posted May 27, 2008 12:07 PM         

I have cut meat out of her diet now since she was about 2 1/2 and she has just turned 3. No meat products, but still all dairy foods, including eggs.

I've just read Linda's theory in Star Signs, of the fifteen year transition to becoming a fruitarian, etc.. (First 5 year period is eating fish, fowel, eggs, dairy products, fruit and veg but no red meat; Second 5 year period is eating fruit, veg, etc and all dairy foods except eggs, but no meat of any kind; Third 5 year period is eating only fruit, breads and cereals and eliminating veg and dairy products).

I'm now really worried about the health implications on my daughter if i continue to not feed her meat. Has anyone done or doing the 15 year transition? And what is the best way to go about it if you have already completely cut out meat?

Everything i had read, (until i read Linda's take on it in Star Signs,) said that children can easily thrive without meat, provided they were given the right food supplements.

posted May 28, 2008 09:41 PM         

And while there are numbers of communities around the world that have practiced some form of vegetarianism historically, you can also find that most of these communities tended to lag behind in cultural and intellectual developments when compared to meat-consuming communities. Historically, populations that lack meat in their diet are also prone to certain types of malnutrition, and are vulnerable to a number of health problems.

Another thing is most human food allergies are to vegetable proteins - corn, soy, wheat, peanuts, tree nuts, and chocolate being the most common. Curiously, food allergies to animal products are mainly with cow milk and eggs. Meat is the only natural hypoallergenic source of complete protein in the human diet. This is because all humans evolved to digest and utilize animal proteins, but how well we've evolved to digest certain vegetable proteins depends on where our specific ancestors came from and what plants were available to them. This means tolerance of certain vegetable proteins - especially soy, corn and wheat - is relatively new in our evolution, and not everyone has yet inherited those genes. And even though an individual doesn't exhibit severe allergic symptoms, there's no guarantee that their body is genetically capable of utilizing enough different kinds of vegetable proteins to meet their nutritional needs.

These are some things veggie advocates like to gloss over (or remain ignorant about), because the reality is it's a lot more complicated to get all the nutrition you need without meat than with it. This is especially true of young, developing child.

If you still think making your child go veggie is a good idea, then I STRONGLY advise you to do ALL of the following:

- go to your pediatrician and tell him/her you want to change your daughter's diet. Have them check her for anemia, diabetes and any other health issue that may be diet related

- see an allergist and have your daughter tested to make sure she's not allergic to any foods

posted May 29, 2008 07:32 AM         

Provided the veggie diet is perfect with all the nutrients required for the body, i dont think there is any need to worry about getting your daughter into the 'veggie-path'.

IndyCrab

posted May 29, 2008 12:04 PM         

But since you asked for opinions, Going vegan can be very good for you, or as Mercury pointed out, it can be bad because the person is not educated on what their body needs for optimal health. Young children do need essential fatty acids for building their brain; it is also needed to develop their immune system. I disagree that meat is essential to brain and immune system developement. Meat is not the only way to get essential fatty acids and other necessary vitamins and minerals. Plants do have all of that, and are easier to digest! You can also supplement your diet with different nuts and seeds to get your proteins. I think I heard/read that meat sits in your stomach for 3-5 hrs after you eat it! I've read that food that sits in your stomach putrifies- as in rots- gross!

Chew on this; look at your teeth. Those are not the teeth of a carnivore. We are meant to eat plants and nuts (see the one tooth -top and bottom- on either side of your mouth? probably to break open nuts etc..) Humans began eating meats during winter because there weren't any fruits available. Meat is actually hard on your digestive system. I see you are from Australia, but here in America, they have actually approved the sale of cloned meant

posted June 02, 2008 11:45 AM         

Mercury: Thanks for those tips, i'm looking into seeing a nutritionist and will get her tested for allergies.

A couple of things u said: (i dont know how to do a proper quote yet)

Quote:

1."I admit I have pretty strong feeling against forcing children to eat a vegetarian or vegan diet, especially that young".

I can understand u feeling that way b.cos thats's how we've been programmed to feel. The thing is, i have just as strong feelings about killing animals, then feeding their dead flesh to my child. When u think about it, do we really know of any children that would be ok with that if they knew exactly what it means, the torturing and the suffering that we inflict on those animals for them to be able to eat it?

Children are fresh and innocent. They're a clean slate. I don't know about u, but i want to use this great opportunity to introduce her to a life where she is not participating in such hyprocacy and lack of compassion.

Adults only eat meat right now because our parents fed it to us, as their parents did to them and they did not know any different nor did it enter into their minds that that was, in any way, abnormal, because it's 'just the way it was'.

Now, more and more people are realising that killing animals is not a neccessity at all, and being 'blind to that fact', i believe, is a conscious choice to remain ignorant to the truth; either to repress guilt or so as not to have to sacrifice pleasure.

Imagine this: instead of saying to my daughter, 'come and get dinner, we're having beef and vegetables'.. i said 'come and get dinner, we're having dead cow and vegetables (which is telling her exactly what she is eating instead of calling it 'beef.') She would say 'what mummy, dead cow? What do u mean?' She wouldn't know the least of it.

So just because it's what people have done in the past and our bodies have become accustomed to it etc, does that mean that i should just continue to do the same even though every fibre of my being hates the thought of it, let alone the act of it??

Quote:

2."In fact, anthropologists are beginning to understand how the introduction of fish and seafood in into the human diet, with all the fatty acids and certain types of cholesterol found in those animals, addition to the other meat and plants human were already eating, was likely the critical thing that enable humans to develop a much more creative brain than other animals".

It has been proven that everything we need to sustain a healthy diet is already growing on this earth. But, if that were the case, humans can stay one step ahead of animals only by killing and eating them? Does that make us proud? We have to continue to feed off them in order to be as intelligent as we are. But what gives us the right in the first place to do that? Because we can reason intellectually and they can't, that gives us the right to dominate them and take their lives to benefit ours? When we can naturally and quite simply choose to get our nutritional requirements elsewhere.

Animals don't get a say, they can't fight against our man made weapons, they suffer so much, in silence. They live peacefully; we come and take them away and slaughter them.

I feel lucky that i am enlightened enough to realise this and to stop contributing to it in my own life. Please read Linda Goodman's Star Signs, Chapter 2 "An Apple a Day". Pg 39-45.

If we stopped it, it would stop!

posted June 02, 2008 01:40 PM         

Indy- Hey, yeah 4 sure there are many people that have been vegan since birth and been just as healthy, even throughout pregnancy. It's very doable! :-)

Ellabelle- Hi, yes i've done alot of reseach on vegetarianism, not as much on veganism although it tends to come up alot anyway. I know of all the foods that are required to supplement meat and how to eat them together to get the best benefit, etc.

Yeah i don't think it's natural at all for us to eat meat!

The cloned meat, is that the same thing that i read on this forum about PETA offering $1 mill reward for first person to come up with In Vitro meat? I don't know too much about it, but it sounds pretty crazy..
Anything that's formed so artificially like that tho can't be good 4 u!

Robyn- Thanks so much:-) I totally agree with what u said. Good on u for that 2:-)

posted June 06, 2008 12:53 AM         

People who eat non vegetarian when plenty of vegetarian is available must be non-aesthetic.

But having said that - I eat non veg because in America there is lack of delicious and variety veg items in restaurants. I am on the road most time and never cook. Of late i have stuck with fish/dairy/and egg on few occassions.

Ramakrishna used to eat fish.
Mohammed used to eat meat.
Jesus used to eat both I think.
But they were enlightened.

I think people who eat veg has a different energy/vibe around them. Its not physical, its of the beyond.
Also who knows if the masters experiences different peaks of enlightenment. But note that I believe all masters are equal no one higher or lower. Just their expressions are different.

posted June 08, 2008 09:18 PM         

Egg is a rich source of protein for a vegetarian , it should not be stopped unless substituted by equally rich veg source of protein.

Unfertilized egg has no life in it. so its not non-veg.

Intelligence perhaps is dependent on protein. So the more protein you eat the more intelligent you become

Just my theory.

posted August 20, 2008 03:06 AM         

quote:

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My first question for you is, besides reading how good it is for you, have you done a good amount of research on going vegan?

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Being a Vegan is much, much different than being a vegetarian.

I have been was a vegetarian 3 years before i became a vegan. Which i currently am now, and have been for about a year.. a vegan i mean.

A Vegetarian is someone who does not consume meat. A Vegan is someone who does not eat any sort of animal product, or bi-product. Big difference.

When i became a vegetarian, i admit that i was not as educated on the matter as i should have been. I simply cut out meat and protein cold turkey. Very stupid choice for my health. I had no supplements. No vitamins. Just quit. And i couldn't understand why i suddenly gained weight, out of nowhere. When i went to my doctor, i was informed that my body had gone into starvation mode and was storing everything that i ate as fat so that my body would have energy and nutrients. I also experienced a string of blood problems. I had low iron. Low protein. My immune system became flimsy and i started getting sick often. Tsk tsk, stupid me.

SO, my advice to you to begin with is make sure that your daughter is getting ALL of the essential vitamins BEFORE you even take her off of the meat. I would strongly suggest B vitamins, and protein supplements. Lots and lots of fruits. When i first became a vegetarian, i had horrible headaches, and i had no energy at all. It can be sincerely taxing on the body. Especially for one so young.

Also, foods like nuts, avocados, beans, and berries would be extremely beneficial to not only her health, but yours as well.

If you are thinking about going Vegan, i suggest the previous statements even more seriously. Becoming a vegetarian, though wonderful and challenging, is considerably easier than being a vegan. I'm not saying this to tute my own horn, i'm offering you the advice i never got. You never really realize how much our society depends on animals until you chop animals out of the equation. Food becomes more expensive, and your choices are harshly limited. Which, is quite good for you because the things that you can no longer eat were probably TERRIBLE for you anyways. Also it is sort of inevitable that you're not going to have much energy. I sleep approximately 14 hours a day.

Having said that, i pride myself in being very intelligent, so all that rubbish about not being able to be an intellectual without meat, is just that-rubbish. I respect and encourage your choice to lead your child down the path of "righteousness". Hope what i said helped some!

posted October 02, 2008 12:17 AM         

quote:

---

Another thing is most human food allergies are to vegetable proteins - corn, soy, wheat, peanuts, tree nuts, and chocolate being the most common. Curiously, food allergies to animal products are mainly with cow milk and eggs. Meat is the only natural hypoallergenic source of complete protein in the human diet. This is because all humans evolved to digest and utilize animal proteins, but how well we've evolved to digest certain vegetable proteins depends on where our specific ancestors came from and what plants were available to them. This means tolerance of certain vegetable proteins - especially soy, corn and wheat - is relatively new in our evolution, and not everyone has yet inherited those genes. And even though an individual doesn't exhibit severe allergic symptoms, there's no guarantee that their body is genetically capable of utilizing enough different kinds of vegetable proteins to meet their nutritional needs.

---

These allergies to plant matter usually manifest by puberty or before.
The more a growing child is exposed to the more chance of allergies. Also yes, milk and eggs too.
I did develop life threatening allergies and had to endure 4 years of 4 shots a week to build up insensitivity to what I could. I also had to avoid eggs, milk and grains, even while pregnant. My pre puberty diet was mainly vegetarian...meat being a holiday rarity...thus the horrible allergies.
I suffered from severe anemia also and disorientation.
It seems along with the allergies, and O- blood type(more likely to develop allergies to plant based diets and suffer from iron deficiency, gas cramps, diarrhea and so forth)I cannot absorb iron from plants or supplements, nor B12.
After avoiding grains, milk and eggs for over 2 1/2 decades along with the shots, I can finally eat grains again and drink milk and eat eggs.
The only things that did not affect me negatively were beef, fresh fish, lean pork, lamb.
Vegetarianism is not for everyone.
The only things found not to raise my blood sugar are again, beef, lamb, pork, eggs, milk. Oddly fish raises it and ALL vegetables and fruit.
Grains give me real bad trouble with my IBS(my abdomen can increase within minutes by as much as 17 inches after consuming a small amount of only plant matter! Very very agonizing!) and raise my blood sugar like crazy.
Meat is gentle on my digestion, plant matter is often nightmarish for me.

I am all for vegetarianism...
FOR THOSE WHOSE BODIES CAN HANDLE IT!

As to testing a 3 year old for allergies, it may not help as most food allergies usually do not manifest that young.
Food allergies are also hard to test for.

BTW, I do eat alot of vegetables, raw mostly.
I love vegetables, but I can become quite ill, even up to having to visit the ER from time to time because of them, especially grains.
I have to balance them carefully with meat.
Mercury2008 also said:

quote:

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Meat has been very critical in the evolution of human biology, particularly in the development of our brains. Children need not just the protein but also various fatty acids, minerals and vitamins, and the nutrients we get from meat sources primarily benefit brain function and development. In fact, anthropologists are beginning to understand how the introduction of fish and seafood in into the human diet, with all the fatty acids and certain types of cholesterol found in those animals, addition to the other meat and plants human were already eating, was likely the critical thing that enable humans to develop a much more creative brain than other animals.

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