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alma_pisces
Knowflake

Posts: 288
From: bottom of the ocean
Registered: Sep 2004

posted June 02, 2008 02:04 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for alma_pisces     Edit/Delete Message
I do not know what to do anymore, my brother hadn't touched a drink for 4 years and lately he has fallen back to his alcohol addiction and we don't know what to do anymore, he obviously does not want to seek help and we are just exhausted with this situation.

I am thinking about an intervention but I am not sure if that really works.

I am not getting any sleep anymore because of it..........

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fieryscales
Moderator

Posts: 692
From: My own private world
Registered: Jan 2008

posted June 02, 2008 02:24 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for fieryscales     Edit/Delete Message
I am sorry to hear that AP
Do you know the cause of why he is back to drinking? Perhaps you could work backwards from there and sort it out?
Also, he needs all of your support now so please just give it to him, even if he is acting like a jerk ( due to drinking). Let him know that you all love him and want to help him get off the drink.

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6916
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted June 02, 2008 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
alma ~

I disagree with fiery..... oftentimes, supporting an alcoholic is enabling them to continue in their disease and NOT "get well" or seek any kind of help.

You might want to read thru this thread:
http://www.linda-goodman.com/ubb/Forum7/HTML/009885.html

I have had personal experience with alcoholism, but please note that I am NOT a professional counselor. Alcoholics (and other addicts) will do almost *anything* to acquire their drug of choice. They will drain family and friends of assets, time and affection. Unless they "hit bottom" and decide to "get well," nothing is going to help. YOU can't help them. They must find the strength to help themselves.

If you are in the USA (and many other countries in the world) then AA -- Alcoholics Anonymous -- can be a lifesaver. But only if the alcoholic wants his life saved. I have a neighbor, a 50yo woman, who drinks daily to excess. She has nothing, lives in a room in a friends house, and goes to her dead-end job at a film-developing business downtown on the bus (too many DWIs) every day with a hangover. She swears she will never stop drinking and that she still enjoys her life. Well, OK.

For your own sanity, as hard as it is, you must find a way to detach. There are support groups for the families of alcoholics (Al-Anon) -- look in your phone directory or online. Please learn about your options before you make any decisions.

I'm sending courage to you and your family with this post

~ Zala

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hippichick
Knowflake

Posts: 2144
From: The Ether
Registered: Jan 2006

posted June 03, 2008 07:07 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
OOdles of expereince with addicts of all types, both professionally and personally.

AA and the like, in my opinion does not work, really, just trades one addiction for another.

An addictive personality is an addictive personality, and unless the addict is willing (and able) to delve deep into their psyche to discover the root of their addictions, all the "treatment" in the world will not help.

An addict has to recongize their behavior as something they do not like about themselves and have a very strong desire to change, or else they will not.

Usually the case they never do.

Takes huge emotional fortitude to look into the mirror and say "yuck!!!" Takes even greater strength to want to change one's inherant personality.

I do not believe in supporting addicts with their addictions, and often they must reach rock bottem before they are ready to make the move, but understand where he is coming from.

This is his choice as a soul and a human being, you can do little, but pray.

Sending blessings

T~~~

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robyn.c
Knowflake

Posts: 157
From: england
Registered: Dec 2007

posted June 03, 2008 07:12 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for robyn.c     Edit/Delete Message
you say he doesnt want to seek help, (perhaps from past experience you know) that you cant help him. alcohol is so underestimated, available so freely and wrecks so many lives...
if you are playing things over in your mind, try saying a mantra, like, "i will help him when he's ready" give those helplines a ring for more practical/day to day advice. you are not alone

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AceNeerav
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Posts: 64
From: Mumbai, Maharashtra, India
Registered: Apr 2008

posted June 03, 2008 09:35 AM     Click Here to See the Profile for AceNeerav     Edit/Delete Message
does he have something worrying or bothering him?

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6916
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted June 03, 2008 05:50 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
AA and the like, in my opinion does not work, really, just trades one addiction for another.
Terri, I gotta respectfully disagree. Have you been to AA meetings yourself?? I've BEEN thru the AA program, and have had friends who successfully made it into recovery too, thanks to the efforts of this wonderful, selfless, grassroots "society."

What "addiction" were you talking about "trading"?? 12-step programs emphasize trust in a Higher Power, but that doesn't mean they're "religious" in any way. You can choose to participate in the prayer at the end, or not.

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hippichick
Knowflake

Posts: 2144
From: The Ether
Registered: Jan 2006

posted June 03, 2008 06:25 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
Hey, Z

I have been to AA meetings as well, not for myself, but the late hubbie and a dear friend, and have touched on the matter professionally.

In my perception, the 12 step program "addicts" folks to a "higher power", "god" etc. It is kind of like a mental reorientation of focusing a deep, inner lack onto something else.

And it does work in some cases.

I have a dear friend with not a monkey on her back, but a gorrilla..... two of them!!!She, when trying to quit drinking, turned to narcs from work (a fellow nurse), she has been through rehab and rehab and struggles every day to keep sober, almost lost her nursing license twice..and I know she still drinks. She had become savvy about it, but she still drinks. AA did not work for her nor rehab because, and she will tell you, nobody has bothered to deal with the deeper issues she has, everybody wants to "fix" her with this and that and nobody had delved into her soul...

(except me)

Her bfriend is a "recovering" coke head. They met in rehab. He is the perfect example of pop psych-culture failure of treatment of addicts....he no longer does coke, but he gambles, not alot of money, they traverse the Texas Hill Country going from poker tournament to tournament just to compete.....just a redirected addiction.

I agree, AA has helped many, but AA does not address what is at the root of the issue. It is like a pill to take care of a symptom of something...

Having said that...

Some folks have organic brain disease, some folks have hormonal/chemical imbalances. AA does not address this, either, to my knowledge.

I think pop psych-culture poo-poo's people's "head issues" away with labling them as "alcoholics," "junkies," etc.

I am willing and have stopped for a moment to reallize there is so much more to the human brain than lables.

And it angers me that the current (medical) psychiatriac field of professionals cop-out on re-directing the addiction and not going deeper.....

Well.........what could you have expected from a Fish, anyway...depth.

O, one more example. A Fish as a matter of fact, who has PTSD (post traumatic stress disorder) from a really messed up marrige. A Fish who loves to escape, astrologers (including herself) would write off her tendency to "chemically" escape from time to time as quite Neptunian...true enough! However, PTSD messes up brain chemistry like you would not believe. Any little fear reminiscent of her original fear can set her off into a kind of like speed state, over stimulated, etc. And when adrenaline kicks in, like when too tired and must keep going, again.....she becomes way over stimulated. AND under a heavy Uranus transit, when the central nervous system is sped up anyway.....look out.

Alcoholic? NO! Just a human response to medicate what is wrong physically.

My point, I just wish folks would look a bit deeper.........

Lables are for the birds.

Love to you, Zala....

Alampisces, love to you too, and your bro, this crap ain't easy, and how blessed is he to have you as a sister!!!

T~~~

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hippichick
Knowflake

Posts: 2144
From: The Ether
Registered: Jan 2006

posted June 03, 2008 07:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
O, and as an afterthought (whilst cleaning my house )

My gfriend I mentioned, flew through the windshield of a car when she was a young woman, she is now in her late 30's.

I have always been so convinced, both as a medical clinician and a very intuitive individual that her brain was injured in the wreck, not to mention the psychological damage of the horrible car wreck she survived, the lenghty hospitalization that followed and the light physical deformities (including a glass eye) that my beautiful Beth has to deal with.

I think she needs CT/MRI scans and indepth research, but will anybody listen to me?

No, to them she is just an alcoholic, a junkie who stole morphine, demerol, etc. from her employer just to get high...

Silly, silly folks.

T~~~

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Azalaksh
Moderator

Posts: 6916
From: New Brighton, MN, USA
Registered: Nov 2004

posted June 03, 2008 10:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Azalaksh     Edit/Delete Message
Hey T ~

Wonderful examples, and deep thoughts
Sending lots of loves & hugs to the Pisces lady with PTSD

It's true that AA doesn't "fix" you. They show you A way (one of many paths) back to your *own* toolbox and help you break the rusted lock. Then they stand by ready to help, while you open up the toolbox, try several tools and find one that works. But the WORK itself -- the delving for the causative issues -- must be done by you (the addict).

They do encourage putting your "faith" in a Power Greater Than Yourself -- but that Higher Power is up to you to choose. They use the term "God" and the capitalized pronouns because most people understand those words as symbols of powers Beyond Human. Since many alcoholics struggle for years trying to quit, and fail, they feel that no human power can "cure" them of their disease -- thus the giving-it-up-to-God angle.

Some people choose God, others their own Higher Self, or even the core group at the meeting as their Higher Power. If "God" works for those who choose Him/Her, then I think that's a healthier "addiction" than alcohol or drugs ;-)) I wasn't raised in organized religion, and I was squeamish about the "God" thing, so I chose my own Higher Self, and I'm here today, clean'n'sober for over 13 years.

Here's a Q&A from Yahoo Answers:

Q: If alcoholics anonymous says to find a Higher Power in a God as you "understand Him" then why at the end of meetings do they always pray the Lords Prayer? You know the "our Father who art in heaven"...

A: Good question. I'd always thought it was for this reason :

AA was started back in the 1930's by a couple of WASP guys. Hence "The Lord's Prayer" at the end - most, if not all, of the early AA members were some form of Christian. Not for reasons of exclusivity, but just 'coz that's who happened to show up in the early days.

Over the years, any changes to the program of The Program were usually met with outcries of trepidation, if not fear - fear of diluting the original program. Not out of prejudice or intolerance for other religions - it will always be "a loving God as you understand..." etc. I think the idea is to stick to the original format of those long-ago original meetings as much as possible.

I'm not a Christian, but if I'm moved to say the Lord's Prayer at the end, I will. I am free to apply whatever interpretation to that prayer that suits me. The only requirement for 'membership' is a desire to stop drinking.

I still have my AA books..... I'm keeping them for my son. With 1/4 Cherokee blood, and predisposed genetically from both his parents and several grandparents, I suspect he will have struggles with substances. I'll see if I can find the box they're in, alma -- and try to pull out some good stories and quotes.

Love to you, hippi

Here's the 12 Steps -- the meetings I went to were very big on the 10th Step --

The 12 Suggested Steps of Alcoholics Anonymous ~

1. We admitted we were powerless over alcohol -- that our lives had become unmanageable.

2. Came to believe that a Power greater than ourselves could restore us to sanity.

3. Made a decision to turn our will and our lives over to the care of God as we understood Him.

4. Made a searching and fearless moral inventory of ourselves.

5. Admitted to God, to ourselves and to another human being the exact nature of our wrongs.

6. Were entirely ready to have God remove all these defects of character.

7. Humbly asked Him to remove our shortcomings.

8. Made a list of all persons we had harmed, and became willing to make amends to them all.

9. Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others.

10. Continued to take personal inventory and when we were wrong promptly admitted it.

11. Sought through prayer and meditation to improve our conscious contact with God, as we understood Him, praying only for knowledge of His will for us and the power to carry that out.

12. Having had a spiritual awakening as the result of these steps, we tried to carry this message to alcoholics, and to practice these principles in all our affairs.

In the end tho, what it ALL comes down to (for your brother, alma, or any other substance abuser) IS:

How bad do you want it (freedom from addiction) ???

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hippichick
Knowflake

Posts: 2144
From: The Ether
Registered: Jan 2006

posted June 03, 2008 11:34 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for hippichick     Edit/Delete Message
Z~~~

T~~~

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tuxedo meow
Knowflake

Posts: 897
From: Texas Gulf Coast, USA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 13, 2008 01:52 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for tuxedo meow     Edit/Delete Message
My daughter has a dual addiction but has been in self recovery for awhile now. One, she moved from the little town she was in where availability was too easy (although I do realize addicts are addicts anywhere)and I gave her a small purple plate to keep on her person at all times. She says her cravings deadened not only to alcohol and drug of choice but to cigarettes, too. Don't know what the answer is for everyone but she had been using since her early teens and is now in her mid-thirties-Good Blessings, Tuxedo Meow

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