Author
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Topic: Would you rather be a concubine to a rich, sexy man or a wife to a poor, ugly man?
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KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 02, 2014 07:43 PM
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BellaFenice Knowflake Posts: 982 From: Pseudo-Leo with a 1st House Stellium Registered: Sep 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 08:51 PM
LOLOLOLI respect your hustle. Answer: neither. Vedic keeps telling me I will be independently wealthy so.... IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 4948 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 02, 2014 09:47 PM
Put like that...Serious or not this woman makes a case why she'd rather be a mistress than a wife: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staar/who-emwouldntem-rather-be_b_143674.html IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 4948 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 02, 2014 09:53 PM
That said, a love so strong that it was more powerful than temporal concerns as wealth or looks does sound blissful...I can't recall which thread it was but I think it was fairly recent (but more than a month ago) that someone posted a pic of love recognizing each other through spirit rather than body. These pics get posted all over the place so I wouldn't even know where to begin to look for it, but if anyone knows the pic I'm talking about and where to find it then you should post it here. If nothing else, it's sweet. IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 02, 2014 09:54 PM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: Put like that...Serious or not this woman makes a case why she'd rather be a mistress than a wife: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/staar/who-emwouldntem-rather-be_b_143674.html
Interesting. But she states, "Being a kept woman used to be so acceptable." In what time period, place, country, and culture is she talking about??? well at least in American/European culture. IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 02, 2014 09:56 PM
"Too many American men complain about not having sexy wives when they are limpid do-nothing submissive males themselves. What the mistress does is to give the man the veneer of being dominant/desirable (for the right price) when the opposite is usually the truth. I think a relationship without some form of mutually agreed on chain of command is like having a sailing boat with no skipper (whether male for female). There WILL be chaos and dissatisfaction." ^ this is true
the first part about American men, the rest nope. IP: Logged |
Barbiegirl19 Knowflake Posts: 4521 From: Pluto with DeepFreeze Registered: Jul 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 09:57 PM
I'd marry a poor, ugly man(what if he isn't ugly to me lol) Rather have respect and dignity. If I married him then he and I love each other, and that's all that matters to me. Humans nowadays are just downright scary. I loathe for the future. IP: Logged |
Chiemi Moderator Posts: 1883 From: Michigan Registered: Feb 2012
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posted July 02, 2014 10:04 PM
Wife. All that gold and glitter never lasts, I'll pass. (hey that rhymed lol ) IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme Knowflake Posts: 8933 From: neptune Registered: Nov 2012
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posted July 02, 2014 10:46 PM
I wouldn't want to be either one. The only way I would be the concubine is if I never had to see the man and he just gave me a check for an allowance each week through his secretary or something. It would be perfect for me if I were the one that wasn't favored but just got paid anyway it would be the best of both worlds although concubines do not get paid...or do they?IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 4948 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 02, 2014 10:51 PM
quote: Originally posted by KarkaQueen: But she states, "Being a kept woman used to be so acceptable." In what time period, place, country, and culture is she talking about??? well at least in American/European culture.
I'm not sure what exactly she's referring to, but it wouldn't surprise me if mistresses were accorded a grudging respect many wives lacked in say the first half of the 20th century. Mistresses (including "royal mistresses") and courtesans have a long history and tradition, some of them romanticized today. (Keep in mind that marriage back then, especially among royalty, was often more out of politics and business rather than love, and it wasn't unknown for both spouses to keep their preferred partner on the side, I've read of royal men who paid boy toys to take care of his wife when they'd married each other out of obligation, though of course he tended to have his own mistresses as well.) As capitalism moved the wealth of Europe into the "new rich" these lower class families who ascended aped the royalty (and often tried to marry into royalty, though the only way that was normally allowed was when a royal family was desperate for money), and that could include mistresses. The Victorians (and many who came after them) kept many things secret but it was a society rife with illicit sex and opium dens and plenty of drugs were legal household products (heck, they even sold Mother's Little Helper). In such an atmosphere and with a tradition of courtesans and mistresses, I could see the men competing for mistresses and that mistresses, not stuck with a man, could transfer affection to another so that a man who wanted to keep her had to treat her right (unlike his wife) as there was always another man who could offer a better deal and that would engender grudging respect among many men...though of course women would hate her, but then women are typically used to hating each other anyway, and I expect one who could succeed as a mistress to the wealthy and powerful would have a lot of self-confidence and not really care about the haters. I want to emphasize that this is conjecture on my part. I'm not certain what she was thinking of when she said that, and she may have even been speaking entirely tongue in cheek at that moment. Btw, it occurs to me that you may have meant your question rhetorically and dismissively in which case I apologize for answering. I do find these things interesting as I do like to know how things work in practice (as opposed to the theory described in the propaganda pamphlets) and sometimes I forget that others don't care to know and can even take pride in not knowing. And ever since I was a kid I happily looked up information for others as well as for myself. I came real close to deciding to get a MLS (Mastery of Library Science) in which to be a reference librarian as I just have the perfect temperament for it. IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze Knowflake Posts: 2872 From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19 Registered: Nov 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 11:22 PM
"Concubine" It's just one of those words that makes me giggle. IP: Logged |
BellaFenice Knowflake Posts: 982 From: Pseudo-Leo with a 1st House Stellium Registered: Sep 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 11:27 PM
"Being a kept woman used to be so acceptable. Today being a mistress is practically obsolete. Men have forgotten the purpose of having a mistress; they're so used to getting everything for free. Everyone assumes you are a common prostitute! I ask you, do common prostitutes shop at Neimans, mingle with royalty, dine at Le Cirque . . . well, maybe. I like jetting around the world on a moment's notice, in a G5 of course. I mix with the cream of society, princes, pop stars, politicians. I don't kiss and tell, too much. Well, I did have Mick Jagger -- but then again who hasn't? I don't want to take anyone's husband. Being a mistress isn't just an occupation... it's a state of mind. So, ladies if you are a wife -- remember, act like a mistress -- and he'll treat you like on." Ugh. What a loser. So many things wrong here and I don't even know where to start. So acting like your only purpose is being a sex toy is worth the money, fame, and materialism? You know Staar (..is that your porno name?) people do marry for reasons other than physical pleasures. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme Knowflake Posts: 8933 From: neptune Registered: Nov 2012
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posted July 02, 2014 11:35 PM
@ Bella: Who?Concubine reminds me of Porcupine lol. IP: Logged |
aquaguy91 Moderator Posts: 9785 From: tennessee Registered: Jan 2012
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posted July 02, 2014 11:37 PM
I would want to be the rich guy with concubines.IP: Logged |
DeepFreeze Knowflake Posts: 2872 From: Pluto with Barbiegirl19 Registered: Nov 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 11:49 PM
Even if I were rich... Other than when I'm in my exotic car, no one would know. I'd have some "average" car that I putzed around in. Dress casual, etc. No huge house or anything. Anyway.... Back to scheduled programming. Ever see those videos of guys walking up to women, asking them out, getting rejected, then they walk to their exotic car and the women come running? (long question!) So pathetic.... Makes me sad. IP: Logged |
Barbiegirl19 Knowflake Posts: 4521 From: Pluto with DeepFreeze Registered: Jul 2013
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posted July 02, 2014 11:57 PM
quote: Originally posted by DeepFreeze: Even if I were rich... Other than when I'm in my exotic car, no one would know. I'd have some "average" car that I putzed around in. Dress casual, etc. No huge house or anything. Anyway.... Back to scheduled programming. Ever see those videos of guys walking up to women, asking them out, getting rejected, then they walk to their exotic car and the women come running? (long question!) So pathetic.... Makes me sad.
http://youtu.be/XbYNAZxcWh4 and http://youtu.be/Ve46peMWU5w These are pretty sad too but hilarious!! IP: Logged |
BellaFenice Knowflake Posts: 982 From: Pseudo-Leo with a 1st House Stellium Registered: Sep 2013
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posted July 03, 2014 12:53 AM
quote: Originally posted by StarlightSmileSupreme: @ Bella: Who?Concubine reminds me of Porcupine lol.
The person who wrote the article went by that name. IP: Logged |
StarlightSmileSupreme Knowflake Posts: 8933 From: neptune Registered: Nov 2012
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posted July 03, 2014 12:58 AM
quote: Originally posted by BellaFenice: The person who wrote the article went by that name.
Oh, lol. IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 03, 2014 01:02 AM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: I'm not sure what exactly she's referring to, but it wouldn't surprise me if mistresses were accorded a grudging respect many wives lacked in say the first half of the 20th century. Mistresses (including "royal mistresses") and courtesans have a long history and tradition, some of them romanticized today. (Keep in mind that marriage back then, especially among royalty, was often more out of politics and business rather than love, and it wasn't unknown for both spouses to keep their preferred partner on the side, I've read of royal men who paid boy toys to take care of his wife when they'd married each other out of obligation, though of course he tended to have his own mistresses as well.) As capitalism moved the wealth of Europe into the "new rich" these lower class families who ascended aped the royalty (and often tried to marry into royalty, though the only way that was normally allowed was when a royal family was desperate for money), and that could include mistresses. The Victorians (and many who came after them) kept many things secret but it was a society rife with illicit sex and opium dens and plenty of drugs were legal household products (heck, they even sold Mother's Little Helper). In such an atmosphere and with a tradition of courtesans and mistresses, I could see the men competing for mistresses and that mistresses, not stuck with a man, could transfer affection to another so that a man who wanted to keep her had to treat her right (unlike his wife) as there was always another man who could offer a better deal and that would engender grudging respect among many men...though of course women would hate her, but then women are typically used to hating each other anyway, and I expect one who could succeed as a mistress to the wealthy and powerful would have a lot of self-confidence and not really care about the haters. I want to emphasize that this is conjecture on my part. I'm not certain what she was thinking of when she said that, and she may have even been speaking entirely tongue in cheek at that moment. Btw, it occurs to me that you may have meant your question rhetorically and dismissively in which case I apologize for answering. I do find these things interesting as I do like to know how things work in practice (as opposed to the theory described in the propaganda pamphlets) and sometimes I forget that others don't care to know and can even take pride in not knowing. And ever since I was a kid I happily looked up information for others as well as for myself. I came real close to deciding to get a MLS (Mastery of Library Science) in which to be a reference librarian as I just have the perfect temperament for it.
No that was interesting, I'm familiar with 19th century concubinage and sexual relations myself. Though they do tend to switch back and forth, sometimes in the 19c I would hear men dismissing men who openly had concubines or who married them (while keeping concubines themselves). These men were aristocrats but in the planter system in the West Indies.. not sure if that counts as the same people you're talking about. IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 03, 2014 01:04 AM
quote: Originally posted by Barbiegirl19: [QUOTE]Originally posted by DeepFreeze: [b]Even if I were rich... Other than when I'm in my exotic car, no one would know. I'd have some "average" car that I putzed around in. Dress casual, etc. No huge house or anything. Anyway.... Back to scheduled programming. Ever see those videos of guys walking up to women, asking them out, getting rejected, then they walk to their exotic car and the women come running? (long question!) So pathetic.... Makes me sad.
http://youtu.be/XbYNAZxcWh4 and http://youtu.be/Ve46peMWU5w These are pretty sad too but hilarious!![/B][/QUOTE] To be fair but the women look ill-mannered and dressed in a certain matter that would show a low moral character tho im not the one to judge the way women dress you can tell at this time IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 4948 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 03, 2014 01:15 AM
I should point out that the role of concubine has changed in history as well and is sometimes the equivalent to mistress but other times have a regular and honorable place in society. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage If I were to live well over a thousand years ago, I could think of much worse than being a harem girl (especially if there were many in the harem), some of them lived a luxurious and safe existence compared to most women. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it would be way above many other possibilities. (My first choice would be in a very isolated village or tribe that wasn't interesting to raiders but had enough resources that starvation wasn't likely and some herbal medicines were available, especially for a merciful death when needed. And when separated like that a very poor, rural existence can seem very wealthy when you don't have anything to compare it to.) I found the part of concubinage in Louisiana interesting and reminds me of a guy I once knew. He was black but looked down on other black people and took offense if you called him that. He said, "I'm a Frenchman." He was Creole (and thus likely descended from a concubine), IIRC. IP: Logged |
Barbiegirl19 Knowflake Posts: 4521 From: Pluto with DeepFreeze Registered: Jul 2013
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posted July 03, 2014 01:25 AM
There was never anything honorable about being a concubine It was frowned upon then and still is today. I'd rather die than w hore myself. IP: Logged |
mercuranian Knowflake Posts: 881 From: not here Registered: Apr 2009
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posted July 03, 2014 01:25 AM
i'd wanna be with whichever one i loved and was attracted to. duh IP: Logged |
KarkaQueen Knowflake Posts: 5775 From: In my 1st house Uranus and Neptune Registered: May 2011
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posted July 03, 2014 01:28 AM
quote: Originally posted by PixieJane: I should point out that the role of concubine has changed in history as well and is sometimes the equivalent to mistress but other times have a regular and honorable place in society. More here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concubinage If I were to live well over a thousand years ago, I could think of much worse than being a harem girl (especially if there were many in the harem), some of them lived a luxurious and safe existence compared to most women. It wouldn't be my first choice, but it would be way above many other possibilities. (My first choice would be in a very isolated village or tribe that wasn't interesting to raiders but had enough resources that starvation wasn't likely and some herbal medicines were available, especially for a merciful death when needed. And when separated like that a very poor, rural existence can seem very wealthy when you don't have anything to compare it to.) I found the part of concubinage in Louisiana interesting and reminds me of a guy I once knew. He was black but looked down on other black people and took offense if you called him that. He said, "I'm a Frenchman." He was Creole (and thus likely descended from a concubine), IIRC.
you know what i dont like talking about this on a website like lindaland lol *edit* IP: Logged |
PixieJane Moderator Posts: 4948 From: CA Registered: Oct 2010
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posted July 03, 2014 02:58 AM
Thought since I threw out some of the history of concubines and mistresses that I could throw in that the nature of marriage varies by a lot as well and can include concubines in it (Solomon of the Bible was said to have 300): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marriage I'd hate to think some guy could marry me by raping me and then paying my dad say $50, but in Deuteronomy 22 one loophole is that if a man rapes a virgin he can pay her father "father fifty shekels of silver" and they get married (and it's not up to her). Even in Greece I think a man could get out of rape charge if he married his victim or even just agreed he would until the 1970s (not sure on that), didn't even have to pay the father anything, and marital rape was legal until the 21st century. The Ancient Greeks would abduct women of lands they conquered for wives, concubines, or drudge slavery depending on what they were after. ETA: had to add this, it makes me laugh: http://youtu.be/PP0bLdOplyk?t=7s IP: Logged |