posted April 20, 2007 09:37 PM         

My son nursed for 2 1/2 years with very little formula (only if I had to work later than expected and he had gone through his expressed supply, for example.)

It's a different story with my daughter. She seems to have an insatiable appetite and no matter what I do, I can't keep up with her needs.

Then begins the dreadful cycle: not enough expressed milk leads to supplementing which leads to less milk production.

We are still nursing daily around the clock, so it's not a total loss. I can only pump once while at work, which is okay because I work short shifts. But I CANNOT pump enough to keep her fed while I'm away.

She gets very frustrated and growls at me and pulls on me. Today I had to give her a bottle of formula myself directly after nursing, after which she (finally) contentedly fell asleep. Otherwise she cried hysterically.

I feel lousy.

I didn't have this problem with my son.

One difference: With him my period didn't return until he was around 8 months old. With my daughter it began within two months of her birth. I notice that my supply seems inadequate directly after ovulation, like now.

What to do? I can't starve her, yet I don't want to decrease my production.

Also, she isn't a comfort nurser... no long extended periods for her. She's been interested in solids since she was four months old, which I've offered only sparingly as not to encourage early weaning. My son wouldn't eat solids until he was a year old.

She's on the larger side. I've decided that this doesn't mean she needs more food, but maybe I'm wrong???

I feel really awful over all of this. I trust my body and my baby, but things aren't going the way I expected...

Also, I've tried the nursing in thing... staying in bed/on the couch almost all day to encourage more frequent feedings. My gut feeling tells me she's ready for more real food, but I've never believed in this.

posted April 20, 2007 11:12 PM         

I am sorry you are in this situation. I am not saying I know anything, but I just wanted to show you some support.

posted April 20, 2007 11:24 PM         

When she was 4 months old she started grabbing at my plate while I was eating. On a whim I grabbed a ripe banana and fed her a tiny bit.

She went crazy! Grunting and growling, arms and legs flailing. I gave her another bite, then another. She loved it.

I started out feeding her just for fun... if she was interested in my food and it was suitable, I'd offer her some. She's never refused.

I've always thought of early introduction to solids as a sort of "cop out" I guess. There is a lot of misinformation out there for nursing mommas. Her pediatrician told me (at 4 mos.) that I should start her on three meals a day plus a snack in addition to breastmilk.

That's when I stopped giving her solids altogether!

But, yes, she does seem very eager to eat real foods.

She's 6 mos now and weighs over 20 lbs. Not abnormally huge, but at the top of the growth chart.

I had such a wonderful, emotional nursing relationship with my son.

My daughter has never seemed to "need" me the way he did. She has pretty much always taken care of herself and has a very smooth temperament. She eats because she's hungry and that's that!

Thank you again for your reply. One never needs experience to offer support!

posted April 21, 2007 12:01 AM         

You're more experienced in this field than I am so don't think twice about saying "duh" if you feel it's appropriate.

I went through a scary period when my son was about 4 months old and experiencing a growth spurt. He was insatiable. I had just returned to work and I couldn't seem to keep up with him. I thought for sure we would need to supplement. Having read all the breastfeeding info I could get my hands on and being thoroughly indoctrinated into the breastfeeding cult, the very thought of supplementing with the dreaded formula sent shivers down my spine. Oh the guilt!
Oatmeal. Yup. Oatmeal. Every morning. Every damn morning. Plus Weleda nursing tea and Mother's Milk tea. And lots of it. I have twice stopped this ritual and the result was an immediate decrease in production. Very noticable. I also get my lazy ass out of bed everynight and pump a bottle. Keeps the girls active, you know?

Having said all that ... my baby seems only very barely interested in food. I've offered him banana and avocado and he wasn't particularly thrilled either time. He's a boob man. But if he were interested I'd say to hell with the rules and let him eat bananas morning, noon and night. Don't feel bad about it, future. If she wants it, she wants it. I think sometimes it's harder for the mommies to let go of breastfeeding than it is for the babies. Understandably so, I suppose.

posted April 21, 2007 12:29 AM         

quote:

---

Having read all the breastfeeding info I could get my hands on and being throughly indoctrinated into the breastfeeding cult, the very thought of supplementing with the dreaded formula sent shivers down my spine. Oh the guilt!

---

You said it!

I so, so, SO didn't want to give her formula tonight, but when she guzzled it down and went straight to sleep, I knew that I had done the right thing in that moment. I would like to boost my supply nonetheless, because like it or not, she's gettin' the boobies for at least another six months!

Her independence can be a bit hard to take at times, although I try to let her be herself without interference. It's the BF literature that I've been reading (which served me very well with my son, so I don't want to criticize) that makes me feel like I am doing something terribly wrong.

The girl wants to eat food. She really, really does.

Thanks for sharing your experience, TINK. And enjoy your happy little nurser. They are truly a blessing!

posted April 21, 2007 10:38 AM         

future... my moon is in Libra. hence my lovely signature!!

posted April 21, 2007 08:37 PM         

I had trouble starting a supply when my son was first born and fell into the "supplement" myth then. It took me a while to establish a good supply without having to pump and constantly nurse (about 2 - 3 months) but it was worth it. However, by the time my son was 5 1/2 months, he was just ravenous no matter how much I nursed him.

I started him on a few solid foods and he was satisfied. He'll be 2 in June and we're still breastfeeding but now it's only 3 times a day (morning/nap/evening) and not for a very long time.

I was afraid that starting him on solids "early" was going to diminish the supply I worked so hard to establish. I suppose it did, in the long run, but it was just because my son's body was telling him he needed different foods. And we're still breastfeeding today so I don't feel like I've "cheated" him at all, which I used to worry about also.

In the end, I had to accept that his body knows better than any theories I've grown attached to. Even when those theories apply to a lot of people, they're not going to work for everyone.

I've also learned to listen to my own body more instead of relying heavily on what "experts" say.

posted April 21, 2007 10:12 PM         

Thank you for your story, too.

It's nice to know that I'm not alone.

We're still nursing around the clock, daily, so at the very least, I know that I am giving her absolutely everything I possibly have to give.

I finally weighed her today... she's 22 lbs, so we must be doing something right, right?!

I want to try the tea TINK mentioned. I can't get myself to eat oatmeal, though. Why can't pasta be a milk inducing food?!

Even with my son I didn't have an overabundant milk supply. It was difficult for me then to pump enough for the time I was away. But I was undoubtedly able. I work less now than I did when he was little.

I just realized another difference between the two... Indie is an enthusiastic thumb sucker. I have no doubt that this satisfies enough of her sucking needs to diminish my supply at least a little bit.

Anyway, thanks ladies for your stories and support. I think anyone who has tried breastfeeding exclusively knows how upsetting this situation can be.

Eleanor... I was also happy to hear that your little one still nursed long term. It gives me hope that this relationship will continue past the one year mark! And if not, well... that's up to her, I guess and I'll cross that bridge when it comes.

posted April 21, 2007 10:15 PM         

Interesting that you're a Libra moon. My honey has a lot of planets in Libra. His moon is Aries.

I'd like to talk to you more about this sometime and how these placements affect you.

posted April 22, 2007 10:49 AM         

I had a very hard time nursing my son. He had failure to trive. THe Dr. kept telling me that the breast milk was enough, but he gained weight so slowy, I finally gave up at about 9 months.

posted April 22, 2007 04:40 PM         

I have my Moon, Venus, Uranus, and Pluto all in Libra.... all but Pluto are in my 11th house. What's your hubby have?

posted April 22, 2007 10:32 PM         

I'll come up with some questions for you and post in Astrology as soon as I get time.

This could be interesting! I would love to hear how these placements affect you.

posted April 22, 2007 10:38 PM         

I guess I should consider myself lucky that my baby will drink formula or breastmilk, and will take from breast and bottle. She's happy, she's healthy, and if I had to look for a silver lining, her grandparents really enjoy having the chance to feed her. :/

I'm going to try some of these things out as soon as I get the tea and some oatmeal. I'll let you know how it works out.

Thank you, thank you, THANK YOU for your replies. This has been very difficult for me and your posts have helped me to put things in perspective and get the motivation to think POSITIVE.

posted April 23, 2007 02:39 PM         

I came across it a week or so ago but haven't had the time to make them yet. Sounded promising though.

Naiad introduced me to the site. I don't know if you've come across it, Future. The whole thing has lots of interesting info I've found to be very helpful. You need to weed through of course, but that's no different than anywhere else really. There is a forum dedicated to breastfeeding.

posted April 23, 2007 04:53 PM         

She in no way was a "nurser" like my son, so I started having problems with my supply and remember the vicious cycle of pumping, guilt, supplementing etc., yuck.

My son is cudly Taurus and daughter a Aries-Sun, Moon, Mercury and Venus...a very determined young lady. Needless to say, I had to do things her way, lol

I had loved nursing my son for the two years and had looked forward to the same with my daughter, having that bond...however, she had something else in mind....at 6 mos old, it was like she didn't need me, lol, I believe I struggled to stretch it out to a year, and it seemed that I was the only one wanting the nursing, she was happy as could be without. (pout, pout)

posted April 24, 2007 04:08 PM         

How old is your daughter now? Does your relationship with her differ significantly from that with your son? It is hard when they seem so determined and independent so early on. I'm not a clinging mother type, but I do enjoy the brief babyhood period.

Thanks for sharing your story. It's hard not to feel like her feeding habits aren't a result of something I've done wrong. Kinda messes with the ol' guilt switch, I think!

TINK, I haven't checked into that link yet, but thanks for sending it. Always looking for good mama sites!

posted April 24, 2007 06:29 PM         

I think, sometimes, we need to look at things from both sides and in the end follow our own instincts. Weigh up the pros and cons to try and find the balance. (There you go- my Libra moon is speaking).

posted April 24, 2007 06:41 PM         

It's amazing to me that none of the bf websites or books mention this. The only thing I find over and over is that

A) No matter how hungry my baby is, I will have plenty of milk.

and

B) If you're feeding solids at 6 mos or earlier then you're only doing it out of ignorance.

Okay... so they don't come right out and say that, but the implication is there, I think.

LTT, my son is also a very picky eater and I have wondered if it is because he was so partial to nursing.

My daughter, it seems, will eat anything. Food or not!

posted April 24, 2007 09:33 PM         

future- i get so upset by things like those websites you are mentioning.
EVERY person, baby, is unique, and to be told that you are doing it wrong is so tragic, IMO. I don't think its right to be locked into into a paradigm that may or may not work. It sooo bothers me how every "authority" feels the need to make moms feel bad about everything they do.

whatever works is good. i don't believe motherhood can be made logical. its too organic. i wouldn't want to take the magic and mystery out of it.

posted April 24, 2007 10:29 PM         

I know you all know what I mean!

TINK, I'm still laughing at the picture of you getting up to eat oatmeal... again! And stumbling out of bed at three a.m. to pump.

That's dedication, girl! What a rockin' mama!

A little update... we're doing a bit better now. She probably wonders what's up with the breastals in her face all the time. EAT, CHILD!

But she outsmarts me every time I try to fix things by feeding her more during the day... she eats less through the night.

Aaaaaaaargh!

But I am feeling much better, more confident in our "system."

Another hurdle... my mom watches her 2x/week and feeds her A LOT! No matter how much bmilk I send, she goes through it and then formula AND cereal.

I've said something.

She feels it's her grandmotherly duty, I suppose... *sigh*

pick and choose your battles, pick and choose your battles...

posted April 25, 2007 05:06 AM         

As far as weaning goes, I really believe that some babies need solids before 6 months and are truly ready. I think that the concern is not that they are being fed, but WHAT they are being fed- you know, as long as the basic guidelines are followed, then there shouldn't be any problem at all, although I was much more relaxed with my second- I didn't bother with feeding him one type of vegetable at a time over a couple of days to see whether he had an allergic reaction, and then go on to the next. How long would that take to introduce everything, lmao!? Some things you read you just have to take into account along with your own initiative.

Btw- Great that you have her grandmother there to help!

posted April 30, 2007 04:07 PM         

I am going through problems as well!

how odd, I breastfed extended( militantly as well, not a drop of formula for any of my kids) with no issues whatsoever with both of my older kids... NOw with my new six week old, he is a definate bob man, and he is growing voraciously, but he always wants to nurse.. more a comfort/sucky thing... and we're both still new at the relationship technically.

My problem is.. mastitis.
For whatever reason, I got one blocked duct when he was about a week and a half old. it fixed itself with much pain, but no 'flu like symptoms' of an actual infection.... it worked itself out..
well, after that I got another blogged duct, same breast, two weeks later!!!! This time it was horrid, and lasted a while, it kept coming back, horribly bad flu like symptoms, sore breast, blocked duct.. oh I can't explain how bad it was. I had to take antibiotics.
I felt better, and now again, ( He is six weeks old today) Last night I started feeling a sore breast again.. then today, I woke up feeling a tad ill.
Again!!! It's back.
So now we are dealing with a reoccurrant problem.
He had his last midwife appt today and she had much sympathy for my plight, but the advice was the same as what I have been doing...