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Author Topic:   National pride... & prejudice
Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 10, 2014 11:23 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I was talking with 7th Guardian about this on the psychic thread, and thought it might be a good idea to open the conversation to others.

I'm curious: how do you feel about your nationality? Or race?

How does it affect your life, your goals, your sense of identity...and so on? Do other people make annoying assumptions about you, based on your nationality...and if so, how prevalent is that experience, in your life?

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teasel
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posted October 10, 2014 11:51 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for teasel     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Yes. I usually have positive assumptions made about me, based on my English accent. Negative assumptions are made about all of us in the U.S. and it puts my back up.

All sorts of assumptions are made about me, because I'm a woman. I used to get into disagreements/arguments on a different forum, with guys who assumed that women have it so much easier. That's why I don't get into it here - I'm exhausted, and realized that it was a big waste of time.

I've had assumptions made about my character - some by people here. Most are good, a few are not. Again, exhausting.

One big one is character assumptions that were also made about me when everything was going on at home, one being that I wasn't grateful for anything that I've been given, grateful for being taken care of. It's like some people get this set vision of you, and then they proceed to look down their noses at you - dehumanize you, so they don't have to be kind, or treat you with respect. They added to everything, and I was wondering myself, if I was actually just a piece of **** , after a while. Things have been balancing out, but I'm still trying to see if I can return to the "before".

I've had assumptions made about me, my whole life.

I'll edit all of this out later. One thing that bothers me is that we aren't allowed to complain about anything, because we have a rood over our heads. Every single time I feel a complaint coming on, I think of how lucky I am in other ways, but it doesn't take away from the fact that we do have every right to our worry (we have relatives and friendships, too - we get sick, too), and we carry around our own fears.

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PixieJane
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posted October 11, 2014 01:15 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Nationality? An accident of birth. My childhood experiences made me thank myself for my freedoms. I could not care less if we were part of Mexico or Canada or spoke English or French or Cantonese. No matter the case we'd still have parades and be grateful for our "freedoms." Which might be more under different powers given the number of laws and percentage of the population locked up in our prison system at any moment, among other things I could point out. It's just a non-issue to me.

That said, being tied into local communities and systems does mean immigrating is inconvenient. I've seriously considered being an expat more than once and may do it yet, but it's all circumstantial, which it would be about the same if I were born & raised in any other country.

I didn't realize it for a long while but I now realize that my experiences would've been much different had I been born another race, no matter how illusory race is. Growing up white in Texas and the United States of my socioeconomic class has influenced me (as has my specific family) but I hesitate to say as much as a natal chart (that's debatable). Some values were imparted into me partially or wholly and others I rebelled against, and some things are just a big surprise to those who think they know me because of my accent.

Though interesting about my experiencing Freya when Granny prayed for me...makes me think her coming from a strong Swedish lineage that was passed into me had a mythical as well as physical component (that is, had I come from a traditional Greek family, perhaps I'd have experienced Artemis instead of Freya)...though I suspect it comes more for being "raised (old) Swedish" (that is, from Swedish settlers who kept many old ways mixed in with some other elements conducive to Scandinavian symbols) than being born with the biology...I base that on how many seem drawn to deities of other races/cultures if they incorporate some of their worldview into their personal character (so maybe like "tuned to a certain channel in the collective unconscious").

I don't think I've been typecast that much for being an American, though it's obviously had some influence on my character, and I don't doubt that if I'd grown up in Scotland or Sweden (let alone somewhere very different than from my roots) then I'd be different in some ways. Still, statehood is as arbitrary as race...nevertheless, by enough people acting as if its real it has real world effects (similar to money if you think about it...it works on faith with real world consequences as a result).

What I've found is Americans who stereotype me for my accent. Though it's possible for me to suppress it (and at one time did for awhile though strong emotion, good or bad, would let it out), I have a strong Texas twang to my talk so people can easily associate me with the state and thus assume a lot of things they shouldn't. And yeah, it can be annoying at times, though also funny at others. In some ways it's even useful because it can be exotic and help people remember me which means I get first crack at certain business opportunities over others (and then there was that really annoying guy who was terrible to me because of my accent and I burned him bad by pretending to be the idiot he thought I was as I played him for a fool--not my most enlightened action, but one I still don't regret).

Heck, I got into Hannah Montana over the accent thing. That show played a lot when I worked with kids but I ignored it until I caught the ep where she had to deal with some snooty Californians who reacted to her Southern accent that had me very sympathetic to her (as I've been there), and even laughing. And because I got pulled into the show I ended up making a lot of money taking kids to see the movie years later where my life would change for the better (that is if I hadn't gotten into Hannah Montana then my life would be very different now, though there were more flaps of the butterfly wings at work there).

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12muddy
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posted October 11, 2014 02:46 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for 12muddy     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel neutral about my nationality at best.

For the most part, I see cultural values as shackles, although I don’t reject all of them. They sure affect my life in some ways (for example, the ties I have with my parents).

Some people reacted negatively when they found out that I’m not “loyal” to my nation. To them, if one doesn’t feel overwhelming love for one’s home country and people, there must be something wrong.

People make assumptions, but well most of the time those aren’t particularly offensive. It can be a bit awkward for all parties involved when I don't think or behave the way they expect. The most recent assumption is that I must eat dog’s meat just because... Well honestly I still don’t know how to feel about it lol.

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FireMoon
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posted October 11, 2014 04:48 AM           Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I feel ashamed of my race and nationality. And unworthy of the privileges I was born with.... Tbh.

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Faith
Knowflake

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posted October 11, 2014 08:55 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Interesting answers-- thank you!

Let's see, where do I begin? Since I was a teenager, I haven't felt "at home" in America. Before I left to study in England in 1997, my self-identity was all wrapped up in being a naturalist, and what I wanted most was to live an off-grid, self-sustaining life. I had serious, gnawing angst about the environment I was in...I was embarrassed about American culture and couldn't wait to get away to Europe, thinking everything would be better there.

Except it wasn't, not for me.

I lived with 15 people from several different countries (England, Greece, France, Ghana) in a large flat, and that's when I had this awful realization that it wasn't America I hated...it was modern civilization in its entirety. I just couldn't get away. And if anything, my new acquaintances' polite enthusiasm for America just irritated me worse than ever. I was like, "But can't you see how bad it is? Am I really so alone in this?"

Though, one thing about that experience was funny: I always thought of myself as somewhat mellow and reserved (I'm a Capricorn after all) but compared to the Europeans I seemed downright boisterous. (With the exception of the Greeks who were louder than me.) Really I don't think Americans even realize how overbearing and loud we are until we spend time with people from other countries. Sometimes me just saying "HI!" in a chipper tone of voice would make my roommates wince. And I was the quietest of the three Americans in the flat.

Anyway, Europe really dashed my hopes of escaping what I thought was just an American issue...it turned out to be what I supposed was more like a global issue...a critical lack of coherence and meaning. A world-wide obliviousness to the landfills and the dangers of consumer culture.

Over time I've inured myself to living in America like a regular person but made some drastic changes that make me feel like I'm a stranger. My values don't line up with the values of most of the people I meet, and sometimes I am outright astonished by the unwaivering support that my own friends give to the military or the Republican Party or psychiatry and its tenents, or the school system...all these establishments that I regard as crazy and don't want to touch with a ten-foot pole.

Simply put, I've always enjoyed camping more than anything and honestly feel like a natural life out in the open...like living aboard a yacht, as a nomad all year-round...is what would make me happiest. Like a nobody from nowhere.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 09:22 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
As for prejudice:

One of my best friends is Bavarian: born, raised, and still living in Germany. She and I have talked at length about how we are perceived for our respective nationalities...

I was amazed to learn that Germans are still hated in some places, and she and her husband actually pretend to be Canadian sometimes, as they travel around the world. My friend speaks perfect English, more with an American accent, but she banks on the fact that most people can't tell the difference.

And she's encouraged me to follow suit with another one of her American friends, who tells people that she is Canadian whenever she travels, to avoid any hassles and backlash against Americans. I hear this is very common now-- almost standard practice that Americans will lie about their nationality (or simply move to Canada, and then they don't have to lie.)

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Vajra
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posted October 11, 2014 09:32 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for Vajra     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
.

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BellaFenice
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posted October 11, 2014 02:20 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BellaFenice     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by FireMoon:
I feel ashamed of my race and nationality. And unworthy of the privileges I was born with.... Tbh.

You know what? I agree to a good extent. I am often ashamed of my race and nationality based on our behaviors and what we promote. I especially agree with the second part. White mediocrity seems to be rewarded constantly, yet if you are an exceptionally talented person who is a racial minority, it is very difficult to receive what you truly deserve.

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Lei_Kuei
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posted October 11, 2014 03:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Lei_Kuei     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Its interesting reading the replies and how many people are often ashamed of their nationality, even if they themselves are true natives. Ok, sometimes its maybe understandable but even still, one most look to the more wholesome values of said culture! I don't think there is anything wrong with having a sense of national pride, ofc it depends on what exactly it is about your home nation that one takes pride in. Being Irish... eh, I dont like the drinking culture stigmata that is often popularized in movies but to be fair on that front... Ireland as a whole does have a deep affinity with “having the crack” (not the cocaine kind), and drinking if a core part of such a cultural pastime.

Me personally, I have no interest in it whatsoever I almost never drink except maybe wine at dinner parties Ireland as a country is really odd... Everything moves at a snails pace, from transport to bureaucracy, getting things done is often fraking impossible (guess its all those Monday morning hangovers right?), however its also hilarious at how everyone is so laid back about almost everything!

I don't know if that's just the fluoride in the water or just something that has manifested in our culture since the nationals ran the English out of Dublin back in the days of Pearse and Collins, which is perhaps the only time in Ireland's history where the country (At least here in the South) had a unified sense of purpose. WAR!... [Shakes Head]

Despite everything, I love this country as a place to live, Its very much a unique little Island and as a child growing up here Id say boarded on the down right magical! I had the luxury of spending my youth amongst the ancient ruins of Norman castles, even older monasteries and truly lost in time hill forts, and ancient Celtic burial grounds. So as a kid living in what's know as “The Boyne Valley” one finds yourself surrounded by the best aspects of Ireland!

Had I grown up in Inner City Dublin, would I even care about such things? Id doubtless not even have visited them except maybe on school trips and perhaps then my interest would have been no more than a passing.. “Oh cool” point of view.

As for the Irish accent... ahh mine is surely lacking in thickness. If I told people I was American they wouldn't even blink, however I adore some of the thicker Irish accents more for their humor than anything else, I don't find any of them “sexy”, except maybe the really posh Dublin Southsiders but the personalities of such people is often alittle lacks for my tastes

Nobody... Nobody except maybe the Scott's can swear quite like the Irish, Id almost die laughing at the Inner City Dublin kids exchanging insults on a Bus ride home from college!

When I have traveled abroad I've always been well received when my nationality became known, even in the Uk which I was most concerned about. I lived with many different people from all over the world and while In Ireland they always fraking complain about how like I said early... Nothing gets done! Its the land of perpetual tea breaks and bad weather... But I love it

As I get older and maybe even should I start a family I intend on moving further west to where things REALLY slow down even more... Ahh Ireland, it truly is the fabled “Tir na nog”!

------------------
You can't handle my level of Tinfoil! ~ {;,;}

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 04:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Ireland.

My whole paternal lineage is Irish. I'm more proud of that than I am of being American...it's a cooler country. And the grass really is greener there, from what I saw.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 04:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
@Vajra:

Interesting life you've had Thanks for telling us about it.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 04:21 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by 12muddy:
Some people reacted negatively when they found out that I’m not “loyal” to my nation. To them, if one doesn’t feel overwhelming love for one’s home country and people, there must be something wrong.

My redneck friends look at me like I have two heads when I make any kind of remark against our country. I remember once we were talking to our kids about the 4th of July, and my friend kept instructing them that this is the "land of the free" and I kept trying not to roll my eyes while offering some contrary opinions...usually I am polite and act like more of a conformist, but I just couldn't help it.

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aquaguy91
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posted October 11, 2014 05:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
I am proud of where I was born and raised (the south) and wouldn't want to live anywhere else. When I have traveled outside the region I am always amused by the misconceptions people have about the south. Alot of people who have never been here have the idea that southern people are overwhelmingly racist and phomophobic. This just isn't the case... Yea racism and homophobia exist here but I don't think those things are any more prevalent here than they are in any other part of the country. As a matter of fact I was shocked to see just how racist people up north can be. I have never heard the N word around here as much as I heard it used by white people in Chicago. And another funny thing is how many Rich black folks you see in southern cities like Memphis and Atlanta. But according to most people we (southerners) are the racist ones and blacks and other minorities who live here have it so rough.

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Faith
Knowflake

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posted October 11, 2014 06:39 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Alot of people who have never been here have the idea that southern people are overwhelmingly racist and phomophobic.

At first I thought that said phonophobic. I wondered if it meant "fear of sounds." And I was like....no, I never thought Southerners were afraid of sounds!

--

Whatever AG, let the haters hate, you are from the state that gave the world Elvis Presley. All we can do from now on is say thank you.

I'm from New Jersey, the most ridiculed state after Arkansas. Or maybe even worse than Arkansas. Funny how people seem to think better of me when I tell them I lived within walking distance of Philadelphia...as if Philly is the Promised Land. (???) It's really not, but I won't hate on it, I had some good times there.

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Faith
Knowflake

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posted October 11, 2014 06:56 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote

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aquaguy91
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posted October 11, 2014 07:02 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
Snooki want smoosh smoosh.

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BellaFenice
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posted October 11, 2014 07:43 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for BellaFenice     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
I'm from New Jersey, the most ridiculed state after Arkansas.

My family is from New Jersey!!!! See, I knew I liked you for a reason (and more too).


Ok, done derailing the thread.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 08:07 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Snooki want smoosh smoosh.

I swear this is true, as I live and breathe.

I grew up listening to my mom talk about her cousin Snooki who lived down the shore.

Now....

Just imagine being me when that show came out??

Like....this cannot happen. My life...cannot go in this direction.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 08:09 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Snooki want smoosh smoosh.

Oh and is that from the South Park show?? Drats, I never saw it. Yet.

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Faith
Knowflake

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From: Bella's Hair Salon
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posted October 11, 2014 08:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by BellaFenice:
My family is from New Jersey!!!! See, I knew I liked you for a reason (and more too).

We're probably cousins.

No seriously.

ETA: I actually was kidding but for all I know, it's possible...we look sorta similar and have the same ethnic & religious background.

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PixieJane
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posted October 11, 2014 08:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for PixieJane     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
My redneck friends look at me like I have two heads when I make any kind of remark against our country. I remember once we were talking to our kids about the 4th of July, and my friend kept instructing them that this is the "land of the free" and I kept trying not to roll my eyes while offering some contrary opinions...usually I am polite and act like more of a conformist, but I just couldn't help it.

I know some who believe the South should rise again (and refer to the Civil War as "War of Northern Aggression") but are also exceedingly patriotic in some ways to the nation they want to secede from. I can have fun getting their brains to switch tracks on that...but I wouldn't recommend it to any who don't know the people really well as they can take it very serious (to the point that it might become dangerous). Heck, it could be only my Scorpio Jupiter allowed me to get away with that, along with learning to pick up subtle cues on when I needed to back off and knowing the people I did that to pretty well.

ETA: Ah, see you're from NJ.

Thought I'd share one of the jokes I heard growing up in Texas. Why did the North get the Yankees (that would include you, Faith ) and California get the gays?

California got to choose first.

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aquaguy91
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posted October 11, 2014 09:15 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for aquaguy91     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Faith:
Oh and is that from the South Park show?? Drats, I never saw it. Yet.

Yes. Snooki raped Cartman, it was great. Lol

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 20055
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted October 11, 2014 09:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
I know some who believe the South should rise again (and refer to the Civil War as "War of Northern Aggression") but are also exceedingly patriotic in some ways to the nation they want to secede from. I can have fun getting their brains to switch tracks on that...but I wouldn't recommend it to any who don't know the people really well as they can take it very serious (to the point that it might become dangerous).

That's hilarious

Good thing I'm nowhere near aquaguy physically as I post this:
Bill Cosby on Prejudice @ 4:25

*tiptoes away*

quote:
Originally posted by PixieJane:
Thought I'd share one of the jokes I heard growing up in Texas. Why did the North get the Yankees (that would include you, Faith ) and California get the gays?

California got to choose first.


Awww...LOL, I don't think of myself as a yankee no matter what anyone says. But I love California...'would move there in a split second if I had the chance.

I've been outside of NJ for more than half my life now and it seriously is culture shock going back to my home town. It's so friggin busy-- crazy drivers-- nosey people wanting to talk to me at Dunkin Donuts. Like, these are "my people" and I love 'em but I am soooo glad I left.

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Faith
Knowflake

Posts: 20055
From: Bella's Hair Salon
Registered: Jul 2011

posted October 11, 2014 09:40 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Faith     Edit/Delete Message   Reply w/Quote
quote:
Originally posted by aquaguy91:
Yes. Snooki raped Cartman, it was great. Lol

South Park is crazy.

ETA: Hope you aren't offended by the Bill Cosby rant...I was just kidding with it.

Honestly one of the most sublime pieces of music, IMO, is Dixieland. This version of course.

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