posted September 01, 2015 02:52 PM            

I suffered severe verbal, and sometime physical assault in grade school from most of my year mates, and even younger and older kids.
Either because they couldn't be bothered or didn't see anything, the teachers never did anything despite the numerous pleas my parents made.
I was even accused of stealing the counselor's time from children with "real problems", when she was the one who offered.

If the situation doesn't revolve itself with the parents or teacher involved for whatever reasons, GET THE KID OUT OF THAT SCHOOL.
don't wait, don't hope. If it doesn't work, you take the kid away.
I was bullied for five years, and it only stopped when I changed school.
I will always suffer from the after-effects and it affects my self-esteem even to this day, 11 years later.

One last piece of warning.
Some may tell the kid to ignore them.
It doesn't work. WHen they are out to get you and you are their punching bags, ignoring will do nothing.
If he is outnumbered, physical retalation can also get dangerous for the kid.
Warn the parents and suggest them that changing school may be necessary.

However keep in mind that some families don't take well to what they see as "stranger meddling into their affair."

posted September 01, 2015 02:58 PM            

Frankly, I don't care if people get offended or his family doesn't take well to me meddling in his business. If someone is being hurt, bullied, picked on, I'm saying something.

posted September 01, 2015 03:15 PM            

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posted September 01, 2015 03:25 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by CosmiqPhuz:
Thanks for your advice, RoseLily. Sorry to hear about your past.

Frankly, I don't care if people get offended or his family doesn't take well to me meddling in his business. If someone is being hurt, bullied, picked on, I'm saying something.

My students see me as their friend, they tell me a lot of things. A lot of them have rough lives. He must have felt the need to tell me, otherwise he could have just said "no", right?

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Then it is good, you have influence over this kid.
And I was simply telling you the possibilities of the family telling you off, also warning you that there are limits to what YOU can do.
But yes, if you can make him talk or make him cry then it's good.
When I say cry, it's because kids tries to build a shell and harden themselves, they will try to not cry and refuse to admit how badly it affect them. If he can trust you enough to show his vulnerability and cry his heart out, it is good.
Crying is the first way to heal and get over the situation.
Maybe the bully issue cannot be resolved immediately, but if he has someone he can share his concerns, anger and hurt, it will help TREMENDOUSLY. By showing him your support, he will see you as an ally...

Also,
I don't know if you do tandem lessons? Maybe having a younger kid or a girl that doesn't share his usual social circle being with him during some of your lessons could also help him in at least, gaining a friend of his age that isn't influenced by the bullies.

Bullied people are, also, excessively vulnerable and have a very low self-esteem, having a younger kid or a girl to rely on him and see him as "the big brother" (if he is indeed a boy, I assumed, but still...) would also be of help.
Maybe someone slightly behind in terms of lessons that he could help or to whom he could show off a bit.

posted September 01, 2015 04:11 PM            

So going the -generally advised- route of letting the parents and school know worked for us. Something was done about it - right away.

Bullying thrives when it's allowed to go on in the dark. The best thing is to shine a spotlight on the behaviour.
A lot of bullies are scared, insecure people who need help themselves. In my experience, they were very afraid of authority (and the threat of being expelled), once everything was out in the open.

The first thing to do would be to let his parents know what's been happening!

quote:

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Ami Anne -
Help him. help him. Help him. You could save his life. Be his hero. I respect you so much for caring and wanting to take action

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posted September 01, 2015 04:28 PM            

And, in the rare (but often publicised) scenario that the school does nothing - the parents should always choose to take the kid out of that particular school. That goes without saying. And I hope that is exactly what will happen.

I think the potential challenges of -the parents being defensive/disagreeable and/or the school staff not doing their jobs - should be met when/if they -actually- occur.
But why try to preempt potential issues that have yet to happen?

posted September 01, 2015 04:45 PM            

On a different subject, how many students do you have?

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posted September 01, 2015 07:33 PM            

Here in the US, bullying is seen as something of a right of passage. Though many have double standards (that is they'll say one thing and practice another and expect you to keep up) I've literally heard people say that a kid NEEDS some bullying to toughen them up and prepare them for the real world (even worse, parents will beat and bully their kids themselves, I recall an extreme case of a 2-year-old beaten to death by his father who said he was just trying to "toughen his boy up" and a friend of mine got into arguments with her husband because he disagreed with her giving their 2-year-old boy hugs with him saying the boy needs to toughen up). Many will also say that bullying didn't hurt them, they learned to deal with it (in between their popping psyche meds today and having a meltdown because they didn't get enough likes on their FB page today and constantly worried that the neighbors are looking down on them). And some are just weird (one guy I know shared how both his parents told him to fight back against bullies or it was his own fault so he did and the school called his parents for fighting and they whipped him for it even though he said those were the bullies they told him to fight, go figure.)

Even when parents would be inclined to do something they may be mortified and feel judged that you brought this to their attention and/or offended their son shared this with you instead of them and thus not let him get anymore lessons from you (and possibly from anyone else) which would no doubt suck really bad for him, especially if they failed to competently handle the bullying he was enduring. Too many kids do learn that reporting any kind of abuse or bullying just makes it worse and to NEVER believe the "if you need help, just ask" as it's a lie at best and a trap at worst.

I find parental reactions hard to predict on this, but schools are much more predictable: they'll say they have a zero tolerance policy but demonstrate a zero awareness instead (which is so much easier for them and prevents having to get caught in between squabbling parents). Using phones to catch it on cam used to be effective but after enough lawsuits against the schools that refused to do anything about it schools generally started to exercise draconian measures to ban phones (as opposed to actually enforce their stated policies on bullying), even the ones who already had cams up around the school (but they control what footage gets out). Some kids, especially jocks, are even given a free pass at bullying and they know it, though I personally don't remember that going on in elementary school. That's probably what you'll find yourself up against. (Note: an adult caught recording kids on the playground with their phone cam is not likely to be treated well, nor are claims of "I was trying to catch bullying" likely to be believed.)

Also in America you can't "change schools" without shelling out a lot of money (or moving). You pay taxes on the local schools regardless (and it's illegal to send your kids to another public school) while private schools are often more than many parents can afford (at least want to spend, especially when they "need" things like huge wheels on a monster truck--seriously, I know of a father that spent the cash meant for his little girl's medical bills on that). Homeschooling is more affordable (but you got to be careful where you buy your homeschooling supplies from as at least a few try to sneak in radical religious or political propaganda into them and they don't give refunds) but it's also stigmatized and is something that parents are scared to do though many kids would actually thrive on it and also become better socialized and more mature because of it.

posted September 01, 2015 08:38 PM            

1. The (50% inaccurate) idea that "nothing ever gets done" by parents and schools - discourages people to speak up. This is a problem!

2. Times change. Schools today are not exactly the way they were when some of us were 8 years old.

posted September 01, 2015 09:33 PM            

I was also trying to share what American culture and schools are like which are different than in places like Australia.

Also, I'm well aware schools are different from when I was a kid (nor did we have phones with cams on them in my day so it should be obvious I'm not just basing what I said strictly on my own personal experiences growing up). Today they're worse save in a few select areas. Though that said the kids, generally speaking, are doing better, but they do tend to find the pressures really intense (and I think it's why many of them were able to relate to the Hunger Games, it can serve as a good metaphor for being an American kid today). These days you can even flunk out of kindergarten for not being able to read which blew my mind to learn (American schools compared to schools around the world tend to score highest at low grades but get progressively worse until they fall far behind by graduation).

posted September 01, 2015 11:10 PM            

Trust me, I'm not doing it for "warm fuzzies" or whatever you think my intentions are. You see someone smaller and weaker getting hurt, you help/defend them in any way you can, that simple.

I agree that the "ignore it" method is not gonna work. He'll just be an easier punching bag putting up no resistance.

Honestly, I think learning some self defense could go a long way. I mean, you can't run from everything, right? If you knock a bully down, he leaves you alone.

I'm concerned about his emotional and psychological well being. I mean, suicide on one end, and school shootings on the other extreme.

And the boy plays a mean guitar!

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Cosmic

On a different subject, how many students do you have?

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I have on average, 12 students a week, give or take depending on how they feel. Each gets individual lessons because they all learn/play differently.

posted September 01, 2015 11:35 PM            

That is so cool

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posted September 01, 2015 11:44 PM            

The Safe Zone.

It includes dealing with bullies among other dangers that could affect them. I wish I'd had access to this book when I was little, I believe it would've made a big difference about some things.

posted September 02, 2015 12:44 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Odette:
Cosmiq, if you want to talk to me about this at all, or need my advice in any way - please email me. I won't click on this thread again.

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Will do, Odette

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Oh Cosmic

That is so cool

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Haha, thanks Ami

quote:

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Originally posted by PixieJane:
Awesome book here, too bad it's not more well-known:

The Safe Zone.

It includes dealing with bullies among other dangers that could affect them. I wish I'd had access to this book when I was little, I believe it would've made a big difference about some things.

I expect most parents would be fine with their kids having this as well.

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posted September 02, 2015 08:57 PM            

Is he good on the guitar?

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posted September 02, 2015 09:33 PM            

quote:

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Originally posted by RoseLily:
Keep us informed on how it will progress okay?

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Will do, RoseLily

quote:

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Originally posted by Ami Anne:
Cosmic

Is he good on the guitar?

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Well, for his age (8), he's pretty far along. I didn't start playing until I was 10. He doesn't like playing chords, just single notes. And his timing is off. But he reads music notation very well (better than me). Very intelligent kid. If he can train his ear better and get his timing down, he'd be very good. He's a Leo.

posted September 03, 2015 05:55 AM            

My mom didn't care I was bullyied.
My dad put me in martial arts classes...and I just started kicking everybody's a**** Then the bullying stopped, but no one wanted to be friends because they were afraid of me

And it wasn't good for my sensitive nature to get in physical fights.

posted September 03, 2015 08:08 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Soltze:
It's better to help the kids and intervene.

My mom didn't care I was bullyied.
My dad put me in martial arts classes...and I just started kicking everybody's a**** Then the bullying stopped, but no one wanted to be friends because they were afraid of me

And it wasn't good for my sensitive nature to get in physical fights.

Congrats for caring. The kids really need to have someone who acts as safe haven

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posted September 03, 2015 09:22 AM            

quote:

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Originally posted by Soltze:
My dad put me in martial arts classes...and I just started kicking everybody's a**** Then the bullying stopped, but no one wanted to be friends because they were afraid of me

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That didn't happen to me because people who were friends with me knew that I'd never start a physical fight (or get all blustering building up to one), but I would finish it (the exception being if they started something with someone I was close to in which case I might intervene, but even in that case someone else was crossing that line first). Therefore bullies usually avoided me and the worst I normally experienced was being shunned (and some passive aggressive stuff like speaking to each other in a way that I was meant to overhear, but not brave enough to say it to me directly), but I still had friends, a few who were pretty frightened of bullies and the like and probably contributed to their wanting to be around me.

It helped that I'm a girl so violent bullying was rare for me (especially after I kicked that boy in the face who wouldn't stop goosing me and he fell down the stairs to the laughter of all the other kids, that made an impression, generally good among the kids and bad to the faculty and I was never goosed again ). That said the exceptions tend to be very notable, but what I always did (save in one place) was also so notable that most girls wouldn't risk it (and none, beyond that one place, ever did more than once), and that included them not menacing girls I was close to (or vandalizing their lockers or other acts of that nature) which was a plus for my friends (I once even stood up for a boy being menaced by other boys which was technically a violation of a boy code but the end result was that other boys I was friends with quickly came to my, and thus his by extension, defense and he never complained about my doing that).

It makes me curious why you didn't have friends. Did you have friends before you fought back? If so, why weren't they glad to have you around? Were they guys who didn't want a girl around who could and would fight better? Were they girls who thought all good girls should be passive even when being beaten? Did they think that if you weren't a nail to be hammered that you'd be a hammer looking for a nail (them) to hit?

I have the kids take krav maga (among other things) and the boy at least made friends with two other boys who also go to his school (and also others). (The girl dated one boy as well, though only for a short time and he went to a different school.)

Oh, and I'm also curious...did any of these physical fights happen in school or on school grounds? If so, how did the faculty react? Finally, what nation and decade are we talking about here? (I'm mainly wondering about the cultural norms this happened in.)

posted September 03, 2015 09:29 AM            

Dejanira is the victim.

Pluto powers up the victim side of me.

I was never really bullied, other than a really bad kid, here or there, who bullied everyone.

I thought it was stupid to let some other dumb kid, as dumb as I was, bother me.

I, still, don't get bullied. I won't allow it!

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