posted June 06, 2014 08:33 AM            

The second harmonic is the opposition.

The 4th harmonic of interest here is the square, the T/square and the Grand Cross.

I've realized that people who have these 2nd/4th harmonics aspects in their natal charts would trigger someone else's midpoints in a more grandiose manner.

Those who have squares/oppositions will always bring two planets on the other's midpoint.

Those with a T/square will bring 3 planets on the other's midpoint.

And those with a natal Grand Cross, if they activate one of the other's midpoints with their squared planets, they will bring no less than 4 planets.

Of course, the above mentioned aspects in the natal have to be in close orb for this to happen. But I think we can assume that even those aspects are a bit above 2 deg., the impact of the entire opposition, square, T/square, Grand Cross will still be felt. The impact will probably be in tune with the nature of the aspect/configuration.

Naturally, a small percentage of people have a planetary Grand Cross in their natal, but many people already having planetary 2nd/4th harmonic aspects also have a completion of those with some major asteroids or angles. Like, for example, a T/square between Mars Neptune and Eros.

If we are to talk about romantic relationships and synastries (and we do lol), "love aspects" in the 2nd/4th harmonics range will have the most significant impact.

2nd/4th harmonics "love aspects" would include personal planets (Sun to Mars)/love combinations with outers like Venus Pluto, Venus Neptune, Mars Neptune etc./love asteroids and, of course, angles and possibly planets that have a potential love impact on the other (for example, someone's 5th, 5th or 8th house ruler is Saturn, so he/she has a soft spot for Saturnian energy when it comes to love, hence someone's Saturn on one of his "love midpoints" like Sun/Venus, Venus/Mars etc could have a different, more romantic effect than for other people).

Probably this is not a nice thing to say, since I said I was inspired by my own chart (where I have some important "love" 2nd/4th harmonic aspects), but I think it is safe to say, for the sake of astrological research, that people who have 2nd/4th harmonics love aspects in their natal chart are probably more attractive for other people, because when they touch their midpoints, they do it overwhelmingly.

EDIT: This also explains why many people with close hard aspects in their natals, especially between love planets, are considered generally attractive.

I'll post my example soon.

Do you have love 2nd/4th in your natal? And how do you impact the other's midpoints in synastry?

posted June 06, 2014 08:38 AM            

I just wanted to start a thread on midpoints. Or add to the one Karka Queen already has.

As for love-midpoints, I am going to post my musings from th eother thread there, even though it might not fit "perfectly" here, but better than start another one I think.

posted June 06, 2014 08:46 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:

As for love-midpoints, I am going to post my musings from th eother thread there, even though it might not fit "perfectly" here, but better than start another one I think.

---

posted June 06, 2014 08:51 AM            

Moon/Jupiter, Venus/Jupiter, Sun/Jupiter is cool, too. Good expansive feelings, a real liking for the other person, but I`d only see Venus/Jupiter as romantic.

However Pluto/Node can be extremely compelling. Not love per se, but this compulsive feeling of fatedness.

Mars/Pluto is a mixed bag, I`d look what else is connected to it.
On the one hand if coming with the love-midpoints, can increase the passion multiple times. But in fact it can increase it so much, that the person might go mad (Venus/Pluto is similiar, but not as active about it, there it is the feeling of being overwhelmed by passion). And depending on what else is there, well Mars / Pluto demands to have their urges satisfied, NO matter the cost (or if the other person might not be as inclined).

Actually I`ve seen it referenced to as the rape-midpoint or rape-aspect.
However on its own I wouldn`t think of it like that. I would make a mental note though if it comes along with highly charged love midpoints (Sun/Venus, 'Venus/Mars, Venus/Pluto, Moon/Mars, Moon/Venus etc.), and definitely would note it if the midpoint also coincided with a T-square or something like that innvolving Mars and Pluto.

Also, to really become "risky" I would expect to see Uranus in the play, Mars/Uranus especially,b ut could also be Sun/Uranus or even Moon/Uranus, because Uranus tends to make people act impulsively, like some electric input is being given and they just respond, harldy knowing why or how.

If the response is triggered by Moon/Venus or Sun/Venus (without other potentially volatile things) then it might simply be love at first sight.
Like always it depends... But I still love midpoints, nad I like the Mars/Pluto mp as a matter of fact. In my chart it is on 7 sCorpio btw.

posted June 06, 2014 08:54 AM            

For me one of the hot midpoint-spots is 25-26 Capricorn, as it gathers Jupiter/Neptune, Jupiter/Node and Moon/Venus (jupiter-Neptune/NN are squrae, Moon-Venus is novile, so the Neptunian/Jupiter one might be more acute, with the semisquares to its midpoint).

While Jupiter/Neptune and Jupiter/Node might not sound as romantic, I believe the fact that it is clumped together with Moon/Venus makes it so. the Moon/Venus one adding the feeling-stuff, affection, caring, tenderness, also my projection as a woman, and the Jupiter ones add a lot of idealism, romanticism, maybe confusion or dreaminess, but also a feeling of meaning to the whole.

As for the other, well I have a Venus-Pluto-square.

Not a 2nd or 4th harmonic aspect. But my Mars-Neptune conjunction has its midpoint exactly on my ASC.

posted June 06, 2014 09:19 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by LeeLoo2014:
Again?? wow...I must do our synastry

BTW, I saw your midpoint post in the "Supernatural" thread and I think it deserves a thread or maybe we can discuss it here, if you want.

---

Yay, if you dont mind me running midpointcrazy on here, I am all

posted June 06, 2014 09:23 AM            

here is something from the Internet:

Su/Mo - The inner marriage of yin & yang. At-oneness with self.

Su/MC - The perceived goal or object of life. Individuality. Father image.

Mo/MC - How one nurtures oneself and the world. Mother image.

ASC/MC - Expressing our image very powerfully in the world.

Su/ASC - Sense of self confidence and creativity.

Ve/Ma - Passion, sexual drive. Desire. "Carnal juices".

Su/Ma - Essence of masculinity. Action, aggressiveness. "Ideal man"

Mo/Ve - Essence of femininity. Devotion, tenderness, gentleness. "Ideal woman"

Ve/MC - "The Romantic Ideal." Very strong attraction.

Ve/Vx - Compulsive, powerful feelings of physical attraction.

Pl/Vx - A deeply transformative/destructive, obsessive encounter. Possible cruelty, or emotional manipulation. Karmic.

Node/Vx - Similar to the above, but without the manipulative element. A feeling of having known each other before. Inescapable associations. Fateful unions.

Eros/Psyche: Desire to merge, sexual energy is intense, deep and emotive. Transformation whether taboo or not."

posted June 06, 2014 09:35 AM            

Found these (actually they are quite few and suprisingly "unpersonal" as neither luminaries nor angles make these connections; as it is mostly outers it is like it is his karmic mission to become a catalyst for me, and most of the midpoint-love-connection really rests on his Venus).

his Pluto = my Sun/Moon
his Venus = my Moon/Venus
his Uranus = my Venus/Pluto
his mean Node = my Venus/Uranus
his Neptune = my Venus/Mars
his Neptune = my Venus/ASC

Pluto rules his 8th house
Venus rules his intercepted 7th house
Uranus his 12th house
Neptune is his chartruler (so this might actually be quite personal after all. lol)

As I like reading juicy interpretations I copy these ones here:

PLUTO TO MIDPOINT SUN/MOON
Sweeping changes in partnership, reassessment of old premises,
dramatic upsets in the balance of forces,intensity, passion, no compromise, feeling overpowered, crisis and newbegin, cathartic, fated relationship

VENUS TO MIDPOINT MOON/VENUS
love, affection, tenderness, birth

URANUS TO MIDPOINT VENUS/PLUTO
Love at first sight, fanatic love. Experiences off-the-beaten-track.

NODE TO MIDPOINT VENUS/URANUS
Intense feelings seek out the same in others.
sensual intense connection; to fall in love suddenly; sudden unexpected loveaffair; love of art

NEPTUNE TO MIDPOINT VENUS/MARS
Spiritual bonds. Revelling in the desire; self-sacrifice to another
or being taken advantage of. Disappointment in sex relationship.
erotic fantasy; being easily tempted and seuced. unfulfilled longing.

NEPTUNE TO MIDPOINT VENUS/ASC
sadness about romantic loss; romantic dreams; being easily influenced and maipulated; love delusions

lol

Not much to add to this, right?

though the interpretations are actually for natal and progressed placements, if you find them in one chart.

Here the balance might be a bit different.

His Neptune triggers my Venus/Mars-mpd is a little different than as if I woul have Venus/mars/NEptune in triple aspect. Still approximately it would make sense I suppose.

He confuses my libido?

posted June 06, 2014 09:36 AM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Orange:
Im crazy about midpoints..
don't forget the angle midpoints, mostly the ones with MC. Uranian astrologers ( who are the biggest on midpoints) consider the MC as the most important point in a chart.
Venus/MC, Pluto/MC and ASC/MC seem to be important in syanstry and natal, as well as any midpoint involving Venus.

here is something from the Internet:

Su/Mo - The inner marriage of yin & yang. At-oneness with self.

Su/MC - The perceived goal or object of life. Individuality. Father image.

Mo/MC - How one nurtures oneself and the world. Mother image.

ASC/MC - Expressing our image very powerfully in the world.

Su/ASC - Sense of self confidence and creativity.

Ve/Ma - Passion, sexual drive. Desire. "Carnal juices".

Su/Ma - Essence of masculinity. Action, aggressiveness. "Ideal man"

Mo/Ve - Essence of femininity. Devotion, tenderness, gentleness. "Ideal woman"

Ve/MC - "The Romantic Ideal." Very strong attraction.

Ve/Vx - Compulsive, powerful feelings of physical attraction.

Pl/Vx - A deeply transformative/destructive, obsessive encounter. Possible cruelty, or emotional manipulation. Karmic.

Node/Vx - Similar to the above, but without the manipulative element. A feeling of having known each other before. Inescapable associations. Fateful unions.

Eros/Psyche: Desire to merge, sexual energy is intense, deep and emotive. Transformation whether taboo or not."

---

Yes, you are TOTALLY right. And I love this list. How did I forget it?

posted June 06, 2014 09:54 AM            

his Mars= my Moon/MC
his Jupiter = my Moon/MC

posted June 06, 2014 09:56 AM            

Though I spotted we have some interesting midpoints in our synastry, too.
Did I spot a Moon/Neptune to Sun with us? Would make sense, wouldn´t it?

posted June 06, 2014 10:05 AM            

Sun/Venus
attraction, appreciation, “in love”

Sun/Jupiter
generosity, genuine liking, friendship, support

Moon/Mars
emotional excitement, passion or anger, heated emotions

Moon/Jupiter
feelings of warmth and benevolence, protectiveness, support

Moon/Pluto
emotional compulsion and intensity, emotionally overpowered,

Venus/Jupiter
romantic sparks, genuine liking, supportive and playful

Venus/Uranus
sudden attraction, falling in love unexpectedly, an affair

Venus/Neptune
dreams of love, fantasies, delusions, but also feeling as if having met one`s soulmate

Venus/Pluto
compulsive passionate intense love feelings, posessiveness, jealousy
Being hypnotized by someone, feeling as if under a "spell"

Mars/Pluto
passions can run wild and become destructive, acting like being possessed, in the positive steaming hot and profound, can lead to cathartic changes

posted June 06, 2014 10:29 AM            

my Sun=
his Venus/Uranus = his Pluto/Node= his Sun/Moon

my Moon =
his Venus/Jupiter = his Venus/Mars

my ASC=
his Venus/Pluto

my Pluto=
his Venus/Neptune

my Neptune=
his Venus/Pluto

my Node=
his Venus7Pluto

SUN TO MIDPOINT PLUTO/NODE
intense pull; fated connection

SUN TO MIDPOINT VENUS/URANUS
Love adventures; ready-to-go; quickly aroused. suddenl unexpected sensuality

MERCURY TO MIDPOINT VENUS/URANUS
The ability to give stimulating ideas, particularly artistic ideas, to
other people. The sudden emergence of love-thoughts.

SUN TO MIDPOINT SUN/MOON
desire to establish partnership.

MOON TO MIDPOINT VENUS/JUPITER
A good-natured disposition, affectionate and cordial manner, charm.
joy of love

MOON TO MIDPOINT VENUS/MARS
Strong emotional impulses, an early desire for marriage and procreation. Fulfilment
through the arts. sexual desire

ASC TO MIDPOINT VENUS/PLUTO
Fascination and attraction. intense magnetism

PLUTO TO MIDPOINT VENUS/NEPTUNE
Extremely emotional; strong longing in love without necessarily attaining
fulfilment; a tragic love, a painful renunciation; sexual needs pack a primal
punch. being easily tempted and seduced

posted June 06, 2014 11:30 AM            

The midpoints with the moste xact orb will be most prominent, but all will be felt to a certain degree if within 1.5 degree. Still. check and see which midpoints are at the exact 0.00 degree orb, or 0.01.

My most exacts are
my Venus/Node= his Pluto (0.01 orb)
my ASC conjunct his Sun/Venus ( 0.00 orb )
my Node conjunct his Sun/Venus ( 0.01)
my Venus = his Pluto/MC (0.00)
my South Node/Vertex conjuncts his Venus (0.01)

here is what Cosmitec website says about Nodes love midpoints:

•you need to take a look at the Moon's Node and the midpoints and planetary pictures in which it is involved.

The Moon's Node represents bonds and connections. It shows what connects you (this can be a person or a possession or...) and is of importance in matters of love.

For example:
the Moon/Moon's Node midpoint may tell something about your bond (Moon's Node) with a woman (Moon) -- going from a sister, to the mother, to a girlfriend, etc. while the Sun/Moon's Node midpoint may represent the bond (Moon's Node) with a man (Sun) -- going from the father, a brother, a son, a male co-worker etc.

No wonder that the Venus/Moon's Node midpoint represents a "love (Venus) bond (Moon's Node)" or "love tie."

posted June 06, 2014 11:47 AM            

Given that one person's planets could be aspecting the other's planets in a variety of ways, which could indicate any of the qualities listed above, or which combine to give any of those qualities, why then would there be a need for aspects to midpoints?

posted June 06, 2014 12:09 PM            

Yes, I am sometimes unsure about the 1°00-1°30 range, but I do think it is felt.
And the very very close one, definitely.

I do not always agree with Cosmitec with everything, but their essays on the midpoints is very read-while. Can I say that?

I don`t have such an exact midpoint in my natal.

my closest natal midpoint, as I might have mentioned already, is Moon square Mercury/Pluto with 0.02. Still very close.

Mr Sag has even closer ones in his chart:

Venus square Neptune/Node 0.00
Jupiter square Sun/Uranus 0.01

The Jupiter=Sun/Uranus seems to be very much like him, always the joker, but sometimes it can get a little exhausting. Not sure what to make of the Venus=Neptune/Node, that looks like there is a bit of confusion and fantasy going on when it comes to romantic relationships.

"My most exacts are
my Venus/Node= his Pluto (0.01 orb)
my ASC conjunct his Sun/Venus ( 0.00 orb )
my Node conjunct his Sun/Venus ( 0.01)
my Venus = his Pluto/MC (0.00)
my South Node/Vertex conjuncts his Venus (0.01)"
Those are a LOT of really precise midpoints! And I ADORE what midpoints are being triggered, An intensely passionate deeply commited romantic relationship,t hat is somehow fated or destined. With his Sun/Venus-triggered by your ASC-Node, he must be very strongly attracted to you and simply be in love with you. It is so beautiful.

In the synastry with Mr Sag we do not have that many pictures, but this stuck out (I know I used Eros, Psyche, Lilith and Priapus, too):

my Moon conjunct his Venus/Eros 0.01

my Pluto conjunct his Saturn/Pluto 0.01
(OMINOUS. lol)

my Node conjunct his Sun/Uranus 0.01

Interestingly none of his planets aspect my midpoints THAT closely.

"•you need to take a look at the Moon's Node and the midpoints and planetary pictures in which it is involved."
I agree with this. The Nodes are vital in making connections and bonds.

as for our Nodes-Midpoints:

his Venus conjunct my Jupiter/Node 0°14

his Eros square my Mars/Node 0°40
his Eros squrae my Node / ASC 0°16
his Mercury square my Node/ASC 0°47

his Mercury conjunct my Neptune/Node 0°40
his Mars square my Neptune/Node 1°02
his Jupiter square my Neptune/Node 0°06

his Moon square my Saturn/Node 0°05
his Vx conj. my Saturn /Node 0°04
his MC square my Saturn/Node 0°16

--------------------------

my Uranus conjunct his Moon/Node 1°20

my Mars opposite his Eros/Node 0°18
my Mars square his Jupiter/Node 0°36
my ASC square his Jupiter/Node1°15

my Mars suqare his Mars/node 1°04
My ASC square his Mars/Node 0°47

my Sun square his Pluto/Node 0°27
my Mercury square his Pluto/Node 1°20

plus

My Node=
his Venus/Pluto 1°30
his Lilith/Priapus 0°07
his Jupiter 0°00
his Sun/Uranus 0°01
his Mars/Jupiter 0°28
his Uranus/MC 0°41
his Moon/Uranus 0°52

posted June 06, 2014 12:13 PM            

I'll first continue my 4th harmonic idea, then dive into your great suggestions, checking midpoints to Nodes, Vertices, angles etc. and listing the exact midpoint aspects.

First (and I think I have to edit this in the OP) close conjunctions, conjunction midpoints and conjunction stellium midpoints - the 1st harmonic - also are susceptible of bringing several planets on the other's midpoint, with a strong impact.

So we're talking 1st, 2nd and 4th harmonics here.

To get back to my example, I have two major crosses in my natal that involve love planets.

One is a mutable Grand Cross between Venus(6.21 Virgo) Neptune (7 Sag) Eros (5.30 Gemini) and a Pisces stellium (Ceres 5, Pholus 8, Juno 10, Jupiter 11). The stellium's midpoint is at 6 Pisces, my Venus degree.

The other is a fixed Grand Cross between Moon (14.43 Leo) Lilith (13.47 Aqua) and IC/MC 16.44

Which means that when my Venus and my Moon aspect someone's midpoint, they would bring more or less the whole cross on their midpoint (with the exception of Jupiter and MC/IC being wider in orb, but of course, the midpoint could actually fall closer to Jupiter or closer to IC/MC).

In his natal chart, he has one almost exact mutable Grand Cross between ASC/DSC 28 Virgo and MC/IC 27.57 Gem with Saturn exactly on MC, at 27.56. His NN is also there, at 24 Sag, but I'll exclude it from the cross and look at it separately.

So I think it is reasonable to say that if one of his angles or his Saturn aspect one of my midpoints, it will probably have a major impact on me, because it will bring all his angles and Saturn on my midpoint.

He also has a Mars (7 Gem) Neptune (9 Sag) opposition, so whenever he brings his Mars to me, he will also bring his Neptune, more likely.

These are the midpoints we aspect for each other with these crosses and his opposition:
(with planets, with points and love asteroids is another interesting story)

My Venus (Cross with Neptune, Jupiter/Ceres/Pholus/Juno and Eros) to his midpoints

Ven.-Plu.:SAG. 6°47'
Moo.-Sat.:VIR. 7°14'
Mar.-Nep.:PIS. 8°31' (Neptune closer)
Sun -Mer.:PIS. 9°37'(stellium closer)
Sun -Jup.:PIS.11°22' ( with Jupiter/Juno)

My Moon (Cross with Lilith/MC/IC) to his midpoints

Mer.-Ven.:AQU.17°37'
Mar.-Ura.:LEO 17°16'
Mar.-Chi.:TAU.13°05'
Sat.-Plu.:LEO 16°55'(squared by his Moon)

His Angle/Saturn cross to my midpoints

Sun -Mer.:LIB. 0°48'
Ven.-Ura.:LIB. 1°06'
Sun -Plu.:VIR.28°14'
Mer.-Jup.:SAG.26°33'
Ven.-Chi.:GEM.29°57'
Sun -Mar.:VIR.25°27' (closer to NN)

(my Mars/Union is at 0 Libra, BTW)

BTW, his Mars Neptune makes an exact square to his Alma/Pholus 7 Pisces: also, it is integrated in my own Venus Cross

His Mars/Neptune/Alma/Pholus to my midpoints

Moo.-Mar.:VIR. 7°37'
Sun -BMoo:SAG. 7°05'
Moo.-Plu.:VIR.10°23' (closer to Neptune)
Ven.-Jup.:GEM. 9°07' (closer to Neptune

posted June 06, 2014 12:15 PM            

The midpoint between any two planets represent the point where the two energies merge, their power spot, that is where this specific energy is the most focused, like a laser beam. Usually all of that lies dormant.

But if someone comes along and puts a planet (or a transit happens) onto that midpoint, it is suddenly illuminated, like someone pointing a flashpoint to that, and it is activated in the midpoint person. Generally speaking the midpoints are "as if conjoined".

However most probably it will make a difference if the two planets are already in aspect (which would be the greatest impact) or what kind of aspectual relation exists.

The strongest kind of midpoint activation, like Leeloo said, might happen with the T-square or Grand Cross, because the 4th harmonic aspects are the most dynamic of all. That is also the reason why only the 4th harmonic aspects are used for midpoint-activation. You need something to really give it a "push" to become active and manifesting. trines and sextiles are too nice and gentle for accomplishing that.

posted June 06, 2014 12:54 PM            

My ASC/DSC/Saturn/Alma - his midpoints

Sun -Moo.:CAP.19°06'
Ven.-Sat.:ARI.17°51'(his Chiron)
Mar.-Jup.:ARI.19°13'
Mer.-Nep.:CAP.18°34'

My Mercury

Sun -Ura.:CAP. 9°25'

My Mars

Sun -Plu.:SAG.28°47'(his IC there)

My Pluto

Ven.-Mar.:ARI. 7°35'(his Cupido)
Sun -Chi.:ARI. 5°14'(his Cupido)
Mar.-BMoo:ARI. 6°27' (his Cupido) Moo.-Jup.:CAP. 8°44'
Ven.-Nep.:CAP. 8°40'

His planets/my midpoints

His Sun

Moo.-Ura.:VIR.20°17' (my Sun) his Sun
Mer.-Ven.:VIR.23°48' his Sun
Ven.-Mar.:VIR.18°26'(my Sun) his Sun
Ven.-Plu.:VIR.21°13'(my Sun) his Sun
Mar.-Jup.:SAG.21°11'(my Sun) his Sun

His Moon

Ven.-ASC.:SCO.12°49'(my Vesta)

His Mercury

Moo.-Ven.:LEO 25°32'
Moo.-Jup.:TAU.28°17'
Mer.-Sat.:LEO 29°04

His Venus

Mer.-Nep.:SCO. 9°08'(my Vesta)

His Pluto

Sun -Chi.:CAN. 6°58'
Mer.-Mar.:LIB. 5°52'

And his Jupiter on my Sun/Moon midpoint (1.50)

posted June 06, 2014 01:06 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Astro keen:
Could someone please clarify -

Given that one person's planets could be aspecting the other's planets in a variety of ways, which could indicate any of the qualities listed above, or which combine to give any of those qualities, why then would there be a need for aspects to midpoints?

Do aspects to midpoints provide information which can't be demonstrated by the planetary aspects? If so, how would they differ?

---

I think the planets-to-midpoints aspects actually concur with the rest of the aspects, it's another level of that underlying tapestry in the synastry.

I think it is also interesting that midpoints are personalized in a chart, some of them are more important in terms of spiritual evolution or love, on a case by case basis. People activating those will have a major impact.

Or sometimes, some midpoints are superposed on others in a natal chart, so that point becomes another very sensitive spot.

In my case, for instance, I have at least three (major) midpoints at 20/21 Virgo: Moon/Uranus (my quintile), Venus/Mars and Venus/Pluto (my semisextile/parallel). Luckily for me, I have my Sun there, at 20 Virgo, so I can't say that I need someone to integrate all that, but if that point were blank and someone came and put something there...youhooo!!! I would have probably been completely addicted and enthralled by that person, because no one else could have integrated all that energy better for me.

I guess that's another interesting thing to look for: which one of your midpoints superpose?

posted June 06, 2014 01:11 PM            

quote:

---

Originally posted by Ceridwen:
BTW I have a Venus-Pluto-square natally. No oppositions.

For me one of the hot midpoint-spots is 25-26 Capricorn, as it gathers Jupiter/Neptune, Jupiter/Node and Moon/Venus (jupiter-Neptune/NN are squrae, Moon-Venus is novile, so the Neptunian/Jupiter one might be more acute, with the semisquares to its midpoint).

While Jupiter/Neptune and Jupiter/Node might not sound as romantic, I believe the fact that it is clumped together with Moon/Venus makes it so. the Moon/Venus one adding the feeling-stuff, affection, caring, tenderness, also my projection as a woman, and the Jupiter ones add a lot of idealism, romanticism, maybe confusion or dreaminess, but also a feeling of meaning to the whole.

As for the other, well I have a Venus-Pluto-square.

Not a 2nd or 4th harmonic aspect. But my Mars-Neptune conjunction has its midpoint exactly on my ASC.

---