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Topic: Peyote Use by Native Americans Doesn't Damage Brain
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proxieme Knowflake Posts: 5315 From: Southern 'Bama Registered: Aug 2002
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posted November 06, 2005 10:56 PM
- Its use in religious practices deemed safe by Harvard-affiliated researchersBy Amanda Gardner HealthDay Reporter FRIDAY, Nov. 4 (HealthDay News) -- In an example of modern science catching up to ancient wisdom, researchers have found that Native Americans who use peyote as a regular part of their religious practices show no evidence of brain damage or psychological problems. Quite the contrary, these individuals scored higher on several indicators of mental health than members of the same tribe who did not use peyote and who were not members of the Native American Church. Navajo experts expressed delight at the findings. "It's heartwarming," said Victor J. Clyde, a judge with the Arizona state courts and vice president of the Native American Church of North America. "Our elders told us that this beauty is good for us, and will never do us harm. The government never really took their word, and even prohibited peyote for a while." The authors of the study, appearing in the Nov. 4 issue of Biological Psychiatry and partially funded by the National Institute on Drug Abuse, cautioned, however, that this does not mean that peyote is necessarily good for everybody in all situations. "We must be careful not to extrapolate this finding to other situations," said Dr. Harrison G. Pope Jr., senior author of the study and director of the Biological Psychiatry Laboratory at the McLean Hospital in Boston. "These are people who are taking hallucinogenic substances under religious sacrament, under special types of conditions that cannot be extrapolated to those taking illicit hallucinogenic substances on the street." McLean is affiliated with Harvard University. Indeed, hallucinogens sold on the street typically are not mescaline, but LSD or other substances. Peyote is the name of a cactus that contains mescaline, a hallucinogen. The substance is used, legally, as part of Native American Church (NAC) ceremonies. Peyote is also supposed to be effective as a treatment for alcoholism when used "in the NAC context," the study said. Despite its widespread use within this population, the scientific literature on peyote is sparse. "There are no studies that have generated any data on the outcome of the human consumption of peyote for religious purposes or for illegal purposes," said Dr. John Halpern, lead author of the study and an investigator with McLean's Biological Psychiatry Laboratory. About one-third of 255,000 enrolled members of the Navajo tribe are also NAC members, providing a unique opportunity to study the compound and its effects. "If they are faithful to the church, they don't ingest any illicit substances ever," Halpern said. "They may have taken peyote in a religious context hundreds or thousands of times, and have never abused alcohol or cocaine. It's a distinctly pure population." The challenge was enlisting the support and cooperation of the Navajo tribe. This was, Pope said, "profoundly difficult." Halpern traveled dozens of times to Navajo country in New Mexico and Arizona over a period of years trying to establish a rapport. "It was a tremendous amount of groundwork," he acknowledged. "Native Americans are sure sick of reservation drive-bys, someone who comes on to the reservation, never explains how the research could be of use, then, when the results are obtained, never coming back. I learned to hate the word 'research.' " "Many of the people said, 'We already know we're fine. Tell us something we don't know,'" Halpern said. "They looked at peyote as something given to them by God for the benefit of all natives as medicine with a capital M." Clyde confirmed this. "When Halpern came around, members were reluctant because of past experience," he said. "They said, 'Are you going to put us under a microscope?' " Pope recalled a turning point about two years into this effort. He and Halpern were sitting in a rented conference room at the Best Western in Farmington, N.M., just off the reservation, trying to explain one of a battery of neuropsychological tests to about 20 "skeptical and slightly hostile-looking Indians." Pope tried out some recently acquired Navajo words, and soon they were all laughing. "I hope you're not going to be the one administering the test," they said. In the end, Halpern, Pope and their team were able to recruit 61 NAC members who had ingested peyote at least 100 times, as well as two control groups: 36 individuals with past alcohol problems, and 79 individuals reporting virtually no peyote or other substance use. The people who had used peyote scored better on several measures of the Rand Mental Health Inventory (RMHI), which is used to diagnose psychological problems and ascertain overall mental health, than the other two groups. The group of former alcoholics showed significant deficits on every scale of the RMHI, and on two neuropsychological measures. "We do not pretend that peyote is the reason for the higher mental health score, but that it's a much tighter community, and group support and all of the other positive values account for it," Pope said. According to Halpern, NAC leadership is "quite ecstatic" about the findings, although they come as no surprise. Still, Harvard-backed research could prove useful if government committees, politicians and the public start questioning the safety of peyote. It could even help some careers. About 10,000 NAC members are enrolled in the U.S. military and, currently, are prohibited from having nuclear-warhead responsibilities, even if they say they will not take peyote while serving. Somebody who takes LSD and lies about it, on the other hand, can have such responsibilities, Halpern said. "Indians who are exclusively honest are excluded because of their honesty, so this may have important bearings even outside of the nuclear issue for those Native Americans who are serving," Halpern added. "Native Americans serve in the military more than any other race percentage-wise." The findings could also help doctors who don't know anything about the subject. And the research could aid in court cases, for instance, involving a white mother and an Indian father who want to take a child to a peyote meeting just to be blessed. As for the Navajos themselves, Halpern and Pope made sure they heard about the findings before the rest of the world. "I really took it quite seriously about making sure that no reservation drive-by was done by us," Halpern said. "I wanted to show that I had completed what I promised I would do, and that they would be the first to get to hear about it, which has happened." "It does reassure," added Clyde. "The statement made by the elders, the government was not going to listen to them, but this carries weight." More information Visit this link for more on the Native American Church: http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/nachurch.htm IP: Logged |
TINK Knowflake Posts: 2129 From: New England Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 06, 2005 11:24 PM
This makes me sad. I have immeasurable depths of respect for the Native American race, but hallucinogens used as an religious/spiritual aid is a sign of a race in decline.The Essenes used this sort of thing towards the end too. It's a sign of desperation, I think. Understandable, of course, considering the Age we're in. We are so removed from the Spirit even the Old Ones need drugs to push through. IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 9386 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 02:34 AM
Right on, Tink. I was recently arguing this exact same point with a taurus. He's half Native American too.... I just dont think we need drugs to 'get there' - anywhere, to experience a transcendal or spiritual state. Some people arent ready to jump through such levels so quickly. I believe it can do alot of damage for those who arent ready. We have what we need within to reach any heights we wish to. Sure, maybe it's not the easiest, quickest way there. But possible with dedication and work. "hallucinogens used as an religious/spiritual aid is a sign of a race in decline." I agree. His arguement was strong though. And in certain aspects, I could see where he was coming from. But, I think ultimeately, it stems from laziness (in his case). Just take something and it'll take you there. Easy way out. In the end though, I say, why bother? When substances really are not needed and potentially dangerous. We have it all within.IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 09:41 AM
quote: hallucinogens used as an religious/spiritual aid is a sign of a race in decline.
I respectfully disagree. Like the old song says, "Walk a mile in my shoes..." Most especially in the modern world, we reach for drugs for everything,from our caffeine to our Aleve to our soda pop to our cigarettes to our junk food which is often laden with chemicals. What's so wrong with a shortcut? Is it lazy, or efficient? We're given many gifts on this earth, and when one of those gifts is a plant that accelerates a process, where is the harm? How is that a cheat? I have no problem with the use of natural substances to help us change our perspective.
------------------ The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine. -Indigo Girls IP: Logged |
proxieme Knowflake Posts: 5315 From: Southern 'Bama Registered: Aug 2002
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posted November 07, 2005 10:01 AM
quote: but hallucinogens used as an religious/spiritual aid is a sign of a race in decline
So, how long have they been in decline, then? A couple thousand years? IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 10:59 AM
Touche' prox. IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 9386 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 01:44 PM
I can see where youre coming from trill. It's just a personal thing. I dont want to go that route. After seeing the negative effects that different kinds of hallucinogens have had on some people, it doesnt feel right to me (of course, everyone is different, so...). It may help to change some people's perspective, but I think with others it opens up their energy fields to many negative things, pushes them through 'doorways' they might not be ready for. Not to mention the potential brain damage. It may be the right choice for some of course. To each their own. *says this while smoking cigarette, sipping coffee* haha. IP: Logged |
26taurus Moderator Posts: 9386 From: the stars Registered: Jun 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 01:45 PM
....maybe a couple million or so.....IP: Logged |
lotusheartone Knowflake Posts: 2542 From: piopolis, quebec canada Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 07, 2005 01:51 PM
Ah, I just finished my last cup of coffee, while smoking a cigaretteand I have to agree, that anything that alters your brain, and kills brain cells, cannot be good for you although for some it will get them from point A to point B but then, they have to let go, of the help, they used to get there a viscious cycle, if you ask me been there, done that and it's a fact the natural high of the YOu of YOu is all you need Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
Yin Knowflake Posts: 1095 From: Registered: May 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 02:52 PM
Hey, nobody reads Carlos Castaneda these days. Read some, it'll make you less judgmental( if of course you consider being less judgmental a positive trait )
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beebuddy Knowflake Posts: 649 From: illinois Registered: Apr 2005
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posted November 07, 2005 03:16 PM
IMO the government doesn't have the right to tell people what they can put into their bodies. IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 03:23 PM
Yin, Hi sweetie. Good points, re: Carlos. 26T, I am so sorry I haven't written in a while, but I will. I think of you often. Now, to continue on the subject at hand, I'm not sure anyone can come to a doorway s/he is not ready for. If we believe we choose what happens in this life on a higher or lower level, then we choose the path, we choose the door, and we choose the repercussions as necessities for our growth, whether they are perceived as positive or negative in this time/space. lotusheartone, it is disingenuous to argue against anything that alters one's brain while smoking and sipping on coffee. As for facts, well, I don't think you're in any position to define facts; to do so in your context ("It's a fact, the natural high is all you need") is presumptuous; you have no idea what anyone needs except yourself. That smacks of communism does it not? One of the most interesting college courses I took presented us with a formula to disprove anything known as a 'fact.' But if you do like facts, then why don't you look up the fact that cigarettes literally contain hundreds of carcinogens that alter more than only your brain, and render most people severely addicted. ------------------ The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine. -Indigo Girls IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 03:25 PM
beebuddy, I couldn't agree more. ------------------ The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine. -Indigo Girls IP: Logged |
lotusheartone Knowflake Posts: 2542 From: piopolis, quebec canada Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 07, 2005 03:39 PM
Yes a very good pointI need to guit coffee and cigarettes too! I know why do you get upset with me? Love and Light to YOU IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 04:07 PM
Do I get upset with you?Or do I simply disagree with some of the things you say?
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lotusheartone Knowflake Posts: 2542 From: piopolis, quebec canada Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 07, 2005 04:35 PM
well, you said I was agruing, I was just stating, what I thoughtso, I wondered, why it seemed like you were upset to each his own, I say Ggod Day! IP: Logged |
Yin Knowflake Posts: 1095 From: Registered: May 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 07:21 PM
Hi Trill
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TINK Knowflake Posts: 2129 From: New England Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 07:59 PM
Trill ~ If shortcuts are valid, why the long route? What's the difference? Why earn my money? Why not just steal it? Why take the time to nuture a relationship? Why not just pay for a quick f*ck? Why sacrifice and study for the sake of insight? Why not just pop a few pills? Walk a mile in his shoes is appropriate advice. Walk a mile in the shoes of the adept who earned his wisdom, or the shoes of some guy who snorted this or smoked that and believes he has gained sight into the unseen world. Would you trust his sight? More importantly, would you trust his ability to clearly understand what he saw? Prox - a couple thousand years? Possibly. That sounds about right, I suppose. Possibly more. Not specifically for the Native American of course, who probably kept it together longer than most at least in terms of the astral as they're very nature/animal oriented, but humanity in general. Sorry. Bit of a run on there. Beebuddy ~ I couldn't agree more either. I'm largely Libertarian. If the rest of the world sees fit to OD on peyote, they can have at it. Yin ~ Hey, you say tomato, I say tomahto. You say judgement, I say discretion and common sense. But as you've probably guessed, I'm not a huge Castenada fan. IP: Logged |
proxieme Knowflake Posts: 5315 From: Southern 'Bama Registered: Aug 2002
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posted November 07, 2005 08:03 PM
If we're talking humanity in general, it'd be several tens of thousands of years, I guess (if we're gauging racial decline in terms of hallucinigenic usage for ceremony).I agree that substances are a very poor substitution for the natural experiences that they mimic (having known both), but I think that your terms are a little broad. IP: Logged |
TINK Knowflake Posts: 2129 From: New England Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 07, 2005 09:19 PM
Yeah, my terms are always a little broad. I do tend to talk in generalizations.I would say tens of thousands of years is too much. The need would not have been there at that stage. In my humble estimation of course. My point was not to defame the Native American tribes or the Essenes or any other race, only to point out that people with 20/20 vision don't need glasses. I see a similiar sort of thing played out in the Greek tragedies. It seems clear to me they were bemoaning a relatively recent loss of clarity. I think the Hindus call it Kali Yuga - the Age of Iron. The Native tribes certainly weren't the only ones to fall prey to the inevitable. Peyote, I suppose, began as nothing more than a desperate attempt to keep the lines of communication open, so to speak. How can I fault them for that? It is sad to watch no matter the culture. How can I feel anything but sympathy? I hope I didn't imply otherwise. Nevertheless, we can't look backwards. We can only move forward. I see no future in hallucinogenic drugs. I believe we must find new ways ... more time-consuming though they may be. IP: Logged |
BloodRedMoon Knowflake Posts: 823 From: somewhere out there Registered: Apr 2004
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posted November 07, 2005 09:51 PM
People use plants for lots of different things. I don't see it as that different. Carrots are good for the eyes, spinach is good for just about everything, oranges keep you from getting a cold - peyote can help some people get in touch with the astral.*shrugs* I wouldn't dare say I feel sorry for Native Americans or any other race/religion/creed that probably know worlds more than I do when it comes to things like that. What I think is here is point A. There is point B. Doesn't matter to me if you get there through a straight, curved, wavy or zigzag line. Heck.. teleport there if you want. Meet you there IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 08, 2005 08:57 AM
quote: What I think is here is point A. There is point B. Doesn't matter to me if you get there through a straight, curved, wavy or zigzag line
Indeed. Frankly Tink, I'm not sure I trust much of anyone who thinks of him or herself as a sage who has seen the other side, with or without drugs. The only truth that really matters is my own. I trust myself, with or without drugs. Sometimes drugs just help us get out of our own way. quote: If shortcuts are valid, why the long route? What's the difference? Why earn my money? Why not just steal it? Why take the time to nuture a relationship? Why not just pay for a quick f*ck? Why sacrifice and study for the sake of insight? Why not just pop a few pills?
I honestly don't know the difference, if there is one. Lots of people steal. Is there a difference between stealing a few pens from work and stealing a million dollars? Probably not, and I think many of us have committed the former, if not the latter. I can only make choices for myself. I would not pay for a f*ck, but if someone wanted to, I really don't care. Who knows, perhaps a time might come when I ask someone to pay me for a f*ck. I don't trust the sight of those who allegedly wrote the bible, and I don't think they chronicled any use of hallucinogens, though they probably drank a good bit of alcohol. It's just life. ------------------ The less I seek my source for some definitive, the closer I am to fine. -Indigo Girls IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 08, 2005 11:51 AM
I was going to edit the above post, because this seems to be such a non-issue. But I'll let it stand. Wouldn't it be funny if we got to the other side (or another side) and Goddess said "You know, we might have been in touch sooner if you'd just eaten that peyote plant I created for you." In any event, Goddess loves me whether I eat peyote, drink a beer, smoke a cigarette, toke on a joint, beat my wife, starve my dog, love my neighbor...et cetera. IP: Logged |
lotusheartone Knowflake Posts: 2542 From: piopolis, quebec canada Registered: Jul 2005
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posted November 08, 2005 11:57 AM
Yes, that's the beautiful thing, they still love us, But, there is still judgement, and good and bad, why would you say, "starve my dog", that's horrid, you think that's OK???there's a planet for those who don't see they will do this all over again tragedy Love and Light to ALL IP: Logged |
trillian Moderator Posts: 3712 From: The Boundless Registered: Mar 2003
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posted November 08, 2005 01:10 PM
Judge not, lest ye be judged.
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