shouldn't have to feel like you have to navigate around her good side though. I used to try keep things light, not react sensitively but it was when I completely lost it ... It kind of shook her out of it. Youre trying to avoid confrontation ? Looking back either my avoiding that was a symptom or cause of the kind of .. Well just like the conversation you describe. Like trying to build foundations on something too delicately laid and unbalanced. I don't know how you get from that to something better but it is possible and might take something dramatic happening. Not suggesting you go out for that because guess things just happen but anyway ... It's so hard, I know why it's easier sometimes to be away from it.


I stopped all contact for almost a year and it hurt really badly. My son told me I should try to salvage what I could and I have been doing that and feeling much better but the MEANNESS and the trying to hurt me is really, really hard

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 06:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

6 may be health or feeling you are never good enough for service. Do you have either of these, Florence dear?



My health seems ok. I feel safe I suppose in a service role and measuring worth in that tangible way.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To me, if a person does not have pain in that house, I think the time of birth may be wrong. From what I have seen, the House of Chiron is our worst pain. Can you relate to Chiron in the 5th or 7th?

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 06:54 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:

I stopped all contact for almost a year and it hurt really badly. My son told me I should try to salvage what I could and I have been doing that and feeling much better but the MEANNESS and the trying to hurt me is really, really hard



I did it for 6 months and felt it rested on me even more when we reunited to keep things level. I think like you I did feel I needed to react a certain way to avoid it escalating? It's easier when feel don't need to be that way to be accepted and she will pick p on that too but it's just getting to that point

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 07:00 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
To me, if a person does not have pain in that house, I think the time of birth may be wrong. From what I have seen, the House of Chiron is our worst pain. Can you relate to Chiron in the 5th or 7th?


Yes I can to both. I always thought it was because I feel I have an awkward body is that h6 or maybe Taurus. I will have to re-read the descs. But my h6 is small, Chiron is close to h7 and no relationship has been without its pain.

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Ami Anne
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From: Pluto/house next to NickiG
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posted May 11, 2014 07:05 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
To me, the 5th House is a fear of letting go and being your inner child like joking, playing etc

7th is pain with intimate relationships

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florence
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posted May 11, 2014 07:17 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for florence     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ami Anne:
To me, the 5th House is a fear of letting go and being your inner child like joking, playing etc

7th is pain with intimate relationships


I have both sometimes but Saturn is in Leo conjunction mc I thought explained my fear of letting go.

I'll bear the Chiron house thing in mind tho and try read up and see which most fits.

I do find mundane tasks bordering on painful, or have in the past. And that was something my mum and I couldn't get over, as she'd attack me on housekeeping things too

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Ami Anne
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posted May 11, 2014 07:31 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Well, one house will come forward as your most painful house if you focus on it, I think.

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Ami Anne
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posted May 11, 2014 07:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Ami Anne     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I have both sometimes but Saturn is in Leo conjunction mc I thought explained my fear of letting go.

This is a classic 5th House Chiron. My intuition is that you have a 5th house chiron

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