posted May 24, 2006 07:53 PM         

I don't own any Ina May Gaskin books but I've read both Spiritual Midwifery and also her newer book about childbirth and enjoyed them both. Spiritual Midwifery was definetly dated in some of the slang that was used that was soo 1960's but it had so much useful information that it was worth it. What really helped me, that I learned from her writing, was the idea of kissing through the contractions. I did this with my partner and it definetly made bearing the pain much easier. I was too self conscious to try in front of the midwives so we didn't kiss during the last three hours of the labor (we stayed home for the first part of the labor- approx 5-6 hours of which was quite hard). But I was in the tub for the last three hours so that helped.

As far as the baby wearing, I am a huge supporter of it. We also don't have alot of extra money and so I just went and bought five yards of woven lightweight cotton that was 60 inches wide and then cut it to about 45 inches wide and hemmed the edges. It did take some practice but once I got the hang of it, it was a piece of cake. The front carries were relatively easy to master and I'm only just now, after about 5 months of on and off practicing, getting pretty good at the back carry.
Here's the website that got me started on how to do the wrap method- http://wearyourbaby.com

posted May 24, 2006 09:11 PM         

i like that website...i'm sure i'll spend a lot of time perusing it. thanks for posting those...one of those slings looks like a didymos...a german-made sling that's famous for the quality of the beautiful fabric. those take true skill to learn, but once you master them, i've heard they're the best ever.

i know in a much previous thread i mentioned sending some good diaper patterns to you. i'm so sorry i didnt do that...i have them on my old 'puter, but i can't connect that one to our internet...but i should be able to do so soon.

i'm glad you mentioned the ina may books...i'll be adding those to my library one day. and i'd love to visit the community where she lives...they have a great website, have you seen it?

posted May 25, 2006 02:26 AM         

Ina May still lives on The Farm right? I haven't seen their website but I've heard things about it from the Deadhead circles I used to run in. It's one of the older intentional communities in the country, so they are kinda famous in that regard.

posted May 25, 2006 02:50 AM         

i would love...

having my own unassisted water birth, in a warm ocean amongst dolphins...(there are quite a few documentations of this occuring in russia, in the black sea, i think...don't know about the dolphins though). or at least in my own home.

with a lotus birth...and immediate natural infant hygeine... http://www.natural-wisdom.com/

sustaining us with vegan delights grown in our organic, biodynamic gardens and orchards...

making our own clothing from the material woven from the organic hemp and cotton crops we grow...

livin' off the grid, in a fine, sturdy straw bale house...

in the midst of nature, surrounded by mountains, rivers and forests...

with faeries and elves as our companions and helpers.

ahhhhh....sweet dreams.

posted May 25, 2006 02:53 AM         

In my many years traveling throughout Asia I saw almost no babies with diapers. Yet I commonly saw infants who would seem to eliminate on command. Their moms would hold them over a gutter with their pants down, whistle a quiet hiss, or grunt, and then the baby would go. At one year! Two-year olds would find their own place to squat. The real story behind this magic is that the child communicates their elimination needs to the mom, who learns to understand their unique signals, and then she communicates back whether all is ready or not. The result is a baby toilet-trained long before anyone in developed countries believes is possible, or even healthy. And this diaper-less, yet mess-less, state is common in parts of Africa and Latin America as well.

But I never imagined it would work in the modern world of carpeting, cars, and obsessive sterility. I've had my mind changed by this book and a growing movement meeting online, where pioneering parents have figured out how to translate this very natural approach into contemporary lives. They call it natural infant hygiene to emphasize that this is not about training, discipline, or being strict. Instead, its success depends on a very close bond between baby and parents. Indeed, most parents who adopt this style claim that the incredibly close communication with the baby is worth far more to them than no pampers, and being diaper free is simply a mere bonus.

So does it really work? Yes. But what about....? Those are questions this book does a pretty good job at answering, or at least beginning to answer. Much of the modern version is still being sorted out. For instance for some families, diaper less mean less diapers rather than no diapers. But in all cases it requires a pretty big commitment of time (natural elimination does not work in full time day care), and a different way of thinking (pee is sterile, not dirty).

The natural baby hygiene program reminds me a lot of the early breast-feeding movement, with which it shares many attributes. Both practices were common in developing countries, both demanded an intense bond with the mother, and both required a re-education of the modern public to accept. It's going to be a long struggle to get folks used to carrying chamber pots around, or having their baby pee on your lawn, but I think it will happen in small numbers. Our family is long past the diaper age, but if we were doing it again, this way makes a whole lot of sense.

For those so inclined, this is the best book to date. There's a corresponding active website as well.

-- KK

Diaper Free! The Gentle Wisdom of Natural Infant Hygiene
Ingrid Bauer
2001, 255 pages
$12
Available from Amazon

posted May 25, 2006 03:03 AM         

Underwater Birth and Dolphins

Igor Tscharkofsy, Dr. Igor Smirnov and Elena Tonetti in Russia, Dr. Michel Odent, M.D. in France, Estelle Meyers in New Zealand, Dr. Gowri Motha, M.D. in London, Binnie Dansby in England and others pioneered underwater birth.

Now underwater birth is an accepted as part of the British health services and recommended for those who anticipate problems with their pregnancy. Literally thousands of succesful underwater births have occured throughout the world. The initial enthusiasm for this technique has grown and its benefits for the mother and child are increasingly confirmed.

Parallel to these developments, the practice of dolphin assisted therapy developed through the work of Dr. Hank Truby, Dr. Betsy Smith, Dr. David Nathanson, David Cole, Scott Taylor, Dr. Horace Dobbs, M.D., et alia. The direct experience of many people who have encountered dolphins and been healed by them also confirms this approach.
See: http:///www.planetpuna.com/dp.htm

As the advantages of underwater birth became clear, and the therapeutic value of dolphins was demonstrated, the concept of humans birthing underwater with dolphins developed. Since birthing in water is beneficial, and dolphins are able to heal or improve a wide range of medical conditions, it is reasonable to suppose that their presence at water births could be beneficial.

Some 20 years ago, after developing and confirming the benefits of water birth, Igor Tscharkofsy began to birth human babies in the Black Sea with the dolphins. Some of the reported occurances include a mother and a baby playing with the dolphins within 45 minutes of the birth, another instance of a free dolphin escorting a newborn human baby to the surface for its first breath. According to Igor Smirnoff, their research director, water babies develop six months faster over their first two years and development of waking, talking etc. occur earlier. According to Elena Tonetti, who managed the Black Sea birth project for several years, the children are also ambidexterous.

Dolphins are curious about pregnant women and often come around to check them out. This is a common occurance according to Dean Bernal, companion to the free dolphin Jo Jo who swims with many people in the Turks and Caicos islands. In commercial "swim with dolphin" programs, pregnant ladies are often excluded from the swims because the dolphins often concentrate their attention exclusively on her to the exclusion of the other guests.

In the Black Sea, dolphins would often come close to the people in the water and were present at many births. Dr. Gowri Motha, M.D. took 8 preganant ladies to the dolphin facilities at Eliat so they could birth with the dolphins. She is convinced that this is beneficial for the mother and the babies. More evaluation and repetition of the process will more firmly establish the benefits of underwater birth with the dolphins.

The work of Dr. Stanislav Grof and others have established that the birth experience is the major formative experience for our personality. A good birth results in an imprint of basic trust in the universe while a difficult birth can lead to an imprint of struggle. Whatever the imprint, it tends to be repeated in our later lives.

From a physical point of view, human babies at birth have proportionately the largest head of any land creature with the smallest body. Dr. John Lilly found that angular accelerations can create sheer forces on the brain.

Above a certain critical value that depends on brain and body size, the brain can be damaged by accelerations. A birth into water allows a smooth transition where the head and brain are neutrally bouyant. The mass of the water minimizes the accelerations to the brain and helps insure its intact delivery. See: http://www.planetpuna.com/Brain-Size-Birth

The fact that humans like water, swim, dive, and are attracted to birthing in the water has led to the development of the Aquatic Ape Theory that postulates that humans are partially aquatic creatures and evolved in a watery environment near rivers and coastlines for millions of years. This has resulted in several "marine" characteristics including the structure of the nose, the position and shape of the breasts, subcutaneous fat, and tear glands which are characteristic of some marine animals like seals, dolphins and sea birds. See: www.planetpuna.com/siriusa/AQApe.htm

This puts water birth in a context in where it is part of our aquatic heritage and approaches the conditions of our ideal primal environment. We now know several cultures practiced water births including the ancient Egyptians and the Hawaiians. In fact, Hawaiians performed underwater births with dolphins as late as 1937 and still privately maintain this practice.

At the moment, the birth activities in the Black Sea have ceased. While several projects have sought to establish places where people could birth with dolphins, this has yet to occur.

The Dolphin Attended Water and Natural (DAWN) Birth Center

Hawaii is ideal for underwater births attended by free dolphins. The climate is ideal and there are coastals areas throughout the islands where dolphins come close to the shore.

A Sample of the type of coastline suitable for the habitat is seen below.

There are tide pools, hot ponds, access for free dolphins. This area of Hawaii is the only area where all these occur together. Therefore this is a prime area for establishing water birth with dolphins and the human-dolphin habitats where we can live and learn from each other. This area can also be the first embassy for the Cetacean Commonwealth.
See: CetaceanCommonwealth

posted May 27, 2006 10:53 PM         

congratulations!!

posted May 27, 2006 10:56 PM         

Magical Child
Joseph Chilton Pearce

Summerhill
A.S. Neil

posted May 30, 2006 11:31 PM         

No, the waterbirth will not be at home... that's where daddy drew the line.

I feel fortunate to have found an excellent midwife in my area and a hospital that allows waterbirths. I'm really looking forward to the experience.

Thanks for the reading recommendations. Question for you (or anyone else): Can you recommend a book that has a lot of good info for the support person? We'd both like for him to be as involved as possible, but we're finding it difficult to locate information on labor and delivery that goes beyond the basics you get from the doc's office.

Something a little more natural/spiritual... I'm sure you know what I'm saying.

I'll check the library for some of the titles already mentioned, however, I have a feeling I won't find them there.

Thanks again!

posted May 30, 2006 11:45 PM         

Harpyr, do you feel like sharing your waterbirth experience? Was it your first pregnancy? I'd love to hear anything you'd be willing to share!

And Tink... I'm sorry if I missed the announcement somewhere (I've been away for a little while) but are you expecting? If so, when are you due?

I don't think I mentioned this already, but we had an ultrasound last week and the baby is a girl! So right now we're pretty wrapped up in the name game. Fun!

posted May 31, 2006 11:03 AM         

I didn't really announce it. It sort of spilled out. I'm due in October too. Let's race!

Thank you again, Salome. (and Harpyr) for all the ideas. I've been all over the internet and library researching, researching, researching. I've been looking at those didymos slings. They're beautiful! And expensive. I've also had a look at one called Maya, I think. I can't sew for anything so I'm condemned to purchase.

Speaking of purchasing, it amazes me the sorts of things well-meaning people want to give me. Don't get me wrong, I more than appreciate the thought, but do I really need a Fisher Price mechanical swing? Yesterday my husband's niece, who has a 6 month old, asked him what baby formula we would be using. He told her we would be breast feeding. Cue the surprised, questioning look followed by, "well, what if you can't?", followed by a lengthy discussion of the numerous formulas her poor baby has been through because they all make him sick. And no she never even tried to breast feed. Oy.

And the next person that says, "Why would anyone not want an epidural??!!" gets sucker punched.

Funny you mentioned Hypnobirthing. I almost did too. Surprisingly, there was a long article about it in my local paper a few weeks ago. I'm looking into it along with the Bradley Method. *note to Future - the Bradley Method is very much geared toward the husband's role during the labor and delivery*

My first thought was a water birth too. But Daddy also drew the line at homebirth and there isn't a hospital in my state that offers water birthing. The best I could find was an alternative birthing center with a jacuzzi.

He's good with the natural childbirth, breastfeeding, the slings, organic stuff .... if I could just convince him to go the cloth diaper route.

posted May 31, 2006 08:28 PM         

future- definetly check out Birthing from Within.. it has a section specifically about what your husband can do to support you through the labor. Additionally, there are exercises you can both do to work through some of the anxiety or fears both of you may be holding about the birth. Clearly there are some fears swirling around if he drew the line at a home birth. (very common for first time dads to balk at that idea, by the way)

I actually had a water birth for both of my children. The first, my son Quinn (now nearly 5), was born in one of those round, padded birthing tubs at a hospital, attended by a nurse practitioner midwife. That labor was the longer of the two.. about 12 hours of really hard labor. I got to be in the tub for the last three hours. It wasn't available before that and I tried laboring in the small jaccuzzi tub but it was so uncomfortable that it didn't really help. I was on the verge of asking for the epidural when they said the tub was ready. I got lucky.. there were two other laboring women who wanted to use the one tub but I was farther along than both of them and my regular midwife came on shift just at the nick of time to make that observation and bump me up to the top of the waiting list. I was really frustrated for alittle while right in the middle of my labor because they said there was a chance that I wouldn't be able to use it. Nobody had told me (or maybe I had conveniently forgotten ) but I wasn't prepared for that possibility and it stressed me out for an hour or two. At any rate, the tub helped me relax.

For me , the most exhausting part about labor wasn't necessarily the contractions but rather being able to shift my body from the position it wanted to be in to rest, to the position I needed to be in to best endure the contractions. The tub made that transition much easier and helped me rest better in between. One thing that aggravated me during the first birth was that the midwife wanted to monitor the baby's heartbeat quite often and kept wanting me to get out of the tub. I flat out refused and so she let me hold the underwater monitor thingy to my belly as a compromise. Overall the experience was good, though in retrospect, I would have rather done it at a birthing center than the hospital. My insurance just wouldn't have allowed it though.

My daughter was born last September at the birthing center here with midwives in a large jaccuzzi tub. I was skeptical of that at first because my experience with the jaccuzzi last time wasn't so good. I remember thinking that it was too hard and it hurt my bum. But they reassured me that if I really needed more cushioning, I could lay down towels on the bottom of the tub.. though they doubted I would need them. They were right. The jaccuzzi was big enough for me to stretch my legs out and recline and the hardness of the tub didn't bother me. I rather liked that it had handles for me to grip and it was deeper than the round tub I'd had previously.

This most recent time, I managed to stay home for the majority of the labor, which was nice. I knew, at 8 am on the 18th that I was in labor. It started to get intense at around 7pm. My hubby and I got Quinn situated at his grandparents house and then we went back home until about 11pm when I decided it was time to go to the center. The contractions were hard and about 2 minutes apart at that point. At my request, the midwife checked my dialation and I was at 8cm. I was thrilled to hear that cause I was soooo ready to meet my lil babe. I got in the tub at about 11:30pm and tried my best to remember to keep my voice lower pitched instead of giving in to the urge to scream. I found that that helped, though it was difficult to resist the urge. I really belted out some screams during my first labor but had since read (in Ina May Gaskin's writings) that it's better to keep your mouth loose and keep your noises lower pitched. If your mouth is tight then your bottom is tight. I think there is truth to that.

Anyway, sweet Azalea was born at 1:53am, after about 20 minutes of pushing. During labor I kind of enter into this foggy mental state where time sort of loses meaning.. 5 hours can easily feel like only 1... but the pushing that may only last 20 minutes can feel like hours, in my experience. The transition, when you become fully dialated and get ready to push, is the scariest part. That was the part where, both times, I started saying "I'm scared, I'm scared.. I can't do this.." over and over. The midwives and my partner were both very supportive and reassuring, telling me how strong I was and that it was almost over.

What I really appreciated about the midwives was that they were really respectful of not talking much and when they did, it was in hushed voices.. they didn't meddle much at all. They checked the baby's heartbeat maybe 3 times during the three hours I was laboring there. I really appreciated that it felt like a home, as opposed to the institutional feel of a hospital.

posted May 31, 2006 08:30 PM         

I hear ya about the comments from others.. man, people will try and give you all sorts of stuff. Now, I'm not a strict attached parenting type..Even though I use the wrap to carry the wee one alot, I do find that it's nice to have an alternate place to put her some times..those swings take up alot of space but they can be quite handy sometimes, like when I need to potty or cook over the stove.

The formula comments bug me when it's from a mamma who didn't even try to breastfeed.. aaargh. I read a statistic somewhere that said that atleast 97% of women are physically capable of breastfeeding. Which makes sense, I mean how would we have survived as a species if that weren't the case, considering that formula has been around for less than 100 years?
That being said, I could see how so many women get discouraged or think they can't do it. It is really painful for the first week or so. It's hard to commit to enduring even more pain right after surviving the pain of labor. But if you just grit your teeth and make it through that first painful stage, it gets so easy. When baby is hungry all you have to do is lift your shirt as opposed to washing bottles, mixing formula, heating formula, spending tons of money, etc..I can't imagine why any woman would choose to make so much more work for herself by opting to formula feed without even giving bf a chance.

posted June 01, 2006 08:55 AM         

For now I have to make this quick, but here were the basics:

Tink, when in October are you due? I'm due the 14/15. I can't wait to have a little Libra!

Harpyr, ramble away, please! I'm starting to get more and more nervous about labor/delivery and right now I can't get enough of other peoples' experiences. I had my son without an epidural, but the nurses gave me Demerol, so psychologically I worry about going entirely drug-free this time (more a mental thing than a realistic thing... if the Demerol did anything for me, I couldn't tell you what it was!)

Here's my Demerol experience, if anyone wants the info-- my pain didn't lessen, it kept increasing just as one would expect during a normal labor. What it did do is make it impossible for me to communicate clearly. In my mind I knew what was going on, I knew what I wanted to say, but what would come out of my mouth were things like, "I need some fried chicken." I remember being baffled by the things I was saying-- felt like a prisoner in someone else's body.

It seems to me that Demerol makes it easier for DOCTORS because you can't talk to them clearly and if you're asking about chicken, then the assumption must be that you're doing alright.

Crazy stuff. The drugs scared me more than the pain. I don't like to be out of my mind.

Thanks for the book recommendation. I'll be sure to check into it.

posted June 01, 2006 09:09 AM         

I've never researched this until now, but here is something I found on Demerol usage during labor:
http://www.radmid.demon.co.uk/pethidine.htm

Looks like I'm not alone.

posted June 02, 2006 01:19 PM         

I had no idea they offered Demerol for labor pains. It really does sound like a way to shut up the mother.

Harpyr ~ The birthing center is located within the hospital. It's on it's own floor, with it's own nurses, offers seperate birthing classes etc. There are 2 very nice, large rooms, each with a very good size private jacuzzi, labor balls and all that stuff. On the one hand, general procedure and overall attitude are very different from the main hospital. On the other hand, at the end of the day there is a large, corporate type hospital pulling it's strings. For instance, there is a loooong list of "complications" which will immediately send me upstairs to the main maternity ward. I get the feeling this is done less for the seriousness of the supposed complications and more to cover their butts in case anything actually did go wrong. At any rate, I have a mid-wife so if I did get sent to the dreaded "upstairs" I'm hoping she can maintain some degree of peace and calm in the room and fend off the nastier aspects of the medical establishment.

Oh well - next to a home birth, it's my best option. The closest free standing birthing center is 3 hours away.

quote:

---

Even though I use the wrap to carry the wee one alot, I do find that it's nice to have an alternate place to put her some times..those swings take up alot of space but they can be quite handy sometimes, like when I need to potty or cook over the stove.

---

Yeah, I hear ya. I bet a minute to pee in private will sound like heaven in few months. I think I'm still coming off of a profound state of shock induced by too many visits to the local Babies R' Us. What a racket.

posted June 09, 2006 08:40 PM         

Lately I've been researching good pregnancy workouts. They're kind of hard to come by.

posted June 09, 2006 09:48 PM         

From the back cover:
"Hygeia Halfmoon truly knows and can articulate the most basic, primal needs of infants and children with insight, consistency, and brevity - which is exceedingly rare. She knows of what she speaks, especially in the areas of caring for babies in a society which does not readily understand or respect their most basic human needs.
When babies are born, they don't know what century it is, nor do they know on which continent they were born, nor the standards or rules of conduct imposed by outside influences. They do know what they need, though. And so does Hygeia Halfmoon."
Jody McLaughlin, Editor/Publisher Compleat Mother Magazine

"Every woman who has felt the joy of following her most primal mothering instincts, and the pain of living in a world that often discourages her from doing so, will see herself in this book. Hygeia's story is both touching and inspiring, from her heartbreaking and unnecessary C-section, to her glorious unassisted home birth."
Laura Kaplan Shanley, Author Unassisted Childbirth

"Hygeia is bold, yet beautiful, courageous, yet compassionate; her writing will move you. After you have read Primal Mothering you will have the courage to live your dreams and join us on the way back to Paradise on Earth."
David Wolfe, Publisher, Lecturer, Author Nature's FIrst Law: The Raw-Food Diet

posted June 11, 2006 06:44 PM         

I agree with what you say about babies being left along in their cots and often in a seperate room. Another thing that used to really worry me was when prem babies had to go into an incubator; this seemed like extreme emotional cruelty, but thankfully these days we know better and mums and dads are allowed to touch and stroke their babes. Touch is so important.

I am a HpynoBirther and would love it to be available to everyone regardless of their financial circumstances.

posted June 12, 2006 10:05 PM         

Tell me more about hypnobirthing please, angelheart. From what I've read it sounds wonderful.

Next on my agenda is a mud wrestling match with my doctor over a little vaccine called Rhogam. Supposedly I need it because I'm Rh-and my husband is Rh+, which means the baby could be Rh+. Theoretically, if my blood and the baby's blood mixes I will form antibodies to his potentially Rh+ blood which could hurt both him and any future fetuses. (Are you following class?)

posted June 13, 2006 11:59 PM         

Goes to show how easy it is to be brainwashed by medical science. (Even for me, and I'm generally a bit more skeptical about these things than most people around me.) I hope that you find the answers you're looking for and that you and baby will make it through safely!

Regarding exercise, I did finally find some workouts at fitpregnancy.com. I'm going to get an exercise ball tomorrow and try it out. I know people use the balls for labor, too. Has anyone tried this?

Have you found any hypnobirth classes near you? I researched it after you wrote about it. It sounds interesting. I don't think anyone does it in my area.

Take care!

posted June 14, 2006 12:41 AM         

It makes me sick to think of how many babies are born at the doctors' or parents' convenience. I don't mean to sound so harsh right now, but it's really stirring up some things for me emotionally. Hope you don't mind if I let it out here.

I was induced with my son...although I didn't know that I was being induced. I had been having (mild) contractions through the night and I had a doctor's appointment scheduled that morning. I was exactly 40 weeks. When I went to see him, I told him about the contractions, then while he was examining me, I felt him to something different, but I had no idea what it was. He said, "Well, I just stripped your membranes for you, so I should be seeing you later this evening." And he did. I labored at home all day and went to the hospital at 10:30 that night. My contractions were strong enough at that point that I had to stop twice in the crosswalk on my way in. The nurses checked me and said I was only dilated 4cm, so they told me that I wasn't in labor and I should go home and drink some water. I tried to tell them that this was a bad idea. I live half an hour away from the hospital and I felt like I was going to die on the way in. (But manageable, you know? I just wanted to get where I needed to go and stay there.)

An hour later I was back, still no progress, but really awful contractions. (From what I understand I was pretty dehydrated, which is what stalled my labor. I don't know whether or not this is valid.) So OF COURSE the only thing to do was start me on pitocin. *sarcasm* (And the Demerol, which I had already mentioned.) My water still hadn't broken. (Baby's heart rate was fine, my blood pressure was fine.)

At 4:30 they decided that it was time to break my water, so they did, and started more pitocin. At about 8:00 am I was ready to push. I pushed for two hours before he finally came.

I really hated this birth. It seems clear to me that my son wasn't ready yet to be born. I had told my doctor all along that I wanted to try for a natural birth and I thought this would be enough. But once I got to the hospital, the actions of the nurses convinced me that something was wrong. They didn't explain anything to me, just said, "we need to do this, is that alright?" I assumed they had our best interests in mind. (I've learned a lot since then!)

I feel so much more well-informed this time around. I knew what I wanted last time around, but my mistake was in trusting that just because I had said it, they were going to help me make it happen.

************************************